Originally posted by Cod_Eye These same players would never play an open world PvP game as the real players would eat them alive. Bottom line is they Suck.
Hate to break it to you kid, but players in open world PvP buy gold. They not only buy gold, but own you with items purchased with the dirty gold.
You would be absolutely appalled to learn how many people who have defeated you, actually bought gold. How many players in "open world PvP games" buy gold.
In fact, it is SO profitable in open world PvP games BECAUSE they're competitive, that within 1 day of Darkfall being opened, I had already sold $180 worth of gold to an American gold seller (non-slave, upright, but quickly out of business bc he couldnt compete with the slave-trading koreans/chinese criminals)
However, he sold so much gold, and the guilds of Darkfall bought gold- spending hundreds of dollars for it. Why? They wanted that edge in open world PvP.
I wouldn't be surprised if the "real players eating them alive" are nothing more than gold buyers, or players who are of equal power to the victim's character despite not participating in the boring grind.
If you truly think only the hardcore refuse to buy gold, you are truly unaware of the gold buying economy.
If you don't believe me, try to use basic scientific principles when thinking about the logic of equating gold buying to skill level in a open world PvP game.
Does a skilled player who is hardcore, become worse at PvP the moment he enters his credit card information, or does the magic occur the moment he hits "accept trade" in the game?
Does a unskilled player, not get better at PvP, when pracitcing PvP 18 hours a day, for 6 months, reading guides and playing in tournaments- simply because he didn't participate in PvE grind or Auction House brokering?
How does gold buying correlate to skill level in a video game? It doesn't.
I have been playing MMORPG's and hardcore roguelikes for over 17 years. I could probably wipe the floor with you in any competitive video game. Then afterwards, I would try to trade with you, and show you 10,000 gold. When you accused me of only being better bc I "cheated by buying gold", I will show you the receipt that I bought it AFTER I killed you.
Hating gold buyers by belittling them as "not true gamers" is a silly notion, with no scientific basis for the irrational correlation. While I would never ACTUALLY waste my time challenging you to any game of your choosing, I have taught the lesson to hundreds of people just like you. Typically after losing, they still refuse to believe the truth. Gold buying doesn't mean anything when it comes to being "hardcore", "open world PvP", or the type of player they are.
If you ever looked in the AH you can see that not one person can price to save their azz... One object of the same type will range different... ie, a weapon with a +3 one will start with a price of 50K the next one 100K and the next one with no brains 200K.. What is really, really strange u see people when the game first start out or open..A month later people got a crap fill of money I always wonder, how in the fk they get so much in a short period of time..This includes PAY to play games..
Originally posted by Popple What is really, really strange u see people when the game first start out or open..A month later people got a crap fill of money I always wonder, how in the fk they get so much in a short period of time..This includes PAY to play games..
Bots, people bot 24/7 in all mmorpg's. There's sites dedicated to telling people where to get the bot programs/how to use them/where to farm etc. Today's mmorpg's there's a ton of bots.
Originally posted by Cod_Eye These same players would never play an open world PvP game as the real players would eat them alive. Bottom line is they Suck.
Hate to break it to you kid, but players in open world PvP buy gold. They not only buy gold, but own you with items purchased with the dirty gold.
You would be absolutely appalled to learn how many people who have defeated you, actually bought gold. How many players in "open world PvP games" buy gold.
...
ALL types of players buy gold.
You're absolutely right, of course.
Skill has nothing to do with it.
The only requirement for buying gold is the willingness to cheat.
Originally posted by Kwaynos99 It's quite simple: Some people are glad to spend money to have fun....
In a game where the majority of players are max level, I buy gold to actually play the game. It's actually a way for me to PLAY, as opposed to NOT play. If you think that you don't need gold to PvP in MMORPG's where gear matters, you are a bit lacking in understanding of how PvP in these games work. If you think that gold doesn't help you to get to a higher level so you can actually play the game where most people are at, think again. Unless you think it's awesome to play Dark Age of Camelot from levels 1 to 50 alone the entire time, then grind your artifacts and master levels alone, to eventually be able to suck at PvP (RvR). Or if you think that buying gold doesn't help you get into PvP on EQ2's PvP server, you don't know much about the game.
Look at what you said here. If this is "your why" so be it. Understand though, a lot here doesn't make since to the non gold buying player.
It amazes me that despite the incredibly popularity of botting and buying gold, people seem to be in denial of the reality that so many people are perfectly fine with the idea, don't care either way, or actually do indeed buy gold.
Gold buyers are likened by some of the more religiously irrational gamers as "criminals", actually deserving of prison sentencing.
This thread however? Merely bait so the OP can attack gold buyers and feel good about doing it because he perceives them as legitimate "criminals".
If you notice, he completely ignored the fact I pointed out that it is not against any nation's laws to buy gold in a video game. Yet he still believes they're as every bit criminal as any other form of scoundrel.
I'd love to know where this intense hatred and irrational fear stems from. Why do people detest gold buyers so much? I know that many here will pretend to answer, but the real reasons are most likely beyond them. I wouldn't be surprised if the intense hatred stemmed from jealousy that they cannot also buy gold without breaking their moral code, or from a narrow view of morality due to stunted moral development. Maybe they just have a lot of anger, and need someone to hate. Perhaps they buy into some of the myths of the "evils of gold farmers" like fools buying into propaganda.
Heck, maybe they are truly naive enough to believe that WoW would have a perfectly balanced and fair economy if gold farmers didn't exist. Maybe it is sheer ignorance of the factors that ACTUALLY ruin the game economies, such as the discrepancy between high level player and low level player's ability to earn gold per quest, per hour, per grind session.
I'd place a few coins on the hypothesis that they are just jealous that they don't have enough money to buy gold themselves, but most of my money goes on the ignorance + social myths that naturally occur with these types of scenarios.
I will be the first to admit that in (very few) video games, gold buying is destructive to the game. I admit that in a better world, they do not exist at all. However, this is not a better world because "people stop being criminals" or "stop being so lazy" or "start earning what they get." or whatever republican-style welfare-stereotypes they want to label people with. The better world is become DEVELOPERS create games where the player has no need to buy gold. There is no boredom, no grind, and no immensely unfair distribution of wealth between veteran and newbie players. A game where it matters less how long played, and more how much effort you put into getting money.
If you disagree, ask yourself one simple question. How is someone lazy just because they buy gold? What if they bought gold using the real life currency they receive from hard manual labor, or in a job far worse than the priviledge you're currently experiencing? No offense, but I would be careful tossing around insults to gold buyers as "lazy" or "criminal", when there is a good possibility you are far more lazy, or far more immoral.
"He buys gold! What a horrible human being!"
Oh really? Is he horrible when he buys that gold for WoW playing orphans whose only dream is to PvP in a balanced game, but his account has no heirlooms and he won't live long enough to make it past Tier 1 PvP?
Is he still a horrible person, if he lives in a shack with nothing more than a computer hooked up to dial up, and the only pleasure he spends money on is buying WoW gold, while he attends to orphaned children in wartorn countries, spending his entire life savings on their betterment?
I exaggerrate a lot here and use unrealistic examples, to express the lunacy of deeming people who buy gold as immoral or "criminal". Please try and mature your moral development, to understand that buying gold is not always this horrendous evil you're making it out to be.
Yes, it can help to ruin a game, but no it does not cause it until far after the game is already ruined. It is never the major factor in ruining the game.
Yes, gold farmers who abuse prisoners or pay slave wages to abused employees are bad, but that is because of the lack of basic human rights laws and common decency among these societies. It is not evil because they're selling gold or breaking your beloved MMO. It's evil because of the same reasons every other foreign production business is evil: employee abuse and human rights violations.
Why don't you take a step down from your high horse, deeming gold buyers are criminal, and take a look at yourself? If you despise gold buyers because they support gold farmers and their immoral practices, why do you use a computer that has parts made in chinese factories who also abuse employees? Why do you have a smart phone made with the blood of exploited human beings?
Do the workers who kill themselves due to how horrid their lives are making your new iphone, deserve it because they aren't "hardcore enough to stick through the pain" like you do when you grind?
Depends on the value of the game I'm playing and the mileage I'm expecting to get out of it. With a game I truly like, I wouldn't do it. But with a game I know I'm not really vested into I might. It's funny how we all feel time is more important than money (or there wouldn't be a business for gold farmers), but is it really so simple? Sometimes money is more important than time with some folks. Let me ask:
I voted None
Because if im to die next year this would mean I...
This thread however? Merely bait so the OP can attack gold buyers and feel good about doing it because he perceives them as legitimate "criminals".
If you notice, he completely ignored the fact I pointed out that it is not against any nation's laws to buy gold in a video game. Yet he still believes they're as every bit criminal as any other form of scoundrel.
If you noticed, you call them gold FARMERS because you like to think they're in the game earning the gold you buy instead of the truth. They're mass hacking accounts and stealing the gold you're buying from other players who did earn it.
What are all these nations laws on possession of stolen goods ? I'm pretty sure " I didn't know it was stolen" doesn't make it ok.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar More likely they are just looking for entertainment and buying gold makes the game more entertaining. This is not a difficult concept.
Yeah ... basically this.
That is also why many cash shop sells gold. If it is part of the game, it is not cheating.
I'd love to know where this intense hatred and irrational fear stems from. Why do people detest gold buyers so much?
Again :
1- Buying gold from 3rd party RMT encourage hacking, botting, spamming, phising, and destroying the economy.
2- is specifically against the game rules, most of the time.
So... someone that doesnt play by the rules, to gain an "edge" against other players. Why would we hate that?
Why do we hate aimbotters so much, in FPS games? They just want that little "edge" to make them competitive, too!
So you are only against buying gold from 3rd party and think buying gold from cash shop is ok?
Buying gold from cash shop essentially invalidate your two points.
Exactly.
There is nothing wrong with a game with a built-in cash shop. The game is balanced around it. Its part of the rules. And you buying gold from the shop actually HELP the devs instead of hurting the game. Theres nothing wrong with it.
Now, a game with a built-in cash shop is probably not a game I want to play. But many people love P2win.
edit : I guess what I'm saying is : If you like buying gold, why dont you play a game designed for it (F2p with a cash shop), and stop ruining my games.
I'd love to know where this intense hatred and irrational fear stems from. Why do people detest gold buyers so much?
Again :
1- Buying gold from 3rd party RMT encourage hacking, botting, spamming, phising, and destroying the economy.
2- is specifically against the game rules, most of the time.
So... someone that doesnt play by the rules, to gain an "edge" against other players. Why would we hate that?
Why do we hate aimbotters so much, in FPS games? They just want that little "edge" to make them competitive, too!
So you are only against buying gold from 3rd party and think buying gold from cash shop is ok?
Buying gold from cash shop essentially invalidate your two points.
Exactly.
There is nothing wrong with a game with a built-in cash shop. The game is balanced around it. Its part of the rules. And you buying gold from the shop actually HELP the devs instead of hurting the game. Theres nothing wrong with it.
Now, a game with a built-in cash shop is probably not a game I want to play. But many people love P2win.
edit : I guess what I'm saying is : If you like buying gold, why dont you play a game designed for it (F2p with a cash shop), and stop ruining my games.
oh .. then we are in 100% agreement.
I do play f2P games and ignore the cashshop, but i have no problem if others are buying gold in a cashshop. In a game without, and not sanctioned by the devs, I do have a problem.
I'll try an analogy to see if I can explain a bit of the disdain for "gold buying" and "gold buyers". I hunt deer with bow and arrow. Anyone that's done that knows that it tends to involve ALOT of time sitting patiently in a tree-stand waiting for the opportunity to get a shot. You have to be very still and silent or you'll scare away the deer before they even approach. That can often be cold, uncomfortable and sometimes boring. When the deer does approach in range of the bow, you have to be very carefull about how you move the bow to get into position for the shot and how and when you draw-back or the deer will spook before you release.
Now I could pay someone to take a deer from a deer farm, drag it up in front of my stand and stake it down to the ground by a rope so that it can't runaway (there are actualy places that do pretty much that).
Would that completely cheapen and ruin the experience for me? - Absolutely.
Do I consider that "hunting" and the people who do that "real hunters" - Nope?
Do I have disdain for that as a practice - Yes.
"Gold Buying" is looked at in a bit of a similar vein to me as far as the hobby of gaming goes. Now obviously the above is a pretty extreme example and there are plenty of far less egrigious gradations .....even ones that I wouldn't really be bothered much over although I might not have as much respect for them as I do the purest form of the sport.
Same holds true for "gold buying" (although my feelings are far less extreme in that area). I generaly feel it cheapens the hobby of "gaming"......although there are ALOT of different gradations within that as to the specific details of how and what we are talking about by using the term and the environment in which it occurs that will effect the degree to which it is objectionable.
Generaly I dislike the practice in gaming and dislike associating with those who engage in it. Though again it varies a great deal in degree according to the specifics of what they are doing and in what sort of environment. Personaly I'd rather play games that didn't feature or support it at all and with gamers that didn't engage in it at all.....but I'm not going to beat someone up over examples that aren't ovrerly egreigious.
Ah, the myth that gold farmers are nothing but real life criminals who hack accounts and steal gold, abuse employees to death with whips, and are never legitimate.
Just like I predicted, ignorance seems to be the focal point for why people have so much irrational hatred for gold buyers.
They buy into the myths and propaganda that it is gold farmers, not economies designed to fail from Day 0, not the level system, not player inflation, which destroys the economy. Hatred stemming from ignorance of what ACTUALLY destroys economies, and how little an impact gold farmers actually have on the already ruined economics.
They buy into the irrational stereotype that ALL gold farmers are illegitimate criminals. ALL are chinese (some here probably don't even know there are different types of "asians", and just lump them all under one stereotype), and ALL are exploiting workers and prisoners with slave wages and long hours which result in high worker suicide rates. Ignorance that some are legitimate businesses that do not exploit their workers.
They buy into the irrational fear that gold farmers hack accounts en mass, and the primary way they get gold is hacking people's accounts. Ignorant of the reality that gold farmers who do hack accounts, do it for the max level character- not the gold, and only the most evil of hackers sell for every single penny. Ignorant of Blizzard's policy to instantly reverse and give back all money and gear after a hack, which neutralizes any harm done. Ignorant that the majority of gold farmers do NOT hack accounts, and instead farm using a much more efficient method.
Ignorant of how a vast majority of gold farming businesses rely on outsourcing gold farming AND gold selling, and merely act as a middle man between the individual gold farmer and the gold buyer. Ignorant of how the process actually works. Ignorant on how those businesses which outsource the work, which is a vast amount of them, have little to no knowledge of the evils the minority do. How can one stop that which they don't know, while keeping legitimate gold sellers safe.
Ignorant of how phishing scams and account hacking do not have such a high success rate in WoW, to accumulate any real amount of gold. Ignorant that hacked accounts are more valuable as playable, fully equipped characters, than as quick sells and closes.
Ignorance that the most successful of farmers use bots, and most of all: Ignorant on botting. How common botting is, even among normal users. How botting is far closer to cheating than the manual labor of farming or multi-box farming with macro's.
In the end, gold farmers do not make up even a sliver of why the economy is typically messed up in MMORPG's. They are not ALL illegitimate businesses. Only the more desperate or stupid people hack, and only the most evil of those idiots sell and quit instead of use the character to farm until locked out.
Even though I specifically said I do not want answers to my rhetorical question as to "Why do people hate gold buyers so much?" because I already know the answer... you all only solidified my hypothesis even further. Hatred, like most forms of irrational logic, stems from ignorance. It is no different than the racism that results from ignorance of minorities, or the hatred of "the welfare" that results from ignorance as to how the system actually works.
When you see emotionally volatile hatred for something- anything, it is probably the most rational decision to assume ignorance. Irrational hatred are prejudices and emotionally volatile insults to those stereotype and labeled incorrectly. Rational hatred being hatred of pure evils, like murder or dungeon kidnapping, in which hatred stems from it being psychopathic evil. Something reserved not for scoundrels, thieves, or lawbreakers- but for the most vicious of crimes against human life and suffering.
If you truly think gold buyers are worthy of "the true death", you should probably take a step back and reevaluate your judgements. When it comes to something as silly as buying currency in a video game, extreme hatred is most definitely going to be considered irrational hatred by all but the most looney.
I mean, calling them criminals? Get real kids. There are far worse crimes against humanity than someone buying gold and surpassing you in levels in a video game. I don't think it is very rational to label them as criminals, as if our justice system should put murders, rapes, grand theft, and spousal abuse on hold to process crimes against video game e-peens.
Ah, the myth that gold farmers are nothing but real life criminals who hack accounts and steal gold, abuse employees to death with whips, and are never legitimate.
Just like I predicted, ignorance seems to be the focal point for why people have so much irrational hatred for gold buyers.
I stopped reading here because it was getting hard to see over all your bull shit. Say whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better. Accounts are getting hack but it's not the people you buy gold from....sounds legit to me.
Ah, the myth that gold farmers are nothing but real life criminals who hack accounts and steal gold, abuse employees to death with whips, and are never legitimate.
Just like I predicted, ignorance seems to be the focal point for why people have so much irrational hatred for gold buyers.
I stopped reading here because it was getting hard to see over all your bull shit. Say whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better. Accounts are getting hack but it's not the people you buy gold from....sounds legit to me.
+1
General chat of pretty much ANY new MMO is being spammed by constant gold farmer spam.
Last I checked, my email junk folder was also full of "your XXX account will be cancelled if you dont click this link!!"
3rd party Rmt ARE stealing accounts, hacking, botting, whatever works to make them more money.
Gold buyers ARE doing stuff against the rules to gain an edge over other players.
Kwaynoss99, we understand, you love buying gold, and you'll never question the policies of 3rd party RMT as long as you get your gold. But could you point me to a legitimate gold farmer? Oh, since its against the ToS of most game, good luck with that, I guess?
Ah, the myth that gold farmers are nothing but real life criminals who hack accounts and steal gold, abuse employees to death with whips, and are never legitimate.
Just like I predicted, ignorance seems to be the focal point for why people have so much irrational hatred for gold buyers.
They buy into the myths and propaganda that it is gold farmers, not economies designed to fail from Day 0, not the level system, not player inflation, which destroys the economy. Hatred stemming from ignorance of what ACTUALLY destroys economies, and how little an impact gold farmers actually have on the already ruined economics.
FFXIV would like to have a talk with you. A month after release, some people were buying and selling items for 2x to 3x the amount of money that lvl 50 character can possibly have. Its not the devs. Its not the "fail economy". Its not player inflation (the game just released, ffs!). Its the massive inflation brought by 3rd party RMT.
Then SE stepped up and outright DELETED gold that was acquired by 3rd party rmt (would have loved to see the face of someone that bought tons of gil... log in one morning only to find that all his money was gone.) And then suddenly price were back to normal. But.. its because of the fail economy, right?
Fact is, thanks to RMT, most players werent able to purchase gear because it was too expensive, only one month after release! RMT is a vicious circle. RMT raise the prices, this encourage people to buy gold, and this raise the prices even further.
They buy into the irrational stereotype that ALL gold farmers are illegitimate criminals. ALL are chinese (some here probably don't even know there are different types of "asians", and just lump them all under one stereotype), and ALL are exploiting workers and prisoners with slave wages and long hours which result in high worker suicide rates. Ignorance that some are legitimate businesses that do not exploit their workers.
They buy into the irrational fear that gold farmers hack accounts en mass, and the primary way they get gold is hacking people's accounts. Ignorant of the reality that gold farmers who do hack accounts, do it for the max level character- not the gold, and only the most evil of hackers sell for every single penny. Ignorant of Blizzard's policy to instantly reverse and give back all money and gear after a hack, which neutralizes any harm done. Ignorant that the majority of gold farmers do NOT hack accounts, and instead farm using a much more efficient method.
Oh guys, I wasnt hacked for my gold, they were just after my characters, what a relief!! ...Are you for real?
The fact that blizzard (ONE company. There are other MMOs out there) has a pretty awesome policy on hacking is irrelevant. "Hey, I'll punch you in the face, but you can go to the hospital, so no harms done, right?". Laughable.
My friend got his account hacked, and he still lost a week of playtime because he had to wait for a complete rollback, btw. Fact is : getting your account hacked SUCKS. Period.
Ignorant of how a vast majority of gold farming businesses rely on outsourcing gold farming AND gold selling, and merely act as a middle man between the individual gold farmer and the gold buyer. Ignorant of how the process actually works. Ignorant on how those businesses which outsource the work, which is a vast amount of them, have little to no knowledge of the evils the minority do. How can one stop that which they don't know, while keeping legitimate gold sellers safe.
They must live under a rock if they have "no knowledge" of the evils the so-called minority do. I'd hire a PR manager if I had a legitimate gold selling business going on. I'd also hire a PR manager if I had a legitimate drug selling business going on, just sayin.
Ignorant of how phishing scams and account hacking do not have such a high success rate in WoW, to accumulate any real amount of gold. Ignorant that hacked accounts are more valuable as playable, fully equipped characters, than as quick sells and closes.
Oh guys, they hacked me, but they're keeping my char instead of selling it, WHAT A RELIEF. This keeps getting better...
This is supposed to make us feel good about gold farmers... how?
Ignorance that the most successful of farmers use bots, and most of all: Ignorant on botting. How common botting is, even among normal users. How botting is far closer to cheating than the manual labor of farming or multi-box farming with macro's.
Botting might be common, but this doesnt make it acceptable. What are you trying to say, here?
Botting might be "better" than hacking, but its still excess gold entering the economy. In a way, botting is worse than hacking ,because hacking is just a "transfer" of funds, while botting generates completely new ressources.
In the end, gold farmers do not make up even a sliver of why the economy is typically messed up in MMORPG's. They are not ALL illegitimate businesses. Only the more desperate or stupid people hack, and only the most evil of those idiots sell and quit instead of use the character to farm until locked out.
Even though I specifically said I do not want answers to my rhetorical question as to "Why do people hate gold buyers so much?" because I already know the answer... you all only solidified my hypothesis even further. Hatred, like most forms of irrational logic, stems from ignorance. It is no different than the racism that results from ignorance of minorities, or the hatred of "the welfare" that results from ignorance as to how the system actually works.
I dont think its hate. I dont like cheaters. I dont like gold buyers. I dont like people that use aimbots in FPS. I dont like people that use map hacks in RTS.
I knew a guy that used map hack in starcraft. He was a cool guy outside of the game, but I never wanted to play with him in a game (even in the same team). Same thing here.
John Smedley: I think the issue of farming is higher on the radar now than it ever has been. The behinds the scenes things are really frustration. A lot of these farmers are essentially stealing from us. What they do is they charge us back all the time. They use a credit card –sometimes stolen, sometimes not – to buy an account key. They use the account for a month, and then they call the credit card company and charge it back. We have suffered nearly a million dollars just in fines over the past six months; it's getting extremely expensive for us
I once bought gold for SWG back when gold farming in SWG just seemed to be just taking off...I bought a million credits which at the time, was a shit ton of credits. I bought it on ebay, and following that i started getting spam emails from assholes telling me i would be banned etc, I never was, but it scared the hell out of me. SWG was also my first MMO and I had no idea how to earn them so I bought them so I could buy shit.
I haven't bought gold from farmers since, too scared they are crimminals or that I would get a shit ton of spam. I do play plenty of games with item malls, and I figure that is simply the publishers gold farmer counter. If it is a FTP game, and I enjoy the game, I figure buying a few thing in the item mall is my way of thanking them for making a fun game...for example playing neverwinter right now, and enjoying it, so I spent $50 on zen to reward the makers for a fun game. It is about the cost of a game so I figure i am getting my money's worth.
My other hobby is mountain biking, and I just spent 6k on a bike, so pissing away a few bucks at the item mall isnt a big deal. I am fortunate to have some expendable income, but I can see where item malls, gold from farmers, etc could be addictive to try and keep up and that could really suck if you don't have the income or shouldnt be using your income on such crap. I only have expendable income because i work my ass off IRL so i have little time for grinding in games, hence why item malls and FTP games seem to be somewhat succesful, I am guessing there are enough dumbasses like me to keep them funded because we don't have the time otherwise...sorry everyone.
I am torn on the issue actually. I don't think shit bag spammers should be able to sell gold, nothing worse than having to ignore 20 people everytime you enter a zone because they are jamming up chat with spam selling gold. Neverwinter has issues with this. I am not an IT person so I do not understant why it isnt easier for a game company to filter that shit before it goes public. If there was a legit way of doing it, without the annoying spam, then fuck...free market rules, but right now it sucks due to spammers. I lament because one of them gold spamming shitbags was probably the asshole I bought credits from back in 2003, 4 or when ever it launched, I probably encouraged or enabled that douche to keep his shitty business going...sorry once again.
Cheers
Rintintin
edit: to the poster right before my original post, didn't think of that effect that crimminals, may be using stolen credits cards etc, but I don't dought it happens. One could argue it is the cost of doing business, but that sucks...I think if it was a cost that was not acceptable the industry would invest more in combating the issue...it seems to happen in other sectors, but again, I am clueless to this sort of thing...I am sure many of you know more about this issue than I.
I'd love to know where this intense hatred and irrational fear stems from. Why do people detest gold buyers so much?
Again :
1- Buying gold from 3rd party RMT encourage hacking, botting, spamming, phising, and destroying the economy.
2- is specifically against the game rules, most of the time.
So... someone that doesnt play by the rules, to gain an "edge" against other players. Why would we hate that?
Why do we hate aimbotters so much, in FPS games? They just want that little "edge" to make them competitive, too!
So you are only against buying gold from 3rd party and think buying gold from cash shop is ok?
Buying gold from cash shop essentially invalidate your two points.
Exactly.
There is nothing wrong with a game with a built-in cash shop. The game is balanced around it. Its part of the rules. And you buying gold from the shop actually HELP the devs instead of hurting the game. Theres nothing wrong with it.
Now, a game with a built-in cash shop is probably not a game I want to play. But many people love P2win.
edit : I guess what I'm saying is : If you like buying gold, why dont you play a game designed for it (F2p with a cash shop), and stop ruining my games.
oh .. then we are in 100% agreement.
I do play f2P games and ignore the cashshop, but i have no problem if others are buying gold in a cashshop. In a game without, and not sanctioned by the devs, I do have a problem.
This might be the second of third time in all of Narius' 15k posts that I agree with him
If the game company chooses to sell to gold directly then I'm fine with it. I would never play such a game but that's a different story.
On the other hand if it's against the terms of service then there's nothing a player is going to say to me that will justify buying gold from a 3rd party. It's cheating, end of story.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Ah, the myth that gold farmers are nothing but real life criminals who hack accounts and steal gold, abuse employees to death with whips, and are never legitimate.
Just like I predicted, ignorance seems to be the focal point for why people have so much irrational hatred for gold buyers.
I stopped reading here because it was getting hard to see over all your bull shit. Say whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better. Accounts are getting hack but it's not the people you buy gold from....sounds legit to me.
3rd party Rmt ARE stealing accounts, hacking, botting, whatever works to make them more money.
Assuming all gold sellers are hacking criminals is like assuming all stock traders are using insider information. There's money to be made, but not everyone is committing criminal acts to acquire the money. They aren't all performing illegal acts, but the few who do ruin the reputation for their "industry".
I'm not defending gold sellers at all. They ruin the economies of games. Gold farmers are the equivalent to Obama giving everyone in the US $1,000,000. You might be happy at first, but when you have to pay $5,000 for a hamburger you will realize the flaw in the logic of giving everyone that much money.
Ah, the myth that gold farmers are nothing but real life criminals who hack accounts and steal gold, abuse employees to death with whips, and are never legitimate.
Just like I predicted, ignorance seems to be the focal point for why people have so much irrational hatred for gold buyers.
I stopped reading here because it was getting hard to see over all your bull shit. Say whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better. Accounts are getting hack but it's not the people you buy gold from....sounds legit to me.
3rd party Rmt ARE stealing accounts, hacking, botting, whatever works to make them more money.
Assuming all gold sellers are hacking criminals is like assuming all stock traders are using insider information. There's money to be made, but not everyone is committing criminal acts to acquire the money. They aren't all performing illegal acts, but the few who do ruin the reputation for their "industry".
I'm not defending gold sellers at all. They ruin the economies of games. Gold farmers are the equivalent to Obama giving everyone in the US $1,000,000. You might be happy at first, but when you have to pay $5,000 for a hamburger you will realize the flaw in the logic of giving everyone that much money.
So many excuses, obfuscations and justifications in this thread.
It's amazing how hard some people will try to justify their own misdeeds.
If you buy gold from a 3rd party that is not authorized to sell it by the game developer, you are violating the ToS of the game.
It's wrong. You're cheating. Your account should be banned.
It's really that simple. You don't like the rules in the game ? Don't play the game.
Hypothetical question here. I have never bought nor sold gold, this is just a thought that crossed my mind after reading some of this rather large thread. Say someone plays a game like WoW for a few years and they amassed around 500k in gold. A quick google search has a result saying 100k is worth around $160. So 500k is $800.
Do you people think in a case where that gold was accrued over a period of years through honest playing would be morally acceptable to be sold? If all of that person's gold was earned by ingame rules then theoretically there should be no economic impact selling it to another player.
Not really related but the person would have spent in 4 years of playing $720 in sub fees.
Hypothetical question here. I have never bought nor sold gold, this is just a thought that crossed my mind after reading some of this rather large thread. Say someone plays a game like WoW for a few years and they amassed around 500k in gold. A quick google search has a result saying 100k is worth around $160. So 500k is $800.
Do you people think in a case where that gold was accrued over a period of years through honest playing would be morally acceptable to be sold? If all of that person's gold was earned by ingame rules then theoretically there should be no economic impact selling it to another player.
Not really related but the person would have spent in 4 years of playing $720 in sub fees.
Interesting question.
I still think that player to player trading should never involve real money. See D3 real money auction house, and how even blizzard now realize it was a bad idea. They are going to remove it.
Comments
Hate to break it to you kid, but players in open world PvP buy gold. They not only buy gold, but own you with items purchased with the dirty gold.
You would be absolutely appalled to learn how many people who have defeated you, actually bought gold. How many players in "open world PvP games" buy gold.
In fact, it is SO profitable in open world PvP games BECAUSE they're competitive, that within 1 day of Darkfall being opened, I had already sold $180 worth of gold to an American gold seller (non-slave, upright, but quickly out of business bc he couldnt compete with the slave-trading koreans/chinese criminals)
However, he sold so much gold, and the guilds of Darkfall bought gold- spending hundreds of dollars for it. Why? They wanted that edge in open world PvP.
I wouldn't be surprised if the "real players eating them alive" are nothing more than gold buyers, or players who are of equal power to the victim's character despite not participating in the boring grind.
If you truly think only the hardcore refuse to buy gold, you are truly unaware of the gold buying economy.
If you don't believe me, try to use basic scientific principles when thinking about the logic of equating gold buying to skill level in a open world PvP game.
Does a skilled player who is hardcore, become worse at PvP the moment he enters his credit card information, or does the magic occur the moment he hits "accept trade" in the game?
Does a unskilled player, not get better at PvP, when pracitcing PvP 18 hours a day, for 6 months, reading guides and playing in tournaments- simply because he didn't participate in PvE grind or Auction House brokering?
How does gold buying correlate to skill level in a video game? It doesn't.
I have been playing MMORPG's and hardcore roguelikes for over 17 years. I could probably wipe the floor with you in any competitive video game. Then afterwards, I would try to trade with you, and show you 10,000 gold. When you accused me of only being better bc I "cheated by buying gold", I will show you the receipt that I bought it AFTER I killed you.
Hating gold buyers by belittling them as "not true gamers" is a silly notion, with no scientific basis for the irrational correlation. While I would never ACTUALLY waste my time challenging you to any game of your choosing, I have taught the lesson to hundreds of people just like you. Typically after losing, they still refuse to believe the truth. Gold buying doesn't mean anything when it comes to being "hardcore", "open world PvP", or the type of player they are.
ALL types of players buy gold.
I retired retroactively..Haha
Bots, people bot 24/7 in all mmorpg's. There's sites dedicated to telling people where to get the bot programs/how to use them/where to farm etc. Today's mmorpg's there's a ton of bots.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
You're absolutely right, of course.
Skill has nothing to do with it.
The only requirement for buying gold is the willingness to cheat.
Look at what you said here. If this is "your why" so be it. Understand though, a lot here doesn't make since to the non gold buying player.
It amazes me that despite the incredibly popularity of botting and buying gold, people seem to be in denial of the reality that so many people are perfectly fine with the idea, don't care either way, or actually do indeed buy gold.
Gold buyers are likened by some of the more religiously irrational gamers as "criminals", actually deserving of prison sentencing.
This thread however? Merely bait so the OP can attack gold buyers and feel good about doing it because he perceives them as legitimate "criminals".
If you notice, he completely ignored the fact I pointed out that it is not against any nation's laws to buy gold in a video game. Yet he still believes they're as every bit criminal as any other form of scoundrel.
I'd love to know where this intense hatred and irrational fear stems from. Why do people detest gold buyers so much? I know that many here will pretend to answer, but the real reasons are most likely beyond them. I wouldn't be surprised if the intense hatred stemmed from jealousy that they cannot also buy gold without breaking their moral code, or from a narrow view of morality due to stunted moral development. Maybe they just have a lot of anger, and need someone to hate. Perhaps they buy into some of the myths of the "evils of gold farmers" like fools buying into propaganda.
Heck, maybe they are truly naive enough to believe that WoW would have a perfectly balanced and fair economy if gold farmers didn't exist. Maybe it is sheer ignorance of the factors that ACTUALLY ruin the game economies, such as the discrepancy between high level player and low level player's ability to earn gold per quest, per hour, per grind session.
I'd place a few coins on the hypothesis that they are just jealous that they don't have enough money to buy gold themselves, but most of my money goes on the ignorance + social myths that naturally occur with these types of scenarios.
I will be the first to admit that in (very few) video games, gold buying is destructive to the game. I admit that in a better world, they do not exist at all. However, this is not a better world because "people stop being criminals" or "stop being so lazy" or "start earning what they get." or whatever republican-style welfare-stereotypes they want to label people with. The better world is become DEVELOPERS create games where the player has no need to buy gold. There is no boredom, no grind, and no immensely unfair distribution of wealth between veteran and newbie players. A game where it matters less how long played, and more how much effort you put into getting money.
If you disagree, ask yourself one simple question. How is someone lazy just because they buy gold? What if they bought gold using the real life currency they receive from hard manual labor, or in a job far worse than the priviledge you're currently experiencing? No offense, but I would be careful tossing around insults to gold buyers as "lazy" or "criminal", when there is a good possibility you are far more lazy, or far more immoral.
"He buys gold! What a horrible human being!"
Oh really? Is he horrible when he buys that gold for WoW playing orphans whose only dream is to PvP in a balanced game, but his account has no heirlooms and he won't live long enough to make it past Tier 1 PvP?
Is he still a horrible person, if he lives in a shack with nothing more than a computer hooked up to dial up, and the only pleasure he spends money on is buying WoW gold, while he attends to orphaned children in wartorn countries, spending his entire life savings on their betterment?
Why deal in such absolutes? Why stereotype people are bad, simply for playing a video game differently? How stunted is some of your moral judgement, that you are stuck in Stage 2 of kohlberg's stages of moral development? The stage where most teenagers reside. Teenagers that are proven psychopaths.
I exaggerrate a lot here and use unrealistic examples, to express the lunacy of deeming people who buy gold as immoral or "criminal". Please try and mature your moral development, to understand that buying gold is not always this horrendous evil you're making it out to be.
Yes, it can help to ruin a game, but no it does not cause it until far after the game is already ruined. It is never the major factor in ruining the game.
Yes, gold farmers who abuse prisoners or pay slave wages to abused employees are bad, but that is because of the lack of basic human rights laws and common decency among these societies. It is not evil because they're selling gold or breaking your beloved MMO. It's evil because of the same reasons every other foreign production business is evil: employee abuse and human rights violations.
Why don't you take a step down from your high horse, deeming gold buyers are criminal, and take a look at yourself? If you despise gold buyers because they support gold farmers and their immoral practices, why do you use a computer that has parts made in chinese factories who also abuse employees? Why do you have a smart phone made with the blood of exploited human beings?
Do the workers who kill themselves due to how horrid their lives are making your new iphone, deserve it because they aren't "hardcore enough to stick through the pain" like you do when you grind?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides
I voted None
Because if im to die next year this would mean I...
If you noticed, you call them gold FARMERS because you like to think they're in the game earning the gold you buy instead of the truth. They're mass hacking accounts and stealing the gold you're buying from other players who did earn it.
What are all these nations laws on possession of stolen goods ? I'm pretty sure " I didn't know it was stolen" doesn't make it ok.
Yeah ... basically this.
That is also why many cash shop sells gold. If it is part of the game, it is not cheating.
Again :
1- Buying gold from 3rd party RMT encourage hacking, botting, spamming, phising, and destroying the economy.
2- is specifically against the game rules, most of the time.
So... someone that doesnt play by the rules, to gain an "edge" against other players. Why would we hate that?
Why do we hate aimbotters so much, in FPS games? They just want that little "edge" to make them competitive, too!
So you are only against buying gold from 3rd party and think buying gold from cash shop is ok?
Buying gold from cash shop essentially invalidate your two points.
Exactly.
There is nothing wrong with a game with a built-in cash shop. The game is balanced around it. Its part of the rules. And you buying gold from the shop actually HELP the devs instead of hurting the game. Theres nothing wrong with it.
Now, a game with a built-in cash shop is probably not a game I want to play. But many people love P2win.
edit : I guess what I'm saying is : If you like buying gold, why dont you play a game designed for it (F2p with a cash shop), and stop ruining my games.
oh .. then we are in 100% agreement.
I do play f2P games and ignore the cashshop, but i have no problem if others are buying gold in a cashshop. In a game without, and not sanctioned by the devs, I do have a problem.
I'll try an analogy to see if I can explain a bit of the disdain for "gold buying" and "gold buyers". I hunt deer with bow and arrow. Anyone that's done that knows that it tends to involve ALOT of time sitting patiently in a tree-stand waiting for the opportunity to get a shot. You have to be very still and silent or you'll scare away the deer before they even approach. That can often be cold, uncomfortable and sometimes boring. When the deer does approach in range of the bow, you have to be very carefull about how you move the bow to get into position for the shot and how and when you draw-back or the deer will spook before you release.
Now I could pay someone to take a deer from a deer farm, drag it up in front of my stand and stake it down to the ground by a rope so that it can't runaway (there are actualy places that do pretty much that).
Would that completely cheapen and ruin the experience for me? - Absolutely.
Do I consider that "hunting" and the people who do that "real hunters" - Nope?
Do I have disdain for that as a practice - Yes.
"Gold Buying" is looked at in a bit of a similar vein to me as far as the hobby of gaming goes. Now obviously the above is a pretty extreme example and there are plenty of far less egrigious gradations .....even ones that I wouldn't really be bothered much over although I might not have as much respect for them as I do the purest form of the sport.
Same holds true for "gold buying" (although my feelings are far less extreme in that area). I generaly feel it cheapens the hobby of "gaming"......although there are ALOT of different gradations within that as to the specific details of how and what we are talking about by using the term and the environment in which it occurs that will effect the degree to which it is objectionable.
Generaly I dislike the practice in gaming and dislike associating with those who engage in it. Though again it varies a great deal in degree according to the specifics of what they are doing and in what sort of environment. Personaly I'd rather play games that didn't feature or support it at all and with gamers that didn't engage in it at all.....but I'm not going to beat someone up over examples that aren't ovrerly egreigious.
Ah, the myth that gold farmers are nothing but real life criminals who hack accounts and steal gold, abuse employees to death with whips, and are never legitimate.
Just like I predicted, ignorance seems to be the focal point for why people have so much irrational hatred for gold buyers.
They buy into the myths and propaganda that it is gold farmers, not economies designed to fail from Day 0, not the level system, not player inflation, which destroys the economy. Hatred stemming from ignorance of what ACTUALLY destroys economies, and how little an impact gold farmers actually have on the already ruined economics.
They buy into the irrational stereotype that ALL gold farmers are illegitimate criminals. ALL are chinese (some here probably don't even know there are different types of "asians", and just lump them all under one stereotype), and ALL are exploiting workers and prisoners with slave wages and long hours which result in high worker suicide rates. Ignorance that some are legitimate businesses that do not exploit their workers.
They buy into the irrational fear that gold farmers hack accounts en mass, and the primary way they get gold is hacking people's accounts. Ignorant of the reality that gold farmers who do hack accounts, do it for the max level character- not the gold, and only the most evil of hackers sell for every single penny. Ignorant of Blizzard's policy to instantly reverse and give back all money and gear after a hack, which neutralizes any harm done. Ignorant that the majority of gold farmers do NOT hack accounts, and instead farm using a much more efficient method.
Ignorant of how a vast majority of gold farming businesses rely on outsourcing gold farming AND gold selling, and merely act as a middle man between the individual gold farmer and the gold buyer. Ignorant of how the process actually works. Ignorant on how those businesses which outsource the work, which is a vast amount of them, have little to no knowledge of the evils the minority do. How can one stop that which they don't know, while keeping legitimate gold sellers safe.
Ignorant of how phishing scams and account hacking do not have such a high success rate in WoW, to accumulate any real amount of gold. Ignorant that hacked accounts are more valuable as playable, fully equipped characters, than as quick sells and closes.
Ignorance that the most successful of farmers use bots, and most of all: Ignorant on botting. How common botting is, even among normal users. How botting is far closer to cheating than the manual labor of farming or multi-box farming with macro's.
In the end, gold farmers do not make up even a sliver of why the economy is typically messed up in MMORPG's. They are not ALL illegitimate businesses. Only the more desperate or stupid people hack, and only the most evil of those idiots sell and quit instead of use the character to farm until locked out.
Even though I specifically said I do not want answers to my rhetorical question as to "Why do people hate gold buyers so much?" because I already know the answer... you all only solidified my hypothesis even further. Hatred, like most forms of irrational logic, stems from ignorance. It is no different than the racism that results from ignorance of minorities, or the hatred of "the welfare" that results from ignorance as to how the system actually works.
When you see emotionally volatile hatred for something- anything, it is probably the most rational decision to assume ignorance. Irrational hatred are prejudices and emotionally volatile insults to those stereotype and labeled incorrectly. Rational hatred being hatred of pure evils, like murder or dungeon kidnapping, in which hatred stems from it being psychopathic evil. Something reserved not for scoundrels, thieves, or lawbreakers- but for the most vicious of crimes against human life and suffering.
If you truly think gold buyers are worthy of "the true death", you should probably take a step back and reevaluate your judgements. When it comes to something as silly as buying currency in a video game, extreme hatred is most definitely going to be considered irrational hatred by all but the most looney.
I mean, calling them criminals? Get real kids. There are far worse crimes against humanity than someone buying gold and surpassing you in levels in a video game. I don't think it is very rational to label them as criminals, as if our justice system should put murders, rapes, grand theft, and spousal abuse on hold to process crimes against video game e-peens.
I stopped reading here because it was getting hard to see over all your bull shit. Say whatever you need to say to make yourself feel better. Accounts are getting hack but it's not the people you buy gold from....sounds legit to me.
+1
General chat of pretty much ANY new MMO is being spammed by constant gold farmer spam.
Last I checked, my email junk folder was also full of "your XXX account will be cancelled if you dont click this link!!"
3rd party Rmt ARE stealing accounts, hacking, botting, whatever works to make them more money.
Gold buyers ARE doing stuff against the rules to gain an edge over other players.
Kwaynoss99, we understand, you love buying gold, and you'll never question the policies of 3rd party RMT as long as you get your gold. But could you point me to a legitimate gold farmer? Oh, since its against the ToS of most game, good luck with that, I guess?
FFXIV would like to have a talk with you. A month after release, some people were buying and selling items for 2x to 3x the amount of money that lvl 50 character can possibly have. Its not the devs. Its not the "fail economy". Its not player inflation (the game just released, ffs!). Its the massive inflation brought by 3rd party RMT.
Then SE stepped up and outright DELETED gold that was acquired by 3rd party rmt (would have loved to see the face of someone that bought tons of gil... log in one morning only to find that all his money was gone.) And then suddenly price were back to normal. But.. its because of the fail economy, right?
Fact is, thanks to RMT, most players werent able to purchase gear because it was too expensive, only one month after release! RMT is a vicious circle. RMT raise the prices, this encourage people to buy gold, and this raise the prices even further.
Oh guys, I wasnt hacked for my gold, they were just after my characters, what a relief!! ...Are you for real?
The fact that blizzard (ONE company. There are other MMOs out there) has a pretty awesome policy on hacking is irrelevant. "Hey, I'll punch you in the face, but you can go to the hospital, so no harms done, right?". Laughable.
My friend got his account hacked, and he still lost a week of playtime because he had to wait for a complete rollback, btw. Fact is : getting your account hacked SUCKS. Period.
They must live under a rock if they have "no knowledge" of the evils the so-called minority do. I'd hire a PR manager if I had a legitimate gold selling business going on. I'd also hire a PR manager if I had a legitimate drug selling business going on, just sayin.
Oh guys, they hacked me, but they're keeping my char instead of selling it, WHAT A RELIEF. This keeps getting better...
This is supposed to make us feel good about gold farmers... how?
Botting might be common, but this doesnt make it acceptable. What are you trying to say, here?
Botting might be "better" than hacking, but its still excess gold entering the economy. In a way, botting is worse than hacking ,because hacking is just a "transfer" of funds, while botting generates completely new ressources.
I dont think its hate. I dont like cheaters. I dont like gold buyers. I dont like people that use aimbots in FPS. I dont like people that use map hacks in RTS.
I knew a guy that used map hack in starcraft. He was a cool guy outside of the game, but I never wanted to play with him in a game (even in the same team). Same thing here.
edit : I'll add a quote because I LOVE QUOTES! (John Smedley, SoE. http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/01/14/a-ces-interview-with-soe-ceo-john-smedley-pt-2/)
I once bought gold for SWG back when gold farming in SWG just seemed to be just taking off...I bought a million credits which at the time, was a shit ton of credits. I bought it on ebay, and following that i started getting spam emails from assholes telling me i would be banned etc, I never was, but it scared the hell out of me. SWG was also my first MMO and I had no idea how to earn them so I bought them so I could buy shit.
I haven't bought gold from farmers since, too scared they are crimminals or that I would get a shit ton of spam. I do play plenty of games with item malls, and I figure that is simply the publishers gold farmer counter. If it is a FTP game, and I enjoy the game, I figure buying a few thing in the item mall is my way of thanking them for making a fun game...for example playing neverwinter right now, and enjoying it, so I spent $50 on zen to reward the makers for a fun game. It is about the cost of a game so I figure i am getting my money's worth.
My other hobby is mountain biking, and I just spent 6k on a bike, so pissing away a few bucks at the item mall isnt a big deal. I am fortunate to have some expendable income, but I can see where item malls, gold from farmers, etc could be addictive to try and keep up and that could really suck if you don't have the income or shouldnt be using your income on such crap. I only have expendable income because i work my ass off IRL so i have little time for grinding in games, hence why item malls and FTP games seem to be somewhat succesful, I am guessing there are enough dumbasses like me to keep them funded because we don't have the time otherwise...sorry everyone.
I am torn on the issue actually. I don't think shit bag spammers should be able to sell gold, nothing worse than having to ignore 20 people everytime you enter a zone because they are jamming up chat with spam selling gold. Neverwinter has issues with this. I am not an IT person so I do not understant why it isnt easier for a game company to filter that shit before it goes public. If there was a legit way of doing it, without the annoying spam, then fuck...free market rules, but right now it sucks due to spammers. I lament because one of them gold spamming shitbags was probably the asshole I bought credits from back in 2003, 4 or when ever it launched, I probably encouraged or enabled that douche to keep his shitty business going...sorry once again.
Cheers
Rintintin
edit: to the poster right before my original post, didn't think of that effect that crimminals, may be using stolen credits cards etc, but I don't dought it happens. One could argue it is the cost of doing business, but that sucks...I think if it was a cost that was not acceptable the industry would invest more in combating the issue...it seems to happen in other sectors, but again, I am clueless to this sort of thing...I am sure many of you know more about this issue than I.
This might be the second of third time in all of Narius' 15k posts that I agree with him
If the game company chooses to sell to gold directly then I'm fine with it. I would never play such a game but that's a different story.
On the other hand if it's against the terms of service then there's nothing a player is going to say to me that will justify buying gold from a 3rd party. It's cheating, end of story.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Assuming all gold sellers are hacking criminals is like assuming all stock traders are using insider information. There's money to be made, but not everyone is committing criminal acts to acquire the money. They aren't all performing illegal acts, but the few who do ruin the reputation for their "industry".
I'm not defending gold sellers at all. They ruin the economies of games. Gold farmers are the equivalent to Obama giving everyone in the US $1,000,000. You might be happy at first, but when you have to pay $5,000 for a hamburger you will realize the flaw in the logic of giving everyone that much money.
So many excuses, obfuscations and justifications in this thread.
It's amazing how hard some people will try to justify their own misdeeds.
If you buy gold from a 3rd party that is not authorized to sell it by the game developer, you are violating the ToS of the game.
It's wrong. You're cheating. Your account should be banned.
It's really that simple. You don't like the rules in the game ? Don't play the game.
Hypothetical question here. I have never bought nor sold gold, this is just a thought that crossed my mind after reading some of this rather large thread. Say someone plays a game like WoW for a few years and they amassed around 500k in gold. A quick google search has a result saying 100k is worth around $160. So 500k is $800.
Do you people think in a case where that gold was accrued over a period of years through honest playing would be morally acceptable to be sold? If all of that person's gold was earned by ingame rules then theoretically there should be no economic impact selling it to another player.
Not really related but the person would have spent in 4 years of playing $720 in sub fees.
Interesting question.
I still think that player to player trading should never involve real money. See D3 real money auction house, and how even blizzard now realize it was a bad idea. They are going to remove it.