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[Preview] General: The End is Not Remotely Nigh

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Comments

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    As long as it's alive for me, I don't care if it's dead for you.
  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Cedar Springs, MIPosts: 754Member Uncommon

    From the Article....

    "The emergence of movies in the 1920s didn’t kill live theater. More people buying radios in the 1930s didn’t kill off the movie industry, nor did more people buying televisions in the 1950s. The invention of the computer and the emergence of the Internet hasn’t killed any of the entertainment mediums that came before it. Moreover, all of those things has, in decades of Cassandra-like hand wringing, been proclaimed again and again as the imminent killer of the written word. You tell me, how’s the publishing industry doing? Are people still reading? You bet they are, and in more convenient and inventive ways than ever."

    And these events also changed each of these genres, these things, forever. They were never the same again.

    It's not that the MMO Genre will die.... No it will not die...

    It is that the MMO Genre will change in ways we older fans do not want, or appreciate, or agree with. For many of us the MMO Genre HAS died... for us personally. I know several People in real life that used to play MMOs years ago, but they did not agree with the changes, or did not like the direction MMOs were going, so they quit. Good Players gone that helped make the genre special.

    The MMO Genre is not, nor will ever be, just software and servers, or just Investors dumping their money into it, or great gameplay and graphics. It is all these things plus something much more important.....it's also the Players themselves that make the MMO genre what it is. Without the Players the genre is meaningless. Anything that affects the Players affects the genre.

    That's why Changes to MMOs to attract different People than they did before feels like such a Personal Attack... because the business decision to change customer Bases by changing who is attracted to MMOs *IS* a Personal Attack.

    That's why for some of us the MMO genre Sky has fallen.

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Cedar Springs, MIPosts: 754Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    As long as it's alive for me, I don't care if it's dead for you.

    I do care if it's dead for you.

    I find it very troubling that you and others hold this attitude, this point of view. That is not a good indicator of the future of this genre OR our collective real life future either.

  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member

    OP you seems missing the point and not understand what some saying here.

    Offcorse when someone say mmo's are dead don't mean they are.

    If millions like mmo's with spoonfed gameplay and cookies plus shops you can buy your way to top thats fine but for me and few others mmo's are DEAD.

    Understand OP?

    New players keep comming and more and more playing becouse of easy acces through all kinds of devices and gameportals you can play games and mmo's.

    F2P is defenition of death to mmo's yes...but prolly not for millions who want meaningless spoonfed cash grabbing monsters comming into there lifes and grab there wallets or give them cookies without any sweat or achievement:p

    If i shout mmo's are dead there dead for me its THE END prolly not for you OP and many others fine by me have fun.

    For me yes:)

    Back to solo games which are alive and kicking for me:)

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  • battlesambattlesam Lantzville, BCPosts: 12Member

    The MMO surface has barely been scratched yet. When you boil it all down, EQ 1 - Next, DAoC, WOW, WAR, Conan, GW2, LotR - they're all the same game. MMOs have barely begun. We're still in the infancy stage, and one baby started to walk and fell over. 

     

    The reality of millions of humans connected via computers is the ultimate gaming environment. We've only just begun...

     
  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member

    "not everything on offer will be Tolstoy. Sometimes it’ll be Twilight."

     

    It's more like editing the writing  in "War and Peace" to appeal to fans of "Twilight". Not only that, but getting rid of all the unedited versions. I know that analogy overstates the difference but I'm not worried that there'll be no games called MMOs in the future. I'm worried that none of them will be things I want to play.

        

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,751Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by iridescence

    "not everything on offer will be Tolstoy. Sometimes it’ll be Twilight."

     

    It's more like editing the writing  in "War and Peace" to appeal to fans of "Twilight". Not only that, but getting rid of all the unedited versions. I know that analogy overstates the difference but I'm not worried that there'll be no games called MMOs in the future. I'm worried that none of them will be things I want to play.

        

    This is close to by main concern, if there is only meaningless crap to consume you are never going to realise that there could be something else. Those who never saw what we had before will assume you can only make MMOs this way. Not that I have a blinkered view of the past, some things about the old gameplay are better left in the past. As gamers have now been replaced by social media types as the market to go for I can see no way that players will end up addressing these issues. At least the solo players were gamers, they had a gaming ethos even if it was not the same as ours.

    We are moving into an era where gaming is going to be driven by the preferences of those who only game as an occasional pastime. I doubt it is going to be a bright future.

     

  • Dr_ShivinskiDr_Shivinski Seattle, WAPosts: 259Member Uncommon

    The problem with MMOs these days, in my opinion, is that developers are just making the game, and forgetting to make a world. In all the MMOs that most people seem to love, they felt immersed in a world, small things like npc chatter, day/night cycles, large zones to explore, etc... All of this created an experience that no other genre could provide.

    Nowadays it feels like we are all playing a lobby game waiting on our pvp/instance queue to pop whilst running circles in a player hub. I truly believe that if just one developer can go back to creating a world to play in, and not just a game to be put down after the first month, people would flock to it. 

    image

  • iJustWantiJustWant Somewhere, WAPosts: 81Member

    Changes to MMOs kill entertainment about as much as articles like this kill MMO forums.

     

    The emergence of this website, for example, did not deter other game-themed websites from forming.

     

    My analogy is more on-topic than you'd think.

     

    There are game websites (other than MMORPG.com) that scour the web for video game topics, and put those topics on their website solely to generate hits. They carefully wrap their meta data with proper search tags to ensure their websites show up while browsing gaming topics, but they don't offer anything that isn't available somewhere else.

     

    Similarly, there are video games that scour the pre-existing video game world for content, and put that content in their games solely to generate interest. They carefully craft their games' hype & advertising effort with keywords like Innovative and Unprecedented, but don't offer any gameplay that isn't available anywhere else.

     

    The biggest change to the gaming landscape is virtual reality. The nonsense we argue about today will be fodder for tomorrow's "old school gamer" arguments.

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scot
    Originally posted by iridescence

    "not everything on offer will be Tolstoy. Sometimes it’ll be Twilight."

     

     

    We are moving into an era where gaming is going to be driven by the preferences of those who only game as an occasional pastime. I doubt it is going to be a bright future.

     

    I agree, but think we've been in this mode for a number of years now, but the future still has a few bright spots on the horizon.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,970Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by 9reesracer9

    I think a similar entertainment analogy can be found in television...

    the expansion of premium (e.g. HBO, Showtime) and good cable networks (e.g. FX and AMC) was supposed to signal the end for the core networks...in America anyway. Instead, we have a significant increase in content that appeals to a wider audience, but also dilutes the participation (viewership) for most singular programs. 

    Now, we have those who still can watch decent quality television for (basically) free on the networks, and then another demographic that chooses to pay for expanded cable service (for those that want/wanted to watch Breaking Bad or Justified), and then another group that is willing to pay even more for the premium content (Game of Thrones, Homeland). 

    The MMO game industry is not terribly different in the current form. If you want to pay more, then you will have more options. This is the way the free-market system is supposed to work. Unfortunately, this kind of competition means quality products die (e.g. Glitch and Firefly).

    The MMO as a genre will not die anytime soon, but will continue to evolve based on the developers' ability to adapt to the desires of the audience they  seek to entice. 

    OK, let's talk about the entertainment/TV analogy.

    Say my favorite form of movie back in the day was "the Western".

    Now, when movies/TV were young, you could find westerns all over the place, much like early MMORPG's and their more realistic virtual worlds.

    But as time moved on, entertainment changed, and you would be hard pressed to find more than 1 or 2 western themed shows/movies in any given year.  If I really want to enjoy a lot of westerns, my only option is to back and watch all the old titles and shows, because there's no real modern option.

    The MMORPG industry is a lot like this.  More entertainment than ever before, but if I really want to play a MMORPG designed the way I like them, I have to go back and play a DAOC free shard set to 2003.  (which I've been doing the past 5 or 6 months now)

    No, the industry isn't dead, but MMORPG's with the game designs I favor died a long time ago, and yes, it actually was the entry of the more casual gamer into the marketplace that killed them off.

    Your not being paranoid if someone really is out to get you.

    image

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • jonp200jonp200 Veazie, MEPosts: 126Member Uncommon

    Good article!  

    Our hobby is changing to be sure.  More people are playing games than when I started to.  I like the mall analogy.  When shopping malls started appearing across america and more recently in Europe, people said it was the end of downtowns.  To a certain extent, this was true.  The traditional downtown stores died but more recently they have begun to flourish as merchants learned to deliver a differentiated shopping experience.  Also many failed to realize the malls attracted traffic that other merchants could advantage if they knew how to attract it; e,g did Wow attract more people to the genre.  sure it did.  Does one need to develop a new "Wow."  Absolutely not.. You need something different..

    Developers need to build a better experience.  They need to learn about what works and what doesn't and apply what is learned.  What does that look like?  I'm not sure.  I don't develop games for a living but if I did here's a few things that I would include:

    • A viable out-of-game tool/smartphone app (Wow's armory, Neverwinter's Portal)
    • Great guild tools - Lot's of room to excel here.  Not much innovation here
    • Flame me if you want but you need some form of LFG tool.
    • Think social..MMOs are a social experience.  That doesn't mean playing a solo game alongside a bunch of other people (SWTOR)  Find a way to make guilds, people, alliances relevant...

    Why am I excited about ESO?  See the list above.. They seem to be on it...

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  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Your not being paranoid if someone really is out to get you.

    image

    Shrug. The number of TV viewers who would prefer Westerns so strongly that nothing else could entice them to turn on their TV is so vanishingly small, TV producers will happily write them off and just move on.

    You can rope them in with the once-a-decade primetime reunion special, at least while a couple of the cast members are still alive. (Gunsmoke did theirs in '78)

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • mysticalunamysticaluna Scotia, NYPosts: 265Member Uncommon

    As a player of WoW, Eq1/2, Lotrs, SWToR, Vanguard, Tera, and previous player of FF11/SWG/DDO/STO, as well as betas of FF14ARR/Rift/STO, I can attest that the genre has gotten extremely stale. We don't even get anything exciting for game content updates anymore~

    You wait and wait, and then that anticipated update finally arrives, and its boring, some tiny little isle like WoW's timeless isle, or more raid content!! Whooo.... 

    Well, it isn't like they are to poor and incapable of giving us more, companies just won't give us more. We all love more tradeskill crafting recipes to have fun with, we all love more random fluff like world events, and silly little things or even accept copy/paste geography layouts with copy/pasted npcs.  It doesn't all have to be new artwork, it just has to be new dialogue and different quests! 

    Games come out with cool new features like WoW's scenarios, then abandon them as they make the gear outdated and worthless with Timeless Isle's easier to attain alt loot and new lfrs/raids for better gear! Release some awesome dungeons originally with an expansion, but then never bother to provide harder challenging ones with current equipment standards. Trivialize outdate all previous expansion content with every single game update patch release, so that all of the players move on to the "best shiny new thing" . 

    Now, we have the technology that we could combine WoW's flexible raids with Lord of the Rings Online skirmish 1,3, or full party system, with Everquest 2's scaling level content. We even have phasing on WoW to up population in zones, however what is the point of killing a world boss when the mounts are non-existant 1% or .025% drop rate, and the gear just got outdated by that brand new content update patch? 

    Everyone can't always rush off to the new expansion and leave the older ones deserted and empty ghost towns, that is what kills mmos right now. Only the current expansion is "relevant".  Only the newest content update is desired. 

    My boyfriend quit playing mmos because they are all the same stale, however I remain and will always continue to do so (especially since most games are free). 

     

  • mysticalunamysticaluna Scotia, NYPosts: 265Member Uncommon

    Oh yeah, best way to fix mmos? Allow us to make decisions that matter, don't give us the same exact lore outcome and the same exact reward if we choose evil vs light. Why can't we build our character to matter? On SWTorR you can't betray a jedi to be a sith, even though you're max darkness and you have destroyed countless lives, you are still a republic citizen and never join the empire. What gives there? 

    How about classes being different and not copy clones of each other? Sith abilities are far to close to Jedi ones. Smugglers, Troopers, Bounty Hunters, Imperial Agents... why is everyone so similar? Why are the ships the same? Why are there very few types of droids and everything is limited? In a mmo about outer space, we just want more variety, more more more... Of course, we can't expect the alien races Star Trek Online should have, but everything just feels homogenized and bland. 

    WoW never even gave us new hair styels barber choices for races, or unique racials that actually matter more, or unique class/racial quests that were removed long ago. 

    Everquest 2 made the racial traits so boring and homogenized, everyone has almost the same exact ones no matter what race you are. None of them really matter at all. 

    Starting Stats on Everquest 1 mattered originally, Dark Elves low in str but high in int, very hard to be a Dark Elf Tank for example, but now they don't matter. Any race is able to wear equipment to be max in every primary stat and most if not all stats, so much statistical power in fact, that they have to buy Alternate Advance point skills to increase their statistic caps. Even low level characters level 20 or 30 can attain enough equipment to max out their primary stat, thus your race means nothing. 

    Whatever happened to your race mattering? Why are all the classes on Rift and SWTOR so humanoid? We need more beastial, insectoid, purely alien or different races... more unique racial traits that are awesome cool , even if unbalanced (after all I'm a pve not pvp fan). More racial/class unique quests and dialogue choices that matter and give us different quest rewards/lore outcomes ! 

  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 770Member Uncommon

    Why answer a question no one is asking?  There were  decades of bad TV on and it never went away.  Same with MMO's.  The face my change, they will update, how we consume them may change, but I believe they will be there until the end of time at this point.

     

    One of the worst ideas for a write up I have seen in awhile.  honestly.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

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