What doesn't work is games where player communication plays a major part in the "RPG" element. How can you roleplay without a keyboard?
That's slowly changing already. I know guilds that won't allow members to group up for group PvE/PvP if they don't have Teamspeak/Vent.
Oh yes, same in games like WoW. Fantastic immersion when the sexy night elf chick has the voice of a prepubescent male teenager. As I said, this will move the MMORPGs even more into "all what matters is to grind dungeons and get loot" mode, and less about being MMOs and RPGs.
Communicating via keyboard will always be there, however people are starting to communicate via voice software as it is easier. I prefer it.
How well does that play out to the role-player? I don't know, I don't RP.
At least you admit you don't know.
MMORPG's for me are all about building/customizing my character and skills and playing with/against others. Nothing to do with RP'ing.
Yet those games are still called mmoRPgs. The more time passes, the less this appelation is true. If they become nothing more than games driven by a controller with 6 buttons and without the need to interact with other players otherwise than to bash mobs, they won't be RPGs anymore at all.
As long as the console servers are separated from the PC servers, I couldn't care less. I just don't want the console crowd to invade games I play. A MMORPG which releases and shares the same servers between PC and console gamers will be a MMORPG I won't even try.
And EQ Next has never been announced on consoles yet. There have only been assumptions and theories by some gaming web sites, nothing more.
Originally posted by Edli Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by EdliHow so? Is just PS3 with a bit better hardware. PS3 didn't bring anything amazing to the MMO scene back then.
It has 16 times more ram. That will help a bit.With what? I have 16GB RAM. Big freaking deal.
And PS3 had 16 times more RAM than PS2. That didn't do anything for MMOs.
It'll allow devs to create larger worlds. Thats a good thing imo.
Originally posted by SilverchildWhats wrong with it?I play FFXIV and I enjoy the fact that I can play it, on my PC, with friends that own it on PS3.So far, its only been "we dont want console MMO, console has bad community".... thats it? No other reason?
No communication, and honestly the console players I have grouped with thus far, knew nothing about how to play and MMO and that trend started in Defiance, and is full on in FFXIV. There is a blatant difference between a PC group and a console.And hevaen forbid you try and tell them how to Dps (of all things, I tank my wife heals) properly. Never ending BS.So, no, I want nothing to do with a whole new crop of bads thank you very much.
I fail to see where that's different from the average PC bound MMO player.
You mean to say a PUG in PC only MMOs don't have the reputation of being a sure way to lose faith in humanity?
EDIT: And yeah, as far as the communication thing goes, on consoles it's done with headsets. Most any multiplayer game on console has it, for example Defiance gives you the choice to utilize area, group, team, and clan chat, all switchable with the down button on your gamepad (further controls under the social menu).
Only one that's not on by default is area.
The problem PC players might have with this is that voice chat is very far from the norm even still.
PUG is never best case scenario, everyone knows that...well except maybe console players because they have never had to deal with it. Until relatively recently.
However, at least when I run with people that have played and know what an MMO is, they at least know the basics of how to run a dungeon, again because MMO's are sort of geared towards teamwork on some level.
Again, and keep in mind, this is based of my experience. Not hearsay, my personal experience.
Also, and I love pointing this out, having communication available and actually utilizing it are two different things.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Agreed. I want nothing to do with a console in an MMO with me. Defiance and FFXIV have proven (to me anyway) they do not mix well. Give the consoles their own server, let PC have theirs.
Whats wrong with it?
I play FFXIV and I enjoy the fact that I can play it, on my PC, with friends that own it on PS3.
So far, its only been "we dont want console MMO, console has bad community".... thats it? No other reason?
My biggest gripe is communication. Since you mentioned FFXIV. Have you ran dungeons where no one talks? You try to give instructions and ask if everyone understood and get no answer? I tanked several dungeons in FFXIV and was wondering why I wasnt getting any responses. Then I remembered, I was with some that had the console version while I was on my PC and chatting is not as easy for console users as it is on PC.
Now thats not a reason to not make MMORPGs for console, nor is it a reason not to play one that is cross platformed. But it is a drawback if you want some organization in group content where every one has easy access to some form of communication with each other. Those little keypads for consoles suck. I know, I have one.
You can plug a keyboard into your ps3...
Thats what I did and I had no problem talking in parties.
Your experience is hearsay to everyone but yourself, you do realize that Hatefull?
And you are again describing an example condition that coincides the same as what one could ascribe to a console game or MMO. Playing consistently with a group of friends and people who you trust in.
You say run a dungeon? So your example is running a preset instanced play session. What Console games might have a similar experience players partake in frequently?
Oh yeah the Halo series for one, or Dead Space, Gears of War, and Left 4 Dead. Not abnormal for shooters to offer co-op.
RPGs? Somewhat less common, but you still had the likes of Fable, Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, Gauntlet, Phantasy Star, and random others.
And I hate repeating myself, whether or not people communicate is an issue regardless of platform. That's not any different.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
As long as the console servers are separated from the PC servers, I couldn't care less. I just don't want the console crowd to invade games I play. A MMORPG which releases and shares the same servers between PC and console gamers will be a MMORPG I won't even try.
And EQ Next has never been announced on consoles yet. There have only been assumptions and theories by some gaming web sites, nothing more.
Its the negative Nancy's like you who are so stuck in their Ultima Online days you don't realise the great potential here for mmo's to co-exist on the same servers for PC or console gamers. You folks need to get your head out of your asses and realise that games these days are being designed ground up to be played on either console or PC - even more so with the new generation of consoles coming out.
And if you think EQ Next wont be on PS4, you really need to wake up.
Prejudging someone because they play on a different platform is no better than disliking someone because of their skin color. Good luck in life. Though i dont see how far anyone could make it with such a close-minded outlook.
As long as the console servers are separated from the PC servers, I couldn't care less. I just don't want the console crowd to invade games I play. A MMORPG which releases and shares the same servers between PC and console gamers will be a MMORPG I won't even try.
And EQ Next has never been announced on consoles yet. There have only been assumptions and theories by some gaming web sites, nothing more.
Its the negative Nancy's like you who are so stuck in their Ultima Online days you don't realise the great potential here for mmo's to co-exist on the same servers for PC or console gamers.
Am I? I'm a big advocate of the progress MMORPGs have made since UO, actually. I've no clue of what you're talking about here.
You folks need to get your head out of your asses and realise that games these days are being designed ground up to be played on either console or PC - even more so with the new generation of consoles coming out.
Nice choice of word: EITHER. EITHER doesn't mean both have to be on the same servers. EITHER just means the game can be available for both platforms.
And if you think EQ Next wont be on PS4, you really need to wake up.
And if you think Sony is stupid enough to make the game be on the same servers for PC and Console, then you need to wake up. SoE does MMORPGs for like 15 years, they know both platforms are not compatible, and some stuff would advantage the PC gamers so much it would imbalance the whole game. Will there be a PS4 version of EQN? Most likely. Will it be on the same servers than the PC version? Most unlikely. SoE did stupid things, but they aren't stupid enough to introduce a major source of imbalance in their next major MMO release.
How well would a controler user fare against a mouse user in PvP, when the mouse user can turn in any direction in a fraction of a second, by a small move of his hand, with a precision superior to what any console controller can achieve? Those of you with some gaming history (aka those who didn't lie on their age in their profile), remember how it was when a keyboard turner fought a mouse user in games like Doom or Quake?
As long as the console servers are separated from the PC servers, I couldn't care less. I just don't want the console crowd to invade games I play. A MMORPG which releases and shares the same servers between PC and console gamers will be a MMORPG I won't even try.
And EQ Next has never been announced on consoles yet. There have only been assumptions and theories by some gaming web sites, nothing more.
Its the negative Nancy's like you who are so stuck in their Ultima Online days you don't realise the great potential here for mmo's to co-exist on the same servers for PC or console gamers.
Am I? I'm a big advocate of the progress MMORPGs have made since UO, actually. I've no clue of what you're talking about here.
You folks need to get your head out of your asses and realise that games these days are being designed ground up to be played on either console or PC - even more so with the new generation of consoles coming out.
Nice choice of word: EITHER. EITHER doesn't mean both have to be on the same servers. EITHER just means the game can be available for both platforms.
And if you think EQ Next wont be on PS4, you really need to wake up.
And if you think Sony is stupid enough to make the game be on the same servers for PC and Console, then you need to wake up. SoE does MMORPGs for like 15 years, they know both platforms are not compatible, and some stuff would advantage the PC gamers so much it would imbalance the whole game. Will there be a PS4 version of EQN? Most likely. Will it be on the same servers than the PC version? Most unlikely. SoE did stupid things, but they aren't stupid enough to introduce a major source of imbalance in their next major MMO release.
How well would a controler user fare against a mouse user in PvP, when the mouse user can turn in any direction in a fraction of a second, by a small move of his hand, with a precision superior to what any console controller can achieve? Those of you with some gaming history (aka those who didn't lie on their age in their profile), remember how it was when a keyboard turner fought a mouse user in games like Doom or Quake?
Who in the heck would play Doom or Quake without a mouse. Mice were pretty common place by the mid to late 80's never mind the mid 90's
Who in the heck would play Doom or Quake without a mouse. Mice were pretty common place by the mid to late 80's never mind the mid 90's
Some people had a hard time to adapt to mice, deeply stuck in the keyboard and joystick mentality. I remember handing them their virtual asses until they finally understood that a mouse was superior.
Anyway, good, then answer my question... how would a guy using a controller fare against a guy using the "doom/quake" mouse+keyboard combo in PvP in the same game? How could he compete against a person which can instantly turn his character in any direction in all three dimensions, with fantastic precision? And I only talk about a guy with a normal PC mouse, don't get me started on a guy with a gaming mouse.
The two platforms just are not compatible balance wise. It just does not work. Unless the console player uses his console like a PC, with a mouse. But how many do that? Console players play in their couch, they don't want to have to rely on something on a table. So if you mix both platforms, the console players will be at a disadvantage, and will complain, and trouble will start.
Originally posted by Deivos Your experience is hearsay to everyone but yourself, you do realize that Hatefull? And you are again describing an example condition that coincides the same as what one could ascribe to a console game or MMO. Playing consistently with a group of friends and people who you trust in. You say run a dungeon? So your example is running a preset instanced play session. What Console games might have a similar experience players partake in frequently? Oh yeah the Halo series for one, or Dead Space, Gears of War, and Left 4 Dead. Not abnormal for shooters to offer co-op.RPGs? Somewhat less common, but you still had the likes of Fable, Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, Gauntlet, Phantasy Star, and random others. And I hate repeating myself, whether or not people communicate is an issue regardless of platform. That's not any different.
You hate repeating yourself? Well don't then, I am not sure why you keep posting since you can't seem to make a point.
I get the it is hearsay to YOU, I understand that, no need to explain it, what I am describing is something that happened to me directly, I am relating it you and I pointed out the fact that it was my experience to illuminate the fact that it is not just something I heard.
So you can babble on about lord knows what you are trying to say, but it is irrelevant to me. I do not wish to share a server with console gamer's, because IN MY EXPERIENCE (see what I did there?) they are sub par in an MMO environment.
Good bye.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Originally posted by monochrome19 Originally posted by FalcomithOriginally posted by SilverchildOriginally posted by HatefullAgreed. I want nothing to do with a console in an MMO with me. Defiance and FFXIV have proven (to me anyway) they do not mix well. Give the consoles their own server, let PC have theirs.
Whats wrong with it?I play FFXIV and I enjoy the fact that I can play it, on my PC, with friends that own it on PS3.So far, its only been "we dont want console MMO, console has bad community".... thats it? No other reason?My biggest gripe is communication. Since you mentioned FFXIV. Have you ran dungeons where no one talks? You try to give instructions and ask if everyone understood and get no answer? I tanked several dungeons in FFXIV and was wondering why I wasnt getting any responses. Then I remembered, I was with some that had the console version while I was on my PC and chatting is not as easy for console users as it is on PC.Now thats not a reason to not make MMORPGs for console, nor is it a reason not to play one that is cross platformed. But it is a drawback if you want some organization in group content where every one has easy access to some form of communication with each other. Those little keypads for consoles suck. I know, I have one. You can plug a keyboard into your ps3...
Thats what I did and I had no problem talking in parties.
If more people did that it may change things, but as it stands, I would rather not play on the same server as consoles.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Originally posted by Neo_Viper Originally posted by laseritWho in the heck would play Doom or Quake without a mouse. Mice were pretty common place by the mid to late 80's never mind the mid 90's
Some people had a hard time to adapt to mice, deeply stuck in the keyboard and joystick mentality. I remember handing them their virtual asses until they finally understood that a mouse was superior.
Anyway, good, then answer my question... how would a guy using a controller fare against a guy using the "doom/quake" mouse+keyboard combo in PvP in the same game? How could he compete against a person which can instantly turn his character in any direction in all three dimensions, with fantastic precision? And I only talk about a guy with a normal PC mouse, don't get me started on a guy with a gaming mouse.
The two platforms just are not compatible balance wise. It just does not work. Unless the console player uses his console like a PC, with a mouse. But how many do that? Console players play in their couch, they don't want to have to rely on something on a table. So if you mix both platforms, the console players will be at a disadvantage, and will complain, and trouble will start.
Depends on the game. You make games that are better suited for various interfaces. I don't think one is superior to the other per se. The examples you give would favor a mouse, however I can give just as many examples where other interfaces would far exceed a mouse and keyboard.
Whether we can decide if this is dumbing down is very subjective since there are many genres where people play at an extremely competitive level using all types of interfaces.
Who in the heck would play Doom or Quake without a mouse. Mice were pretty common place by the mid to late 80's never mind the mid 90's
Some people had a hard time to adapt to mice, deeply stuck in the keyboard and joystick mentality. I remember handing them their virtual asses until they finally understood that a mouse was superior.
Anyway, good, then answer my question... how would a guy using a controller fare against a guy using the "doom/quake" mouse+keyboard combo in PvP in the same game? How could he compete against a person which can instantly turn his character in any direction in all three dimensions, with fantastic precision? And I only talk about a guy with a normal PC mouse, don't get me started on a guy with a gaming mouse.
The two platforms just are not compatible balance wise. It just does not work. Unless the console player uses his console like a PC, with a mouse. But how many do that? Console players play in their couch, they don't want to have to rely on something on a table. So if you mix both platforms, the console players will be at a disadvantage, and will complain, and trouble will start.
The only thing stopping player's from using a mouse and a keyboard on a console is game developer's not giving console player's that option in their game. Player's will use the best device available to them.
I've been playing around with an Oculus Rift and from it I can foresee the end of an era. Some will not like it and will stay with the old way, to which they will be at a disadvantage to those that adapt to the new technology.
Originally posted by laseritWho in the heck would play Doom or Quake without a mouse. Mice were pretty common place by the mid to late 80's never mind the mid 90's
Some people had a hard time to adapt to mice, deeply stuck in the keyboard and joystick mentality. I remember handing them their virtual asses until they finally understood that a mouse was superior.
Anyway, good, then answer my question... how would a guy using a controller fare against a guy using the "doom/quake" mouse+keyboard combo in PvP in the same game? How could he compete against a person which can instantly turn his character in any direction in all three dimensions, with fantastic precision? And I only talk about a guy with a normal PC mouse, don't get me started on a guy with a gaming mouse.
The two platforms just are not compatible balance wise. It just does not work. Unless the console player uses his console like a PC, with a mouse. But how many do that? Console players play in their couch, they don't want to have to rely on something on a table. So if you mix both platforms, the console players will be at a disadvantage, and will complain, and trouble will start.
Depends on the game. You make games that are better suited for various interfaces. I don't think one is superior to the other per se. The examples you give would favor a mouse, however I can give just as many examples where other interfaces would far exceed a mouse and keyboard.
Whether we can decide if this is dumbing down is very subjective since there are many genres where people play at an extremely competitive level using all types of interfaces.
Fact is, mice prevail in ANY video game genre except platform games since like 20 years ago.
And you can't compete with a controller when your opponent, equally skilled, is using a mouse. You just won't be able to react as fast as he will. It has nothing to do with personal skill, the console player isn't more "dumb" than the PC player, it's just the tool which is better adapted for the task at hand.
Originally posted by Neo_Viper Originally posted by FoomerangOriginally posted by Neo_ViperOriginally posted by laseritWho in the heck would play Doom or Quake without a mouse. Mice were pretty common place by the mid to late 80's never mind the mid 90's
Some people had a hard time to adapt to mice, deeply stuck in the keyboard and joystick mentality. I remember handing them their virtual asses until they finally understood that a mouse was superior.Anyway, good, then answer my question... how would a guy using a controller fare against a guy using the "doom/quake" mouse+keyboard combo in PvP in the same game? How could he compete against a person which can instantly turn his character in any direction in all three dimensions, with fantastic precision? And I only talk about a guy with a normal PC mouse, don't get me started on a guy with a gaming mouse.The two platforms just are not compatible balance wise. It just does not work. Unless the console player uses his console like a PC, with a mouse. But how many do that? Console players play in their couch, they don't want to have to rely on something on a table. So if you mix both platforms, the console players will be at a disadvantage, and will complain, and trouble will start.Depends on the game. You make games that are better suited for various interfaces. I don't think one is superior to the other per se. The examples you give would favor a mouse, however I can give just as many examples where other interfaces would far exceed a mouse and keyboard. Whether we can decide if this is dumbing down is very subjective since there are many genres where people play at an extremely competitive level using all types of interfaces.Fact is, mice prevail in ANY video game genre except platform games since like 20 years ago.
And you can't compete with a controller when your opponent, equally skilled, is using a mouse. You just won't be able to react as fast as he will. It has nothing to do with personal skill, the console player isn't more "dumb" than the PC player, it's just the tool which is better adapted for the task at hand.
Cool lets play Virtua Fighter 5. I'll bust out my V3 hori stick, and you can use a mouse. GG
Originally posted by laseritWho in the heck would play Doom or Quake without a mouse. Mice were pretty common place by the mid to late 80's never mind the mid 90's
Some people had a hard time to adapt to mice, deeply stuck in the keyboard and joystick mentality. I remember handing them their virtual asses until they finally understood that a mouse was superior.Anyway, good, then answer my question... how would a guy using a controller fare against a guy using the "doom/quake" mouse+keyboard combo in PvP in the same game? How could he compete against a person which can instantly turn his character in any direction in all three dimensions, with fantastic precision? And I only talk about a guy with a normal PC mouse, don't get me started on a guy with a gaming mouse.The two platforms just are not compatible balance wise. It just does not work. Unless the console player uses his console like a PC, with a mouse. But how many do that? Console players play in their couch, they don't want to have to rely on something on a table. So if you mix both platforms, the console players will be at a disadvantage, and will complain, and trouble will start.
Depends on the game. You make games that are better suited for various interfaces. I don't think one is superior to the other per se. The examples you give would favor a mouse, however I can give just as many examples where other interfaces would far exceed a mouse and keyboard. Whether we can decide if this is dumbing down is very subjective since there are many genres where people play at an extremely competitive level using all types of interfaces.
Fact is, mice prevail in ANY video game genre except platform games since like 20 years ago.
And you can't compete with a controller when your opponent, equally skilled, is using a mouse. You just won't be able to react as fast as he will. It has nothing to do with personal skill, the console player isn't more "dumb" than the PC player, it's just the tool which is better adapted for the task at hand.
Cool lets play Virtua Fighter 5. I'll bust out my V3 hori stick, and you can use a mouse. GG
Yeah, that's a 2D game... my bad, I should have said that instead of just "platform" games.
Come to me with your controller in any 3D game, and enjoy the spanking. And I won't brag about it, because the fight will be unfair from the start on. Quake, Doom, PS2, WoW, GW2, Unreal, Wolfenstein, etc... name the game, and mouse+keyboard is better than controller. Even in the recent FFXIV, and people are already complaining about it.
There's nothing wrong with that, you don't use a rake to dig a hole either when a shovel is a better tool.
You hate repeating yourself? Well don't then, I am not sure why you keep posting since you can't seem to make a point.
I get the it is hearsay to YOU, I understand that, no need to explain it, what I am describing is something that happened to me directly, I am relating it you and I pointed out the fact that it was my experience to illuminate the fact that it is not just something I heard.
So you can babble on about lord knows what you are trying to say, but it is irrelevant to me. I do not wish to share a server with console gamer's, because IN MY EXPERIENCE (see what I did there?) they are sub par in an MMO environment.
Good bye.
If you don't get what my point is when I say 'That experience is no different from that which you witness on PC.' then I think that rather amounts to a comprehension failure.
You can claim your experience, and I can note that there is plenty of 'experience' putting your example on nowhere but par for the course with online play in general, not console versus PC play.
What you experienced as an individual, remains your experience. If that was bad for you, then so be it.
It does not exclude those very same events from being inverted or a wash for others.
I can cite examples from many PC MMOs where I have witnessed poor communication, interaction and player skill.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Originally posted by Neo_Viper Yeah, that's a 2D game... my bad, I should have said that instead of just "platform" games.Come to me with your controller in any 3D game, and enjoy the spanking. And I won't brag about it, because the fight will be unfair from the start on. Quake, Doom, PS2, WoW, GW2, Unreal, Wolfenstein, etc... name the game, and mouse+keyboard is better than controller. Even in the recent FFXIV, and people are already complaining about it.There's nothing wrong with that, you don't use a rake to dig a hole either when a shovel is a better tool.
Yeah keep backpedaling til all you list are fps and tab target games hehe.
The only thing stopping player's from using a mouse and a keyboard on a console is game developer's not giving console player's that option in their game. Player's will use the best device available to them.
I've been playing around with an Oculus Rift and from it I can foresee the end of an era. Some will not like it and will stay with the old way, to which they will be at a disadvantage to those that adapt to the new technology.
I can't use the rift (monocular). T_T
It's an interesting system and it does feel like your vision can work more fluidly, meaning your ability to look around and subsequent awareness level can go up, but it still lacks peripheral depth which means your sight is still technically limited for the most part to what's in front of you at any given moment.
So step up, but not necessarily in a manner that outmodes other choices like a panoramic/multi monitor build.
Mostly I'm just angry I can't use the thing though (or I can, but it's kinda awkward at best). >_<
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Originally posted by Neo_Viper Yeah, that's a 2D game... my bad, I should have said that instead of just "platform" games.
Come to me with your controller in any 3D game, and enjoy the spanking. And I won't brag about it, because the fight will be unfair from the start on. Quake, Doom, PS2, WoW, GW2, Unreal, Wolfenstein, etc... name the game, and mouse+keyboard is better than controller. Even in the recent FFXIV, and people are already complaining about it.
There's nothing wrong with that, you don't use a rake to dig a hole either when a shovel is a better tool.
Yeah keep backpedaling til all you list are fps and tab target games hehe.
Its all good.
Who is backpedaling? Your tried to outsmart me with a specific example, and I actually said you were right... for that specific example, which is not a 3D game.
Give me a single 3D game where a controller would be better than a mouse to instantly turn to whatever direction you want, and we will talk again. Until then... well... think twice.
Even in GW2, a game which relies on very little different hotkeys during combat, and which could be played with a controller, a mouse is still vastly superior. It will be the same for EQN. Why? Because different tools are made for different jobs. And trying to mix them can only result in dumbing down the game to cater to the less efficient tool.
That's why I say: MMORPGs for consoles? Yep, why not. But put the controller users on specific servers, and the PC mouse+keyboard ones on other servers. They are not alike, they are not compatible, and the one will drag the others down.
The only thing stopping player's from using a mouse and a keyboard on a console is game developer's not giving console player's that option in their game. Player's will use the best device available to them.
I've been playing around with an Oculus Rift and from it I can foresee the end of an era. Some will not like it and will stay with the old way, to which they will be at a disadvantage to those that adapt to the new technology.
I can't use the rift (monocular). T_T
It's an interesting system and it does feel like your vision can work more fluidly, meaning your ability to look around and subsequent awareness level can go up, but it still lacks peripheral depth which means your sight is still technically limited for the most part to what's in front of you at any given moment.
So step up, but not necessarily in a manner that outmodes other choices like a panoramic/multi monitor build.
Mostly I'm just angry I can't use the thing though (or I can, but it's kinda awkward at best). >_<
Just like everything else, it will improve with time.
Remember when you lost that 20+ killing streak because you had forgotten to clean out the dust clods from your mechanical mouse.
Comments
Oh yes, same in games like WoW. Fantastic immersion when the sexy night elf chick has the voice of a prepubescent male teenager. As I said, this will move the MMORPGs even more into "all what matters is to grind dungeons and get loot" mode, and less about being MMOs and RPGs.
At least you admit you don't know.
Yet those games are still called mmoRPgs. The more time passes, the less this appelation is true. If they become nothing more than games driven by a controller with 6 buttons and without the need to interact with other players otherwise than to bash mobs, they won't be RPGs anymore at all.
My computer is better than yours.
With what? I have 16GB RAM. Big freaking deal.
And PS3 had 16 times more RAM than PS2. That didn't do anything for MMOs.
+1
With what? I have 16GB RAM. Big freaking deal.
And PS3 had 16 times more RAM than PS2. That didn't do anything for MMOs.
It'll allow devs to create larger worlds. Thats a good thing imo.
PUG is never best case scenario, everyone knows that...well except maybe console players because they have never had to deal with it. Until relatively recently.
However, at least when I run with people that have played and know what an MMO is, they at least know the basics of how to run a dungeon, again because MMO's are sort of geared towards teamwork on some level.
Again, and keep in mind, this is based of my experience. Not hearsay, my personal experience.
Also, and I love pointing this out, having communication available and actually utilizing it are two different things.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
You can plug a keyboard into your ps3...
Thats what I did and I had no problem talking in parties.
Your experience is hearsay to everyone but yourself, you do realize that Hatefull?
And you are again describing an example condition that coincides the same as what one could ascribe to a console game or MMO. Playing consistently with a group of friends and people who you trust in.
You say run a dungeon? So your example is running a preset instanced play session. What Console games might have a similar experience players partake in frequently?
Oh yeah the Halo series for one, or Dead Space, Gears of War, and Left 4 Dead. Not abnormal for shooters to offer co-op.
RPGs? Somewhat less common, but you still had the likes of Fable, Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, Gauntlet, Phantasy Star, and random others.
And I hate repeating myself, whether or not people communicate is an issue regardless of platform. That's not any different.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Its the negative Nancy's like you who are so stuck in their Ultima Online days you don't realise the great potential here for mmo's to co-exist on the same servers for PC or console gamers. You folks need to get your head out of your asses and realise that games these days are being designed ground up to be played on either console or PC - even more so with the new generation of consoles coming out.
And if you think EQ Next wont be on PS4, you really need to wake up.
PC gamers are terrible people in general.
Prejudging someone because they play on a different platform is no better than disliking someone because of their skin color. Good luck in life. Though i dont see how far anyone could make it with such a close-minded outlook.
Am I? I'm a big advocate of the progress MMORPGs have made since UO, actually. I've no clue of what you're talking about here.
Nice choice of word: EITHER. EITHER doesn't mean both have to be on the same servers. EITHER just means the game can be available for both platforms.
And if you think Sony is stupid enough to make the game be on the same servers for PC and Console, then you need to wake up. SoE does MMORPGs for like 15 years, they know both platforms are not compatible, and some stuff would advantage the PC gamers so much it would imbalance the whole game. Will there be a PS4 version of EQN? Most likely. Will it be on the same servers than the PC version? Most unlikely. SoE did stupid things, but they aren't stupid enough to introduce a major source of imbalance in their next major MMO release.
How well would a controler user fare against a mouse user in PvP, when the mouse user can turn in any direction in a fraction of a second, by a small move of his hand, with a precision superior to what any console controller can achieve? Those of you with some gaming history (aka those who didn't lie on their age in their profile), remember how it was when a keyboard turner fought a mouse user in games like Doom or Quake?
My computer is better than yours.
Who in the heck would play Doom or Quake without a mouse. Mice were pretty common place by the mid to late 80's never mind the mid 90's
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Some people had a hard time to adapt to mice, deeply stuck in the keyboard and joystick mentality. I remember handing them their virtual asses until they finally understood that a mouse was superior.
Anyway, good, then answer my question... how would a guy using a controller fare against a guy using the "doom/quake" mouse+keyboard combo in PvP in the same game? How could he compete against a person which can instantly turn his character in any direction in all three dimensions, with fantastic precision? And I only talk about a guy with a normal PC mouse, don't get me started on a guy with a gaming mouse.
The two platforms just are not compatible balance wise. It just does not work. Unless the console player uses his console like a PC, with a mouse. But how many do that? Console players play in their couch, they don't want to have to rely on something on a table. So if you mix both platforms, the console players will be at a disadvantage, and will complain, and trouble will start.
My computer is better than yours.
You hate repeating yourself? Well don't then, I am not sure why you keep posting since you can't seem to make a point.
I get the it is hearsay to YOU, I understand that, no need to explain it, what I am describing is something that happened to me directly, I am relating it you and I pointed out the fact that it was my experience to illuminate the fact that it is not just something I heard.
So you can babble on about lord knows what you are trying to say, but it is irrelevant to me. I do not wish to share a server with console gamer's, because IN MY EXPERIENCE (see what I did there?) they are sub par in an MMO environment.
Good bye.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
My biggest gripe is communication. Since you mentioned FFXIV. Have you ran dungeons where no one talks? You try to give instructions and ask if everyone understood and get no answer? I tanked several dungeons in FFXIV and was wondering why I wasnt getting any responses. Then I remembered, I was with some that had the console version while I was on my PC and chatting is not as easy for console users as it is on PC. Now thats not a reason to not make MMORPGs for console, nor is it a reason not to play one that is cross platformed. But it is a drawback if you want some organization in group content where every one has easy access to some form of communication with each other. Those little keypads for consoles suck. I know, I have one.
You can plug a keyboard into your ps3...
Thats what I did and I had no problem talking in parties.
If more people did that it may change things, but as it stands, I would rather not play on the same server as consoles.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Anyway, good, then answer my question... how would a guy using a controller fare against a guy using the "doom/quake" mouse+keyboard combo in PvP in the same game? How could he compete against a person which can instantly turn his character in any direction in all three dimensions, with fantastic precision? And I only talk about a guy with a normal PC mouse, don't get me started on a guy with a gaming mouse.
The two platforms just are not compatible balance wise. It just does not work. Unless the console player uses his console like a PC, with a mouse. But how many do that? Console players play in their couch, they don't want to have to rely on something on a table. So if you mix both platforms, the console players will be at a disadvantage, and will complain, and trouble will start.
Depends on the game. You make games that are better suited for various interfaces. I don't think one is superior to the other per se. The examples you give would favor a mouse, however I can give just as many examples where other interfaces would far exceed a mouse and keyboard.
Whether we can decide if this is dumbing down is very subjective since there are many genres where people play at an extremely competitive level using all types of interfaces.
The only thing stopping player's from using a mouse and a keyboard on a console is game developer's not giving console player's that option in their game. Player's will use the best device available to them.
I've been playing around with an Oculus Rift and from it I can foresee the end of an era. Some will not like it and will stay with the old way, to which they will be at a disadvantage to those that adapt to the new technology.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Fact is, mice prevail in ANY video game genre except platform games since like 20 years ago.
And you can't compete with a controller when your opponent, equally skilled, is using a mouse. You just won't be able to react as fast as he will. It has nothing to do with personal skill, the console player isn't more "dumb" than the PC player, it's just the tool which is better adapted for the task at hand.
My computer is better than yours.
Depends on the game. You make games that are better suited for various interfaces. I don't think one is superior to the other per se. The examples you give would favor a mouse, however I can give just as many examples where other interfaces would far exceed a mouse and keyboard. Whether we can decide if this is dumbing down is very subjective since there are many genres where people play at an extremely competitive level using all types of interfaces.
Fact is, mice prevail in ANY video game genre except platform games since like 20 years ago.
And you can't compete with a controller when your opponent, equally skilled, is using a mouse. You just won't be able to react as fast as he will. It has nothing to do with personal skill, the console player isn't more "dumb" than the PC player, it's just the tool which is better adapted for the task at hand.
Cool lets play Virtua Fighter 5. I'll bust out my V3 hori stick, and you can use a mouse. GG
Yeah, that's a 2D game... my bad, I should have said that instead of just "platform" games.
Come to me with your controller in any 3D game, and enjoy the spanking. And I won't brag about it, because the fight will be unfair from the start on. Quake, Doom, PS2, WoW, GW2, Unreal, Wolfenstein, etc... name the game, and mouse+keyboard is better than controller. Even in the recent FFXIV, and people are already complaining about it.
There's nothing wrong with that, you don't use a rake to dig a hole either when a shovel is a better tool.
My computer is better than yours.
If you don't get what my point is when I say 'That experience is no different from that which you witness on PC.' then I think that rather amounts to a comprehension failure.
You can claim your experience, and I can note that there is plenty of 'experience' putting your example on nowhere but par for the course with online play in general, not console versus PC play.
What you experienced as an individual, remains your experience. If that was bad for you, then so be it.
It does not exclude those very same events from being inverted or a wash for others.
I can cite examples from many PC MMOs where I have witnessed poor communication, interaction and player skill.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Yeah keep backpedaling til all you list are fps and tab target games hehe.
Its all good.
I can't use the rift (monocular). T_T
It's an interesting system and it does feel like your vision can work more fluidly, meaning your ability to look around and subsequent awareness level can go up, but it still lacks peripheral depth which means your sight is still technically limited for the most part to what's in front of you at any given moment.
So step up, but not necessarily in a manner that outmodes other choices like a panoramic/multi monitor build.
Mostly I'm just angry I can't use the thing though (or I can, but it's kinda awkward at best). >_<
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Who is backpedaling? Your tried to outsmart me with a specific example, and I actually said you were right... for that specific example, which is not a 3D game.
Give me a single 3D game where a controller would be better than a mouse to instantly turn to whatever direction you want, and we will talk again. Until then... well... think twice.
Even in GW2, a game which relies on very little different hotkeys during combat, and which could be played with a controller, a mouse is still vastly superior. It will be the same for EQN. Why? Because different tools are made for different jobs. And trying to mix them can only result in dumbing down the game to cater to the less efficient tool.
That's why I say: MMORPGs for consoles? Yep, why not. But put the controller users on specific servers, and the PC mouse+keyboard ones on other servers. They are not alike, they are not compatible, and the one will drag the others down.
My computer is better than yours.
Just like everything else, it will improve with time.
Remember when you lost that 20+ killing streak because you had forgotten to clean out the dust clods from your mechanical mouse.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee