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[Column] General: The Trinity & How it Shapes Communities
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
One of the hottest topics both during a game's development and its subsequent release is the issue of the "holy trinity". In today's Social Hub, we take a look at how the holy trinity affects the game community. See what we think before leaving your own thoughts in the comments.
Some of the pros of the Trinity come in having defined roles. Places are set for players and their appropriate classes and roles they are to play. This offers structure and tempers the expectations for what a person will have to do as well as what others anticipate that person's actions to be. In essence, it also creates a sense of stability and a reliable gameplay scheme. By knowing exactly what is expected of a player, the rigidity of this system can make it easier for people to learn these basic expectations and duties.
Read more of Christina Gonzalez's The Social Hub: The Trinity & How it Shapes Communities.
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Comments
"The structure may be considered a source of pressure and stress on players to perform their roles with skill and accuracy. "
Western Developer - "Welp we don't want that. Get rid of it."
There is nothing wrong with the trinity. The issue is the dumb mobs that are ruled by an aggro table. Create smarter enemies and you will have to change the way the trinity works and make everyone be on their toes more. Instead of the tanks job being holding aggro his job is to use abilities that deflect damage from one person to him. Instead of the healer just healing the tank he needs to spread out and heal everyone. The DPS have to take more responsibility for moving around and positioning because mobs will know who is doing the damage etc.
Tank and spank is broken, the trinity isn't. As long as you build your classes so that needed abilities are spread out everything works fine.
Also getting away from the instance would help. Requiring a full group to do anything in a dungeon is a broken mechanic. Back in the day you could do a lot of content in imperfect groups because it wasn't all tuned for a full group.
Joined - July 2004
B2p , to be fair if Gw2 had trinity and a good INGAME LFG .....i will be have been still playing it..
But the most fun , jumping puzzles and the super adventure box , other than that meh.
Lack of Trinity hurts a game in my opinion. That is why I don't play more GW 2. No defined roles makes me feel like I am the same as everybody else. And a lot of the community of GW 2 demands you are just like them (Zerker Gear and full DPS mode). This is because there is no support for different builds. Well, let me take that back. You can build anything you want, but why would you?
Again, I go back to The Secret World. The way they opened up class builds yet maintain the template of the Trinity is a great first step to revamping the Trinity system. Non-Trinity games haave a long way to go before everybody doesn't just look for big numbers and zerg everything....
The article seems to be based solely on only two choices Trinity or structureless combat with undefined roles. You can still have interdependence, roles and teamwork without the contrived Trinity system. Example: EVE Online
To be clear, I agree with the points that provides and guides in the process of building team play and shaping a community. It's the contention that there are only two choices - trinity or structureless - that seems to be off the mark.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I like the trinity, yet do not want to depend upon to play the game. It would be nice if MMOs made it so that grouping enhanced the experience (not XP, per se) instead of requiring it in order to experience the gameplay.
I was forced to group in old EQ. It was possibly a 50/50 chance I would enjoy the experience with random players. When I grouped with friends and Guildmates, it was almost 100% more fun. I liked working together to figure out and overcome tougher content.
The thing about soloing for me is that there should be some content that no player can solo. World Bosses and raids come to mind. Smaller dungeons should be solo-able (and tough and slow going), but be more fun (and easier and quicker) within a group dynamic.
I agree that the trinity and downtime were two major parts of an MMORPG community. At least in the fighting aspect.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I'm playing GW2 at the moment and enjoy it. Would I enjoy it more if it were trinity based? - probably. I'm not sure if this is because I prefer trinity gameplay or if I've just not got used to non-trinity yet.
For me it's about whether the group encounters are fun and challenging. Simple tank 'n' spank encounters are no more boring than simple DPS 'n' dodge ones.
Developers need to learn how to make the mechanics of group encounters work best for the system they use whether trinity or non-trinity based.
I think Anet are still learning how to do this for their system.
I never got this "trinity" issue... maybe just I'm too rational and love strategy and planning, but for me it's obvious that roles in any group activity is a must. Whether it's work or play (or fighting), a coordinated group is performing better. It's not a matter of intelligence or plain common sense, even the animals who hunt in a pack defining roles among themselves.
The very least amount of strategy and teamwork is better by a mile than the chaotic uncoordinated zergfest...
Beyond that point there's a valid debate about the implementation, in a range from the most strict "as soon as you pick a class, you're set" version to the most open version of TSW's Ability Wheel. For me personally it's irrelevant, I'm fine with any system, but If I'd had to choose one, I'd go with TSW (the ability of picking any role based on the actual mood is great)
lol, indeed. The following line was even better: " If your healer cannot keep up with all the damage your team sustains, that healer may feel very stressed with a type of performance anxiety. " oh no, poor healer will be stressed... seriously, that's an issue?
I only play trinity with friends that I am used to play with. I am done with the drama surrounding PUGs when combat uses trinity. It is always the same, the dps players who are not able to adapt in combat make a PUG fail. And then of course blaming the tank or healer.
If you want to play in a group and you notice that someone is a weak link, then adapt. If a healer has trouble keeping up, slow your pace. Don't just overaggro, make your group fail and then blame someone else. In trinity, a healer and tank (andsometimes CC) are something you have to make work in a PUG. If they are not that good, then slow down. They are front and end. Dps is just a bonus most of the time.
Many dps players don't realise that they are just as responsible for determining the pace as the tank or healer. It is not just about tagging along, which imo is often the reason why many players want to play dps in groups.
As for community. I guess that the trinity system makes it easier for people who need a crutch for finding people to play with. As a healer or tank, people always want you in your group. So you will get invites without any effort of your side.
Part of the mistake here is to assume that the Trinity is the only way to have a specialized role-based combat system. It's not. For example a game like WWII Online has every bit as much of a specialized role-system as any game (most FPS games do)....it's just not the Trinity system.
So really when people say the want to do away with the "Trinity" system....a large part of the time they AREN'T talking about doing away with or lessening the degree that a game uses specialized roles.....they are simply talking about changing up the TYPE of specialized roles utilized by the game. That's an entirely seperate discussion from specialized to generalized roles.
This. People complain that the trinity system is outdated because it hasn't changed in over ten years, but neither has mob behavior. I don't think it's the party makeup that leads to stale gameplay.
There is the important part. Modern content is TUNED within an inch of its life. Games were better when they weren't tuned so tightly. Let us play the game as we like, not because we have to fit the trinity model. If I want to go into a dungeon with all DPS, I should be able to. If I'm missing a healer, that shouldn't be such an issue. If the tank isn't in the best gear, the group shouldn't be wiping on trash. Stop tuning the content to force people to play your way. If I wanted to play a rails shooter, I would. I'm playing an RPG for a reason.
I'm a fan of support classes -- which the trinity doesnt cover too well beyond lumping them w healer role
ie Bards / Enchanters of EQ1 / DAOC
EQ2 fan sites
I would bet there's twice as many people who oppose the trinity then embrace. It's that most people who oppose the trinity aren't vocal about it.
The trinity although fun, is dated and heaven forbid another company try to do something different. GW2 might of been zergy at the start but dungeon running is a complete different experience now and is proof that the Trinity is not needed for good group content.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
The trinity although fun, is dated and heaven forbid another company try to do something different. GW2 might of been zergy at the start but dungeon running is a complete different experience now and is proof that the Trinity is not needed for good group content.
I'll go a different direction.
I think the GW2 dungeon experience is brutal and not very enjoyable, a big reason I stopped playing, and most of my friends did as well. So I'd hardly call what you are saying as proof as if it's some kind of fact. I respect it's your preference, and for some folks, but it definitely isn't for me.
One of the things I think WoW got right, was dual spec. While I enjoy tanking for a group in a dungeon, or sometimes playing as a healer in a group, when I'm playing solo, and yes, there are times I solo, both of those play style just are not a ton of fun all by myself. I don't want to have to switch characters, I want to have some choices on what, and how I play a character.
I'm not advocating that anyone can be anything, but remove cost associated with switching your spec, and charge someone the "tax", they have to have multiple set's of gear, that's enough, in my opinion.
I see the argument for trinity and against trinity, and as someone who has been steeped in a trinity for years, I enjoy it, but there are definitely compromises to be made.
And I'm guessing like most your experience with any non-trinity mmo to be only GW2. If you've played mmo's the last 10 years it's all you know, brainwashed so to speak. I agree GW2 did a lack luster job on their combat model specifically the mob ai. But the past 10 years of static predictable bosses who's only real threat is to 1 player in the group, where's the immersion in that? Playing non-trinity games leaves more interaction in a battle for all. Another 10 years of the same no thank you, I welcome change even it has to be refined.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Lol, I m willing to take that bet.
this is like the Sandbox vs Themepark debate
you will never have a consensus about it
agreed. too many threads like this where we debate personal preference. and an official column, no less...c'mon guys you're better than this.