Yes...League of LegendsIS more popular than World of Warcraft.
Why is this surprising? The entire point of online entertainment development over the last ten years was focused on three things:
1) Eliminating downtime and getting people to the combat faster.
2) Focusing all development on delivering the combat, streamlining it away from things extraneous to the combat.
3) Making the combat faster, harder and more reactive than cerebral.
League of Legends is simply World of Warcraft outsimplifying World of Warcraft. I mean, when you get to World of Warcraft, you already have an MMO that has discarded everything extraneous (deep character creation, housing, roleplay, worldliness, etc.), while still remaining an MMO. What League of Legends did was just remove all the remaining MMO stuff that kept WoW from delivering the combat faster: the character creator, the common zones, the chains, the guilds.
Is it an MMO anymore? Well, it is about as MMO as the Morlocks from The Time Machine are human beings. Genetically, League of Legends might share World of Warcraft "DNA," but it is a far cry from what MMOs used to be, back in the belle époque of the early 21st century.
I used to say, back in the days of WoW dominance, that the MMO that would supplant WoW wouldn't even be an MMO in the traditional sense. Because you can only simplify so much, before you have to get rid of the residual MMO stuff like asking for invites into groups, the guild tags, the chat boxes, and the character creator. So it isn't surprising to me that League of Legends out-WoWed World of Warcraft. One could say we should have predicted it.
I agreed with your arguments but many here dispute simplification will lead to success. Clearly LoL is an example of that success, and your post points out the reasoning.
The question is ... can it be done also for pve? LoL does it for pvp with flying colors. But it also cut out all the pve. I suppose one can argue that D3, or ARPG in general, is the pve side of things.
Whether it should or should not be classified as MMO does not concern me. But i bet the trend of more convenient, and more focus gameplay will continue.
Though I often agree about Narius' posts being about the virtues of F2P. His comparison here does have merit as investors for games don't really look at or care about definitions of whether it's an Mmo or MOBA (unless it's from kickstarter). They look at numbers. Maybe a select few look to make a gamer's game but history has shown us otherwise.
Whether it's players, popularity, or revenue. They put their money where they perceive a return.
It's also a forum to discuss online games, of which LoL is listed on this site. Also, Mmo makers will see if more ppl are playing 'other' types of online games to help them decide what to implement in their Mmos (kinda like Blizz and their Titan project being delayed. Speculation yet cause for doubt).
Yes...League of LegendsIS more popular than World of Warcraft.
Why is this surprising? The entire point of online entertainment development over the last ten years was focused on three things:
1) Eliminating downtime and getting people to the combat faster.
2) Focusing all development on delivering the combat, streamlining it away from things extraneous to the combat.
3) Making the combat faster, harder and more reactive than cerebral.
League of Legends is simply World of Warcraft outsimplifying World of Warcraft. I mean, when you get to World of Warcraft, you already have an MMO that has discarded everything extraneous (deep character creation, housing, roleplay, worldliness, etc.), while still remaining an MMO. What League of Legends did was just remove all the remaining MMO stuff that kept WoW from delivering the combat faster: the character creator, the common zones, the chains, the guilds.
Is it an MMO anymore? Well, it is about as MMO as the Morlocks from The Time Machine are human beings. Genetically, League of Legends might share World of Warcraft "DNA," but it is a far cry from what MMOs used to be, back in the belle époque of the early 21st century.
I used to say, back in the days of WoW dominance, that the MMO that would supplant WoW wouldn't even be an MMO in the traditional sense. Because you can only simplify so much, before you have to get rid of the residual MMO stuff like asking for invites into groups, the guild tags, the chat boxes, and the character creator. So it isn't surprising to me that League of Legends out-WoWed World of Warcraft. One could say we should have predicted it.
I agreed with your arguments but many here dispute simplification will lead to success. Clearly LoL is an example of that success, and your post points out the reasoning.
The question is ... can it be done also for pve? LoL does it for pvp with flying colors. But it also cut out all the pve. I suppose one can argue that D3, or ARPG in general, is the pve side of things.
Whether it should or should not be classified as MMO does not concern me. But i bet the trend of more convenient, and more focus gameplay will continue.
I don't know if it "will continue" as much as it "already happened." Perhaps the only other place they can go to simplify at this point is to get rid of the players altogether somehow...it sounds absurd, but where else can developers go?
They can go deeper, of course. They can resurrect or recreate a lot of the richness that has been stripped out over the years. But as far as the convenience, speed and action angles are concerned, how much more convenient, speedy and action-heavy can we even get than what League of Legends and Diablo III offer now? It's a serious question.
A lot of how online gaming has developed is similar to how the porn industry has developed. Porn has never been more available and accessible. It has never been more distilled; gone are the days of watching a plot. These days, you can get to the action right away. It is also far cheaper to acquire today. As a result? The porn industry is in dire straits, trying to figure out what else to do to attract more viewers.
And the ones who are surviving are getting creative; more depth (in the aesthetic sense, not in 'another' sense...hehe) more soft core elements, more plot and production quality. The same may happen with MMOs.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
It's also a forum to discuss online games, of which LoL is listed on this site. Also, Mmo makers will see if more ppl are playing 'other' types of online games to help them decide what to implement in their Mmos (kinda like Blizz and their Titan project being delayed. Speculation yet cause for doubt).
Blizz is a good example. Just look at what games they fast-tracked? A online TCG, and a MOBA. I bet the MOBA is going to see the light of the day way before Titan.
The other one happening relatively soon is the D3 expansion. I would speculate that they are losing faith in traditional MMO, and may drastically change the design of titan.
I think everyone is looking at ESO and that would determine if there is still a market for traditional MMO.
well I want to draw a small parallel between MMO and RTS.
the great Westwood created the computer RTS genre. Their first title was perhaps a bit ... limited but what followed were things like Red Alert and Tiberian Sun. Then they started releasing sequels of those. After EA bought them up. And these were progressively worse. Is this i a sign there's no RTS market ?
in 1997 Starcraft launches. about 15 years later...Starcraft 2. Many complained its virtually the same with different units/graphics. Yet, it was embraced by millions. WHY?
Some people really want "the same thing only better". A modern graphics version of an old MMO we loved but with the same mechanics and gameplay...that's what we hope for.
MMOs did a great job at removing time sinks...but have failed to find alternatives to fill those timesinks with. So the end result is something worse than timesinks. it's "Nothing".
having time but no sink is the definition of boredom.
It's a good point you make about RTS. One of the worst RTS games I played had to be Dawn of War II. I got it because I wanted a better Dawn of War...but what I got was a simplified Dawn of War that took out a lot of the nuance surrounding strategic points, base building, economics and units.
In short, it took the thing I liked (Dawn of War), and turned it into some slow playing Diablo clone. It's the same mistake the MMO publishers did with MMOs...turning them from one thing into a kind of action/adventure title with common areas and groups.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
MMOs have never been in the fore front of online gaming. WoW was a fluke, before that came along MMOs were, and have returned to being, a niche genre. If MMO developers would realize this they would stop trying to make games dedicated to the lowest common denominator and actually create an MMO worth playing again.
GW2 sold millions in its first week. Heck, even TOR sold 2M.
Now, i am sure devs have figured out MMORPGs are not what they cracked up to be. Even Blizz is canceling (or as they say ... starting from scratch) Titan.
May be you will get your wish and MMORPG will go back to niche. I do have a suspicion that since MMORPG is costly to make, may be fewer will get made, instead of all becoming indie effort.
None of what you just said made MMOs the fore front of online gaming. By the time TOR and GW2 released World of Tanks, Call of Duty and League were reigning champs in online gaming.
In short, it took the thing I liked (Dawn of War), and turned it into some slow playing Diablo clone. It's the same mistake the MMO publishers did with MMOs...turning them from one thing into a kind of action/adventure title with common areas and groups.
You don't seem to like innovation.
DoW2 is a great game. Well reviewed. Personally I like it much more than the same old ... build-fight Starcraft clone. A small tactics game with RPG elements is a breeze of fresh air.
The lesson I wish MMOs would learn from LoL is "It's better to do one thing and do it better than anyone else than try to be all things to all people. Know your core audience and give them what they want."
Too many games try to please everyone and as a result end up pleasing no one.
Yes...League of LegendsIS more popular than World of Warcraft.
Why is this surprising? The entire point of online entertainment development over the last ten years was focused on three things:
1) Eliminating downtime and getting people to the combat faster.
2) Focusing all development on delivering the combat, streamlining it away from things extraneous to the combat.
3) Making the combat faster, harder and more reactive than cerebral.
League of Legends is simply World of Warcraft outsimplifying World of Warcraft. I mean, when you get to World of Warcraft, you already have an MMO that has discarded everything extraneous (deep character creation, housing, roleplay, worldliness, etc.), while still remaining an MMO. What League of Legends did was just remove all the remaining MMO stuff that kept WoW from delivering the combat faster: the character creator, the common zones, the chains, the guilds.
Is it an MMO anymore? Well, it is about as MMO as the Morlocks from The Time Machine are human beings. Genetically, League of Legends might share World of Warcraft "DNA," but it is a far cry from what MMOs used to be, back in the belle époque of the early 21st century.
I used to say, back in the days of WoW dominance, that the MMO that would supplant WoW wouldn't even be an MMO in the traditional sense. Because you can only simplify so much, before you have to get rid of the residual MMO stuff like asking for invites into groups, the guild tags, the chat boxes, and the character creator. So it isn't surprising to me that League of Legends out-WoWed World of Warcraft. One could say we should have predicted it.
Your wrong. MOBA are literally RTS dumbed down to heroes. These games are point and click RTS games stripped of resource gather, unit command and building with a slapped on temporary leveling system. That's their roots not WoW. They have not "DNA" with WoW. They're not point in comparing the games one is persistent personal character RPG and this is a hero RTS pregenerated temporary heroes.
It's also a forum to discuss online games, of which LoL is listed on this site. Also, Mmo makers will see if more ppl are playing 'other' types of online games to help them decide what to implement in their Mmos (kinda like Blizz and their Titan project being delayed. Speculation yet cause for doubt).
Blizz is a good example. Just look at what games they fast-tracked? A online TCG, and a MOBA. I bet the MOBA is going to see the light of the day way before Titan.
The other one happening relatively soon is the D3 expansion. I would speculate that they are losing faith in traditional MMO, and may drastically change the design of titan.
I think everyone is looking at ESO and that would determine if there is still a market for traditional MMO.
I am not so sure that they are losing faith, I think they are unsure of what needs to be next. They originally took the EQ model imo, and looked at ways to make it more casual/quick. Then, if anything new was coming out, that people were excited about, they adapted it to WoW.
They could take paying customers from WoW, and this makes them no more money in the short run...They could flop (yes, people don't want to think it can happen, but the voices have gotten louder with their more recent games from some)...
MOBA is hot right now, and it is pretty straight forward, as are TCGs, so better to focus your efforts where you know what you want to do. SoE restarted EQNext numerous times also, if Landmark looks like a hit, on its way to being its own thing and a companion to Next, then they may well try to do what they did with WoW. They could see where SoE isn't hitting a home run, or what they think are weak/missing areas and put out what they think is their new WoW....They could also go a completely different direction...I think they want to see how some of the current titles shake out, and probably work on art assets and things that can be used, no matter the direction they finally decide to go.
WoW has made them a ton of cash, I do not think they are going to give up on the MMO scene.
The lesson I wish MMOs would learn from LoL is "It's better to do one thing and do it better than anyone else than try to be all things to all people. Know your core audience and give them what they want."
Too many games try to please everyone and as a result end up pleasing no one.
If by "pleasing no one" you mean "multiple millions more than the narrow-focus titles", you might be accurate.
Let's remember, damned few of Ye Olden Games of Yore Most Revered and Holy have ever pushed a half-mill. Ever.
The esteem we hold them in has little or nothing to do with commercial success.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
The lesson I wish MMOs would learn from LoL is "It's better to do one thing and do it better than anyone else than try to be all things to all people. Know your core audience and give them what they want."
Too many games try to please everyone and as a result end up pleasing no one.
If by "pleasing no one" you mean "multiple millions more than the narrow-focus titles", you might be accurate.
Let's remember, damned few of Ye Olden Games of Yore Most Revered and Holy have ever pushed a half-mill. Ever.
The esteem we hold them in has little or nothing to do with commercial success.
WoW is the only MMO to count itself its subs in "multiple millions" and I think it's an anomaly. Better to have a smaller but loyal audience than start with a slightly larger one but then lose most of them after a month or two and soon have to go F2P. I would be willing to bet that an MMO will never see 10 million subs again. That's just not the natural size of the market and new MMOs just hurt themselves a lot by trying to be the "WoW killer"
LoL is really good at the kind of team arena combat it does and has attracted tons of users by focusing on that. The current generation of MMOs could definitely learn something from that.
"There are at least two kinds of games. One could be called finite, the other infinite. A finite game is played for the purpose of winning, an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play." Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
I am not so sure that they are losing faith, I think they are unsure of what needs to be next. They originally took the EQ model imo, and looked at ways to make it more casual/quick. Then, if anything new was coming out, that people were excited about, they adapted it to WoW.
That is losing faith. They are no longer "sure" that MMORPG is needed to be next.
Yes...League of LegendsIS more popular than World of Warcraft.
Why is this surprising? The entire point of online entertainment development over the last ten years was focused on three things:
1) Eliminating downtime and getting people to the combat faster.
2) Focusing all development on delivering the combat, streamlining it away from things extraneous to the combat.
3) Making the combat faster, harder and more reactive than cerebral.
League of Legends is simply World of Warcraft outsimplifying World of Warcraft. I mean, when you get to World of Warcraft, you already have an MMO that has discarded everything extraneous (deep character creation, housing, roleplay, worldliness, etc.), while still remaining an MMO. What League of Legends did was just remove all the remaining MMO stuff that kept WoW from delivering the combat faster: the character creator, the common zones, the chains, the guilds.
Is it an MMO anymore? Well, it is about as MMO as the Morlocks from The Time Machine are human beings. Genetically, League of Legends might share World of Warcraft "DNA," but it is a far cry from what MMOs used to be, back in the belle époque of the early 21st century.
I used to say, back in the days of WoW dominance, that the MMO that would supplant WoW wouldn't even be an MMO in the traditional sense. Because you can only simplify so much, before you have to get rid of the residual MMO stuff like asking for invites into groups, the guild tags, the chat boxes, and the character creator. So it isn't surprising to me that League of Legends out-WoWed World of Warcraft. One could say we should have predicted it.
Your wrong. MOBA are literally RTS dumbed down to heroes. These games are point and click RTS games stripped of resource gather, unit command and building with a slapped on temporary leveling system. That's their roots not WoW. They have not "DNA" with WoW. They're not point in comparing the games one is persistent personal character RPG and this is a hero RTS pregenerated temporary heroes.
I've never got mobas, i've tried both LOL and DOTA2 - hell Valve have bombarded me with at least 20 keys for DOTA2. But I never saw the point to them.
I would rather play a competative match of DOW2 or something, which plays pretty similar, but at least the maps change.
Perhaps its a generational thing, are MOBAs the domain of cool young people or something?
But yeah they are more like a mash up of hero orientated RTS's like warcraft 3 and DOW 2 with elements of tower defence games and diablo. I dont see the wow similarity at all either
The lesson I wish MMOs would learn from LoL is "It's better to do one thing and do it better than anyone else than try to be all things to all people. Know your core audience and give them what they want."
Too many games try to please everyone and as a result end up pleasing no one.
If by "pleasing no one" you mean "multiple millions more than the narrow-focus titles", you might be accurate.
Let's remember, damned few of Ye Olden Games of Yore Most Revered and Holy have ever pushed a half-mill. Ever.
The esteem we hold them in has little or nothing to do with commercial success.
WoW is the only MMO to count itself its subs in "multiple millions" and I think it's an anomaly. Better to have a smaller but loyal audience than start with a slightly larger one but then lose most of them after a month or two and soon have to go F2P. I would be willing to bet that an MMO will never see 10 million subs again. That's just not the natural size of the market and new MMOs just hurt themselves a lot by trying to be the "WoW killer"
LoL is really good at the kind of team arena combat it does and has attracted tons of users by focusing on that. The current generation of MMOs could definitely learn something from that.
Exactly this. Not to mention in a time when the market is flooded with generic quest hub grinders and failing to hold subs that games would diversify to fill other niches. Because at this point outside WoW most of these games have niche number anyways.
so eventually make kids think as if 'esports' is same as real sports.
Not only kids. The US govt agrees that e-sport is same as real sports and e-athletes can be classified as athletes for visa purposes.
And if olympics recognize e-sport .. what more do you need?
A fat, bald middle aged professional bowler is more of an athlete than an e-sport "athlete" ever will be.
BTW, World of Tanks claims to have around 70 million registered users, too, and had over 800k users playing at one time on the Russian servers. I have a feeling they probably make more money than LoL.
so eventually make kids think as if 'esports' is same as real sports.
Not only kids. The US govt agrees that e-sport is same as real sports and e-athletes can be classified as athletes for visa purposes.
And if olympics recognize e-sport .. what more do you need?
A fat, bald middle aged professional bowler is more of an athlete than an e-sport "athlete" ever will be.
I'm sure it's just a vocabulary issue - if it were called a 'competitors' visa, it would be more accurate. They deserve a visa for being involved in a competition, not because they are 'athletic'. Because they named the visa an 'athlete's' visa, likely before the computer was invented, it does not mean that the visa controls the definition of an 'athlete' for the future.
But that being said, would a e-sport "athlete" be more of an athlete than the bowler if he/she could also run marathons? Maybe they game on an exercise bike with ankle weights......
so eventually make kids think as if 'esports' is same as real sports.
Not only kids. The US govt agrees that e-sport is same as real sports and e-athletes can be classified as athletes for visa purposes.
And if olympics recognize e-sport .. what more do you need?
I will need a bullet to the head. Just the idea that they might even consider adding esports to the Olympics makes me cringe. There is not even a comparison in the difference in talent between a real athlete and one of these "eathletes." It already makes me sick that the US passed that law.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
It's kind of crazy the extent of which fan boys will go to get the point across that their favorite game at the moment is more popular than WoW.
I've played my fair share of MOBA's, and its very clear to anyone who plays them often. LoL is for the lesser skilled crowd(overall). It's easier to get into, easier to learn, a lot more forgiving when you're a new/bad player. DotA2/HoN are way more fast paced(HoN gameplay is actually 25% faster than DotA2's) with a much steeper learning curve. Faster pace, requires quicker reactions, requires strategizing differently to adapt. Now the top LoL players are different, they would be top players in HoN, or DotA2 simply because they're good. But on average, if you're new, you play LoL. Once you've learned it you move onto the adult games ie: DotA2 and HoN.
But back on topic... WoW has to be the most successful in terms of revenue generated of any game period. I would be surprised if a game has generated more than them. So many years at the top of the heap, and they still are.. It's crazy. No one has 1/10 of wow's current subs. FFXIV would be the closest game but I doubt even that is close.
So no, LoL is not more popular than WoW in terms of finance. In terms of being free and appealing to the young adults in this world? Probably. But it will NEVER make anywhere close to the amount of money WoW has produced for Blizzard.
so eventually make kids think as if 'esports' is same as real sports.
Not only kids. The US govt agrees that e-sport is same as real sports and e-athletes can be classified as athletes for visa purposes.
And if olympics recognize e-sport .. what more do you need?
I will need a bullet to the head. Just the idea that they might even consider adding esports to the Olympics makes me cringe. There is not even a comparison in the difference in talent between a real athlete and one of these "eathletes." It already makes me sick that the US passed that law.
"comparison in difference in talent" .. .i don't suppose you think you hold a candle to those e-athletes? Have you seen the koreans playing SC2 (another e-sport games). They can do hundreds of actions every min. How many can you do?
I doubt many current olympians can beat those e-athletes in their respective games too.
But guess what, you can cringe all you want but you are not the one who is making the decision, are you?
so eventually make kids think as if 'esports' is same as real sports.
Not only kids. The US govt agrees that e-sport is same as real sports and e-athletes can be classified as athletes for visa purposes.
And if olympics recognize e-sport .. what more do you need?
I will need a bullet to the head. Just the idea that they might even consider adding esports to the Olympics makes me cringe. There is not even a comparison in the difference in talent between a real athlete and one of these "eathletes." It already makes me sick that the US passed that law.
"comparison in difference in talent" .. .i don't suppose you think you hold a candle to those e-athletes? Have you seen the koreans playing SC2 (another e-sport games). They can do hundreds of actions every min. How many can you do?
I doubt many current olympians can beat those e-athletes in their respective games too.
But guess what, you can cringe all you want but you are not the one who is making the decision, are you?
Are we going to make playing the piano a sport too?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
Comments
I agreed with your arguments but many here dispute simplification will lead to success. Clearly LoL is an example of that success, and your post points out the reasoning.
The question is ... can it be done also for pve? LoL does it for pvp with flying colors. But it also cut out all the pve. I suppose one can argue that D3, or ARPG in general, is the pve side of things.
Whether it should or should not be classified as MMO does not concern me. But i bet the trend of more convenient, and more focus gameplay will continue.
Though I often agree about Narius' posts being about the virtues of F2P. His comparison here does have merit as investors for games don't really look at or care about definitions of whether it's an Mmo or MOBA (unless it's from kickstarter). They look at numbers. Maybe a select few look to make a gamer's game but history has shown us otherwise.
Whether it's players, popularity, or revenue. They put their money where they perceive a return.
It's also a forum to discuss online games, of which LoL is listed on this site. Also, Mmo makers will see if more ppl are playing 'other' types of online games to help them decide what to implement in their Mmos (kinda like Blizz and their Titan project being delayed. Speculation yet cause for doubt).
I don't know if it "will continue" as much as it "already happened." Perhaps the only other place they can go to simplify at this point is to get rid of the players altogether somehow...it sounds absurd, but where else can developers go?
They can go deeper, of course. They can resurrect or recreate a lot of the richness that has been stripped out over the years. But as far as the convenience, speed and action angles are concerned, how much more convenient, speedy and action-heavy can we even get than what League of Legends and Diablo III offer now? It's a serious question.
A lot of how online gaming has developed is similar to how the porn industry has developed. Porn has never been more available and accessible. It has never been more distilled; gone are the days of watching a plot. These days, you can get to the action right away. It is also far cheaper to acquire today. As a result? The porn industry is in dire straits, trying to figure out what else to do to attract more viewers.
And the ones who are surviving are getting creative; more depth (in the aesthetic sense, not in 'another' sense...hehe) more soft core elements, more plot and production quality. The same may happen with MMOs.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Blizz is a good example. Just look at what games they fast-tracked? A online TCG, and a MOBA. I bet the MOBA is going to see the light of the day way before Titan.
The other one happening relatively soon is the D3 expansion. I would speculate that they are losing faith in traditional MMO, and may drastically change the design of titan.
I think everyone is looking at ESO and that would determine if there is still a market for traditional MMO.
It's a good point you make about RTS. One of the worst RTS games I played had to be Dawn of War II. I got it because I wanted a better Dawn of War...but what I got was a simplified Dawn of War that took out a lot of the nuance surrounding strategic points, base building, economics and units.
In short, it took the thing I liked (Dawn of War), and turned it into some slow playing Diablo clone. It's the same mistake the MMO publishers did with MMOs...turning them from one thing into a kind of action/adventure title with common areas and groups.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
None of what you just said made MMOs the fore front of online gaming. By the time TOR and GW2 released World of Tanks, Call of Duty and League were reigning champs in online gaming.
You don't seem to like innovation.
DoW2 is a great game. Well reviewed. Personally I like it much more than the same old ... build-fight Starcraft clone. A small tactics game with RPG elements is a breeze of fresh air.
I am glad they made that change.
The lesson I wish MMOs would learn from LoL is "It's better to do one thing and do it better than anyone else than try to be all things to all people. Know your core audience and give them what they want."
Too many games try to please everyone and as a result end up pleasing no one.
Your wrong. MOBA are literally RTS dumbed down to heroes. These games are point and click RTS games stripped of resource gather, unit command and building with a slapped on temporary leveling system. That's their roots not WoW. They have not "DNA" with WoW. They're not point in comparing the games one is persistent personal character RPG and this is a hero RTS pregenerated temporary heroes.
I am not so sure that they are losing faith, I think they are unsure of what needs to be next. They originally took the EQ model imo, and looked at ways to make it more casual/quick. Then, if anything new was coming out, that people were excited about, they adapted it to WoW.
They could take paying customers from WoW, and this makes them no more money in the short run...They could flop (yes, people don't want to think it can happen, but the voices have gotten louder with their more recent games from some)...
MOBA is hot right now, and it is pretty straight forward, as are TCGs, so better to focus your efforts where you know what you want to do. SoE restarted EQNext numerous times also, if Landmark looks like a hit, on its way to being its own thing and a companion to Next, then they may well try to do what they did with WoW. They could see where SoE isn't hitting a home run, or what they think are weak/missing areas and put out what they think is their new WoW....They could also go a completely different direction...I think they want to see how some of the current titles shake out, and probably work on art assets and things that can be used, no matter the direction they finally decide to go.
WoW has made them a ton of cash, I do not think they are going to give up on the MMO scene.
If by "pleasing no one" you mean "multiple millions more than the narrow-focus titles", you might be accurate.
Let's remember, damned few of Ye Olden Games of Yore Most Revered and Holy have ever pushed a half-mill. Ever.
The esteem we hold them in has little or nothing to do with commercial success.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
WoW is the only MMO to count itself its subs in "multiple millions" and I think it's an anomaly. Better to have a smaller but loyal audience than start with a slightly larger one but then lose most of them after a month or two and soon have to go F2P. I would be willing to bet that an MMO will never see 10 million subs again. That's just not the natural size of the market and new MMOs just hurt themselves a lot by trying to be the "WoW killer"
LoL is really good at the kind of team arena combat it does and has attracted tons of users by focusing on that. The current generation of MMOs could definitely learn something from that.
"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse
That is losing faith. They are no longer "sure" that MMORPG is needed to be next.
Yeh .. another interesting comparison.
... again showing that instanced, convenient pvp games are bigger than the biggest MMORPGs.
I've never got mobas, i've tried both LOL and DOTA2 - hell Valve have bombarded me with at least 20 keys for DOTA2. But I never saw the point to them.
I would rather play a competative match of DOW2 or something, which plays pretty similar, but at least the maps change.
Perhaps its a generational thing, are MOBAs the domain of cool young people or something?
But yeah they are more like a mash up of hero orientated RTS's like warcraft 3 and DOW 2 with elements of tower defence games and diablo. I dont see the wow similarity at all either
It is ok. You don't have to tens of millions of gamers that like something else, nor the pro e-sport athletes who devotes their life on the games.
Not everyone reads Jane Austin either.
Exactly this. Not to mention in a time when the market is flooded with generic quest hub grinders and failing to hold subs that games would diversify to fill other niches. Because at this point outside WoW most of these games have niche number anyways.
A fat, bald middle aged professional bowler is more of an athlete than an e-sport "athlete" ever will be.
BTW, World of Tanks claims to have around 70 million registered users, too, and had over 800k users playing at one time on the Russian servers. I have a feeling they probably make more money than LoL.
http://worldoftanks.eu/en/news/46/world-tanks-sets-new-guinness-world-record/
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I'm sure it's just a vocabulary issue - if it were called a 'competitors' visa, it would be more accurate. They deserve a visa for being involved in a competition, not because they are 'athletic'. Because they named the visa an 'athlete's' visa, likely before the computer was invented, it does not mean that the visa controls the definition of an 'athlete' for the future.
But that being said, would a e-sport "athlete" be more of an athlete than the bowler if he/she could also run marathons? Maybe they game on an exercise bike with ankle weights......
I will need a bullet to the head. Just the idea that they might even consider adding esports to the Olympics makes me cringe. There is not even a comparison in the difference in talent between a real athlete and one of these "eathletes." It already makes me sick that the US passed that law.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
It's kind of crazy the extent of which fan boys will go to get the point across that their favorite game at the moment is more popular than WoW.
I've played my fair share of MOBA's, and its very clear to anyone who plays them often. LoL is for the lesser skilled crowd(overall). It's easier to get into, easier to learn, a lot more forgiving when you're a new/bad player. DotA2/HoN are way more fast paced(HoN gameplay is actually 25% faster than DotA2's) with a much steeper learning curve. Faster pace, requires quicker reactions, requires strategizing differently to adapt. Now the top LoL players are different, they would be top players in HoN, or DotA2 simply because they're good. But on average, if you're new, you play LoL. Once you've learned it you move onto the adult games ie: DotA2 and HoN.
But back on topic... WoW has to be the most successful in terms of revenue generated of any game period. I would be surprised if a game has generated more than them. So many years at the top of the heap, and they still are.. It's crazy. No one has 1/10 of wow's current subs. FFXIV would be the closest game but I doubt even that is close.
So no, LoL is not more popular than WoW in terms of finance. In terms of being free and appealing to the young adults in this world? Probably. But it will NEVER make anywhere close to the amount of money WoW has produced for Blizzard.
"comparison in difference in talent" .. .i don't suppose you think you hold a candle to those e-athletes? Have you seen the koreans playing SC2 (another e-sport games). They can do hundreds of actions every min. How many can you do?
I doubt many current olympians can beat those e-athletes in their respective games too.
But guess what, you can cringe all you want but you are not the one who is making the decision, are you?
Are we going to make playing the piano a sport too?
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.