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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: The Need for Respec

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,633MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

As it stands right now, there is much that is unknown about Elder Scrolls Online, including whether or not respecialization of skills will be an option. In our latest ESO column, we take a hypothetical look at classes, skills, and abilities and some potential issues if respec is -not- included. Read on before leaving your thoughts in the comments.

In the demos I have played for ESO, I had the chance to play the Templar, Dragon Knight, and Sorcerer. The last time I played the game I chose the Sorcerer class since I really like the idea that a caster type character can wear medium armor, swing a big two handed sword, and blast enemies from afar. All Elder Scrolls games feature something like this. One thing, however, that bothered me with Skyrim was my inability to go back and retrain my character. It took me a few attempts with early characters to really settle on something I enjoyed. I used my experiences in Skyrim to think about how Elder Scrolls Online will work.  

Read more of Garrett Fuller's Elder Scrolls Online: The Need for Respec.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
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Comments

  • ExiledTyrantExiledTyrant nowhere news, WYPosts: 69Member
    I always enjoyed your interviews and articles Garrett. Pures Vs Hybrids will definitely be a difficult thing to tackle especially in MMOs that have a lot of class options. That very same thing is cropping up in DDO now with pures being less desirable than splash classes. Looking very forward to the beta open or closed.

    "Do not speak to me of fate!" ~ A fairy tale for the Demon Lord

  • iJustWantiJustWant Somewhere, WAPosts: 81Member

    I don't recall ever needing a respec in the single player ES games. If I had always used a Sword, then wanted to start learning Axe, I just started using it. My Sword skill was still there; there was no skill cap, so no need to refund anything.

     

    When playing an MMO, I do prefer the option to respec, because game design changes over time, but I don't think I should be allowed to swap my Sword skill points for Axe skill points - I should have to go pick up an Axe.

     

     

     

     

     

     

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  • HellidolHellidol TACOMA, WAPosts: 405Member Uncommon

    I don't think that there is a need to respect if they don't go the typical route of leveling grind and make the leveling experience very fast, not take a month but more like two weeks.

    Leveling in a game shouldn't be anything other then a tutorial on how to play your character, after that it should be a experience of fun not grind. I really wish dev's in general would understand that if they focus more on content to make the player feel more invested and leave the idea of leveling to buy time to make more content that they would retain more and more players for the longevity of the game.

    Forcing players to do anything outside of a main story is making players lose interest in the game in. Those that want to go out side the main story should be rewarded but those that don't shouldn't be penalized.

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  • fayknaymfayknaym Washington, DCPosts: 125Member
    I think it will end up being a skill unlock system, where you can unlock the skills you want through quests or by using certain equipment types and then be able to swap them out at any time and the only skills you will be tied into are your class specific skills. That's what makes the most sense to me given what is known so far and I think it would fit the elder scrolls nicely.
  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by iJustWant

    I don't recall ever needing a respec in the single player ES games. If I had always used a Sword, then wanted to start learning Axe, I just started using it. My Sword skill was still there; there was no skill cap, so no need to refund anything.

     

    When playing an MMO, I do prefer the option to respec, because game design changes over time, but I don't think I should be allowed to swap my Sword skill points for Axe skill points - I should have to go pick up an Axe.

     

     

     

    The same can still be said for this game, if you want to go from 1h+shield with heavy armor to a spellslinging cloth wearer you can, the only thing that I can see you might need to respec is your point allocation in health/stam/magicka as you will be able to unlock most if not all available abilities through vet points, skyshards etc anyway

  • nezixnezix Eugene, ORPosts: 9Member

    As Deakon partially explained already (and is common knowledge if you're following ESO), you can already get all the skills in the game without making a new character (except the other class skills) so a respec isn't needed for most of what this article is about. However there are two areas that will probably have respecs available to them:

    1) Heatlth / Stamina / Magicka allocation from leveling.

    2) Ability morphs

    I'm pretty sure these will exist if they don't already.

  • superconductingsuperconducting Rochester, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon

    Garrett,

    Respecing was confirmed by Paul Sage at E3 interview.

    See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZpNe5iredw , time 20:33. Thanks

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  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member

    "Elder Scrolls Online only features four character classes, but each offers an almost infinite number of skill combinations"

    Complete BS.

    There is no actual freedom in ESO because your skills are LOCKED to the weapon type you have equiped. Its false freedom.

    You want to heal? Better have a HEALING STAFF equiped.

    You want to use fire spells? FIRE STAFF.

    Ice spells? FROST STAFF.

    Freedom would mean that I could cast ANY SPELL no matter the weapon and not be limtied to a set.

    They made it like this beacuse the developers are trapped in their MMO past with the same limits, the only thing they have learned is how to distort the truth more...which they MUST do to get those box sales...no non-MMO playing TES fan would touch this game knowing what is ACTUALLY there.

    Think about it, if you were FREE you wouldnt NEED TO RESPEC. It means there is a LIMIT...yet another thing NOT TES about TESO.

    And NO, there doesnt HAVE TO BE limits in MMOs. There is no point to them in a game they are SAYING IS CLASSLESS.

    Jesus, they cant even get their lies straight. Guess thats what happens when you are trying to trick both MMO players and SRPG players into getting your game, you have to lie about almost everything.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • ZandilZandil templestowePosts: 234Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nezix

    As Deakon partially explained already (and is common knowledge if you're following ESO), you can already get all the skills in the game without making a new character (except the other class skills) so a respec isn't needed for most of what this article is about. However there are two areas that will probably have respecs available to them:

    1) Heatlth / Stamina / Magicka allocation from leveling.

    2) Ability morphs

    I'm pretty sure these will exist if they don't already.

    ^ this, I'm not sure what the article is about really ? what nezix pointed out was confirmed some time ago.

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  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,280Member Uncommon

    I don't like respecing at all. It takes away my ability to be unique. I put a lot of work into my builds I hate it when someone says "I like that." then goes and does the same thing. 

     

    I've become a huge proponent of time based skill progression like EVE and Wushu. There is no magic button to push that completely changes your course. You have to put the time in.

     

    What sense does it make to be a master of fireballs, then later in the day a master of the backstab. 

     

     
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,280Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    "Elder Scrolls Online only features four character classes, but each offers an almost infinite number of skill combinations"

    Complete BS.

    There is no actual freedom in ESO because your skills are LOCKED to the weapon type you have equiped. Its false freedom.

    You want to heal? Better have a HEALING STAFF equiped.

    You want to use fire spells? FIRE STAFF.

    Ice spells? FROST STAFF.

    Freedom would mean that I could cast ANY SPELL no matter the weapon and not be limtied to a set.

    They made it like this beacuse the developers are trapped in their MMO past with the same limits, the only thing they have learned is how to distort the truth more...which they MUST do to get those box sales...no non-MMO playing TES fan would touch this game knowing what is ACTUALLY there.

    Think about it, if you were FREE you wouldnt NEED TO RESPEC. It means there is a LIMIT...yet another thing NOT TES about TESO.

    And NO, there doesnt HAVE TO BE limits in MMOs. There is no point to them in a game they are SAYING IS CLASSLESS.

    Jesus, they cant even get their lies straight. Guess thats what happens when you are trying to trick both MMO players and SRPG players into getting your game, you have to lie about almost everything.

     

    This makes me sad. I want to believe :(

  • Eol-Eol- houston, TXPosts: 274Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    "Elder Scrolls Online only features four character classes, but each offers an almost infinite number of skill combinations"

    Complete BS.

    There is no actual freedom in ESO because your skills are LOCKED to the weapon type you have equiped. Its false freedom.

    You want to heal? Better have a HEALING STAFF equiped.

    You want to use fire spells? FIRE STAFF.

    Ice spells? FROST STAFF.

    Freedom would mean that I could cast ANY SPELL no matter the weapon and not be limtied to a set.

    They made it like this beacuse the developers are trapped in their MMO past with the same limits, the only thing they have learned is how to distort the truth more...which they MUST do to get those box sales...no non-MMO playing TES fan would touch this game knowing what is ACTUALLY there.

    Think about it, if you were FREE you wouldnt NEED TO RESPEC. It means there is a LIMIT...yet another thing NOT TES about TESO.

    And NO, there doesnt HAVE TO BE limits in MMOs. There is no point to them in a game they are SAYING IS CLASSLESS.

    Jesus, they cant even get their lies straight. Guess thats what happens when you are trying to trick both MMO players and SRPG players into getting your game, you have to lie about almost everything.

    Almost every statement you made above is incorrect. The class skills can be used with any weapon - weapon skills and class skills are totally different. The Templar class has a whole healing tree, which can be used with any weapon. The dragonknight class has fire skills, usable with any weapon. Etc etc. And BTW they didn't make the weapon skills choices because they are 'trapped in their MMO past', they did it because if every skill was usable with every weapon, it would make weapon choice mainly a visual choice and with little playstyle difference, which would be very boring.

     

    Elladan - ESO (AD)
    Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
    Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
    Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
    Kili - WoW
    Eol - Lineage 2
    Camring - SWG
    Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by Eol-
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    "Elder Scrolls Online only features four character classes, but each offers an almost infinite number of skill combinations"

    Complete BS.

    There is no actual freedom in ESO because your skills are LOCKED to the weapon type you have equiped. Its false freedom.

    You want to heal? Better have a HEALING STAFF equiped.

    You want to use fire spells? FIRE STAFF.

    Ice spells? FROST STAFF.

    Freedom would mean that I could cast ANY SPELL no matter the weapon and not be limtied to a set.

    They made it like this beacuse the developers are trapped in their MMO past with the same limits, the only thing they have learned is how to distort the truth more...which they MUST do to get those box sales...no non-MMO playing TES fan would touch this game knowing what is ACTUALLY there.

    Think about it, if you were FREE you wouldnt NEED TO RESPEC. It means there is a LIMIT...yet another thing NOT TES about TESO.

    And NO, there doesnt HAVE TO BE limits in MMOs. There is no point to them in a game they are SAYING IS CLASSLESS.

    Jesus, they cant even get their lies straight. Guess thats what happens when you are trying to trick both MMO players and SRPG players into getting your game, you have to lie about almost everything.

    Almost every statement you made above is incorrect. The class skills can be used with any weapon - weapon skills and class skills are totally different. The Templar class has a whole healing tree, which can be used with any weapon. The dragonknight class has fire skills, usable with any weapon. Etc etc. And BTW they didn't make the weapon skills choices because they are 'trapped in their MMO past', they did it because if every skill was usable with every weapon, it would make weapon choice mainly a visual choice and with little playstyle difference, which would be very boring.

     

    This

     

    You can be a ranged spellslinger with a 2h sword if you want, you can get spells from lots of places that aren't tied to class or weapon (such as mages guild, fighters guild, undaunted guild, vampire, werewolf, soul magic, pvp, race etc) you don't need the staff equipped, but they did tie some spells (5) to each weapon type, because otherwise like Eol said, what would be the point in weapons outside of them being a stat stick?

  • BossalinieBossalinie Hattiesburg, MSPosts: 683Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I don't like respecing at all. It takes away my ability to be unique. I put a lot of work into my builds I hate it when someone says "I like that." then goes and does the same thing. 

     

    I've become a huge proponent of time based skill progression like EVE and Wushu. There is no magic button to push that completely changes your course. You have to put the time in.

     

    What sense does it make to be a master of fireballs, then later in the day a master of the backstab. 

     

     

    This mentality usually disappears when the devs hit your snowflake build with the nerf bat...

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Eol-
    Originally posted by jtcgs

    "Elder Scrolls Online only features four character classes, but each offers an almost infinite number of skill combinations"

    Complete BS.

    There is no actual freedom in ESO because your skills are LOCKED to the weapon type you have equiped. Its false freedom.

    You want to heal? Better have a HEALING STAFF equiped.

    You want to use fire spells? FIRE STAFF.

    Ice spells? FROST STAFF.

    Freedom would mean that I could cast ANY SPELL no matter the weapon and not be limtied to a set.

    They made it like this beacuse the developers are trapped in their MMO past with the same limits, the only thing they have learned is how to distort the truth more...which they MUST do to get those box sales...no non-MMO playing TES fan would touch this game knowing what is ACTUALLY there.

    Think about it, if you were FREE you wouldnt NEED TO RESPEC. It means there is a LIMIT...yet another thing NOT TES about TESO.

    And NO, there doesnt HAVE TO BE limits in MMOs. There is no point to them in a game they are SAYING IS CLASSLESS.

    Jesus, they cant even get their lies straight. Guess thats what happens when you are trying to trick both MMO players and SRPG players into getting your game, you have to lie about almost everything.

    Almost every statement you made above is incorrect. The class skills can be used with any weapon - weapon skills and class skills are totally different. The Templar class has a whole healing tree, which can be used with any weapon. The dragonknight class has fire skills, usable with any weapon. Etc etc. And BTW they didn't make the weapon skills choices because they are 'trapped in their MMO past', they did it because if every skill was usable with every weapon, it would make weapon choice mainly a visual choice and with little playstyle difference, which would be very boring.

     Dont BS me.

    Can I or can I not cast any and all spells in an ES game no matter what weapon I have equiped? Yes I can.

    Can I or can I not cast any and all spels in TESO? No I cannot. They are weapon based.

    Do both have classes? Yes

    Do both limit what you can or cannot do via classes? No, only TESO does because its trapped in the MMO past with its vast limitations.

    TESO does not have freedom, it has a false sense of it. A sense created by devlopers trying to make an MMO for MMO players and an multiplayer RPG for SRPG players and failing on both fronts.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • jtcgsjtcgs New Port Richey, ILPosts: 1,777Member
    Originally posted by Bossalinie
    Originally posted by bcbully

    I don't like respecing at all. It takes away my ability to be unique. I put a lot of work into my builds I hate it when someone says "I like that." then goes and does the same thing. 

     

    I've become a huge proponent of time based skill progression like EVE and Wushu. There is no magic button to push that completely changes your course. You have to put the time in.

     

    What sense does it make to be a master of fireballs, then later in the day a master of the backstab. 

    This mentality usually disappears when the devs hit your snowflake build with the nerf bat...

     Sure when the mentailty of the devs are stuck in the past making their future game. TESO shouldnt have classes with restrictions. It only does because the devlopers are not capable of thinking outside their old small box.

    “I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson

  • deakondeakon birminghamPosts: 583Member
    Originally posted by jtcgs

     Dont BS me.

    Can I or can I not cast any and all spells in an ES game no matter what weapon I have equiped? Yes I can.

    Can I or can I not cast any and all spels in TESO? No I cannot. They are weapon based.

    Do both have classes? Yes

    Do both limit what you can or cannot do via classes? No, only TESO does because its trapped in the MMO past with its vast limitations.

    TESO does not have freedom, it has a false sense of it. A sense created by devlopers trying to make an MMO for MMO players and an multiplayer RPG for SRPG players and failing on both fronts.

    You are restricted in ALL tes games, can you access more than 2 spells without pausing in skyrim (only 1 in oblivion)? Can you cast spells while holding a 2h weapon at all in skyrim?

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    The casuals need respecs incase they mess up but in my opinion respecs ruin replayability.  People should take the time to learn how to grow and build your character but I can see Zenimax adding respecs because they don't want to scare casuals away.
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  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon

    I think you only need 1 respec at max level, and respecs when large changes occur to the skills.  You could also have them when you finish 50+ campaigns if you do them.  

     

    Being able to choose whatever you want whenever you want makes choices less meaningful. By making people think about their choices and making those choices meaning something, those choices become a lot more interesting.  Also depending on how their skill system works in the final game, if you can continue to increase things post max I don't see the need for a respec, just go do the 50+ campaigns and level the things you want to.

  • OlgarkOlgark BostonPosts: 319Member Uncommon

    The reporter doesn't know much about the game he is writing about.

     

    You can respec things like Health, Magicka and  Stamina.

    You can also respec the abilities that you morph.

    As for skills there is not one single reason for them to be respeced as you can earn them all in the game. Make a mistake just go out and earn more exp and buy the one you wanted. The system is very much like The Secret World in that respect.

     

    There are no classes as such, there are 4 sets of 3 skill lines that have been grouped together and been given a name hence we have Nightblade, Templar, Dragon Knight and Sorcerer. Much like the single player games like Oblivion and Morrowind where you could spec into certain primary skill lines.

    As you adventure you can earn more skill lines and upon release there will be 50 you can find. Yes you can max them all out so no need for a respec.

    image

  • artemisentr4artemisentr4 fresno, CAPosts: 1,431Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by deakon
    Originally posted by jtcgs

     Dont BS me.

    Can I or can I not cast any and all spells in an ES game no matter what weapon I have equiped? Yes I can.

    Can I or can I not cast any and all spels in TESO? No I cannot. They are weapon based.

    Do both have classes? Yes

    Do both limit what you can or cannot do via classes? No, only TESO does because its trapped in the MMO past with its vast limitations.

    TESO does not have freedom, it has a false sense of it. A sense created by devlopers trying to make an MMO for MMO players and an multiplayer RPG for SRPG players and failing on both fronts.

    You are restricted in ALL tes games, can you access more than 2 spells without pausing in skyrim (only 1 in oblivion)? Can you cast spells while holding a 2h weapon at all in skyrim?

    ^^this

    Once you learn a skill in TESO, you can use it with any weapon. We don't know what the spells are in the Mages guild, but you know there will be basic fire spells, ice spells and shock spells. (it was said that you will have to find them while exploring also, so they will not just be given to you.) You could just use a destruction staff for spells, or learn a spell once you join the mages guild and cast it anytime you want with any weapon.

     

    I think there will be a lot more freedom in TESO as far as combat. I won't have to pause over and over to change my spell or weapon. And I can cast while using a 2H weapon or dual wielding or sword and board. You can see it in some of the game play videos. A player is dual wielding a sword and axe, then casts a lightning spell and continues with melee without having to do anything but select the skill.

     

    Only learning about 30% of your skills by level cap means there shouldn't be a need for a respec. You could mess up with magicka, stamina and health points, but you can adjust that with armor choice. I would like to just pick up a new weapon and use it to advance it. You want to pick up a restoration staff at level cap? Just start using it and gain points as well as advancing the skills.

    “How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
    R.A.Salvatore

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon
    This will be yet another test at how easymode ESO will be, if you get a free respec every week that's easymode. I really doubt this MMO is not going to go down that route, so expect to have to do some dailes or something to respec as much as you like.
  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    Very poor decision if no respec. Usually this spells they will introduce it because "very complicated" as paid service. And I always hated such tricks. If so they are losing points.
  • sunshadow21sunshadow21 Omaha, NEPosts: 354Member
    Im in the camp that doesn't see a major need for respecs for skills. It sounds very similar to TSW in that if you want to learn a new skill, you simply go out and learn that skill; the old skill will not be effected in any way, shape, or form. That's how it is in most ES games up to this point, I don't see why TESO would be any different. Respec of the base attributes I could see on a limited scope, but I still wouldn't want to see them made too easy or common; There does have to be some importance to the initial decision.
  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitPosts: 872Member
    The reason why in my experience that cookie cutter classes are more important than personal preference that happens to be different is due to abilities.

    I think the most important aspect to reward different paths is by making abilities different enough in action and look.

    For example in a lot of mmos its simple heal, interrupt, dodge, damage and damage mitigation. In such an mmo, abilities also barely stand out, and buffs are important indicators. The little square thats impossible to see above a health bar during a fight. Also in such in an mmo with dmg, heal, dmg mitigation etc as mebtioned, its simple mathematics of more dps vs health vs mana.

    What if the abilities were important enough, that if a person had s unique ability it changed the gameplay completely. I am not talking about interrupting key abilities.

    For example, an ability that casts a special shield that regenerates health when attacked. In such a circumstance a person would see that ability and realise they can not hit that person or regenerate their health and run and use line of sight tactics.

    I find that most mmos do not have abilities that are worth reacting to specifically. Its really just button mash to survive dps, out dpsing the other with some interrupts/cc. In that case, classes become cookie cutters, and very similar.

    Maybe it makes it easier for pvp, but in a game that you can essentially multi class per character, the reasoning is different. Then, therefore they should take advantage of that, and actually give unique abilities.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

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