It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Originally posted by jbombard I think player looting is fine in a PvP game. However I don't think it is going to attract many people whose main activity is PvE. People who are just there for PvE don't want to lose their hard earned gear to somebody participating in an activity they don't want anything to do with in the first place. As long as Pathfinder is happy with limiting itself to PvP niche they will do fine, however if they try and sell themselves as a PvE game I think they will end up with a lot of dissatisfied players, and that can hurt the game and the community for everyone involved.
I think if they:
A. Have a really good, dynamic resource crafting system
B. Items have perm decay
Then the issue of pvp looting will not be a big deal. The problem in a lot of mmos is that gears became too powerful and exclusive. If gears were anything like that way it was in early SWG days (crafted, quality determined by the skill of the craftsman, and perm decaying) then PvE will have plenty to do without having to PvP.
Making and selling things can be fun if it was designed properly.
Originally posted by furbans Your under the assumption that it's all about competition and ganking.
It is my experience that any game where PKing is possible eventually degenerates into a PKing-dominated game. That's not, in itself, a bad thing - not every game out there should be aimed at me and my sensistivities. The frustrating part for the armchair developer in me is watching generation after generation repeating the same social experiment, seeming to expect different results.
Originally posted by tom_gore Let's hope there's room for much more than just PvP. We don't need another MMO deathmatch like Darkfall.
I guess you never played Darkfall 1.0 or 2.0 past the first few days of ganks you received and gave up
I think the single biggest problem with a system like this is that there is no incentive for other players to track criminals down and "punish them". Sure you kill me, take my stuff. You and your buddies gank newbies or whatever. If the game put a real bounty on you OR allowed a system where if the law caught you, your character ended up in jail with NO STUFF. That might be interesting.
Second problem would be getting players to buy into the justice system. Criminal activity without an overall system of justice does not solve the grief issues. So let's balance the books a bit.
Just My 2 Lunars
"Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day!"
Originally posted by Ozmodan Their pvp design will kill this game is nothing else does. Just not enough players out there that will put up with such a design.
For me D&D(and thus pathfinder) has always been about cooperative play, and thus it kind of makes me sad to see pathfinder online go in the PvP direction.
That said, so long as they are clear to their customers as what kind of game it is, and they are realistic about how many players are going to be willing to play this kind of game, they will do fine. If they oversell it or they are thinking that this kind of game has a huge market and mass appeal like the big themepark players, then they will most likely fail.
I think there very much is a market for the kind of game they are making, they just need to keep their expectations(and their budget) realistic.
Originally posted by jbombard Originally posted by Ozmodan Their pvp design will kill this game is nothing else does. Just not enough players out there that will put up with such a design.
Goblinworks are following exactly what you are saying. They're starting with a much much smaller game for a smaller audience and working from there. The range of roles hopefully provides plenty of non-pvp options but it seems to ensure the game is dynamic and gameplay packed, there will be a fair bit of pvp all over the map and not easy to avoid though not impossible for those players who like the non-pvp roles of eg crafter, builder, gatherer, monster hunter, dungeoneer etc.
If you notice even Darkfall finally realized that they had to soften the pvp aspect to retain players. Personally I spent 6 years in Felucca, so I know how these games work. Unfortunately full loot open world pvp design just has too many issues to make a successful game with. I have yet to see a ruleset that insures such.
I know these guys are trying, but you can bet none of them has ever spent much time in such an environment. The problem is all the players that will abuse the game, whether through cheating or other means. Small companies just do not have the resources to combat such.
Games:Currently playing:NothingWill play: Darkfall: Unholy WarsPast games:Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher DuminousXpiher's GW2GW 1 - Xpiher DuminousDarkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retiredAoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retiredWarhammer - Xpiher
Originally posted by Ozmodan I know these guys are trying, but you can bet none of them has ever spent much time in such an environment. The problem is all the players that will abuse the game, whether through cheating or other means. Small companies just do not have the resources to combat such.
Dancey worked on EVE with CCP for years. I think he knows something about open world PvP in MMOs
Sort of getting that old Asheron's Call feeling. I like it. I was used to the looting rules back then and this system sounds far more realistic and fair. In AC you could only loot dead players if you were flagged and pvp was very much about Monarchy wars (guilds) so it often was nigh impossible to even loot your kill without getting killed because Monarchy members would attack you and you could only loot one item at a time so multiple items too a long time.
It flat out worked. Of course if you were solo hunting flagged you obviously were at a higher risk. This is simply realism in a nutshell. All very fair because the players had great control over managing the impact of the system. It in fact was very fun and just like in Pathfinder Online you simply did have to take part (minus the full time pvp server). Pve servers in fact had a great deal of pvp going on ... all completely within the main world map and dungeons yet had nearly zero impact on you if not flagged.
You stay sassy!