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[Column] Pathfinder Online: Checking in on PvP

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Comments

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,133Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jbombard

    I think player looting is fine in a PvP game.  However I don't think it is going to attract many people whose main activity is PvE.  People who are just there for PvE don't want to lose their hard earned gear to somebody participating in an activity they don't want anything to do with in the first place.  As long as Pathfinder is happy with limiting itself to PvP niche they will do fine, however if they try and sell themselves as a PvE game I think they will end up with a lot of dissatisfied players, and that can hurt the game and the community for everyone involved.

     

    I think if they:

    A. Have a really good, dynamic resource crafting system

    B. Items have perm decay

    Then the issue of pvp looting will not be a big deal. The problem in a lot of mmos is that gears became too powerful and exclusive. If gears were anything like that way it was in early SWG days (crafted, quality determined by the skill of the craftsman, and perm decaying) then PvE will have plenty to do without having to PvP.

    Making and selling things can be fun if it was designed properly.

  • LissylLissyl Peru, INPosts: 271Member Common
    I just hope this will keep the sandbox/full-pvp people from showing up to every PVE game that launches and demanding more PVP in those games.  It in no way whatsoever interests me, but I'm perfectly okay with that.  I hope it can show other companies that a future in more catered niche MMO's is just fine, and consequently I wish them the best of luck.
  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member
    Originally posted by furbans

    Your under the assumption that it's all about competition and ganking.

    It is my experience that any game where PKing is possible eventually degenerates into a PKing-dominated game.  That's not, in itself, a bad thing - not every game out there should be aimed at me and my sensistivities.  The frustrating part for the armchair developer in me is watching generation after generation repeating the same social experiment, seeming to expect different results.

  • loulakiloulaki PatrasPosts: 918Member
    2-3 years of excellent texts, nut no footage at all ...

    image

  • jdlamson75jdlamson75 Jacksonville, FLPosts: 984Member Uncommon
    Sounds pretty good.  Of course, so did that fart I let out earlier, and it ended up stinking like a sulfur factory.  I'm hoping PFO doesn't end up smelling like a sulfur factory.
  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Let's hope there's room for much more than just PvP. We don't need another MMO deathmatch like Darkfall.
  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Let's hope there's room for much more than just PvP. We don't need another MMO deathmatch like Darkfall.

    I guess you never played Darkfall 1.0 or 2.0 past the first few days of ganks you received and gave up :)

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • AzernoAzerno Acton, MAPosts: 23Member
    Good stuff. Been following PFO for a while. I hope goblin works sticks to their guns on the topics of PVP and "full loot" and does not cave to the very large care bear following the game has on its forums / kickstarter backers.
  • logan400klogan400k Owings Mills, MDPosts: 68Member Uncommon

    I think the single biggest problem with a system like this is that there is no incentive for other players to track criminals down and "punish them". Sure you kill me, take my stuff. You and your buddies gank newbies or whatever. If the game put a real bounty on you OR allowed a system where if the law caught you, your character ended up in jail with NO STUFF. That might be interesting.

    Second problem would be getting players to buy into the justice system. Criminal activity without an overall system of justice does not solve the grief issues. So let's balance the books a bit.

    Just My 2 Lunars

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,183Member Uncommon
    Their pvp design will kill this game is nothing else does.  Just not enough players out there that will put up with such a  design.
  • shantidevashantideva bongholmPosts: 186Member
    Yeah. Fuck it I'm going all in on this game.

    "Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day!"

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 530Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Their pvp design will kill this game is nothing else does.  Just not enough players out there that will put up with such a  design.

    For me D&D(and thus pathfinder) has always been about cooperative play, and thus it kind of makes me sad to see pathfinder online go in the PvP direction.

     

    That said, so long as they are clear to their customers as what kind of game it is, and they are realistic about how many players are going to be willing to play this kind of game, they will do fine.  If they oversell it or they are thinking that this kind of game has a huge market and mass appeal like the big themepark players, then they will most likely fail.  

     

    I think there very much is a market for the kind of game they are making, they just need to keep their expectations(and their budget) realistic.

  • MumboJumboMumboJumbo LondonPosts: 3,221Member
    Originally posted by jbombard
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Their pvp design will kill this game is nothing else does.  Just not enough players out there that will put up with such a  design.

    For me D&D(and thus pathfinder) has always been about cooperative play, and thus it kind of makes me sad to see pathfinder online go in the PvP direction.

     

    That said, so long as they are clear to their customers as what kind of game it is, and they are realistic about how many players are going to be willing to play this kind of game, they will do fine.  If they oversell it or they are thinking that this kind of game has a huge market and mass appeal like the big themepark players, then they will most likely fail.  

     

    I think there very much is a market for the kind of game they are making, they just need to keep their expectations(and their budget) realistic.

    Goblinworks are following exactly what you are saying. They're starting with a much much smaller game for a smaller audience and working from there. The range of roles hopefully provides plenty of non-pvp options but it seems to ensure the game is dynamic and gameplay packed, there will be a fair bit of pvp all over the map and not easy to avoid though not impossible for those players who like the non-pvp roles of eg crafter, builder, gatherer, monster hunter, dungeoneer etc.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,183Member Uncommon

    If you notice even Darkfall finally realized that they had to soften the pvp aspect to retain players.  Personally I spent 6 years in Felucca, so I know how these games work.  Unfortunately full loot open world pvp design just has too many issues to make a successful game with.  I have yet to see a ruleset that insures such.

    I know these guys are trying, but you can bet none of them has ever spent much time in such an environment.  The problem is all the players that will abuse the game, whether through cheating or other means.  Small companies just do not have the resources to combat such.

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    There is a large market out there for a in depth fantasy football version for eve.

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
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  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    There is a large market out there for a in depth fantasy football version for eve.

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • iridescenceiridescence Elliot Lake, ONPosts: 1,486Member
    Originally posted by Ozmodan

     

    I know these guys are trying, but you can bet none of them has ever spent much time in such an environment.  The problem is all the players that will abuse the game, whether through cheating or other means.  Small companies just do not have the resources to combat such.

    Dancey worked on EVE with CCP for years. I think he knows something about open world PvP in MMOs :)

     

  • Romulan78Romulan78 Tampa, FLPosts: 97Member
    Thank you Pathfinder Online. was looking at other games on kickstarter that dont shy away from PVP with consequences and real meaning but now after reading this article and the way looting is handled I am completely intrigued and about to make my pledge. Please do not go the carebear route there are plenty of those type of games out there already :)

    image

    Marksman/Bladedancer/Saboteur
  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon

    Sort of getting that old Asheron's Call feeling. I like it. I was used to the looting rules back then and this system sounds far more realistic and fair. In AC you could only loot dead players if you were flagged and pvp was very much about Monarchy wars (guilds) so it often was nigh impossible to even loot your kill without getting killed because Monarchy members would attack you and you could only loot one item at a time so multiple items too a long time.

     

    It flat out worked. Of course if you were solo hunting flagged you obviously were at a higher risk. This is simply realism in  a nutshell. All very fair because the players had great control over managing the impact of the system. It in fact was very fun and just like in Pathfinder Online you simply did have to take part (minus the full time pvp server). Pve servers in fact had a great deal of pvp going on ... all completely within the main world map and dungeons yet had nearly zero impact on you if not flagged.

    You stay sassy!

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