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polySurfacepolySurface Posts: 78Member Uncommon

Familiar scenario

Amateurs! Someone needs to gift this guy a copy of Game Dev Tycoon so he stops playing with real people’s money.

Feydikan sums up Divergence Online development.
"OMG working so hard..pant pant... need sleep... pant pant.... and money... pant pant....keep faith"

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Comments

  • FradenFraden Columbia, SCPosts: 53Member Uncommon

    Hardly think it's fair to call them amateurs for a feature an "MMO Engine" should supply. Not to mention the Engine maker did say he was going to supply it. He said he would give free updates to any purchasers of the EE 1.0, then stated that he was done with the 1.0 a few months later and he would now put all the new stuff into 2.0 and no updates have come thus far for the previous engine.

     

    To top it off he then made it per seat charge. So try and look at it from both sides before throwing mud around like you usually do.

     

    Of all the people here against Divergence, you are the only one I have seen that consistently puts up one-sided arguments.

     

    Is this suspicious? Yea a bit. However he put a deadline on it, one month. Plus one more to get graphics back to where they were but before that combat. What you've asked for. Stop trying to start drama, I think everyone here is plenty tired of it.

    (It sucks you dont wanna see it)

  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 1,221Member Uncommon
    So what’s wrong with EE? Best thing in EE is getting to the data stream and modifying The world data directly. Of course I did say awhile back that EE would blow when it comes to the network infrastructure due to the lack of database interfacing which would cost a couple years of development time to implement.
     

    OK so what engine are you going to now?

     

    I don’t think you can handle BWT, HE is not going to do what those two engines can as far as easy implementation of a massive editable world and the coding of a editable world with BWT will require a $500,000 purchase. HE can do it but you will have to write the thing from scratch which may take a year or five.
     
    Unity will be like EE when it comes to the ‘M’ of MMO and the data infrastructure will eat a lot of development time.
     
    I think you guys need to stick with the current engine, bite the bullet and start writing serious code.
     
    You’re going nowhere fast here

     

     

  • FradenFraden Columbia, SCPosts: 53Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ArChWind
    So what’s wrong with EE? Best thing in EE is getting to the data stream and modifying The world data directly. Of course I did say awhile back that EE would blow when it comes to the network infrastructure due to the lack of database interfacing which would cost a couple years of development time to implement.   OK so what engine are you going to now?   I don’t think you can handle BWT, HE is not going to do what those two engines can as far as easy implementation of a massive editable world and the coding of a editable world with BWT will require a $500,000 purchase. HE can do it but you will have to write the thing from scratch which may take a year or five.   Unity will be like EE when it comes to the ‘M’ of MMO and the data infrastructure will eat a lot of development time.   I think you guys need to stick with the current engine, bite the bullet and start writing serious code.   You’re going nowhere fast here    

    I'm not a developer in the project, but I can tell you this.

     

    Before they didn't have serious coders, the blog post says that and Ethan said it MANY times during each campaign. They now have 3 real programmers and a lead, which all the current progress was made with none of that. 

     

    They also have a business backing them, obviously no specifics were given (I doubt they are allowed to this early in).

     

    Best bet, wait another month, see what they say, if it's a bad answer for you then who cares anyone is free to stop following this project. I agree it seems like they are hitting a wall by switching, but at the same time there is a big chance that with a business behind them they have the money to buy an engine worth using for a true MMO. Let's see where it goes.

     

    From what I understand EE did not support AO as well as numerous other features, not even 2.0. Keep in mind these were features promised to be implemented (from what I've read) and were not brought in. So instead of spending loads of money per seat on an engine that hasn't brought what they needed, I see it a smart move to take all current assets and code to a new engine this early in the process.

     

    My breaking point would most likely be December, if I don't see combat by then I'm out.

    (It sucks you dont wanna see it)

  • xenomonk123xenomonk123 burleson, TXPosts: 15Member
    Originally posted by polySurface
    Familiar scenario Amateurs! Someone needs to gift this guy a copy of Game Dev Tycoon so he stops playing with real people’s money.

    Amen brother. The developer of this game is a clown shoe, first time I log in I see the picture of beiber getting pounded in his butt by ray j I knew the game was destined for failure. What a waste of time and money... Next!

  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 1,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fraden
    Originally posted by ArChWind
    So what’s wrong with EE? Best thing in EE is getting to the data stream and modifying The world data directly. Of course I did say awhile back that EE would blow when it comes to the network infrastructure due to the lack of database interfacing which would cost a couple years of development time to implement.   OK so what engine are you going to now?   I don’t think you can handle BWT, HE is not going to do what those two engines can as far as easy implementation of a massive editable world and the coding of a editable world with BWT will require a $500,000 purchase. HE can do it but you will have to write the thing from scratch which may take a year or five.   Unity will be like EE when it comes to the ‘M’ of MMO and the data infrastructure will eat a lot of development time.   I think you guys need to stick with the current engine, bite the bullet and start writing serious code.   You’re going nowhere fast here    

    I'm not a developer in the project, but I can tell you this.

     

    Before they didn't have serious coders, the blog post says that and Ethan said it MANY times during each campaign. They now have 3 real programmers and a lead, which all the current progress was made with none of that. 

     

    They also have a business backing them, obviously no specifics were given (I doubt they are allowed to this early in).

     

    Best bet, wait another month, see what they say, if it's a bad answer for you then who cares anyone is free to stop following this project. I agree it seems like they are hitting a wall by switching, but at the same time there is a big chance that with a business behind them they have the money to buy an engine worth using for a true MMO. Let's see where it goes.

     

    From what I understand EE did not support AO as well as numerous other features, not even 2.0. Keep in mind these were features promised to be implemented (from what I've read) and were not brought in. So instead of spending loads of money per seat on an engine that hasn't brought what they needed, I see it a smart move to take all current assets and code to a new engine this early in the process.

     

    My breaking point would most likely be December, if I don't see combat by then I'm out.

    If they have three coders then it be silly to switch engines because EE is C++ and you can do a mountain of stuff with it. A lot more than any other engine because of the pipeline for assets. It is better than Crystalspace or Softpixel by a long shot.
     
     
    I’m following the project from the standpoint that I asked my team to jump on it instead of messing with a lost cause I was working on. I don’t know if any of them went off to this or not but switching engines over and over is going to kill it. Take it from a failure of a project that switching engines is asking for trouble with a capital T!
     
    If they are having problems with EE other than network and database than they will have even more problems with anything else.
     
    well Ryzom engine has everything coded in it from crafting to combat. Just plug in your game and go so maybe that would be a best answer here.

     

     

  • polySurfacepolySurface Posts: 78Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fraden
    Hardly think it's fair to call them amateurs for a feature an "MMO Engine" should supply. Not to mention the Engine maker did say he was going to supply it. He said he would give free updates to any purchasers of the EE 1.0, then stated that he was done with the 1.0 a few months later and he would now put all the new stuff into 2.0 and no updates have come thus far for the previous engine. To top it off he then made it per seat charge. So try and look at it from both sides before throwing mud around like you usually do.

     

    I think amateurs is quite fitting here, you don’t purchase an “MMO Engine” you license an engine to fast track bread and butter features so you can focus on the meat and potatoes.

    I’ve heard all the same excuses with the previous engine as well and that had full source code provided.  Divergence Online are good at blaming their shortcomings on their engine of choice.

    As for $200 a seat the mind boggles.

    Feydikan sums up Divergence Online development.
    "OMG working so hard..pant pant... need sleep... pant pant.... and money... pant pant....keep faith"

  • LivnthedreamLivnthedream Salt Lake City, UTPosts: 555Member
    5th Engine in 8 years. Yep, makes perfect sense!
  • wowclonezwowclonez Scripps Ranch, CAPosts: 74Member
    The lead dev is very inexperienced. This is like his 4th or 5th engine. He just isn't capable and living a dream. No one sticks around on the project because the guy is an ass hat. This game will never happen, it's been 10 years almost and he is starting over ...AGAIN. Look at a game like The Repopulation, the game keeps getting better and better, they have gameplay video of an actual MMO. You don't see those guy constantly switching engines, they are a small indie too.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare
    Originally posted by Fraden Is this suspicious? Yea a bit. However he put a deadline on it, one month. Plus one more to get graphics back to where they were but before that combat. What you've asked for. Stop trying to start drama, I think everyone here is plenty tired of it.

    It's not suspicious, it's expected. He will blame everything other than his own limitations every step of the way, but there are enough people that buy into the Big Ideas that he can probably do a few more 'crowd funding' campaigns before evenhis most die-hard followers figure it out. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 1,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wowclonez
    The lead dev is very inexperienced. This is like his 4th or 5th engine. He just isn't capable and living a dream. No one sticks around on the project because the guy is an ass hat. This game will never happen, it's been 10 years almost and he is starting over ...AGAIN. Look at a game like The Repopulation, the game keeps getting better and better, they have gameplay video of an actual MMO. You don't see those guy constantly switching engines, they are a small indie too.
    Repop switched engines 4 times before finding what would work for them. Of course there is a difference here but the thing with this one is not just switching engines. Repop has the team part which others lack and the willingness to spend 15 years to get there.
  • wowclonezwowclonez Scripps Ranch, CAPosts: 74Member
    Originally posted by ArChWind
    Originally posted by wowclonez
    The lead dev is very inexperienced. This is like his 4th or 5th engine. He just isn't capable and living a dream. No one sticks around on the project because the guy is an ass hat. This game will never happen, it's been 10 years almost and he is starting over ...AGAIN. Look at a game like The Repopulation, the game keeps getting better and better, they have gameplay video of an actual MMO. You don't see those guy constantly switching engines, they are a small indie too.
    Repop switched engines 4 times before finding what would work for them. Of course there is a difference here but the thing with this one is not just switching engines. Repop has the team part which others lack and the willingness to spend 15 years to get there.

    They may have, who knows, but not with peoples Kickstarter and Indiegogo money :) .

  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 1,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by wowclonez
    Originally posted by ArChWind
    Originally posted by wowclonez
    The lead dev is very inexperienced. This is like his 4th or 5th engine. He just isn't capable and living a dream. No one sticks around on the project because the guy is an ass hat. This game will never happen, it's been 10 years almost and he is starting over ...AGAIN. Look at a game like The Repopulation, the game keeps getting better and better, they have gameplay video of an actual MMO. You don't see those guy constantly switching engines, they are a small indie too.
    Repop switched engines 4 times before finding what would work for them. Of course there is a difference here but the thing with this one is not just switching engines. Repop has the team part which others lack and the willingness to spend 15 years to get there.

    They may have, who knows, but not with peoples Kickstarter and Indiegogo money :) .

    no they did the right thing and found the engine first.

     

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/therepopulation/the-repopulation?ref=live

  • JC-SmithJC-Smith Chiang MaiPosts: 420Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ArChWind
    Repop switched engines 4 times before finding what would work for them. Of course there is a difference here but the thing with this one is not just switching engines. Repop has the team part which others lack and the willingness to spend 15 years to get there.

    Someone linked me to this thread and I wanted to clear up any misconceptions that people had about that.

    When The Repopulation was announced to the public via press release (mid-2011) it was already using Hero Engine, the same engine it uses today. It originally began as a smaller scale project. It originally as a proof of concept for an article and then morphed over time into a game. At that time it used the Torque engine, which was the only reasonable engine available at indie prices in those days. The game was only known to people within some game development communities (Garage Games, MMORPG Maker, MMO Workshop). In those days Repop consisted of 4 people working in their spare time as more of a hobby than anything else.

    In 2010 something weird happened though and Bigworld, Unreal and Hero Engine all become available to indies within a few months, like dominos. We had drooled over Bigworld and Hero Engine for years, but they were well out of our price range. Bigworld became available first, and we purchased it to evaluate if it was worth porting to. Doing so would have meant losing the work we had done over the past 18 months so we were split on if it was worth doing or not. We did built a prototype in a few weeks using Bigworld, and were strongly considering moving to it... when Hero Engine suddenly became available. After evaluating it we decided it was worth starting fresh and losing our Torque work, and that if we did so Hero Engine was a better fit for us over Bigworld.

    The Repopulation was never announced to the general public until mid-2011 , and it was never in full scale development prior to Hero Engine. So depending on how you look at it, it may have switched engines twice (if you count the few weeks spent evaluating Bigworld). From our internal perspective it switched engines once: from Torque to Hero Engine. But from the public's perspective it's really always been Hero Engine, as the project was unknown outside of game development communities prior to mid-2011.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko JohannesburgPosts: 5,644Member Epic
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Fraden Is this suspicious? Yea a bit. However he put a deadline on it, one month. Plus one more to get graphics back to where they were but before that combat. What you've asked for. Stop trying to start drama, I think everyone here is plenty tired of it.

    It's not suspicious, it's expected. He will blame everything other than his own limitations every step of the way, but there are enough people that buy into the Big Ideas that he can probably do a few more 'crowd funding' campaigns before evenhis most die-hard followers figure it out. 

    I gave up on this project years ago, but it's still amusing to read the latest "drama" that will once again delay the development by another few months.

    There always seems to be some problem or issue or crucial design change or some random external event that picks on this project image

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 14,247Member Rare
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Fraden Is this suspicious? Yea a bit. However he put a deadline on it, one month. Plus one more to get graphics back to where they were but before that combat. What you've asked for. Stop trying to start drama, I think everyone here is plenty tired of it.

    It's not suspicious, it's expected. He will blame everything other than his own limitations every step of the way, but there are enough people that buy into the Big Ideas that he can probably do a few more 'crowd funding' campaigns before evenhis most die-hard followers figure it out. 

    I gave up on this project years ago, but it's still amusing to read the latest "drama" that will once again delay the development by another few months.

    There always seems to be some problem or issue or crucial design change or some random external event that picks on this project image

    I'm very guilty of that, unfortunately. This project is my Big Red Button. It checks every negative box about 'indie' projects on my list, and it bothers me. I mean, I'm all for letting people do what they want with their money, so 'warning' others isn't my issue. It's that projects like this do a disservice to all the other projects out there that will struggle even more as a result of negative experiences from backing or investing in ... yeah... it just gets my dander up. I should just hit the back button whenever I see 'Divergence' in a post title. 

    image

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 1,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JC-Smith
    Originally posted by ArChWind
    Repop switched engines 4 times before finding what would work for them. Of course there is a difference here but the thing with this one is not just switching engines. Repop has the team part which others lack and the willingness to spend 15 years to get there.

    Someone linked me to this thread and I wanted to clear up any misconceptions that people had about that.

    When The Repopulation was announced to the public via press release (mid-2011) it was already using Hero Engine, the same engine it uses today. It originally began as a smaller scale project. It originally as a proof of concept for an article and then morphed over time into a game. At that time it used the Torque engine, which was the only reasonable engine available at indie prices in those days. The game was only known to people within some game development communities (Garage Games, MMORPG Maker, MMO Workshop). In those days Repop consisted of 4 people working in their spare time as more of a hobby than anything else.

    In 2010 something weird happened though and Bigworld, Unreal and Hero Engine all become available to indies within a few months, like dominos. We had drooled over Bigworld and Hero Engine for years, but they were well out of our price range. Bigworld became available first, and we purchased it to evaluate if it was worth porting to. Doing so would have meant losing the work we had done over the past 18 months so we were split on if it was worth doing or not. We did built a prototype in a few weeks using Bigworld, and were strongly considering moving to it... when Hero Engine suddenly became available. After evaluating it we decided it was worth starting fresh and losing our Torque work, and that if we did so Hero Engine was a better fit for us over Bigworld.

    The Repopulation was never announced to the general public until mid-2011 , and it was never in full scale development prior to Hero Engine. So depending on how you look at it, it may have switched engines twice (if you count the few weeks spent evaluating Bigworld). From our internal perspective it switched engines once: from Torque to Hero Engine. But from the public's perspective it's really always been Hero Engine, as the project was unknown outside of game development communities prior to mid-2011.

    I was pointing out you did it right. I thought you had used Blitz 3D before TGE. Thank the stars you didn't stick with BWT because after the engine was purchased by WOT they latterly killed it. Yeah it can still do things but the support system is dead.  Hero has everything to make a game and it is easier to work with.

     

    Anyway, you guys have the needed skills to pull it off. I just hope it pans out for you.

     

     

  • ArChWindArChWind Some Place, WIPosts: 1,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Fraden Is this suspicious? Yea a bit. However he put a deadline on it, one month. Plus one more to get graphics back to where they were but before that combat. What you've asked for. Stop trying to start drama, I think everyone here is plenty tired of it.

    It's not suspicious, it's expected. He will blame everything other than his own limitations every step of the way, but there are enough people that buy into the Big Ideas that he can probably do a few more 'crowd funding' campaigns before evenhis most die-hard followers figure it out. 

    I gave up on this project years ago, but it's still amusing to read the latest "drama" that will once again delay the development by another few months.

    There always seems to be some problem or issue or crucial design change or some random external event that picks on this project image

    I'm very guilty of that, unfortunately. This project is my Big Red Button. It checks every negative box about 'indie' projects on my list, and it bothers me. I mean, I'm all for letting people do what they want with their money, so 'warning' others isn't my issue. It's that projects like this do a disservice to all the other projects out there that will struggle even more as a result of negative experiences from backing or investing in ... yeah... it just gets my dander up. I should just hit the back button whenever I see 'Divergence' in a post title. 

    image

    Even mine long before it got off the ground. Well thankfully I saw the light and pulled the plug on it.

     

  • polySurfacepolySurface Posts: 78Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    It's that projects like this do a disservice to all the other projects out there that will struggle even more as a result of negative experiences from backing or investing in ... yeah... it just gets my dander up. I should just hit the back button whenever I see 'Divergence' in a post title. 

    image

    And yet another cash grab is imminent,  crowd funding shouldn’t allow such blatant milking.

    Feydikan sums up Divergence Online development.
    "OMG working so hard..pant pant... need sleep... pant pant.... and money... pant pant....keep faith"

  • DashiDMVDashiDMV Not Saying, QCPosts: 362Member

    Well since I don't expect us to hear from the developer until he deems us "worthy" enough to grace with his presence while asking for more money, here was the latest update from a couple days ago:

     

    Hope - For The Sissies Who Need It

    6am and I'm finally close to being able to lay my face on a soft surface for a few hours before getting back to it.

    We've had great progress which I have zero desire to jynx, so all I'm going to say is that Divergence has been officially "adopted" by our recent software switch (which i hope to fully announce at some point in the near future) and it's ambassadors have been bending over backwards for us these last two weeks. It's a long-needed breath of fresh air both for myself personally and the project.

    The goal was to make the switch while retaining the quality of architecture and graphics we had previously, but i'm pleased to announce that, now with the full pipeline open before us to all of our dark purposes and all roadblocks swept away at last, we have no exceeded previous standards. Some things will require some tweaking obviously, but overall we will no longer need to "sell" this move as an upgrade - as one can see in the image below, it is apparent to all.

    Normally being flat broke would find me in less than top spirits, but right now i'm feeling good enough about our near future that it isn't weighing me down.

    New stuff to come soon.

    -Ethan

     

    source: http://divergence-online.blogspot.com/

     

    Given the track record of this thing, make of it what you will.

     

     

  • polySurfacepolySurface Posts: 78Member Uncommon
    $CHARACTERCREATIONSYSTEM

    Feydikan sums up Divergence Online development.
    "OMG working so hard..pant pant... need sleep... pant pant.... and money... pant pant....keep faith"

  • wowclonezwowclonez Scripps Ranch, CAPosts: 74Member

    Divergenence Online's new logo:

  • polySurfacepolySurface Posts: 78Member Uncommon

    See DO have been busy buying up unity assets, surprised the in development ATAVISM online java mmo system was chosen, seems Ethan still hasn’t learnt anything in the past 8 years.  LOL

    Feydikan sums up Divergence Online development.
    "OMG working so hard..pant pant... need sleep... pant pant.... and money... pant pant....keep faith"

  • TorcipTorcip Sterling Heights, MIPosts: 669Member Uncommon

    I'll just leave this here.

    How does this not surprise me in the least bit?

  • polySurfacepolySurface Posts: 78Member Uncommon
    Crowd funded lego.

    Feydikan sums up Divergence Online development.
    "OMG working so hard..pant pant... need sleep... pant pant.... and money... pant pant....keep faith"

  • polySurfacepolySurface Posts: 78Member Uncommon
    The year is now 2066.

    Feydikan sums up Divergence Online development.
    "OMG working so hard..pant pant... need sleep... pant pant.... and money... pant pant....keep faith"

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