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Help me understand. Why do you buy gold?

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  • KrimzinKrimzin Fort Worth, TXPosts: 545Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Aori
    Originally posted by Krimzin I can only speak from my own opinion. People who buy gold are typically people who have disposable income. Someone who has disposable income typically has a good job so it limits the time they can play. They still want to keep up but don't have the time to farm gold and raid. So they buy gold to save time. I get it and could care less if they do. They work for their money and should be able to spend it how they like. I would rather someone work and buy gold then to be unemployed and have massive amounts of gold. Gold Buyer > Deadbeat any day of the week. Again.. Just my opinion.
    Yes it is your opinion and it isn't correct. I've had contact with many people who squandered their real cash for money. Some failed to pay rent, some had to use savings, others had to "pawn" their account. I've even known people who were suits that got landed in to trouble from dumping 10s of thousands of dollars in virtual goods.

    Many people don't have the money to spend on it but like what it does for them.


    First off, How can my opinion be incorrect? Its my opinion. Get over yourself.

    As to my point.

    It doesn't matter if someone has a good job or not, poor judgment is poor judgment.
    If you make 10k a month and spend 9k on stupid shit, then your a fool.
    If you spend $20 here and there to buy gold, who cares. I spend $20 at lunch most days because I refuse to eat the garbage at most fast food places. Does that mean I have poor judgment.. no, it means that I watch what I eat and don't mind paying for it.

    What you are posting is a matter of semantics.

    You think your opinion is the only one that's right and everyone else is wrong.

    Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.


    It's an Orange thing
  • Dixi01Dixi01 Cupertino, CAPosts: 31Member Uncommon

    As long as a process of gaining gold in game can be automated by china farmers, they will offer it for sale, since there is a demand from players. Lots of reasons to buy some gold already listed on previous pages.

    One of hard ways to disable all gold sellers completely I saw only in FireFall. There is no player to player trade at all, nor in game mail. Another way to fight gold sellers is when game developers provide a way to buy gold or something tradeable in game (usually game time or some reroll/respec scrolls) official way, for real money. That limit gold sellers prices but do not shut down them completely.

    I would like to see MMO games without gold farmers and scammers, but I afraid it's hardly achievable, until someone invents a way to get rid of them without hurting a game.

  • KrimzinKrimzin Fort Worth, TXPosts: 545Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Dixi01
    As long as a process of gaining gold in game can be automated by china farmers, they will offer it for sale, since there is a demand from players. Lots of reasons to buy some gold already listed on previous pages.One of hard ways to disable all gold sellers completely I saw only in FireFall. There is no player to player trade at all, nor in game mail. Another way to fight gold sellers is when game developers provide a way to buy gold or something tradeable in game (usually game time or some reroll/respec scrolls) official way, for real money. That limit gold sellers prices but do not shut down them completely.I would like to see MMO games without gold farmers and scammers, but I afraid it's hardly achievable, until someone invents a way to get rid of them without hurting a game.

    When you take out the ability to trade with players, you make it feel like a single player game. Part of any MMO is the economy. Being able to farm items, make items and sell items for gold is a driving force to all MMOs. If you couldn't do any of those things, you would have almost nothing to do.

    Sony had the best solution, make all things including characters sellable through their website. It virtually eliminated gold sellers in their games. In Vanguard, You could post your character for sale, Sony would move the character from your account to the buyers account and the deal was done. No Scamming, No hacking...just straight commerce.

    Gold Sellers are greedy. If a player has the ability to farm and sell gold to other players legitimately, they will undercut a gold seller everyday of the week. Its been proven in Vanguard and other sony games.

    Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.


    It's an Orange thing
  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    BUY GOLD

    -never have

    -never will

    -report every gold spammer I can

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Dixi01

    As long as a process of gaining gold in game can be automated by china farmers, they will offer it for sale, since there is a demand from players. Lots of reasons to buy some gold already listed on previous pages.

    One of hard ways to disable all gold sellers completely I saw only in FireFall. There is no player to player trade at all, nor in game mail. Another way to fight gold sellers is when game developers provide a way to buy gold or something tradeable in game (usually game time or some reroll/respec scrolls) official way, for real money. That limit gold sellers prices but do not shut down them completely.

    I would like to see MMO games without gold farmers and scammers, but I afraid it's hardly achievable, until someone invents a way to get rid of them without hurting a game.

    The best way of getting rid of chinese gold sellers is to have a cash shop that sells currency. No one can compete with the devs who can create gold at will.

    Just price the chinese gold sellers out of the market.

     

  • WereLlamaWereLlama Lubbock, TXPosts: 243Member

    Sometimes, I prefer to occasionally play MMOs like a Pharaoh of old.

    I reward little trinkets (real money) to hundreds of peasants (players with lots of free time and no income) and they do all the boring grind work for me.   They will run back breathing heavy, exhausted, and drop a few bags of hard earned items at my feet.

    I might occasionally pat them on the head and offer them a small piece of wisdom, like "You can be like me if you keep working hard".   

    Think of it as emergent gameplay.

    -WL

  • bstrippbstripp Crystal Lake, ILPosts: 241Member

    I'll answer the OP:

    "Because spending additional funds ill increase the enjoyment of what I am doing in game."

    Take any other reasons out of it because that sums it all up.  You are playing a game and people who buy additional resources; be they currency, cash shop items, subscription fees, VIP packages, account unlocks, or whatever, do so because it makes them enjoy their entertainment more.

    The reasons they do differ from person to person.

    *  RPers might want costumes to pimp their look

    * PVPers might want to skip the level grind

    * PVEers might be looking to mix/max their stats to catch up with friends to raid with them

    * Someone may have inadequecy issues and just wants to show off

    The reason doesn't matter.  They do so because it makes the game, and hence their time, more enjoyable.  If the game is free to play, any money you spend is usually avoiding some kind of grind.  To me it doesn't really matter as you are trading time for money regardless of who you are paying.  Sure there are exceptions, but not many.

  • qombiqombi Unknown, LAPosts: 1,180Member
    Originally posted by TangentPoint

    Impatience to have or attain "things", and/or a need to be competitive or superior to other players as soon as possible, is typically the motivation behind it in my experience.

    I've seen and discussed a lot of different explanations, excuses and rationalizations for it, but many of them only work if you look at them superficially. The moment you start thinking about what's being said, and the implications behind it (sometimes those implications are spelled out as well, making it easier to connect the dots), the picture becomes clearer. Again, in every case, it's boiled down to impatience or that need to be competitive.

    The "more money than time" argument comes up a lot. It surely works great as a personal rationalization of why it's "okay" to the individual doing it, but it is hardly a sound explanation in any other way. What it really boils down to is someone wanting something faster than they'd be able to get it otherwise. The only value they perceive is having a "thing", whatever that "thing" may be.

    They don't perceive the gameplay required to get it as part of the experience - it's just something getting in the way of what they want. Saying "I don't have the time to spend getting it otherwise", is really saying "I don't have the free time to get it as quickly as I'd like to, and I don't have the patience to get it by playing the game as it's designed" -  only they never mention that italicized part. Of course they wouldn't. It puts the onus on them, which is precisely what they don't want. First rule of defending indefensible behavior: always shift the blame and responsibility of your actions to someone or something else.

    People will say "well, it takes far too long to get anything done in this game! The designers are idiots!". Again, an argument that - on the surface - seems to make sense. However, it's easily dismantled with a simple question: Too long compared to what? There is no objective, all-encompassing "rule" of "how long any thing in a MMORPG should take". What's "too long" for one person might be just fine for someone else. So, too long compared to what? Well, too long compared to what the individual making the argument would prefer, of course. But they can't acknowledge that. They can't say "It takes longer than I'd like it to", because now they're acknowledging that it's a personal quip, and not a universal issue. And, when you're trying to justify behavior such as buying in-game money, you have to make sure the blame and responsibility lands on anyone but yourself. So, they argue it as a "universal truth" and blame it on the game/developers, hence justifying their engagement in RMT - at least to themselves.

    As another example, often times, people will defend buying in-game money by saying "well, the game is so horribly designed and dragged out, that it forces you to buy money just to be able to play it". This is, again, someone freeing themselves of any personal responsibility in the act, by putting the blame on something else (the game/developers). And, for good measure, they'll often say the game "forces" them to buy money. Yep, they play the victim card. So, not only are they justfied (in their own minds) for what they're doing... they are the victim. The game is forcing them to buy that in-game money. It's the game that's the problem. Not them. Of course, this, too is nonsense. It's just another example of how people will spin rationalizations to excuse their own behavior in a situation and avoid any personal responsibility in the matter.

    Buying in-game money in a MMO - specifically where such activity is prohibited (a detail so many love to conveniently ignore as though it doesn't apply to them) - is a choice made by people who aren't so much interested in playing the game, as they are in obtaining "things" as quickly as possible. No matter the excuse, explanation, rationalization, justification or spin-doctoring... it boils down to impatience. Nothing more.

     

    The same reason everyone will ignore this great response because they don't want to see the ugly truth. The "casual" player argument boils down to usually impatience, greed, laziness, and unwillingness to learn to overcome challenges.

  • qombiqombi Unknown, LAPosts: 1,180Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
     
    Originally posted by dave6660
    By paying to skip parts of the game you don't like or to avoid long / boring grinds you are indirectly advocating that design.  Wouldn't a better use for your money be putting it toward games that don't have said "features"?

    Not if said games don't have the game mechanics or IP/setting that i like, and the F2P have them.

    Plus, i don't see games that do not have grinds. It is actually good to let the players decide what to avoid, instead of having a one size fit all design.

     

    Nariusseldon didn't refute any point you made. He actually strengthened your argument unknowingly. If these so called "casual" players would stop playing games that don't meet their desires that they have to go so far as to go outside of the game with real money and buy things to make it playable, the "F2P" of today wouldn't exist, which is designed with long grinds just to make you buy things. What fun is a poorly designed game? If you are the majority as you say, and didn't pay for games that you felt are so poorly designed you have to do this, games would be designed to meet your needs.

    Instead people buy games they apparently find tedious, boring, too challenging, whatever ever reason they feel they have to pay someone else to by pass parts of the game you pay to play .... creating the FTP market. I bet developers ever imagined people would pay money for something that didn't exist. I bet they are laughing all the way to the bank. They probably though people wanted fun games to enjoy their time in, who would have thought.

  • qombiqombi Unknown, LAPosts: 1,180Member
    Originally posted by Krimzin

     


    Originally posted by Aori

    Originally posted by Krimzin I can only speak from my own opinion. People who buy gold are typically people who have disposable income. Someone who has disposable income typically has a good job so it limits the time they can play. They still want to keep up but don't have the time to farm gold and raid. So they buy gold to save time. I get it and could care less if they do. They work for their money and should be able to spend it how they like. I would rather someone work and buy gold then to be unemployed and have massive amounts of gold. Gold Buyer > Deadbeat any day of the week. Again.. Just my opinion.
    Yes it is your opinion and it isn't correct. I've had contact with many people who squandered their real cash for money. Some failed to pay rent, some had to use savings, others had to "pawn" their account. I've even known people who were suits that got landed in to trouble from dumping 10s of thousands of dollars in virtual goods.

     

    Many people don't have the money to spend on it but like what it does for them.


     

    First off, How can my opinion be incorrect? Its my opinion. Get over yourself.

    As to my point.

    It doesn't matter if someone has a good job or not, poor judgment is poor judgment.
    If you make 10k a month and spend 9k on stupid shit, then your a fool.
    If you spend $20 here and there to buy gold, who cares. I spend $20 at lunch most days because I refuse to eat the garbage at most fast food places. Does that mean I have poor judgment.. no, it means that I watch what I eat and don't mind paying for it.

    What you are posting is a matter of semantics.

    You think your opinion is the only one that's right and everyone else is wrong.

    I don't think people despise you for your money. Good for you. They probably despise your self entitled attitude, bragging, and all around conceded attitude. Truth is there are plenty people out there probably smarter than you and not as smart as you. Having money usually doesn't mean you are smart, it means you kiss butt well. Money doesn't make you are likable person. But that is okay, I think you like yourself enough to make up for it.

  • qombiqombi Unknown, LAPosts: 1,180Member
    Originally posted by jpnz

    I can grind for 5 hours or I can work at my job for 10 mins and use that money to avoid the grind.

    Hmm... I wonder which one I'd choose; 5 Hours vs 10 mins

    Tough choice....

    Hmmmm ...... play a game I don't really enjoy or pay someone else to play it ... tough choice?

  • bstrippbstripp Crystal Lake, ILPosts: 241Member
    Originally posted by TangentPoint

    Impatience to have or attain "things", and/or a need to be competitive or superior to other players as soon as possible, is typically the motivation behind it in my experience.

    <snipped, see post 152 for full body>

    Buying in-game money in a MMO - specifically where such activity is prohibited (a detail so many love to conveniently ignore as though it doesn't apply to them) - is a choice made by people who aren't so much interested in playing the game, as they are in obtaining "things" as quickly as possible. No matter the excuse, explanation, rationalization, justification or spin-doctoring... it boils down to impatience. Nothing more.

    If you read Tanget's post (#152), it's well written, and I agree with a lot of it.

    However, I disagree with some of the conclusion.  While I agree that it is a way to subvert the time to acquire things, I disagree that they are not interested in playing the game.  Instead, I would say that those people are just not interested in doing certain things in the game.  They may enjoy other parts that are gated to them by some kind of time sink.  Since you are playing a game, doing things you enjoy is what I see as the goal of that activity.

    So if I have a choice of avoiding things I don't enjoy, to do things I do enjoy, I would be very favorably inclined to do them.

    I may play a game for three months.  However, if the part of the game I like takes me two months to get there of things I don't like, then I have wasted two months.  When I could have been enjoying my time for all three months.  Again it doesn't matter what "IT" is; PvP, PvE, Raids, Exploration, Looks, RP, whatever.  So while, yes, I am perhaps impatient, it is not because I don't want to play the game.  It's because I don't want to play a certain part of the game... whatever that may be.  

    Assuming that people should like every aspect of whatever game they are playing is just like saying if you are watching a recorded program, you should also watch the all commercials.  It's how the network intended you to see the content.  Other people who watched it live had to suffer through those breaks and by "paying" for a service (DVR) you are subverting that content.  Are you impatient or are you smart for skipping content that you have no desire to see?

    Since everyone has a limit to their free time, it's very reasonable for them to try to acquire "things" faster if it's going to make them enjoy their remaining free time even more.  So while I can see labeling it as impatient, I tend to think it's more of choosing what I wish to do with my free time.  Impatient has negative connotations that I am not sure always fit to why people want things faster.  That's your implication since you see no value in what they do.

    It's just like people who argue for RMT claiming that people who grind their content are nothing but basement dwelling losers with no life.  Yes, they likely have more free time in general, but the stereotype is not fair and does a disservice for those that enjoy that time gated content.

    It's fair to say that people who RMT want things faster, but projecting your rationale is not.  Nice post, well thought out, but I feel slightly missing the mark.

     

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,279Member Uncommon
    What is this grind that is causing so many to buy gold? 
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Any part that you find uninteresting and repetitive but feel it is, for some reason, necessary to progress.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • repomanrepoman BerlinPosts: 15Member

    I think, because we/they can.

    It is as with everything on this planet with human beeings - we do it because we can.

    It differs slightly on reasons, so I have to say I paid some money in a ftp because it was so well I would have bought it  in the first place. ( also it was much faster to get the points/ep/weapons etc. to compare :o) )

    So to admit, I can pay and I will if it is worth to me.

     

    2cts from here and have fun

     

     

    Trying hard to become human as it should be.

  • DemandmanDemandman BergenPosts: 57Member

    For me it's about efficiency.

    I'd prefer to work an hour and make the equivalent of tons of hours of gold farming, rather than do the latter. After all, the game has to be combined with real life at some level anyway. Rather not have TWO economies to worry about.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by qombi
    Originally posted by jpnz

    I can grind for 5 hours or I can work at my job for 10 mins and use that money to avoid the grind.

    Hmm... I wonder which one I'd choose; 5 Hours vs 10 mins

    Tough choice....

    Hmmmm ...... play a game I don't really enjoy or pay someone else to play it ... tough choice?

    That is not the point.

    Obviously there is some part of the game one would enjoy after paying to bypass the non-fun parts. Otherwise, why play the game in the first place?

  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Catskills, NYPosts: 1,832Member
    I kinda understand it in a way..... but it does seem rather silly to me. There are so many different things to do for entertainment.... including different types of games..... that if a major aspect of the game is ultimately so unfun for me that I'd actualy consider paying someone else to do it for me........ than I'd rather just find a different game or activity to entertain me in the first place.
  • ZebladeZeblade Colorado Springs, COPosts: 926Member

    Well when I played World of Warcraft (when it was harder) and I was lazy I wanted to make stuff. This was playing when it 1st started and about 1-2 years later and only getting ONE purple drop..I wanted more. Only did it a few times and was the only mmo I ever did as far as I can remember.

    Yet remember back in 2009 it (gold farming) was making 3 billion a year.  So we see more people buy gold then we know. Like saying "I never played WOW" what ever..

    As for this OP.. I think hes really asking "Anyone else buy gold like me?"

     

     

  • SilverchildSilverchild Grand-Mere, QCPosts: 118Member
    Originally posted by jdnewell

    You hold up the term " Gamer" like its a badge of honor that comes with a code of conduct. For most people its a form of entertainment they do in free time, not the Marines.

    Its just not that serious. And I am not sure what would even classify someone as a " bad gamer". It is entertainment, saying bad gamer is like calling someone a Bad Movie watcher.

    You are free to have your opinion, and others are free to ignore it. You just stay busy being a true hardcore gamer, that way you can make yourself feel good while you look down on the rest of us =)

     

     My hobby is watching movies. I dont have much time, though, so I pay my little brother to watch the first hour of movies, then I watch the endings. Bad movie watcher?

     

    My problem with buying gold (from 3rd party) is that MMOs are MULTIPLAYER games. Cheat all you want when you play your single player games... but in multiplayer? Follow the rules. Or pick a F2P game with "pay to win" cash shop.

     

    I put the gold buyers into the same basket as the Aimbotters in FPS, and maphacker in RTS.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Silverchild
     

     

     My hobby is watching movies. I dont have much time, though, so I pay my little brother to watch the first hour of movies, then I watch the endings. Bad movie watcher?

     

    You never heard of the "fast forward" button? People do use that all the time to skip over parts of video they do not enjoy. In fact, they pay for that feature in their machine.

    That is no different than paying to skip part of a game people don't enjoy. The only difference is that you pay a one-time fee for the machine with the fast forward button, while a game charges you multiple times to skip.

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,669Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Silverchild
    Originally posted by jdnewell

    You hold up the term " Gamer" like its a badge of honor that comes with a code of conduct. For most people its a form of entertainment they do in free time, not the Marines.

    Its just not that serious. And I am not sure what would even classify someone as a " bad gamer". It is entertainment, saying bad gamer is like calling someone a Bad Movie watcher.

    You are free to have your opinion, and others are free to ignore it. You just stay busy being a true hardcore gamer, that way you can make yourself feel good while you look down on the rest of us =)

     My hobby is watching movies. I dont have much time, though, so I pay my little brother to watch the first hour of movies, then I watch the endings. Bad movie watcher?

    Not a bad movie watcher but definitely someone who isn't too tech savvy, because everyone else has been just using the free Fast Forward button for decades now. A better use of your money would be to pay your brother to teach you how to use the remote. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Silverchild Originally posted by jdnewell You hold up the term " Gamer" like its a badge of honor that comes with a code of conduct. For most people its a form of entertainment they do in free time, not the Marines. Its just not that serious. And I am not sure what would even classify someone as a " bad gamer". It is entertainment, saying bad gamer is like calling someone a Bad Movie watcher. You are free to have your opinion, and others are free to ignore it. You just stay busy being a true hardcore gamer, that way you can make yourself feel good while you look down on the rest of us =)
     My hobby is watching movies. I dont have much time, though, so I pay my little brother to watch the first hour of movies, then I watch the endings. Bad movie watcher?
    Not a bad movie watcher but definitely someone who isn't too tech savvy, because everyone else has been just using the free Fast Forward button for decades now. A better use of your money would be to pay your brother to teach you how to use the remote. 

    You don't skip through good movies. Same with games I guess. Bad ones let you pay to avoid the parts that suck. Worse ones intentionally put in bad parts in order to entice you to pay to skip them.

    Could you imagine if movies were like that? Directors putting in hours of pointless dialogue with the option to pay to skip past it...

    And yet in video game land, its par for the course.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    You don't skip through good movies. Same with games I guess. Bad ones let you pay to avoid the parts that suck. Worse ones intentionally put in bad parts in order to entice you to pay to skip them.

    Not when i watch them the second or third time. I don't like all the parts equal even in good movies like The Avengers.

    Same with games. Some parts i am more willing to repeat than others.

     

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    Originally posted by Silverchild

    Originally posted by jdnewell You hold up the term " Gamer" like its a badge of honor that comes with a code of conduct. For most people its a form of entertainment they do in free time, not the Marines. Its just not that serious. And I am not sure what would even classify someone as a " bad gamer". It is entertainment, saying bad gamer is like calling someone a Bad Movie watcher. You are free to have your opinion, and others are free to ignore it. You just stay busy being a true hardcore gamer, that way you can make yourself feel good while you look down on the rest of us =)
     My hobby is watching movies. I dont have much time, though, so I pay my little brother to watch the first hour of movies, then I watch the endings. Bad movie watcher?
    Not a bad movie watcher but definitely someone who isn't too tech savvy, because everyone else has been just using the free Fast Forward button for decades now. A better use of your money would be to pay your brother to teach you how to use the remote. 
    You don't skip through good movies. Same with games I guess. Bad ones let you pay to avoid the parts that suck. Worse ones intentionally put in bad parts in order to entice you to pay to skip them.

     

    Could you imagine if movies were like that? Directors putting in hours of pointless dialogue with the option to pay to skip past it...

    And yet in video game land, its par for the course.

     I've never played a good game then, MMO or spg.  There is always something in them I get bored with and want to skip so I can continue to do the things I do enjoy.  That must be why I've never actually finished a video game in my life.  They must all be bad.

    I'm resigned to the fact that a game will never be created just for me, nuts.  I will continue to play a game if I enjoy the majority of it... and continue to skip the parts that bore me.

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

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