Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

mmo RPG have we misunderstod it ??

124

Comments

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

     

    I guess it would depend on how engaging fish would be.   Could you get a boat, go out find different/rare fish, avoid/fight pirates, deal with weather, get new ships/maintain ships etc.  There are things you can do to make it fun.   Some people like just sitting on the shore to just fish as a hobby.  The point to some profession is that while few may be full time others may dabble especially if it counted as combat downtime and/or enjoyable.  

    Well, the question is how many will find fishing (or dabbling in fishing) enjoyable?

    Personally if i want to fish, i go out and do it for real.

    Finding rare fish - basically like a slot machine but instead of pulling the level, cast the line? No thanks.

    Fighting pirates - basically not a fishing game, but a fighting pirate game. Sure, bring it on, just cut the fishing part.

    Deal with weather - doing that enough in real life. I don't play games to be soak in rain.

    Get new ship/maintain ship - just for fishing? No thanks.

    Let me put it this way ... if all MMOs cut out fishing, i doubt i would even notice. So clearly, i am not the target audience. And the question remains, how big is the "fishing" audience?

     

     

    Shrugs some people would find that enjoyable.  I mean, I look at  the 7 quest type grind and say how that be enjoyable from game to game to game.  

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal

     

    I guess it would depend on how engaging fish would be.   Could you get a boat, go out find different/rare fish, avoid/fight pirates, deal with weather, get new ships/maintain ships etc.  There are things you can do to make it fun.   Some people like just sitting on the shore to just fish as a hobby.  The point to some profession is that while few may be full time others may dabble especially if it counted as combat downtime and/or enjoyable.  

    Well, the question is how many will find fishing (or dabbling in fishing) enjoyable?

    Personally if i want to fish, i go out and do it for real.

    Finding rare fish - basically like a slot machine but instead of pulling the level, cast the line? No thanks.

    Fighting pirates - basically not a fishing game, but a fighting pirate game. Sure, bring it on, just cut the fishing part.

    Deal with weather - doing that enough in real life. I don't play games to be soak in rain.

    Get new ship/maintain ship - just for fishing? No thanks.

    Let me put it this way ... if all MMOs cut out fishing, i doubt i would even notice. So clearly, i am not the target audience. And the question remains, how big is the "fishing" audience?

     

     

    Shrugs some people would find that enjoyable.  I mean, I look at  the 7 quest type grind and say how that be enjoyable from game to game to game.  

    Quest grind is not enjoyable (to me). Good combat is. Quests are just excuses to kill stuff.

    But again, sure, some people will find anything enjoyable. Even taking a 10 min boat ride repeatedly. The question is how big is that audience?

  • SteelhelmSteelhelm LahtiPosts: 44Member

    These are pretty good ideas. Only a fisherman can build fishing gear, but he needs wood from the timberjack or the carpenter and maybe some metal from the miner or blacksmith. So he sells fish at the market to get some gold to advance in his career and build better fishing gear and boats etc. he started only with a hook and line and a hand net. but some day maybe the expert fisherman is the only one who can lure out big seamonsters for the community to take on. others involved should also have some kind of proficiency in fishing or using boat. Same could be said for the timberjack, maybe he's the only one who can draw out those towering ents in the deep woods. the blacksmith or carpenter could make weapons from the creatures bones, the meat would last for weeks or even monts, tooths make exellent daggers etc. all the spoils would be equally shared among the participants, of course the expert fisherman who lured the monster in the first place would get a bigger share.

    When i think about boss loots in modern games, it just seems very unimaginative... you should get loads of stuff with lots to do/sell/craft for weeks, different level seamonsters yield different amounts of loot of course, sell meat to cook, bones to people who know how to craft those, decorate your house, make potions from the stomach liquids, make armor from scales, so much stuff...

    I feel playing a role is specializing in something others won't do. Most players probably are combat oriented and people can have different characters, but i think it would be meaningful to allow extra deep specialization that brings rewards no one else can acquire. this of course takes a lot of development. such a game should definitely need a casual side. Also I would want the game studios to meditate on the word MASSIVE heh...

    image
  • EriccomptonEriccompton Posts: 49Member Uncommon

    I would be interested to see a MMORPG with invisible quests and no "endgame" (flame away) , a game that combines the best elements from the best games and adds new ones.

     

    For example:

    Invisible quests; you walk into an area and see a bandit robbing someone, you help the victim and receive a lot of EXP and a little coin, or you help the bandit and receive a lot of coin and a little EXP. You help a farmer trying to keep wild animals out of his garden, you receive EXP, coin, maybe food, or a choice from those 3, or see a wanted poster and decide to bounty hunt, the point is YOU chose whether to help or not. No yellow ! over heads, no going to point A to get quests, you just happen upon ways to earn EXP, coin, etc. Possible interactions, not required ones.

     

    Possible elements:

     

    GW2- scaling areas, Pre-Lich King WoW-weapons that need to be skilled up, Combat like say Tera/ AoC/ or NW or even give the player their choice of combat style as an option, Heck, you could even add having kids and aging from The Sims, and when you die from old age (no rez for that lol) your kids become your Alts, inheriting your armor and weapons (no endgame) , that would certainly add some realism which is one of the main things missing today. The RPG aspect (realism and micromanagement ) is being lost in favor of simplifying for the masses and the endgame race.

     

    The point is giving you the choices on what you want to do, how you want to do it, instead of force feeding it to you.

    IMO GW2 has taken a step in the right direction with questing, it's still there but doesn't feel quite as tedious, we just need someone else to keep taking steps until you don't even feel like you're doing a quest.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Steelhelm

    I feel playing a role is specializing in something others won't do. Most players probably are combat oriented and people can have different characters, but i think it would be meaningful to allow extra deep specialization that brings rewards no one else can acquire. this of course takes a lot of development. such a game should definitely need a casual side. Also I would want the game studios to meditate on the word MASSIVE heh...

    I would much rather have fun than massive. Many MMOs are not massive anyway.

     

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,441Member Uncommon

    End game should have no part in a RPG because it is not part of the definition of role play unless you were truly playing the role of some famous person in the past such as Julius Caesar or Aristotle in which yes they did have an end.However games still not adhere to what role playing is,they still create simple tasks and reward you for them,.that is NOT what role playing is.

    If you were roleplaying in a true sense,every action and adventure would be new,not some prescribed code that has you move and follow in one direction of which none is your own role play.

    I think the main problem is one,these are predominantly assembly line games to make profit with no true feeling put into the game and two,developers simply don't have the skills to create a true RPG.

    The very first start to a RPG should be an eco system both for npc's and creatures/wildlife and harvesting.This should be well designed for long term before anything else happens in the design.Then after that there are certain areas of design that are a given and EVERY developer knows what these are.

    Reason why all these devs that know what to do are not doing it is "assembly line for profit gaming" lack of money/time restraints,or they are in a hurry because they have one gimmick they feel will be good enough to carry the game.

    IMO if a developer does not have the true passion,money and resources to make a TRIPLE A MMORPG,they should not be diluting the market,it only hurts the genre.


    Samoan Diamond

  • monochrome19monochrome19 Chicago, ILPosts: 453Member Uncommon

    Yes... Yes... Let the butthurt flow through you!

     

    Look, I don't have a problem with quest crafting this "wonderful," "intricate," story that takes you from zone to zone. But the reality is... they rarely do that. The ONLY time I've enjoyed questing is in FFXIV. Well, I wont say I enjoyed it 100% of the time, but it kept me intrigued at least when I wasn't enjoying it. If each quest had some awesome story instead of kill x amount of monsters I wouldn't care.

     

    And the other reason quest are important? You need a way to level. Assuming a game removes all quest from the game how will I progress? You NEED a way to progress, and quest are the easiest solution to that.

     

    If you can tell me how to remove quest and still make progression enjoyable I'll be all ears.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by monochrome19

    Yes... Yes... Let the butthurt flow through you!

     

    Look, I don't have a problem with quest crafting this "wonderful," "intricate," story that takes you from zone to zone. But the reality is... they rarely do that. The ONLY time I've enjoyed questing is in FFXIV. Well, I wont say I enjoyed it 100% of the time, but it kept me intrigued at least when I wasn't enjoying it. If each quest had some awesome story instead of kill x amount of monsters I wouldn't care.

     

    And the other reason quest are important? You need a way to level. Assuming a game removes all quest from the game how will I progress? You NEED a way to progress, and quest are the easiest solution to that.

     

    If you can tell me how to remove quest and still make progression enjoyable I'll be all ears.

    Its been explained and obvious ways but I doubt it would be enjoyable if the only way you can enjoy a game is to be run around by task masters.  

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by monochrome19

     

    And the other reason quest are important? You need a way to level. Assuming a game removes all quest from the game how will I progress? You NEED a way to progress, and quest are the easiest solution to that.

     

    If you can tell me how to remove quest and still make progression enjoyable I'll be all ears.

    You've been told twice. At this point the problem is that you simply don't want to acknowledge it. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • alterfenixalterfenix Bielsko-BialaPosts: 343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ender4

    The key is letting us do our own thing, not coming up with some goofy story based quests. Create a world for us to experience, not a bunch of quests that we do in the same way as everyone else.

    Also I find it really funny that you called Diablo an example of a RPG. The diablo series is just awful when it comes to story.

    This really. Even WoW is better as RPG despite storyline there is the only part that can be connected with RPG commonly understood by devs (best RPG is still about the story created by it's participants).

    Although I agree with op in general - too much about endgame, too much about playing "pro", fun is in fact the least important thing. Shame as I have heard that so many times in past few years and there seems to be quite of a group of ppl that would like to see game that is not as hardcore as Darkfall or EVE (i.e. player looting) yet is not as streamlined and easy as average theme park nowadays. But still no studio wants to pick up this topic for real.

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member
    Originally posted by monochrome19
    so... what can be done to "improve" quest?

     

    I think MMOs should save the term "quest" for things that are really part of the story line. A quest should be something epic. A quest is not killing some boars in a field. If you need to have that, at least call it a "job" or something similar. GW2's hearts are better than most games' quests because of this. Sure, it's just boring grinding but at least the game doesn't bore me with a long thing I don't want to read about why I have to kill the boars or make me run back to the quest giver after. This makes the actual quests that are in the game feel more special.

     

     

  • monochrome19monochrome19 Chicago, ILPosts: 453Member Uncommon
    The key word in that sentence was enjoyable and nothing said so far fits that bill.
  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member


    Originally posted by rafalex007
    hello.today i came here wondering, RPG : role playing game.RPG used to be about story adventure and going through this adventure, RPG like ELDER SROLLS , or diablo or witcher or any RPG out there, they are all out living the world doing anything you can find side quests, main quests, or just wondering around.But no in today's mmoRPG all we see is end game, everyone wants to know what about endgame, how main raid do i have or how many things is there to do, now while this is important and essential and i don't blame anyone for asking about it because it is important and you can couninue playing without it, but what about arriving to endgame!!!, how can i arrive to the point where i do have raiding or any endgame content?.quests are the key iits the adenture we go through to arrive to endgame, its living this world we are in helping people randome one but helping the world, but whille questing is some kind of boring i think with improving it, mmos could do something great could rise again.thanx for reading

    MMO should have no end, it should be about adventure and long journey through a fantasy world with difficult choise and fights or exploring solving difficult puzzle to get that treasures.

    MMO should never have shops or easy way to end it should be struggle but that should give satisfaction when you have worked so hard to get finally that robe or axe you wanted so much.

    This you still can get in solo games, but with mmo's forget it its all about GEEB NOW INSTANT OR ILL QUIT.
    Have fun with your today's mmo community i don't envy you:P

    MB:MSI Z97XPOWER AC
    CPU:Intell Icore7 4790k
    GPU:MSI 2x AMD 290X
    MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
    PSU:Corsair AX1200i
    OS:Windows 8.1 64bit)not yet sure i upgrade to windows 10 need to know alot more with integrated cloud and other maybe spy stuff)

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member

    Some like killing boars untill they DIE of old age some same with fishing at a pond untill they DIE of old age.

    Its up to companys to find out which group is largest and they make games accordenly.

    So we get WoW and all there boring clones and they evolve in to spoonfed monsters but thats what millions want.

    You can discuss whatever you want here on the forums untill you DIE of old age but the truth is millions want it ALL NOW.

    So im back to my old school solo gameplay with skyrim modded so its truly hardcore and make progress in month most of you guys prolly do in hour:P

    Hardcore:
    http://www.pocketplane.net/volothamp/chap10.htm

    MB:MSI Z97XPOWER AC
    CPU:Intell Icore7 4790k
    GPU:MSI 2x AMD 290X
    MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
    PSU:Corsair AX1200i
    OS:Windows 8.1 64bit)not yet sure i upgrade to windows 10 need to know alot more with integrated cloud and other maybe spy stuff)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Classicstar

    MMO should have no end,

    Says you.

    I finished their content and moved on all the time.

     

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    We haven't but in my opinion developers are the ones who have misunderstood what MMOs are supposed to be.
    30
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Classicstar

    MMO should have no end, it should be about adventure and long journey through a fantasy world with difficult choise and fights or exploring solving difficult puzzle to get that treasures.

    MMO should never have shops or easy way to end it should be struggle but that should give satisfaction when you have worked so hard to get finally that robe or axe you wanted so much.

    That cosmetic robe or axe, correct?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by monochrome19
    so... what can be done to "improve" quest?

     Get rid of the ridiculous quest GPS system.

     Take away the glowing/sparkly items so that questing isn't so easy mode.

     Take a page from what questing really is rather than kill 10 rats. Runescapes quests while very generic are very lengthy taking anywhere from 10 minutes to several hours to complete doing many things and usually ending on killing a monster in which most time will often kill you.

     

     The question isn't what we can do to improve the genre it's what we can do to get it off of the derailed course it's already on. Because these games are most certainly not RPGs.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • jesadjesad Posts: 753Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rafalex007

    hello.

    today i came here wondering, RPG : role playing game.

    RPG used to be about story adventure and going through this adventure, RPG like ELDER SROLLS , or diablo or witcher or any RPG out there, they are all out living the world doing anything you can find side quests, main quests, or just wondering around.

    But no in today's mmoRPG all we see is end game, everyone wants to know what about endgame, how main raid do i have or how many things is there to do, now while this is important and essential and i don't blame anyone for asking about it because it is important and you can couninue playing without it, but what about arriving to endgame!!!, how can i arrive to the point where i do have raiding or any endgame content?.

    quests are the key iits the adenture we go through to arrive to endgame, its living this world we are in helping people randome one but helping the world, but whille questing is some kind of boring i think with improving it, mmos could do something great could rise again.

    thanx for reading

    Of course I am responding before reading the entire string so pardon me if I am just repeating what someone else might have said, but the endgame problem in MMORPG's is not really the fault of the MMORPG as much as it is the fault of the MMORPG player.  From the earliest titles I can remember the people who came into the game and decided that the endgame content was more important than the entire rest of the game.  From the moment that started, right up until now, the genre was a bust to just about anyone who wanted anything more out of it than just powerlevelling and raiding.

    Developers have tried a lot of ways to make the games wider, but if you spend all of this money and develop all of this content, just to have some jerk college kid come in and convince everyone they meet that it is all worthless, you can't really blame the money man for saying "Screw all that, lets just give them what they want."

    So really, there is no real way to fix this problem in a genre that is based on level progression.  Because it is the wet dream of every kid to be able to streamline or jump over completely the most important steps towards actually becoming something great, and to just be able to become that something great.  And that is even if the great thing that they are going to become is really just another orc with the same armor, weapons, and skills as all the other orcs.

    What are ya gonna do ya know?

    image
  • rafalex007rafalex007 dubaiPosts: 244Member

    some people here have misunderstood what i wrote, EndGame should be there that is for sure, but the way to get to EndGame that's what was misunderstood, that's the adventure that should be improve, questing crafting etc ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

     

  • ThomasN7ThomasN7 87.18.7.148 1, NJPosts: 6,690Member
    Originally posted by rafalex007

    some people here have misunderstood what i wrote, EndGame should be there that is for sure, but the way to get to EndGame that's what was misunderstood, that's the adventure that should be improve, questing crafting etc ,,,,,,,,,,,,,

     

    I don't think mmos need an endgame whatsoever. Look at FFXI, it was 100% about the journey to the end with very little endgame content. It was one of the most successful mmos. Endgame is overrated.

    30
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

     The question isn't what we can do to improve the genre it's what we can do to get it off of the derailed course it's already on. Because these games are most certainly not RPGs.

    Nah .. the question is not how to change course .. but how to find what is fun.

    So what if these games are not RPGs. Borderland is not a pure RPG, but it is fun. I would much rather have a fun game, than something that fit some random dude's definition of RPGs.

     

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    A barrage of generic easy menial task that are rehashed from game to game is not fun to me. I rather grind on difficult mobs and I hate doinf that.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Classicstar

    MMO should have no end,

    Says you.

    One way to achieve that "no end" involves embracing the second half "RPG" of the acronym.

    But it's too expensive, and not for everyone, so we get throw-away video cartridges (more marketable) instead.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,940Member Uncommon

    It isn't that players "misunderstood" them, the developers stopped making them.

    All that is made now is shallow, disposable cash-shop fodder.

Sign In or Register to comment.