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I was thinking of re-subbing and playing an old character

RekindleRekindle Moncton, NBPosts: 1,206Member

Then I logged on and saw that my toon had 4 hotbars full of abilities.  Then I remembered that I always felt eq2 had way too many abilities that needed to be managed. 

 

Is it just me or are there too many damn abilities and hotbar actions associated with that game?

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Comments

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    i dislike the number of skills but it's still a fun game for me
  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon

    And people wonder why EQ Next is going to 8 skills.


    EQ2 is definitely the MMO poster child for "more does not always mean better".


    My level 90 Bruiser also has around 4 or 5 hotbars of skills, most of which are only slightly different from 4 other skills.

  • RekindleRekindle Moncton, NBPosts: 1,206Member
    that might be a bit of a buzz kill for me actually. 
  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Learn to use macros. Most of my characters play using 2-3 buttons, with a single hotbar of situational skills. Even my beastlord which is supposed to be a complicated class only needs 5 macros.
  • laxielaxie PilsenPosts: 107Member Uncommon

    I actually quite like the number of skills. I guess it comes down to personal preference.

     

    The combat is quite different to say Guild Wars 2 for example, but both styles have something to them. In Guild Wars I like the dynamic dodging and positioning. Unless you are playing at the very top level, it is not that crucial to get the timing on your five skills right, while dodging has to be precise.

     

    In Everquest 2 I feel you have to know your skills better and chain them together more precisely to be effective. Some argue that this detracts you from the actual game world, which I agree with, but it is a nice little mini-game to me trying to master all the skills and the way they work together.

     

    Coming to your original question though, I think it's all about what you like. I've played so many different games and the ones I enjoy the most are the ones I've built a relationship with over the time. If you really enjoyed Everquest once upon a time, feel free to explore some new areas at a comfortable pace and chances are you might have a great time.

    There is so much choice these days that to me it seems it's not as much about the offered features anymore, but rather which game makes an impression as a whole. :)

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member


    Originally posted by evilastro
    Learn to use macros. Most of my characters play using 2-3 buttons, with a single hotbar of situational skills. Even my beastlord which is supposed to be a complicated class only needs 5 macros.

    Which just supports the point that a bunch of extra buttons does not add a bunch of extra fun. If the player base uses macros to combine the skills then there were too many skills in the first place. Combat should be more reactionary, not about pushing 10 buttons in the same order over and over. I'm worried about only 8 skills in EQN but games like WoW and EQ2 allow you to load too many skills at a time. Original EQ probably did it the right way, give you a lot of options but limit how many you can have active at any moment.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon

    I just love games with as many skills as possible... can bind and use up to 70 skills keybound with my combo of Naga mouse and orriginal G15 keyboard.... Its incredible for diverse gameplay..

     

     

    Even if that means i need to start a new character when i return to a game after two years of being absent...  Its worth the effort in my book... all those skills adding the realtime tactical layer i love so much.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    I just love games with as many skills as possible... can bind and use up to 70 skills keybound with my combo of Naga mouse and orriginal G15 keyboard.... Its incredible for diverse gameplay..  Even if that means i need to start a new character when i return to a game after two years of being absent...  Its worth the effort in my book... all those skills adding the realtime tactical layer i love so much.
    Real tactics would be finding new and interesting ways to use a limited amount of skills.


    Nothing tactical about having 6 attacks that do the exact same thing.


  • timtracktimtrack StockholmPosts: 414Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    I just love games with as many skills as possible... can bind and use up to 70 skills keybound with my combo of Naga mouse and orriginal G15 keyboard.... Its incredible for diverse gameplay..

     

     

     

    Even if that means i need to start a new character when i return to a game after two years of being absent...  Its worth the effort in my book... all those skills adding the realtime tactical layer i love so much.


    Real tactics would be finding new and interesting ways to use a limited amount of skills.

     


    Nothing tactical about having 6 attacks that do the exact same thing.

     

    So lets say you have 6 bleed attacks and 6 direct damage attacks... You can't find anything tactical about how to use them against your opponent?

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by timtrack
    Originally posted by Xiaoki   Originally posted by Lord.Bachus I just love games with as many skills as possible... can bind and use up to 70 skills keybound with my combo of Naga mouse and orriginal G15 keyboard.... Its incredible for diverse gameplay..       Even if that means i need to start a new character when i return to a game after two years of being absent...  Its worth the effort in my book... all those skills adding the realtime tactical layer i love so much.
    Real tactics would be finding new and interesting ways to use a limited amount of skills.   Nothing tactical about having 6 attacks that do the exact same thing.  
    So lets say you have 6 bleed attacks and 6 direct damage attacks... You can't find anything tactical about how to use them against your opponent?

    Why do you need 6 bleed attacks?

    Why not just 1?

    What is so important to your overall strategy and tactics that you NEED 6 different bleed attacks?

    Are you just spamming these 6 bleed attacks hoping to overwhelm or are you applying them in a set rotation based upon their cooldowns? By the way, neither of which describes tactical gameplay.


    But I guess it doesnt matter. The MMO genre as a whole is moving towards less and less buttons. The days of having 50+ hotkeys will be a thing of the past. Even SOE agrees.

  • TalemireTalemire Clearwater, FLPosts: 756Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

    And people wonder why EQ Next is going to 8 skills.


    EQ2 is definitely the MMO poster child for "more does not always mean better".


    My level 90 Bruiser also has around 4 or 5 hotbars of skills, most of which are only slightly different from 4 other skills.

    If EQN is only going to allow 8 skills, then why on earth have 40 or so different classes? It's like having a wedding cake right in front of you while only being allowed to have one slice of it.

    ------------------------------
    MMORPGs are great to look forward to after a hard day of work, but heaven is the ultimate reward for those who live Christ-like.

    image
  • flizzerflizzer Manchester, NHPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon
    Too many skills was the problem with Guild Wars.  I basically used the same skills all the time. Most of the skills were simply variations on a basic skill. Never saw need for so many.  I love how GW2 does it.  But, I suppose, this is all personal preference and many people love fooling around with a myriad of skills. 
  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,059Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    I just love games with as many skills as possible... can bind and use up to 70 skills keybound with my combo of Naga mouse and orriginal G15 keyboard.... Its incredible for diverse gameplay..

     

     

     

    Even if that means i need to start a new character when i return to a game after two years of being absent...  Its worth the effort in my book... all those skills adding the realtime tactical layer i love so much.


    Real tactics would be finding new and interesting ways to use a limited amount of skills.

     


    Nothing tactical about having 6 attacks that do the exact same thing.

     

    except that that isnt the case in EQ2.  There are big attacks, small attacks, high cost attacks, fast recharge attacks, buff attacks, debuff attacks, abilities to cast on others.

    For a lot of content playing whack-a-mole is fine, but order and situation definitely does matter.  And maximizing dps in EQ2 is probably tougher than any other mmorpg.

    I think its a bit overkill, but I think overkill is MUCH better than oversimplification.

  • timtracktimtrack StockholmPosts: 414Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by timtrack

    Originally posted by Xiaoki  

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus I just love games with as many skills as possible... can bind and use up to 70 skills keybound with my combo of Naga mouse and orriginal G15 keyboard.... Its incredible for diverse gameplay..       Even if that means i need to start a new character when i return to a game after two years of being absent...  Its worth the effort in my book... all those skills adding the realtime tactical layer i love so much.
    Real tactics would be finding new and interesting ways to use a limited amount of skills.   Nothing tactical about having 6 attacks that do the exact same thing.  
    So lets say you have 6 bleed attacks and 6 direct damage attacks... You can't find anything tactical about how to use them against your opponent?
    Why do you need 6 bleed attacks?

     

    Why not just 1?

    What is so important to your overall strategy and tactics that you NEED 6 different bleed attacks?

    Are you just spamming these 6 bleed attacks hoping to overwhelm or are you applying them in a set rotation based upon their cooldowns? By the way, neither of which describes tactical gameplay.


    But I guess it doesnt matter. The MMO genre as a whole is moving towards less and less buttons. The days of having 50+ hotkeys will be a thing of the past. Even SOE agrees.

     

    I'm not talking about why anyone needs anything. I'm just saying that with something as simple as 6 identical bleed attacks, and 6 identical direct damage attacks, there are allot of tactical choices that can be made from that alone.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon

    I think that crowd controllers, tanks and certain healers recognise how more skills add an extra tactical layer, if those skills are all different from eachother..

     

    however the majorrity of players is only interested in doing DPS, and they dont want to use skills that do less then optimal DPS, at that would ruin their numbers..

     

    making games with few skills turns every classes gameplay intoo a DPS type calss... and thats the opposite of the gameplay i like.. 

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • HedeonHedeon GraestedPosts: 954Member Uncommon
    always find this topic of "too many" skills weird. but am coloured I guess, EQ2 is the first MMO I played past a month, and am quite the opposite, feel like something is missing in other MMOs when only getting a handful skills....feels even more weird if only afew of the already low amount of skills is "worth" pushing - ofc there is alot of the abilities in EQ2 is rather useless.
  • bentrimbentrim Posts: 133Member Uncommon
    I went back after nearly 5 years. I must admit, there are a few things that I don't like, but the game is WORLDS beyond anything else out there right now. It reminded me why I love MMORPGs. Try it again...its WELL worth it!
  • RekindleRekindle Moncton, NBPosts: 1,206Member
    Originally posted by Hedeon
    always find this topic of "too many" skills weird. but am coloured I guess, EQ2 is the first MMO I played past a month, and am quite the opposite, feel like something is missing in other MMOs when only getting a handful skills....feels even more weird if only afew of the already low amount of skills is "worth" pushing - ofc there is alot of the abilities in EQ2 is rather useless.

     

    Do you seriously feel there is challenge to the skills in eq2?  If I set my hotbar up right I don't see why its not just a matter of pressing 1,2,3.....

     

    this is how it is at the lower levels anyway. I'm not sure what you consider challenging but I really do feel that "combat" is all about pressing those buttons in sequential order for each and every "fight" .  I don't understand how that is challenging.

     

    I know someone is gonna give a speech about how raid targets require some thought but how is anyone supposed to make it that far with all the button mashing in this game?

  • RekindleRekindle Moncton, NBPosts: 1,206Member
    Originally posted by bentrim
    I went back after nearly 5 years. I must admit, there are a few things that I don't like, but the game is WORLDS beyond anything else out there right now. It reminded me why I love MMORPGs. Try it again...its WELL worth it!

     

     

    trying to find a way to feel motivated for this.  I like pve potential for this game but i'm trying to understand how the combat is not boring and utterly repetitive button mashing affair....I know that sounds like im slighting the game but I really am not trying to do that.  The highest level I have ever obtained is in the 40s and ive come back a few times over the years.  After a while the combat puts me to sleep, some nights literally.

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    I think that crowd controllers, tanks and certain healers recognise how more skills add an extra tactical layer, if those skills are all different from eachother.. however the majorrity of players is only interested in doing DPS, and they dont want to use skills that do less then optimal DPS, at that would ruin their numbers.. making games with few skills turns every classes gameplay intoo a DPS type calss... and thats the opposite of the gameplay i like.. 
    Having a small hotkey selection does not turn everyone into a DPS class.


    The comic book MMOs(CoH, Champions, DCUO) do not have multiple hotbars and I had no problem tanking in any of them and they had no shortage of tactical gameplay.


    Also, you first sentence is made meaningless by EQ2. I tank on my Bruiser in EQ2 and I have around 50 skills and they are most definitely not all different from each other. Not even close.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Lord Bacchus, healers and tanks are no different in EQ2, both use supermacros. Healers additionally need to cure, but that's about it. Tanks sometimes need to use aggro snaps. Other than that you can use a single target macro, aoe macro, heal macro (If needed). UIs like profit would also make curing and single target heals super easy.

    My Fury (healer) had one macro for both DPS and heals. The only time I needed to press anything other than my supermacro was one of my two group cures. Or sometimes pact of the cheetah for super run speed.

    More skills does not make combat complicated. I hope EQN has more situational / adaptive / tactical skills rather than DPS filler.
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    I just love games with as many skills as possible... can bind and use up to 70 skills keybound with my combo of Naga mouse and orriginal G15 keyboard.... Its incredible for diverse gameplay..

     

     

     

    Even if that means i need to start a new character when i return to a game after two years of being absent...  Its worth the effort in my book... all those skills adding the realtime tactical layer i love so much.


    Real tactics would be finding new and interesting ways to use a limited amount of skills.

     


    Nothing tactical about having 6 attacks that do the exact same thing.

     

    Thats not tactical but strategical.... Tactical is real time addapting to a situation, preplanning is atrategical in nature

     

    Good games require both, most low number of skill games only have a strategical layer, while games like wow with less room to build your own unique character are mostly tactical in nature..

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Xiaoki   Originally posted by Lord.Bachus I just love games with as many skills as possible... can bind and use up to 70 skills keybound with my combo of Naga mouse and orriginal G15 keyboard.... Its incredible for diverse gameplay..       Even if that means i need to start a new character when i return to a game after two years of being absent...  Its worth the effort in my book... all those skills adding the realtime tactical layer i love so much.
    Real tactics would be finding new and interesting ways to use a limited amount of skills.   Nothing tactical about having 6 attacks that do the exact same thing.  
    Thats not tactical but strategical.... Tactical is real time addapting to a situation, preplanning is atrategical in nature

     

    Good games require both, most low number of skill games only have a strategical layer, while games like wow with less room to build your own unique character are mostly tactical in nature..



    Your definitions of Tactical and Strategic are confusing as is their application to the subject.


    Finding new and interesting ways to use a low number of skills is both tactical and strategic.

    Having a low number of skills means you will have to come up with interesting combinations before a battle but also adjust during the fight because you dont have 50+ skills that cover every base imaginable.


    In MMOs with a high number of skills the preplanning is putting every skill you have on your hotbars and your real time adaptation to battle is remembering what does what.

  • SoraksisSoraksis Havelock, NCPosts: 286Member Uncommon
    What really cracks me up is all through out these forums you see people bitching about games that you can run through mashing 1.2.3. and win.  So EQ2 brings out a boat load of skills so you cant just 123 your way through and people starting bitching about not being able to 123 through it lol.  It will never end and you people will never be happy.
  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,797Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rekindle

    Then I logged on and saw that my toon had 4 hotbars full of abilities.  Then I remembered that I always felt eq2 had way too many abilities that needed to be managed. 

     

    Is it just me or are there too many damn abilities and hotbar actions associated with that game?

    EQ2 is a hard game to pick back and after a break partially because of all those abilities.  Even playing the game several times a week I find switching to less played toons takes some time to get back in the swing of things.  I can get back into a game like GW2 almost instantly because of how much more simplified the combat system is.

    I like EQ2's combat system but it takes much more time to really get use to than other simpler games.  Not that having fewer abilities means it's a easier game.  TSW for instance is probably one of the deepest combat systems (even if the mechanics of combat is pretty dull) I have seen and it only has 8 active ability slots.

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