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I don't buy gold.
They are just games .. i don't need an advantage in it .. and if it takes too long, i simply quit and do something else.
However, i welcome the whales who buy gold in cash shops. They subsidize the industry while i have free fun, and the devs make a business. It is a win-win-win.
i really would NOT have a problem with peoiple buying gold if bots did not exist(except for dev printed gold) bots are what i have a problem with and chinese/3rdworld gold farmers i dislike those too people who are hired to do onl;y gold farming and nothing else but if some joe schmoe got lucky and found something valuable and wants to sell for cash go ahead hes just recieveing cash instead of plat or gold for said item
The problem is when people use hacks and bots distorting everything and ruining it, If i had a mmo company i would do my best to see that no hacks or bots would be used, i wonder would a specialty os for the game only do it ? hmm
id pay hackers to take down gold selling sites require a webcam for computerized face recognition upon login make combat or the ui impossible for bots to work in
im sure all of it could be hacked and bipassed eventually, but if everything changed every month or so maybe not
when hackers enter a game irresponsible hack use can ruin a game , sorrry you cant do your epic because some hacker has a key item on lockdown unless you pay 1995 and buy it, sorry that golden globe of awesomeness costs3 million gold because prices are inflatd due to excess gold from bots
Sorry you got trained because that gold farmer wanted your camp or it was alreadyt aken by a bot army
that being said im against players have multiple accounts too, and not just useing bots so id make combat too involvedto be able to box/hydra whatever you want to call it
Originally posted by bcbully It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance.
Deceased equine flagellation. This topic still comes up in the F2P Age?
Noted: People will invest in their entertainment, to varying degrees, and convenience has value. A large part of the American economy is built around the value of convenience. Conclusion: This includes many time-saving in-game shortcuts. Your title's cash shop is very likely built around the value of convenience, too.
As the old joke goes: "We've already determined what you are, miss. Now we're just haggling over the price."
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by bcbully It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance.
Well, fact is that even in F2P games, buying in game currency is mostly illegal. Only very few games, be they P2P, F2P, Sub based or "Send me a hug every month to play" based, have a build in (aka developer controlled and legal) real money to in game currency system.
My computer is better than yours.
Originally posted by Neo_Viper Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by bcbully It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance.
The games that don't sell gold still peddle convenience (xp potions, very common).
I would presume not all titles even have economies that reward 'gold selling' at all (CoH didn't, the game I'm currently in doesn't)...
Remove the world "gold" and replace it with "convenience" everywhere you see it. :shrug: The topic remains the same.
Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by Neo_Viper Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by bcbully It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance.
Not really. The "conveniences" are limited to what is available in said game's cash shop. What can only be bought in game with in game currency remains out of reach unless you actually play the game to get it. That's where illegal gold sellers make their living.
Originally posted by Neo_Viper Originally posted by Loktofeit It seems like you've both assumed both "illegal" and "third party" are part of the equation.
I clearly stated that if the gold buying was provided by the game developer without third party intervention, I had no problem with it. Thing is, the vast majority of the MMOs don't provide such a service, therefore the vast majority of gold purchases are definitely made from illegal gold farmers.
So what did I assume?
Who knows. vOv Didn't even read your post.
I was replying to nilden's statement.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Stizzled I'd be interested to know, out of those who have bought gold (whether it's through a 3rd party or from the developer themselves), how many of you prefer P2P games and hate the supposed P2W, F2P games?
I've bought game currency from both 3rd party and developer sanctioned channels. I have no business model preference.
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by Neo_Viper Originally posted by Loktofeit It seems like you've both assumed both "illegal" and "third party" are part of the equation.
Sorry then. But since you quoted both of us and explicitely said "both" in your post, I assumed (my turn! ) that you were talking to both of us.
Originally posted by Neo_Viper Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by Neo_Viper Originally posted by Loktofeit It seems like you've both assumed both "illegal" and "third party" are part of the equation.
Ah, ok. My mistake. there's an extra 'both' in my sentence. Sorry for the confusion there. Was only referring to nilden's blanket statement.
Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by Neo_Viper Originally posted by Loktofeit Originally posted by Neo_Viper Originally posted by Loktofeit It seems like you've both assumed both "illegal" and "third party" are part of the equation.
No harm done
First disclaimer, I don't ever buy gold illegally or trough third parties. I only buy it from the game creators themselves and I only buy it if the deal is good.
I used to hate the idea of "buying gold", or gems or whatever. But things in my life have changed. I'm no longer a student or even a starter, i'm steaming ahead in my career and can easily miss some euro's here and there. On the other hand, what i do lack is time. So in the essence i've started buying because i can't be bothered to grind and because the time I'm grinding where i could just have fun is actually more valuable to me today then the few euro's gems cost me.
However, that being said, the price has to be right, and it has to be a fair system. Guild Wars 2 really nails it perfectly in this sense. You don't need to buy gems at all in this game. You can grind for them, but even that you don't have to do. You can get all quality gear simply in game by crafting or for a few gold in the auction house. The shop simply has a few fluff items that make your character look funny or cool, but you can still look awesome without buying these. In such a game i feel comfertable to support the creators by buying a few gems now and again. It makes me feel good to support the developers, it gives me a nice fluff item and I don't feel at all that i've cheated the system in any way.
Originally posted by Neo_Viper Latest example for me was first logging in Age of Wushu when I started playing. First thing I was greeted by was half a dozen gold farmers spamming their messages. So long for the immersive martial arts based world... it totally ruined my mood for that day, and I only logged back in to play more several days later. All games are plagued by that crap, and the culprits are YOU, the selfish BUYERS.
This. I challenge anyone who thinks that buying gold from third party companies to log into Age Of Wushu and still have the same opinion. It's the only game I've ever quit playing because of constant gold spam and it's a shame, because those devs have put a lot of effort into creating a beautiful and immersive world which gets totally ruined by the gold spammers.
I have no problem with people who buy gold through the game. If you want to waste your money and the devs are ok with it, that's your business. But if you think your time and selfish desires is worth exploiting Asian kids and funding criminals, then, like I said in first post I really hope you get your credit card number stolen or lose your account while doing it.
I wouldn't play a video game if I found parts of it so broken I had to bypass them by going outside of the game to skip them. That is my argument. I wouldn't play the game at all if it was designed so poorly I felt I needed to do this.
I played an MMO once (not naming names) that I found the task of collecting materials so boring and unnecessarily long that I decided not to play that one. I put my money towards games that have features I find fun. Games that are not my cup of tea I don't play. Simple as that.
I find what you are doing illogical. I think I will purposely try to entertain myself by raking leaves yet I don't really like raking leaves so I will pay someone else to do it.
Would someone that buys gold explain to me why you would continue participating in something clearly you do not have time for, find too tedious/hard, and/or boring? It sounds like a disorder, you may need to go get help. I would go find a game designed for my life style instead of cheating in a game that was meant to be played for fun. If you aren't playing it, you are in the wrong game.
Originally posted by SacriaOriginally posted by tmann50Really simple answer there...Not every one can spend 50 hous a day gaming so they spend money to get items needed to compete. There are a lot of other ones but that is the most important one imho
Gold buyers CAN affect your gameplay if they inflate the prices, say in an Auction House environment.
Basically, it is another form of pay to win in my opinion.
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Because I can.
I don't wnna spend hours upon hours geargrinding in a game. I wanna play and have fun. If I can buy the gold/credits that allow me to buy the top gear then that's what I'll do.
Unlike the many kids who play MMOs, I'm an adult who make mone and I got no financial issues from spending my money on virtual ones.
Originally posted by LoverNoFighter Originally posted by bcbully It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance.
I guess that as a mature adult, you also have no problems with being part of the cause why MMORPGs are filled with bots, gold farmers, gold spammers and account thieves. Who cares if you ruin the game for everyone else, as long as you have your cheap fun, right?
I used to buy gold a few times in the old days, and in every case to buy a mount. Mounts were/are insidiously expensive, and I didn't want to wait until endgame until I could afford a mount as normal player, who didn't want to do gold grinding myself. So I believed in capitalism: don't want to do something yourself? Hire another person to do the job.
The very existence of gold buying is IMVPO proof that something in MMOs is just wrong. If the path to get something is fun, people don't buy gold. Especially for casual gamers some stuff is just way too much out of reach.
Or it used to be like this before the ingame stores.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by Elikal The very existence of gold buying is IMVPO proof that something in MMOs is just wrong. If the path to get something is fun, people don't buy gold. Especially for casual gamers some stuff is just way too much out of reach.
Stuff will always be "too hard" for some people. The problem is more where does fun start and stop for different people?
Reaction 1: it's not fun, I just don't do it. Who cares, it's just a virtual item.
Reaction 2: it's not fun, I cheat (aka break game rules by buying gold) to do it, not minding that I participate in ruining parts of the game for everyone else by helping it being filled by with farmers, sellers, spammers and account thieves.
I use reaction 1. And being casual is not an excuse for cheating and participating in making the game worse for many others.
Originally posted by Aori Originally posted by Krimzin I can only speak from my own opinion. People who buy gold are typically people who have disposable income. Someone who has disposable income typically has a good job so it limits the time they can play. They still want to keep up but don't have the time to farm gold and raid. So they buy gold to save time. I get it and could care less if they do. They work for their money and should be able to spend it how they like. I would rather someone work and buy gold then to be unemployed and have massive amounts of gold. Gold Buyer > Deadbeat any day of the week. Again.. Just my opinion.
Yes it is your opinion and it isn't correct. I've had contact with many people who squandered their real cash for money. Some failed to pay rent, some had to use savings, others had to "pawn" their account. I've even known people who were suits that got landed in to trouble from dumping 10s of thousands of dollars in virtual goods.
Many people don't have the money to spend on it but like what it does for them.
What you're describing really isn't about buying gold, it's about people living above their means. Your story could describe people spending money they don't really have on anything. The virtual items to make them spend it.
Impatience to have or attain "things", and/or a need to be competitive or superior to other players as soon as possible, is typically the motivation behind it in my experience.
I've seen and discussed a lot of different explanations, excuses and rationalizations for it, but many of them only work if you look at them superficially. The moment you start thinking about what's being said, and the implications behind it (sometimes those implications are spelled out as well, making it easier to connect the dots), the picture becomes clearer. Again, in every case, it's boiled down to impatience or that need to be competitive.
The "more money than time" argument comes up a lot. It surely works great as a personal rationalization of why it's "okay" to the individual doing it, but it is hardly a sound explanation in any other way. What it really boils down to is someone wanting something faster than they'd be able to get it otherwise. The only value they perceive is having a "thing", whatever that "thing" may be.
They don't perceive the gameplay required to get it as part of the experience - it's just something getting in the way of what they want. Saying "I don't have the time to spend getting it otherwise", is really saying "I don't have the free time to get it as quickly as I'd like to, and I don't have the patience to get it by playing the game as it's designed" - only they never mention that italicized part. Of course they wouldn't. It puts the onus on them, which is precisely what they don't want. First rule of defending indefensible behavior: always shift the blame and responsibility of your actions to someone or something else.
People will say "well, it takes far too long to get anything done in this game! The designers are idiots!". Again, an argument that - on the surface - seems to make sense. However, it's easily dismantled with a simple question: Too long compared to what? There is no objective, all-encompassing "rule" of "how long any thing in a MMORPG should take". What's "too long" for one person might be just fine for someone else. So, too long compared to what? Well, too long compared to what the individual making the argument would prefer, of course. But they can't acknowledge that. They can't say "It takes longer than I'd like it to", because now they're acknowledging that it's a personal quip, and not a universal issue. And, when you're trying to justify behavior such as buying in-game money, you have to make sure the blame and responsibility lands on anyone but yourself. So, they argue it as a "universal truth" and blame it on the game/developers, hence justifying their engagement in RMT - at least to themselves.
As another example, often times, people will defend buying in-game money by saying "well, the game is so horribly designed and dragged out, that it forces you to buy money just to be able to play it". This is, again, someone freeing themselves of any personal responsibility in the act, by putting the blame on something else (the game/developers). And, for good measure, they'll often say the game "forces" them to buy money. Yep, they play the victim card. So, not only are they justfied (in their own minds) for what they're doing... they are the victim. The game is forcing them to buy that in-game money. It's the game that's the problem. Not them. Of course, this, too is nonsense. It's just another example of how people will spin rationalizations to excuse their own behavior in a situation and avoid any personal responsibility in the matter.
Buying in-game money in a MMO - specifically where such activity is prohibited (a detail so many love to conveniently ignore as though it doesn't apply to them) - is a choice made by people who aren't so much interested in playing the game, as they are in obtaining "things" as quickly as possible. No matter the excuse, explanation, rationalization, justification or spin-doctoring... it boils down to impatience. Nothing more.
Originally posted by Neo_Viper Originally posted by LoverNoFighter Originally posted by bcbully It just doesn't make sense to me. I don't have a profound paragraph to write, I just want to know why. Thanks in advance.
Spot on Einstein.