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[Column] WildStar: Ready to Raid

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,658MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

WildStar is a game that will include raids and dungeons, as most MMOs do. There are things, however, that need to happen to set the raid system apart from others. In our latest column, we take a look at WildStar raiding. Read on!

Rightly or wrongly, raiding has earned a bit of a bad reputation. In some corners it’s seen as an elitist activity enjoyed by a vocal and demanding minority of players. With others, its decay is seen as proof of a relentless dumbing-down by out-of-touch developers.

Depending on which side of the argument you fall on, Carbine’s plans will either make you grin with anticipation or facepalm in despair. Raiding in WildStar will be deliberately aimed at those who want brutal, unforgiving challenges. Executive Producer Jeremy Gaffney is aiming to deliver a game that the best raiding guilds in the world want to play, saying that it isn’t just “raiding for the sake of it.”  

Read more of Gareth Harmer's WildStar: Ready to Raid.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

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Comments

  • Robert_S4Robert_S4 TrondheimPosts: 142Member
    Looking forward to trying out Wildstar. Been in the beta since the start of it but haven't gotten an invite yet. 40 man raids sounds interesting! =)

    The people and the friends that we have lost, and the dreams that have faded, never forget them~

  • AvarixAvarix Chicago, ILPosts: 384Member Uncommon

    Have to be honest, for a while I was been kind of 'MEH' about this game. The more I read and hear from the devs though, the more I am interested. I just hope most of what they say isn't spin. My main concern right now is combat and classes.

     

    In most games when they introduce new classes, I have a hard time finding one I like. By trying to make new classes most games try new mechanics or to meld abilities from two classic classes into this new one(You no longer play a Wizard, but a Wizard that backstabs and carries a greatsword!). Most of the time I end up really disliking the classes and never finding one that fits. My other issue is the emphasis on telegraphs. I have no clue how this will play out but just from observation alone, it makes it seem like it will turn the fun of killing monsters into the MMO waltz. 

     

    As for what they are saying about raiding, I like it. I am not a hardcore raider, never have been, but I think having a portion of the game that not everyone, or even a majority, gets to experience is an undervalued part of MMORPGs. I think it keeps players reaching, which will keep them playing. So far I am looking forward to this one.

  • LorimarLorimar freisingPosts: 9Member

    Aren't 40 players already considered "zergish"?

    /sarcasm off

  • bbates024bbates024 Phoenix, AZPosts: 80Member Uncommon
    I can't wait! Thanks for another entertaining read Mr. Hammer!
  • MothanosMothanos ArnhemPosts: 1,860Member Uncommon

    40 man raids where to most epics raids ever.

    The scope of 40 people working togethre as a unit is something on a totaly other level then a 10 or 20 man raid.

     

    Vanila wow had 40 man raids to and the best memory's still are from those days.

    Glad to see WS holding on to this epic adventure :)

     

     

  • DogblasterDogblaster PraguePosts: 491Member

    Bring it on already :)

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,121Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Avarix

    Have to be honest, for a while I was been kind of 'MEH' about this game. The more I read and hear from the devs though, the more I am interested. I just hope most of what they say isn't spin. My main concern right now is combat and classes.

     

    In most games when they introduce new classes, I have a hard time finding one I like. By trying to make new classes most games try new mechanics or to meld abilities from two classic classes into this new one(You no longer play a Wizard, but a Wizard that backstabs and carries a greatsword!). Most of the time I end up really disliking the classes and never finding one that fits. My other issue is the emphasis on telegraphs. I have no clue how this will play out but just from observation alone, it makes it seem like it will turn the fun of killing monsters into the MMO waltz. 

     

    As for what they are saying about raiding, I like it. I am not a hardcore raider, never have been, but I think having a portion of the game that not everyone, or even a majority, gets to experience is an undervalued part of MMORPGs. I think it keeps players reaching, which will keep them playing. So far I am looking forward to this one.

    Over-valued in my opinion.  It only keeps a small niche of gamers reaching.  What's worse, they are a very vocal and abusive group of gamers who constantly scream about new content, usually only the kind they like at the expense of everyone else, especially the masses who foot the bill for said raid content.  I think the typical formula of abusing regular gamers in order to subsidize elitist content is getting really, really old.

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  • Swids2010Swids2010 plymouthPosts: 244Member

    One of the biggest things I am Excited about is 40 man raiding I hate that all mmo's at the moment seam to be reducing group size needed to complete content. Its called Massive Multiplayer for a reason would personally like to see a mmo that required grouping for all aspects of a game.

    My biggest opinion of last few years goes out to all MMO developers if you create a game were nearly all the content can be done solo then you failed to create a MMO.

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  • Siris23Siris23 Minneapolis, MNPosts: 217Member Uncommon

    Well, I guess I'm happy the hardcore crowd gets their content, but it doesn't sound like there's going to be any casual raiding and I just can't schedule my time around an MMO any more.

    Hopefully the "lots of other content" will include casual large group PvE content that will be just as entertaining as raiding. 

     
  • jazz.bejazz.be Sint-NiklaasPosts: 820Member Uncommon

    I hope it compensates for the little amount of abilities.

    Not sure which I prefer. 40 abilities or 40 man raids...

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen USA, GAPosts: 2,451Member Uncommon
    I did 40 man raiding before, and I just couldn't see myself ever doing it again. It wasn't fun, even when it was challenging. It was still a gear grind, and I despise gear grinding mmorpg's.

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    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
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  • Zap-RoboZap-Robo Youngstown, OHPosts: 233Member Uncommon

    Interrupt Armour did not exist in the WildStar sense in City of Heroes. City of Heroes had a Magnitiude system - in order to Hold a creature with Mag 5 Protection (which was not an easy to discover stat until late on in the game's history - when analyzer powers came in) you had to stack 6 or more points of Hold on the creature.

    Plus, this does nothing for the durations of the powers - as soon as the duration of the first stack wears off then the mez is broken.

    Each Hold power had it's own Magnitude as well, a AoE Hold might have been Mag 1, whereas a single-target attack could be Mag 2. You could not stack other mez types to "add up" to that Mag rating. So a Mag 3 Hold and a Mag 3 Immob would do nothing to a Mag 5 Mez Resistant Creature. Add to that, each Mag Resistance was individual to each mez type. Very messy system, but interesting as you could have mobs weak to one specific thing...

    Compare this to WildStar where I believe Interrupt Armour is a depletable resource - each singular instance of a CC power will knock down the counter by one. This means once the IA is at zero, the next CC will take affect - for it's full duration. Plus you should be able to throw immobs, holds, confuses, etc. all at once and each will deplete the IA Counter.

    This throws in a differing strategy than in CoH - making it easier to overcome IA and mez a boss as you don't all need to spam the same mez type, but more difficult as the last hit will control what mez type takes affect so more coordination is needed to get the desired effect.

    All very interesting...

    --
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  • Seeker728Seeker728 Las Vegas, NVPosts: 179Member
    Originally posted by The1ceQueen
    I did 40 man raiding before, and I just couldn't see myself ever doing it again. It wasn't fun, even when it was challenging. It was still a gear grind, and I despise gear grinding mmorpg's.

    This.  Thanks for the insight as to what Wildstar will be aiming for, those who want that will hopefully form the entirety of its player base and everyone there will be happy.  Means other games will (hopefully) cater to tastes that don't want 40 man raids.  

    As a vet of EQ1 days of raiding, then V-WoW on through Cata, bigger raids meant bigger headaches, 10 man was the sweet spot where lives and gaming were able to be balanced.  But for those who crave this sort of thing, hope Wildstar delivers for you, and I'm grateful to know this will be Wildstar's aim so that I can steer clear of it.

    Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.

  • ZapzapZapzap Someplace, WYPosts: 224Member Uncommon
    It has been confirmed for quite a awhile that 20 man and 40 man raids will have separate dungeons and not reuse the same dungeon.
  • ZapzapZapzap Someplace, WYPosts: 224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Siris23

    Well, I guess I'm happy the hardcore crowd gets their content, but it doesn't sound like there's going to be any casual raiding and I just can't schedule my time around an MMO any more.

    Hopefully the "lots of other content" will include casual large group PvE content that will be just as entertaining as raiding. 

     
     

    20 man raids are for the casuals and will be tuned more for casuals.  They also have put a strong emphasis on creating endgame content for solo/casual players with monthly solo instances, small dungeons and new storylines.

  • odiasudaodiasuda KaunasPosts: 81Member Uncommon
    Well,  this takes the wind out of my sails a bit regarding this game.  Hopefully the end game PvP is good because, in my opinion, 20-40 man raids are as fun as getting a root canal without anesthetic, or perhaps watching a loved one being autopsied.
  • azzamasinazzamasin Butler, OHPosts: 3,058Member Uncommon
    Open Bosses in GW2 was considered zergy but 40 man in Wildstar is considered skillful?  I really do not get this site sometimes.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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  • HrothaHrotha -Posts: 821Member
    Originally posted by odiasuda
    Well,  this takes the wind out of my sails a bit regarding this game.  Hopefully the end game PvP is good because, in my opinion, 20-40 man raids are as fun as getting a root canal without anesthetic, or perhaps watching a loved one being autopsied.

    With that few abiltiies? What exactly should be fun in WildStar PvP and Combat in general?

    I fell asleep during the Closed Beta. So so much repetition that your brain flows out of your eyes... wheres is the variety??

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  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member


    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Open Bosses in GW2 was considered zergy but 40 man in Wildstar is considered skillful?  I really do not get this site sometimes.


    Well an organized 40 man raid can take a lot of work to control and use efficiently if the game is built to make use of it. GW2 is built such that 40 people mashing their faces on the keyboard can complete most content so it isn't quite the same.

  • Siris23Siris23 Minneapolis, MNPosts: 217Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zapzap
    Originally posted by Siris23

    Well, I guess I'm happy the hardcore crowd gets their content, but it doesn't sound like there's going to be any casual raiding and I just can't schedule my time around an MMO any more.

    Hopefully the "lots of other content" will include casual large group PvE content that will be just as entertaining as raiding. 

     
     

    20 man raids are for the casuals and will be tuned more for casuals.  They also have put a strong emphasis on creating endgame content for solo/casual players with monthly solo instances, small dungeons and new storylines.

    Solo/small group end game content is fine but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about logging in on a random day of the week and be able to hop into a big event (I.E. a PUG or semi-organized group)

    Maybe 20-mans will fill this gap, I don't know. I haven't seen much on them other than they exist and aren't just scaled down versions of the 40-mans.

  • mindw0rkmindw0rk St-petersburgPosts: 1,351Member
    40 man raids are huge mistake. They should learn from WoW, not step on same rake
  • DatastarDatastar Austin, TXPosts: 195Member Common
    Originally posted by Vorthanion
    Originally posted by Avarix

    Have to be honest, for a while I was been kind of 'MEH' about this game. The more I read and hear from the devs though, the more I am interested. I just hope most of what they say isn't spin. My main concern right now is combat and classes.

     

    In most games when they introduce new classes, I have a hard time finding one I like. By trying to make new classes most games try new mechanics or to meld abilities from two classic classes into this new one(You no longer play a Wizard, but a Wizard that backstabs and carries a greatsword!). Most of the time I end up really disliking the classes and never finding one that fits. My other issue is the emphasis on telegraphs. I have no clue how this will play out but just from observation alone, it makes it seem like it will turn the fun of killing monsters into the MMO waltz. 

     

    As for what they are saying about raiding, I like it. I am not a hardcore raider, never have been, but I think having a portion of the game that not everyone, or even a majority, gets to experience is an undervalued part of MMORPGs. I think it keeps players reaching, which will keep them playing. So far I am looking forward to this one.

    Over-valued in my opinion.  It only keeps a small niche of gamers reaching.  What's worse, they are a very vocal and abusive group of gamers who constantly scream about new content, usually only the kind they like at the expense of everyone else, especially the masses who foot the bill for said raid content.  I think the typical formula of abusing regular gamers in order to subsidize elitist content is getting really, really old.

    Its not as small niche as you think look at sub numbers from wow the more they headed away from epic raids the less folks they have I would say if anything 50-60% of the mmorpg community is like myself having very fond memories of molten core and illidan etc and we have been endlessly searching for that experience again as blizzard moves farther and farther away from it. Unfortunately no other game has delivered this gameplay back to the community on the scale Wildstar aims to.  Who better then to put down a sick dog then the parents of that sick dog go go carbine!!!

  • flguy147flguy147 orlando, FLPosts: 375Member Uncommon
    I will play this game but its gonna be hard filling up 40 man raids nowadays.  Finding 40 people with the same work schedule or schedule at all will be difficult because things happen in real life.   Its hard enough to find 5 people for dungeons a lot of times and extremely hard to fill up 20 man raids consistently.  
  • ZapzapZapzap Someplace, WYPosts: 224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Siris23
    Originally posted by Zapzap
    Originally posted by Siris23

    Well, I guess I'm happy the hardcore crowd gets their content, but it doesn't sound like there's going to be any casual raiding and I just can't schedule my time around an MMO any more.

    Hopefully the "lots of other content" will include casual large group PvE content that will be just as entertaining as raiding. 

     
     

    20 man raids are for the casuals and will be tuned more for casuals.  They also have put a strong emphasis on creating endgame content for solo/casual players with monthly solo instances, small dungeons and new storylines.

    Solo/small group end game content is fine but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about logging in on a random day of the week and be able to hop into a big event (I.E. a PUG or semi-organized group)

    Maybe 20-mans will fill this gap, I don't know. I haven't seen much on them other than they exist and aren't just scaled down versions of the 40-mans.

    I understand what you are saying.  But this may take some time with Carbines philosophy of challenge and difficulty.  It might be some time before a PuG will be capable of downing many raid bosses.  But as people gear up and make progress I am sure this will happen.  Top raid guilds run alt runs and pug runs pretty quickly after a dungeon goes on farm. Although those will be a lot harder to get into.  But all PuG raid runs I bet will take quite some time after they released  before they are doable by true PuGs.  I would hope at least 6+ months.

     

    Carbine has expressed some novel ideas for ways of getting people involved that normally could not take down a raid boss.  Gaffney proposed what he called the "Million idiot march" where occasionally they will open some very difficult raid bosses for a weekend to an unlimited amount of players and see how do as a zerg.  Taking off the 40 man restriction and allowing players to zerg the boss.   Speculation is rampant as to whether the addition  of unorganized  players  would be beneficial. I have no clue how they would handle loot for such a thing but my guess is would be nerfed for the lower challenge.  But it sounds like a fun idea and hopefully something they will allow us to watch in spectator mode similar to the spectator mode they have planned for PvP.

     
  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Raids just kill open world immersion. why don't they just make lobby based games with 40 man raids because that's all that most mmo's are these days. Some of us more intelligent folk want a deeper experience. I think a split in the genre is badly needed.
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