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new Landmark screenshots on twitter

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  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,539Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sengi
    Originally posted by DMKano
    AAA MMOs today are in the $60,000,000+ range, and SoE doesnt have that budget for EQN anymore, they did 4 years ago, but not now. Why you ask?

    Because this its 3rd iteration, they've scrapped the 2 previous games completely and have gone way overbudget on this already, let's not even mention 4 years of wasted Dev time (and look at the Dev team at EQN, none of them are juniors - so all of them are top salaries)

    Why do you think they are releasing EQL as a game (with cash shop)? Remember that initially EQL was gonna be a toolset, but now SoE is making into a full blown game - $$$ cha-ching!

    To help fund EQN, and to help SoE get player made content - look at the size of the EQN team, its TINY - a major AAA game would have over 200 devs - they are running with a barebone crew, again due to spending so much money on the 2 previous versions they scrapped.

    So SoE currently doesn't have the $$ nor dev team to finish EQN, they need EQL to be successful and profitable, as otherwise EQN is in major trouble.

     

    I actually don't know much about EQNs budget and the size of the dev-team and I couldn't find much about it online. How big is the dev team? Where is your information from??

    I always assumed that SOE had written of the losses form the earlier attempts and gave  EQN a whole new big budget in 2012. Otherwise it would be an almost impossible task to produce a prestigious new game that set off to redefine the whole genre on the left over money from a previous failed project.

    There where some rumours about EQN being in trouble in 2011, but that was before the reboot of the project, and it is hard so tell how valid they are.

    Treat all I say as speculation - I can't talk about my sources but you can watch the reveal videos where they showed behind the close doors EQN area (including the art team on another floor)

    Pay particular attention to the size of the art team, that says it all.

     

  • SengiSengi HamburgPosts: 350Member
    Originally posted by DMKano

    ...Why aren't they working on EQN solely if they had all this cash, why reassign most devs to EQL? if what you are saying were true, this would not be the case.

    Why even have EQL? ...

    EQN and EQNL are basically the same game as I see it. EQNL is in some way the beta of EQN. It has most of the game mechanics in place, it only lacks the content. There won't be any features in EQNL that won't also be in EQN. It only has different rules.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,539Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sengi
    Originally posted by DMKano

    ...Why aren't they working on EQN solely if they had all this cash, why reassign most devs to EQL? if what you are saying were true, this would not be the case.

    Why even have EQL? ...

    EQN and EQNL are basically the same game as I see it. EQNL is in some way the beta of EQN. It has most of the game mechanics in place, it only lacks the content. There won't be any features in EQNL that won't also be in EQN. It only has different rules.

    Oh man, I don't see it like that at all.

    EQL - one crafting class, minecraft gameplay (gather and build)

    EQN - multiple classes and races and combat skills, parkour system, monsters and the highly touted next gen AI, armor and weapons, quests, huge dynamic events. 

     

    To me EQL and EQN are vastly different, EQL lacks over 90% of game systems that EQN will have. The only thing that the games share are the voxel based engine, the actual gameplay is minecraft vs. adventure MMORPG.

     

  • SengiSengi HamburgPosts: 350Member
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Treat all I say as speculation - I can't talk about my sources but you can watch the reveal videos where they showed behind the close doors EQN area (including the art team on another floor)

    Pay particular attention to the size of the art team, that says it all.

    Ok, then I will do so Mr. Julian Assange. ;)

    Do you mean this video? The video was staged and I would assume that there are actually more rooms in the SOE headquarters... And they probably have some things outsourced.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by DMKano

    EQL - one crafting class, minecraft gameplay (gather and build)

    EQN - multiple classes and races and combat skills, parkour system, monsters and the highly touted next gen AI, armor and weapons, quests, huge dynamic events. 

     

    To me EQL and EQN are vastly different, EQL lacks over 90% of game systems that EQN will have. The only thing that the games share are the voxel based engine, the actual gameplay is minecraft vs. adventure MMORPG.

    i agree but EQNL will be exploring other features too

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/398070/Landmark-summary-at-EQN-Junkies.html

    Landmark Future

    Systems from EQN will migrate to Landmark Example of Combat and PvP being developed in EQN and migrating to EQNL

    Movement System
    Same Parkour system as EQN
    Mounts will be available.
    Mounts will use the Parkour/Heroic movement system as well.

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by shass
    It's really good that these environments can be destroyed... they need to be. All the anticipation for a release that should appeal to seven year olds with a cheap tablet. It does bring a nice sense of nostalgia - graphics circa 1999 -

    image

     

    Seriously. I haven't seen a single screenshot or video of EQ:N where I felt in awe of the graphics. I mean, it looks functional. But nothing I'd make screenshots because I am so awed by what I see.

    For me, TESO and EQ:N represent the opposing extremes, TESO being way TOO realistic with only brown and grey tones like someone sucked out all colours; and EQ:N like WOW 2.o. I am REALLY not one touting into the horn of "WOW clone" usually. But sheesh. Why do so many games try to emulate the WOW cartoony style? Oh and spare me the "but it ages better" crap. top graphics from 2013 are supposed to be good enough to be good at least 5-6 years. Look at Age of Conan. I mean, what good does "ages better" do, when the graphics look 10 years old from the ge go!

    The textures are totally bland, I see zero atmosphere in there, total lack of detail. I can even live with the characters. But the landscapes are just horribad. I don't feel whelmed.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • SengiSengi HamburgPosts: 350Member
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Seriously. I haven't seen a single screenshot or video of EQ:N where I felt in awe of the graphics. I mean, it looks functional. But nothing I'd make screenshots because I am so awed by what I see.

    For me, TESO and EQ:N represent the opposing extremes, TESO being way TOO realistic with only brown and grey tones like someone sucked out all colours; and EQ:N like WOW 2.o. I am REALLY not one touting into the horn of "WOW clone" usually. But sheesh. Why do so many games try to emulate the WOW cartoony style? Oh and spare me the "but it ages better" crap. top graphics from 2013 are supposed to be good enough to be good at least 5-6 years. Look at Age of Conan. I mean, what good does "ages better" do, when the graphics look 10 years old from the ge go!

    The textures are totally bland, I see zero atmosphere in there, total lack of detail. I can even live with the characters. But the landscapes are just horribad. I don't feel whelmed.

     

    I don't see what is wrong with the landscapes. They look great. The VoxelFarm engine can do things that traditional graphics can't do. In other games you always see the same three boulders that repeat everywhere. With the VoxelFarm engine every hillside looks different.

     

    I think the reason why you are not blown away by the landscape jet is because they haven't shown us much jet. The landscapes we have seen so far where all kind of generic and offered no vies that go far into the landscape. You can see this far better in the demonstration videos for the engine.

    They also have to get rid of the cell-shading-effect the graphics in EQN have for some reason. Maybe this shall make it fit better with the cartoony characters. The engine doesn't suggest a cartoony style at all. The whole cartoon thing is EQNs idea.

     

    The castle was just build kind of sloppy and the wall texture is odd. Again the buildings in the videos for the engine took far better. I guess Dave Georgeson just wanted  to show that everyone could build something like that with no afford.

     

    The video features a flight over a mountain landscape. Please tell me how you can think that Tony the Tiger looks ok but this doesn't.

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member


    Seriously. I haven't seen a single screenshot or video of EQ:N where I felt in awe of the graphics. I mean, it looks functional. But nothing I'd make screenshots because I am so awed by what I see.

    This simply isn't important to me. Games with graphics that 'awe' me stop doing it after about 5 hours of gameplay. At that point I don't really pay attention to the graphics anymore because the gameplay is a million times more important. I'm also not going to judge a game by some random screenshots in the pre-alpha stage while they are still building the basic parts of the graphic engine.

  • HairysunHairysun none, OHPosts: 1,060Member

    WoW ...... at this point the only hope I have for the game is that it brings new ideas to the genera.  I can certainly respect the risks associated with the sandboxy direction they have taken.  I cannot however get past the  stylized art direction they chose. 

     

    Perhaps another company can take some of the good ideas and create a game geared more towards adults.

     

    ~Hairysun

     

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member


    Perhaps another company can take some of the good ideas and create a game geared more towards adults

    This statement suggests it would not be a game aimed at you. Seriously if you think this graphic style is meant for children you are just being silly. Judging a game off of a few pre alpha screenshots also suggests a lack of maturity.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by DMKano
    look at the size of the EQN team, its TINY - a major AAA game would have over 200 devs

    when has any SOE mmo had 200 devs?

    you claiming that SOE has never made a AAA mmo?

    Look at the EQ2 credits - more than 200 folks

    Also a AAA today and a AAA game 14 years ago are *vastly* different. 

    To get a AAA MMO done today it takes a much smaller team and less devs because games have gotten a lot more complex and technology is made easier to use, and the devs make a lot more today.

    So don't make a mistake that a major AAA can not be done with a small  dev team.

     

     

     fixed  ;)

  • georgatos7georgatos7 RPosts: 54Member
    Originally posted by Hairysun

    Perhaps another company can take some of the good ideas and create a game geared more towards adults.

     

    ~Hairysun

     

     

    This.

    People are getting bored of the unimmersive cartoony graphics in the same way that they are getting bored from the repeatable linear premade content.

    Too bad SOE failed to see that.

    And lets just don't hear again that ppl are still playing wow for the graphics... lol. Get your facts straight.

  • Vunak23Vunak23 In your house eatin'' your cookies, FLPosts: 635Member

    This is why we can't have nice things in the MMO genre and we are on Generic MMO #23. Seriously... They are giving us all kinds of super interesting systems and mechanics; they had to compromise on the graphics so people could actually run the damn thing. 

    Or would you all rather have FFXIV 1.0 again? Where they spend more on graphics than actually gameplay. 

    "In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  • vzerovvzerov taipeiPosts: 125Member
    Seriously, If no one told me its from eqn i would think its from wow. Someone said eq2's graphics are awful for today's standard, but i'd rather have an in game house with eq2's graphic instead of these things.... actually i wouldnt want to stay in the house at all if it will be looking like this.. even if the gameplay is good.
  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member


    Originally posted by Vunak23
    This is why we can't have nice things in the MMO genre and we are on Generic MMO #23. Seriously... They are giving us all kinds of super interesting systems and mechanics; they had to compromise on the graphics so people could actually run the damn thing. Or would you all rather have FFXIV 1.0 again? Where they spend more on graphics than actually gameplay. 


    Yep. They have given us so many great snippets of info about true next generation things they are trying to do with the game. Yet some people are saying I won't play because I didn't like the pre-alpha picture of the wall that someone that isn't even in the art design department drew with the alpha version of landmark. It is just silly.

  • StizzledStizzled Springfield, MOPosts: 1,264Member Uncommon

    Looks good to me, can't wait to get my hands on it. Personally, I think it's great that big-budget developers are starting to clue into the fact that games are about the gameplay and not the graphics. I'm sick of developers making sub-par games that seem to focus almost entirely on looking good.

    Graphic whores can look elsewhere, they won't be missed.


  • AderewAderew AthensPosts: 45Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by georgatos7

    This.

    People are getting bored of the unimmersive cartoony graphics in the same way that they are getting bored from the repeatable linear premade content.

    Too bad SOE failed to see that.

    And lets just don't hear again that ppl are still playing wow for the graphics... lol. Get your facts straight.

    Cartoony type of graphics tend to last a lot longer than ultra realism.

    Say SoE went the route of realistic graphics, that they really wanted to make EQN look beautiful with realistc characters, as soon as the next video card comes out and the photorealism can go up, what will end up happening is the game will instantly look dated.

    If you take as an example GTA IV and GTA V, i think that you will get the point. They said they want EQN to last many many years so you could say that this is a smart move.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AwDiddums
    Originally posted by Tierless

    I can honestly say I joked about the graphics but the 2 cartoony characters didn't REALLY annoy me. They weren't ideal but they were livable.

    But these look terribad. I am pretty turned off by them. Hopefully they will jack up the quality over the dev cycle.

    Now that sounds like someone without any vision or imagination, just like my wife. I took my wife to see an old rundown house, she saw an old rundown house, I saw Potential.

    It seems so many ppl have lost thier imaginations, Landmark has endless possibilties, yet some ppl are judging it by some screenshots!! For heavens sake get your hands dirty first before writing it off.

    I am really looking forward to trying my hand at this standalone EQ product, and I know many of my guild friends who play other MMO's are just as intrigued to see what they can do with it, alot of them already run Minecraft servers and are already dreaming up concepts to create.

     

     

    If people don't like the way the game looks, then it's a legitimate issue for them.  Not exactly kosher of you to deny them validity of their own tastes.  Normally, I would just say to heck with it and give it a try anyway, no matter how ugly it looks, but after so many years in World of Warcraft, the last thing I want is a look-alike game.  I want something fresh to look at on my gaming screen, so I've already written off both EQN and Wildstar and I'm anxiously awaiting Star Citizen and Archeage.

    image
  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon

    Everything is so big!

     

    So CHUNKY!

    You stay sassy!

  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aderew
    Originally posted by georgatos7

    This.

    People are getting bored of the unimmersive cartoony graphics in the same way that they are getting bored from the repeatable linear premade content.

    Too bad SOE failed to see that.

    And lets just don't hear again that ppl are still playing wow for the graphics... lol. Get your facts straight.

    Cartoony type of graphics tend to last a lot longer than ultra realism.

    Say SoE went the route of realistic graphics, that they really wanted to make EQN look beautiful with realistc characters, as soon as the next video card comes out and the photorealism can go up, what will end up happening is the game will instantly look dated.

    If you take as an example GTA IV and GTA V, i think that you will get the point. They said they want EQN to last many many years so you could say that this is a smart move.

    That is a false assumption.  No one had problems with SWG, despite its age, it was a great looking game that was realistic.  I'll take EQ2's dated realism over WoW's anyday.  Whether a game looks dated or not is all in the eyes of the beholder and no style has an edge in that regard.

    image
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,444Member Uncommon

    I don't want to rain on some good ideas but does it not look like everything is just an EQ2 update they thought they could turn into a new game adding in a couple new ideas?Don't the graphics still look like they were made in EQ2?

    There is the mention of architecture but all the pics show flat ceilings with the ONLY architecture being in the doorways but even those are really cheap because they have no moving doors.This is really a throwback to before even EQ2 was released ,so imo they are trying to pawn off old material with the added gimmicks of Voxel and some new emotes when travelling.

    Obviously it is still way too early,i have not given up hope because i was quite happy when EQ2 came out,i thought it was a great advancement in the 3D MMORPG genre but so far i am very skeptical on everything NEXT.

    So far for me at least Next is a lot of hype/talk but they have shown me nothing that makes me anticipate the game,it just has me on the fence.


    Samoan Diamond

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon

    Ok ask yourself this: how many times did you see the graphics of a MMO change CONSIDERABLY from beta to launch?

    I mean, honestly.

    I can't remember one single time.

     

    And we had this discussion 200 times, like "oh it's just beta, it will look better".

    No. It won't. And sorry I am a visual person, and I do not feel like gameplay trumps graphics. Can I haz actually both? Sorry, but at least I can't play a visually unappealing game, no matter now great the "gameplay" may be. If that were so we all still play text adventures!

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • BigdavoBigdavo BrisbanePosts: 2,065Member
    Yeah it's a bit cartoony, a bit chunky, a bit clean, and does remind one of WoW... so what's the problem? If they deliver on gameplay even people who don't like the graphics will give it a shot. If your complaint is on art-style... well now would be a good time to move on, it's not gonna suddenly look like AoC.

    O_o o_O

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Elikal

    Ok ask yourself this: how many times did you see the graphics of a MMO change CONSIDERABLY from beta to launch?

    I mean, honestly.

    I can't remember one single time.

     

    And we had this discussion 200 times, like "oh it's just beta, it will look better".

    No. It won't. And sorry I am a visual person, and I do not feel like gameplay trumps graphics. Can I haz actually both? Sorry, but at least I can't play a visually unappealing game, no matter now great the "gameplay" may be. If that were so we all still play text adventures!

    Well.. then i am really astonished that you have played MMOs at all. Because graphically they were all behind the cutting edge graphical single player games.. like any of the crysis games at their time.

    For me graphic is important, but not that much, that i would not play a game with unique or superior gameplay.. games like Minecraft, Dwarfen Fortress, Ultima Online(at their time) and other. But thats me.

    And for EQN.. it looks a lot better than Minecraft, and not really worse than any other recent MMO. Look, i always favoured games with a more seamless world over heavily instanced and limited (Age of Conan) just because of graphical reasons.

    Edit:

    And just a sidenote/question. Does EQN really look worst than Wildstar? Which do both have a similar graphical style? And although ESO is realistic, but does it look better? My answers to both are no, neither Wildstar looks better, nor ESO from a graphical standpoint.. of course you can always favor realistic over stylized, but that is a different question.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Galadourn

    I'm sure there are people at SOE laughing their asses out loud at all the educated posts by business gurus in these fora; SOE out of money for EQN? Are you serious man? This is their flagship and you think they would be short of money? They'll keep pumping as much as it takes till launch. And yes, Sony CAN PUMP AS MUCH AS IT TAKES.

    Now if it fails AFTER launch (I doubt it), that's another issue.

    SOE never pumped as much as other AAA mmo developer into their games.

    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by DMKano
    look at the size of the EQN team, its TINY - a major AAA game would have over 200 devs

    when has any SOE mmo had 200 devs?

    you claiming that SOE has never made a AAA mmo?

    Look, you have to differenciate. Games like WoW($200 million), SWTOR(above $200 million), GW2(above $100 million), and at the moment Wildstar (around $150 million) all have staff of 150 and more working on their titles.

    As much as i know no SOE game does have cost more than $60 million, with a staff below 100 ppl. Is a game with development cost of $50 million AAA? Most probably i would say, as all SOE games, although a lot of SOE games were cheaper than that. But it is nevertheless not the same as recent extremely high production value titles like the one listened above.

    I could have added ESO on that list, too. But i don't have any numbers for ESO, but i guess it is another $100 million + title.

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