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MMOs of the past only shadows of themselves

qombiqombi Unknown, LAPosts: 1,180Member

It is a shame new generations will never be able to play Everquest or World of Warcraft as they were originally and arguably to some better than the current versions. MMOs drastically change from expansion to expansion, unlike standalone games such as Zelda where my 9 year old son can still enjoy the way it was intended. I will note and he does!

It is similar to making work of arts such as a sculpture from Michael Angelo and over the years rip an arm off, add a gun, remove the head in place for another head etc. I find that sad because I consider some of these original MMOs work of arts lost forever.

I feel developers when expanding upon their game should leave one server behind with the original game on it for those who want to enjoy the game in that state. When another expansion is released leave one more server available with the game + 1 expansion, and so on and so on. The developers could make money with this design scheme. Players who decide to play on these servers could pay to transfer off of them once they decide to and venture on to the next version of the game, be it live or another legacy server.

The developer could even charge a gold membership for access to the live game and the legacy servers. This would allow people to enjoy the game at different times in history with the option to move to live when you choose of course with a cost.


I haven't played live WoW or EQ in about 5 years now I believe because I didn't like the current version of the game. If this design scheme was in place, I would be there playing now and you know what? Would probably have a live character as well to play around with.

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  • RebelScum99RebelScum99 Mesa, AZPosts: 1,090Member

    I never liked EQ because I tried it around the same time as I tried WoW for the first time, and it just seemed like a much more tedious way to spend my time.  I basically stopped playing WoW shortly after Cata came out.  I enjoyed the BC and WOLK expansions very much, but even at that time I felt the game was slowly on a decline from the days of Vanilla WoW.  IMO, nothing was better than WoW during the Vanilla version, when the game was still difficult, you actually needed groups for open world content, and running a dungeon or raid didn't result in guaranteed success.  

    Not to mention, a game is ALWAYS better the first time through, when every experience is brand new.  

  • qombiqombi Unknown, LAPosts: 1,180Member
    Yes the first time through is great but a good game can still be good with another go at it. The rose colored glasses argument is tired and false. Game companies wouldn't resell remastered old games if that was the case.
  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,927Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by qombi

    It is a shame new generations will never be able to play Everquest or World of Warcraft as they were originally and arguably to some better than the current versions.

     

    Sure they can.  We just can't point the way on this forum.

     

    I love BC.  Going back helped me understand why.


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member


    Originally posted by qombi
    It is a shame new generations will never be able to play Everquest or World of Warcraft as they were originally and arguably to some better than the current versions. MMOs drastically change from expansion to expansion, unlike standalone games such as Zelda where my 9 year old son can still enjoy the way it was intended. I will note and he does!

    It is similar to making work of arts such as a sculpture from Michael Angelo and over the years rip an arm off, add a gun, remove the head in place for another head etc. I find that sad because I consider some of these original MMOs work of arts lost forever.

    I feel developers when expanding upon their game should leave one server behind with the original game on it for those who want to enjoy the game in that state. When another expansion is released leave one more server available with the game + 1 expansion, and so on and so on. The developers could make money with this design scheme. Players who decide to play on these servers could pay to transfer off of them once they decide to and venture on to the next version of the game, be it live or another legacy server.

    The developer could even charge a gold membership for access to the live game and the legacy servers. This would allow people to enjoy the game at different times in history with the option to move to live when you choose of course with a cost.

    I haven't played live WoW or EQ in about 5 years now I believe because I didn't like the current version of the game. If this design scheme was in place, I would be there playing now and you know what? Would probably have a live character as well to play around with.


    Thats in away why i like Skyrim alot the mod community is HUGE so alot diverse mods you won't believe how many play skyrim from guns, to aliens, loli pops, or zelda conversions.

    But there also so hardcore imerssive group that want skyrim not only to be veryhard also as immersive and true to core as it can with hardcore realism as its core.

    But nobody can influence or disturb your immersion you install mods you like and play as you want.

    Thats difference between mmorpgs and solo games that can be modded.

    Last game ive played that gave the old school hardcore play was Beta+ first 3 months Darkfall this was 2009 after that it was down hill fast.

    Oh and my first mmo was Asheron's call 1 in 99

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  • ClassicstarClassicstar rotjeknorPosts: 2,690Member


    Originally posted by ZombieKen
    Originally posted by qombi It is a shame new generations will never be able to play Everquest or World of Warcraft as they were originally and arguably to some better than the current versions.
     

    Sure they can.  We just can't point the way on this forum.

     

    I love BC.  Going back helped me understand why.


    Not realy game maybe but the gamers are from this time and many are the same as in the all the other anti social spoonfed treatmill grinders, so settings yes gamers no:P

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  • -Zeno--Zeno- Posts: 1,298Member Common

    Darkfall Unholy Wars was one that is just a shadow of Darkfall.  However that is changing as one of the original developers and owners is back with DFUW.  The first thing he did was last weeks Jesus patch.  He balanced the game in less than a week.

    We believe in Claus.

    The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

  • bingbongbrosbingbongbros Vista, CAPosts: 650Member Uncommon
    EQ1 died when SOE released SoL, LDoN, and PoP

    Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
    Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
    Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.

  • sparepotroastsparepotroast Los Angeles, CAPosts: 10Member

    Ergo the value of console/offline games.

    Online games are in a constant state of change and whatever was good will probably disappear and if it did then it will, forever...that goes the same with the bad ones. It will also disappear or be improved...the way online games develop through time is like a double-edged sword unlike console games where the sword is already as good as it is no matter how long....though its quality may degrade over time, it's value increases. That depends though...that doesn't apply to all games.

  • PWN_FACEPWN_FACE SeoulPosts: 670Member

    I understand you OP. But fear not. Thus speak the prophets:

     

    A great and true game will come again.

     

    Thus, it has been spoken. So shall it be.

     

    The pretenders and cloneurs who seek cash before gameplay shall be exposed. All the world will know of them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-_G37EK1VU

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    nah .. modern MMOs are better (to me) games.

    If EQ or UO is updated with modern graphics, i still would pass.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    I'm sceptical of nostalgia.   You can reinstall old code, but you can't turn back the clock on the world or the player.  From time to time, I'll go back and dig up and old CRPG and play for a while, but it's never the same for me.  They feel clunky and alien compared to the immersive experiences I remember, despite being the exact same game.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by qombi

    It is a shame new generations will never be able to play Everquest or World of Warcraft as they were originally and arguably to some better than the current versions. MMOs drastically change from expansion to expansion, unlike standalone games such as Zelda where my 9 year old son can still enjoy the way it was intended. I will note and he does!

    Let your son play EQ. I wish I could be a fly on the wall when he says "Dad, this is a horrible interface, terrible gameplay and the graphics suck," and then you reply nostalgically, "Yes, *sigh*, it's nothing like the original. I wish you could have tried that. It was even worse!"

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by maplestone

    I'm sceptical of nostalgia.   You can reinstall old code, but you can turn back the clock on the world or the player.  From time to time, I'll go back and dig up and old CRPG and play for a while, but it's never the same for me.  They feel clunky and alien compared to the immersive experiences I remember, despite being the exact same game.

    And entertainment is always about new experiences.

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by maplestone

    I'm sceptical of nostalgia.   You can reinstall old code, but you can turn back the clock on the world or the player.  From time to time, I'll go back and dig up and old CRPG and play for a while, but it's never the same for me.  They feel clunky and alien compared to the immersive experiences I remember, despite being the exact same game.

    And entertainment is always about new experiences.

    The African Queen would bore the crap out of a Millenial for that exact reason. One of the biggest parts of the movie was the wildlife shots - something one is inundated with after just a few weeks on the web.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • PpiperPpiper Horsham, PAPosts: 648Member Uncommon
    wait, what?
  • drakaenadrakaena Posts: 488Member Uncommon
    I've actually been playing vanilla WoW for the past couple months in order to get my raiding groove back and ready for Wildstar.

    Yes, the content is great. And going back after all these years really makes me appreciate WoW a lot more for what it is.

    But I will say this much, the combat is slowwww. Like really really slow. Its super noticeable right away.
  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd montreal, QCPosts: 1,479Member

      It's just part of life. Things seem shinier, more colorful in days of old when they were kinda new and exciting.

    I feel the same about old tv shows. I watched 'The Million Dollar man' growing up and thought it was so damn cool. About 3 yrs ago i watched an old episode, one of my favorites with the robotic Sasquatch and couldn't believe how cheezy and funny (not intended I'm sure) I found it.

    Everyone is a little like that with certain things that they look fondly upon, but we were the ones that changed. In our expectations, our refinement of our likes and dislikes. Hell, even our 'expertise' towards each of those things changed our views, our appreciation of them.

     Some things are still seen as epic and great, but that's mostly in our heads. Like physical pain, we forget those things that were plainly bad, frustrating, or simply 'dumb' to us in those things we reminisce with awe and wonder.

     Playing 5 hours straight of Pitfall on the Atari 2600 running backwards was the 'shit' back then. Now, I could only get to the 3 crocs in the pond without the vine before giving it up, grunting in dissatisfaction (putting it mildly).  lol

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,784Member Uncommon

    In order to make that practical, you have to accept that the "old" version will be essentially unsupported.  Trying to maintain several separate code paths would be an enormous nightmare.  The "old" version would have no future bug fixes, no future play-balance updates, or anything of that sort.  If major exploits are found to exist in the old version, they stay live in the old version forever.

    Furthermore, the playerbase wouldn't be at all similar.  If you think the lower level areas of WoW are deserted now, it would be much, much worse on the old version servers.  Would people really be willing to stay and raid a few dungeons endlessly and ignore the newer content forever?  And what happens after you have all of the raid epics you want?  Then what?  Blizzard constantly releases new content to combat that problem, but the old version doesn't get the new content, as that is its entire reason to exist.

  • KaledrenKaledren , NYPosts: 310Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by qombi

    It is a shame new generations will never be able to play Everquest or World of Warcraft as they were originally and arguably to some better than the current versions. MMOs drastically change from expansion to expansion, unlike standalone games such as Zelda where my 9 year old son can still enjoy the way it was intended. I will note and he does!

    Let your son play EQ. I wish I could be a fly on the wall when he says "Dad, this is a horrible interface, terrible gameplay and the graphics suck," and then you reply nostalgically, "Yes, *sigh*, it's nothing like the original. I wish you could have tried that. It was even worse!"

     

    I started with the Atari 2600. At the time, it was amazing and new. There were games that were classics ans still are, hence, they are still around to this day..such as Pac - Man, Space Invaders, etc. Sure, I still play them sometimes too.

     

    The same holds true with EQ1 compared to...say Rift now.

    But if my daughter were into games (Which she is not) and I showed her those games...of course she'd be unimpressed with them considering what there is now that she is or could be growing up with and playing.

    It's not nearly the graphics, or the UI most are talking about when it comes to EQ1 as much as it is the feeling it gave you. It FELT like a world. You FELT you were that character creating your own adventures and reputation. You made friends because in some cases it was necessary, and in others because you wanted to through socializing. Not to mention the communities they had...which most lack now a days.

    These are what made it special to me. It isn't "Nostalgia" or "Rose Tinted Glasses"...which IMO is a BS reply people like you give to try and discredit anything people say positive about EQ1 or UO because YOU disliked them, or can't find the time to dedicate to a MMORPG tha takes any amount of time beyond an hour to achieve something. It's the things mos modern MMORPG's lack that made them special and actual MMORPG's. Emphasis on the MMO part.

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kaledren

    I started with the Atari 2600. At the time, it was amazing and new. There were games that were classics ans still are, hence, they are still around to this day..such as Pac - Man, Space Invaders, etc. Sure, I still play them sometimes too.

    The same holds true with EQ1 compared to...say Rift now.

    But if my daughter were into games (Which she is not) and I showed her those games...of course she'd be unimpressed with them considering what there is now that she is or could be growing up with and playing.

    Don't be so certain. :) The gameplay of Space Invaders and many arcade games is very different from the gameplay of today's games. You'd be surprised what she might find entertaining. 

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • AIMonsterAIMonster Apopka, FLPosts: 2,059Member
    You can still play EQ as it was years ago.  There are servers for that including official ones.  People need to stop living in the past.  As good as EQ was back in the days when there were no other options, it's has really boring unexciting gameplay and is such a ridiculous time waster nowadays.

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  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by maplestone

    I'm sceptical of nostalgia.   You can reinstall old code, but you can turn back the clock on the world or the player.  From time to time, I'll go back and dig up and old CRPG and play for a while, but it's never the same for me.  They feel clunky and alien compared to the immersive experiences I remember, despite being the exact same game.

    And entertainment is always about new experiences.

    The African Queen would bore the crap out of a Millenial for that exact reason. One of the biggest parts of the movie was the wildlife shots - something one is inundated with after just a few weeks on the web.

    Earlier than millenials.  The name of that movie sounded familiar, went and looked it up.  I recall watching that movie with my mother in my earlier teens more than 20 years ago and it bored me to tears even then. :)

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by maplestone

    I'm sceptical of nostalgia.   You can reinstall old code, but you can turn back the clock on the world or the player.  From time to time, I'll go back and dig up and old CRPG and play for a while, but it's never the same for me.  They feel clunky and alien compared to the immersive experiences I remember, despite being the exact same game.

    And entertainment is always about new experiences.

    The African Queen would bore the crap out of a Millenial for that exact reason. One of the biggest parts of the movie was the wildlife shots - something one is inundated with after just a few weeks on the web.

    Earlier than millenials.  The name of that movie sounded familiar, went and looked it up.  I recall watching that movie with my mother in my earlier teens more than 20 years ago and it bored me to tears even then. :)

    Very revealing comments guys; keep 'em comin' image

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  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    So wait a second, the Holy Game is not just EQ1, it is EQ1 before expansions? That means (presumably) that you even sneer at members of the original player base who stumbled in too late?

    You guys are eager to change. How could anyone have doubted it for a single moment.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • RebelScum99RebelScum99 Mesa, AZPosts: 1,090Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    So wait a second, the Holy Game is not just EQ1, it is EQ1 before expansions? That means (presumably) that you even sneer at members of the original player base who stumbled in too late?

    You guys are eager to change. How could anyone have doubted it for a single moment.

    Pfffft, if you weren't there for pre-Alpha, when nothing worked, you have no idea what hardcore is.  

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