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Where are all the tanks ?

135

Comments

  • EcocesEcoces Member UncommonPosts: 879

    people don't play tanks because 1) they don't want the responsbility and 2) they don't want to be yelled at by every other character in the group ... especially the whiney DPSers.

     

    I use to play tanks in EVERY mmorpg i got into then i played EQ2 and at the start it was ok however later when "speed runs" started to become more prominent is when it got frustrating. THEN i played WoW and after that experience i refused to play a tank ever again.

     

    as i told my guildies I will just play a faceroll DPS like everyone else.

  • krekenkreken Member UncommonPosts: 139

    I am leveling GLA tank, level 28 at the moment (rerolled from WHM). Before level 24, my queue time was around 15 minutes. After 24, it is instant. Why?

    A lot of people start tanks but quit in the early twenties for the following reasons:

    1. Lack of thick skin to deal with douchebags. Some people bother too much about what some random dude on the internet thinks.

    2. Don't want the responsibility. Nothing wrong with that. I knew a fighter pilot who played Eve; all he did was mining.

    3. Lack of tools to generate threat. Before you get Rage of Halone at level 26, threat generation is fucking tedious. Every time I saw a lancer or a pugalist in the group, I cringed. If they didn't watch their agro, and most of them didn't, forget about taking agro back from them. It was an exercise in frustration to some extent.

    Off topic a bit but what's up with lancers? It's like this class is retard magnet. It's very rarely that you see a decent lancer who doesn't tunnel vision and is aware of the environment.

  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,179
    I've got a FFXIV gladiator and I am not fond of it. Tanking is very boring combat-wise and the random groups make it worse. Nothing worse than an archer who gets mad that he got killed after he nukes an entire group before I get a swing in and then doesn't understand why I didn't magically get aggro right away.
    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • Kaijin2k3Kaijin2k3 Member Posts: 558
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    snip snip (to avoid quote pyramid)

    Coil is but one thing out of the entire game. There are two tanks in the game, both viable for everything except Coil even though I agree that PLDs are the better tanks in general.

    I know they have issues in coil, but I doubt most people are capable of even starting it atm.

  • free2playfree2play Member UncommonPosts: 2,043
    Originally posted by ZizouX

    I have both Warrior and Paladin at 50.  I also have Whm at 50 along with dps classes at 50 as well.

     

    From my experience, tanking is the most "draining" job.  There's no "cruising" mode even for farmed content because if you use the DF, you get a different group dynamic each time.   I have to mark targets only to see the DPS ignore them.  I have to take the FULL debuff from a boss/mob only to see a healer not Esuna or Leeches.

     

    I have to look at each group member to see if they've agroed.  I try to skip mobs only to see people behind me agro the mobs we were about to skip. 

     

    On the flip side, it's a very rewarding and satisfying job.  You have the biggest influence on the success of a run, more so than a healer.  It is my personal belief that a Very good tank can complete content with a mediocre healer.  You can have an excellent healer but will only get so far ifyour tank can't hold agro on more than one mob, or can't increase his threat/enmity level on a boss to allow the DPS to go full out.  I thnk a very good tank raises the threshold for potential excellence in a run than any other class.  A healer can compensate for a tanks shortcommings but a healer cannot elevate a group as much as an excellent tank can.  That's purely based on class design and the trinity system.

     

    When I heal dungeons, especially ones i've done 40+ times (AK) it's much more relaxing and "cruise" mode than tanking.  Tanking always requires that you are paying attention to your threat, what other party members are doing, maintaining agro on multiple mobs, avoiding red things on the ground, popping cooldowns situationally.  DPS has a far narrower roll and healing becomes much easier the better gear you get.

     

    On the flipside, some encounters in this game are FAR harder on healers and DPS than the tank (I'm looking at you TITAN HM!), so I guess it goes both ways.

     

    TLDR:  Tanking is a thankless job with a lot of responsibility.  You can never really "rest" during a run.  Healing is not as stressful for most content other than Titan HM.  DPS has a narrow roll in a party and less responsibility to effectuate the outcome.

    I have very limited experience in grouping in this game but one of the things I tried to do was make myself as useful as possible. I used the AoE heal as little as possible because I knew it was an aggro magnet. Keeping a tank up is a side show for most content. I tried the first few times to look for debuffs but they don't put it on the target bar , only in the group bar when someone has a stat effect. That's fine because I kind of need to look at both bars when I am healing anyway with all the AoE nukes they use in FF14. When stat effects do happen it's after a big hit and GCD force a healer to be healing. If you are dazed or stunned, by the time I cast Esuna, it's gone.

     

    I've also tried do cast some DoT on to mobs and even 2 cycles of GCD and the poor tank can be at 40% health so they can't tank for shit. They are just aggro magnets. It isn't that they aren't playing the class. It's that they can't. Cookie cutter, duty finder groups are just another example of no imagination in how they designed the content.

     

    Last Note: The last two dungeons I did, we were waiting on dps. The truth is, they made dungeons in this game an experiment in sucking, as any class. Unless forced, people are doing Fates. Not just to level but for seals that you need in the thousands for them to be useful when you get them a few hundred per event you participate in.

  • Kaijin2k3Kaijin2k3 Member Posts: 558
    Originally posted by free2play

    That's fine because I kind of need to look at both bars when I am healing anyway with all the AoE nukes they use in FF14. When stat effects do happen it's after a big hit and GCD force a healer to be healing. If you are dazed or stunned, by the time I cast Esuna, it's gone.

    I don't know which instances you've done, but in some fights on the later ones, it's the stacking poison that does the real damage.

    An example is Brayflox (L32). Removing the poison debuff that the first boss does can be more useful than trying to Cure through it.

  • GrailerGrailer Member UncommonPosts: 893
    Originally posted by Beelzebobbie
    Originally posted by Grailer

    Why does no one play tanks in these types of games ? I've been waiting for over an hour for a group on my dps.

     

    I just don't understand why more people don't play tank class , is it hard or something ?

    Why don't you play tank?

    I do play a tank ,  I have a l   L50 warrior and a L41 Paladin which I both have levelled up mainly doing Dungeons for XP.

     

    I get instant que with those roles but when I switch to my DPS classes I wait forever which is annoying since I hate doing FATES and don't have any quests left .  I should've just made a new character for DPS to get the quest xp .

     

    When I do actually get a dungeon , the tank omg , well lets just say this one tank stood before some mobs and asked group "what do I do  ? "     I think he was PS3 player because of the way he turned so slowly .

     

     

     

     

  • GrailerGrailer Member UncommonPosts: 893
    Originally posted by Ecoces

    people don't play tanks because 1) they don't want the responsbility and 2) they don't want to be yelled at by every other character in the group ... especially the whiney DPSers.

     

    I use to play tanks in EVERY mmorpg i got into then i played EQ2 and at the start it was ok however later when "speed runs" started to become more prominent is when it got frustrating. THEN i played WoW and after that experience i refused to play a tank ever again.

     

    as i told my guildies I will just play a faceroll DPS like everyone else.

    I've never been yelled at all the time ive been tanking except once in RIFT which is different game .

    I have had a healer quit on me tho once 2nd time running a dungeon and I went the wrong way and wiped group :)

    Had some DPS say my gear wasn't strong enough for wanderers palace ,  I apologized and left group even after the healer said he would try to carry me through .

    However I have LEFT a lot of groups myself .   I target mobs , if DPS keep targeting wrong mob and stealing aggro , I leave .  On a boss fight I said everyone target boss and ignore adds .. adds appear DPS switched to adds , I said mid fight "I said leave adds" and left.

    If I die on trash pulls because healer is doing DPS and not healing , I leave depending on how I feel at the time.

    So yeah I guess when people get group with me they know not to annoy me or they sit in que for another couple of hours .

     

     

     

  • OzivoisOzivois Member UncommonPosts: 598
    This is what happens when a game is not made properly. If dps were more glass cannons like they should be you would see less of them and more healers and tanks.
  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Grailer

    Why does no one play tanks in these types of games ? I've been waiting for over an hour for a group on my dps.

     

    I just don't understand why more people don't play tank class , is it hard or something ?

    Depending on game design, the tank typically has the most active, attentive role in any group.  They are generally expected to know all nuances of the fight, which mobs to hit, which to pass by in order to move the party through the dungeon as quickly as possible.

    ... 

    Agree fully with your post, you have said all that was to be said. :-) 

  • GrailerGrailer Member UncommonPosts: 893
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Grailer

    However I have LEFT a lot of groups myself .   I target mobs , if DPS keep targeting wrong mob and stealing aggro , I leave .  On a boss fight I said everyone target boss and ignore adds .. adds appear DPS switched to adds , I said mid fight "I said leave adds" and left.

    If I die on trash pulls because healer is doing DPS and not healing , I leave depending on how I feel at the time.

    So yeah I guess when people get group with me they know not to annoy me or they sit in que for another couple of hours .

     

     

     

    [mod edit]

    Actually I'm the tank healers pray for when they click the commence button . I do the following:

    Most importantly I know how hold agro

    keep my gear up to date as best as possible

    use cool downs correctly

    move out of AOE

    put target marks mobs ( pretty much the most important thing a tank can do in this game imo )

    stun mobs

    know all the fights

    know shortcuts / speed runs / fastest paths

    where every mob is how many there are , what type , what abilities they use.

    know what my group members abilities are.

     

    Of course all this is useless if DPS start attacking mobs before you even use flash and focus fire on the mob that isn't even marked right ?

     

     

     

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818
    Originally posted by Grailer
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Grailer

    However I have LEFT a lot of groups myself .   I target mobs , if DPS keep targeting wrong mob and stealing aggro , I leave .  On a boss fight I said everyone target boss and ignore adds .. adds appear DPS switched to adds , I said mid fight "I said leave adds" and left.

    If I die on trash pulls because healer is doing DPS and not healing , I leave depending on how I feel at the time.

    So yeah I guess when people get group with me they know not to annoy me or they sit in que for another couple of hours .

     

     

     

    [mod edit]

    Actually I'm the tank healers pray for when they click the commence button . I do the following:

    Most importantly I know how hold agro

    keep my gear up to date as best as possible

    use cool downs correctly

    move out of AOE

    put target marks mobs ( pretty much the most important thing a tank can do in this game imo )

    stun mobs

    know all the fights

    know shortcuts / speed runs / fastest paths

    where every mob is how many there are , what type , what abilities they use.

    know what my group members abilities are.

     

    Of course all this is useless if DPS start attacking mobs before you even use flash and focus fire on the mob that isn't even marked right ?

     

     

     

    Who cares if you do any of that once you've quit the group half way through because someone did something you don't like ?
     Do you think the healer is standing there after you quit saying " yeah but did you see his gear ? " Do you think he's upset with the DPs for making you quit ? No..he's thinking wow another self righteous tank.

    You're saying you're a good tank just as long as everyone acts like a robot and does exactly what you say. That doesn't really sound like the definition of a leader to me. That sounds like something any shmuck could do.

  • GrailerGrailer Member UncommonPosts: 893
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Grailer
    Originally posted by DamonVile
    Originally posted by Grailer

    However I have LEFT a lot of groups myself .   I target mobs , if DPS keep targeting wrong mob and stealing aggro , I leave .  On a boss fight I said everyone target boss and ignore adds .. adds appear DPS switched to adds , I said mid fight "I said leave adds" and left.

    If I die on trash pulls because healer is doing DPS and not healing , I leave depending on how I feel at the time.

    So yeah I guess when people get group with me they know not to annoy me or they sit in que for another couple of hours .

     

     

     

    [mod edit]

    Actually I'm the tank healers pray for when they click the commence button . I do the following:

    Most importantly I know how hold agro

    keep my gear up to date as best as possible

    use cool downs correctly

    move out of AOE

    put target marks mobs ( pretty much the most important thing a tank can do in this game imo )

    stun mobs

    know all the fights

    know shortcuts / speed runs / fastest paths

    where every mob is how many there are , what type , what abilities they use.

    know what my group members abilities are.

     

    Of course all this is useless if DPS start attacking mobs before you even use flash and focus fire on the mob that isn't even marked right ?

     

     

     

    Who cares if you do any of that once you've quit the group half way through because someone did something you don't like ?
     Do you think the healer is standing there after you quit saying " yeah but did you see his gear ? " Do you think he's upset with the DPs for making you quit ? No..he's thinking wow another self righteous tank.

    You're saying you're a good tank just as long as everyone acts like a robot and does exactly what you say. That doesn't really sound like the definition of a leader to me. That sounds like something any shmuck could do.

    Clearly I don't care what others think. I only care about if Im having fun or not .    If 95% of all groups I play are fun then I get 1 group with THAT guy who makes game not fun for me then I have to ask myself .. do I really want to spend the next 60 minutes not having fun or do I leave and waste 15 minutes getting a good group  ( odds are in favour of getting better group)

    Pretty easy really , we don't play to not have fun right :)

  • grapevinegrapevine Member UncommonPosts: 1,927

    Some really need to read up.  There's 4 types of tanks, Paladin, Warrior, Gladiator and Marauder.  The latter two being available at level 1.

     

    From what I've seen there's a higher percentage of people playing tanks, than other MMOs.   One factor probably being Marauder is often assumed to be a dps class, when its not.  That aside, tanks generally (and not specific to FF XIV) are often more group orientated players.  That often have a friend or two tagging along, or have been consumed by a guild.  That alone limits the number of spaces for people outside the tank's clique.  DPS tend to be more solo players, and played more often.   Hence the lack of spaces they perceive. 

     

    Also there's generally more pressure on a new tank, which often makes them nervous to group outside of friends.  Socially being a damage dealer is simply less stressful, with less hassle, given modern culture.

  • JustsomenoobJustsomenoob Member UncommonPosts: 880
    There's a lot of adds (additional mobs I mean) to pick up in this game on average compared to other themepark mmos.  It's kind of a PITA sometimes.
  • GrailerGrailer Member UncommonPosts: 893
    Originally posted by Justsomenoob
    There's a lot of adds (additional mobs I mean) to pick up in this game on average compared to other themepark mmos.  It's kind of a PITA sometimes.

     

    Probably one of the main differences in this game is that there is no actual taunt button .

     

    Whereas in WOW and RIFT etc you had taunt buttons , but holding agro in those games is a joke easy .

     

    This game holding agro can be hard especially for paladin .  I mean its easy once you know how but you can't just spam flash ftw because it appears to fail after a 3+ spams . 

    I notice that mobs build up a resist to flash but im not sure if they resist the threat component or just the blind component.  Anyways Flash alone cant keep healers heals from over taking flash on agro meter eventually .

     

    Most of the time every pull will be .

    mark target  - shield throw - flash -  123 - flash - 123 - flash - 123 - flash   ( target dead ) - 12 ( 3) on other mob ..    if I keep using flash the healer will pull agro on mob not being hit .

     

    So you can see if a DPS start focus hitting target unmarked , means I would have to switch to that target and hit it with ability because they will do more agro than flash if they have decent gear . 

    this isn't a problem if the DPS are using AOE abilities since they are weaker and flash alone can hold agro.

     

    So yeah I guess the average n00b that has no idea about threat etc would probably have a bit of a struggle being a good tank right away . 

     

     

     

     

  • xpsyncxpsync Member EpicPosts: 1,854

    I recently switched from being and Arc to dedicated Conj, at 17 i started running dungeons and have done nothing but dungeons since, now level 26 a few days later.

     

    As i progressed higher in the dungeons i've noticed the quality of tanks dramatically improve, so if you ask me tanking is the most demanding position. Hence i feel some folks just aren't cut out for this roll, you're the leader. Maybe some people start to realize this a switch to another class.

     

    As some mentioned my glory of instant dungeons is at times a several minute wait, not during prime time but like this morning i had to wait about 5 minutes, and it was for a tank. However it's worth the wait now as they are much more competent tanks, where at the beginning there was some interesting runs i'll tell ya. lol

    My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022

    Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)

    Currently Playing; Dragonflight and SWG:L
  • monochrome19monochrome19 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    You truly do not need a tank until max level. I've heal-tanked just about every dungeon in this game. The dungeons are easy mode.
  • TheRealDarkeusTheRealDarkeus Member UncommonPosts: 314
    I tank, I have just not been able to play a lot lately so I am still level 25.  Bleh.
  • monochrome19monochrome19 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    Originally posted by Aori
    Originally posted by monochrome19
    You truly do not need a tank until max level. I've heal-tanked just about every dungeon in this game. The dungeons are easy mode.

    I call BS.

    /shrug Call it what you want. Doesn't change the fact that it happened.

  • GrailerGrailer Member UncommonPosts: 893
    Originally posted by monochrome19
    Originally posted by Aori
    Originally posted by monochrome19
    You truly do not need a tank until max level. I've heal-tanked just about every dungeon in this game. The dungeons are easy mode.

    I call BS.

    /shrug Call it what you want. Doesn't change the fact that it happened.

     

    Lol yeah sure you have heal tanked every dungeon . Maybe some trash pulls with 1 or 2 adds on you but not bosses.

     

    I don't think PS3 players could be successful tanks or even melee in this game . Some of the dungeons require ALOT of movement to avoid AOE  take for example 2nd boss  Dzemael Darkhold.  LOTS of moving around , fast movement . Faster than an analog control would allow imo .

  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Will always be a problem in Trinity based games.  It's why I prefer either a larger group size (preferably 7-9) with 1 tank and 1 heal.  IMO it is the only way to fix the trinity.  Seeing as the most enjoyable classes are DPS.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

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  • monochrome19monochrome19 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    Originally posted by Grailer
    Originally posted by monochrome19
    Originally posted by Aori
    Originally posted by monochrome19
    You truly do not need a tank until max level. I've heal-tanked just about every dungeon in this game. The dungeons are easy mode.

    I call BS.

    /shrug Call it what you want. Doesn't change the fact that it happened.

     

    Lol yeah sure you have heal tanked every dungeon . Maybe some trash pulls with 1 or 2 adds on you but not bosses.

     

    I don't think PS3 players could be successful tanks or even melee in this game . Some of the dungeons require ALOT of movement to avoid AOE  take for example 2nd boss  Dzemael Darkhold.  LOTS of moving around , fast movement . Faster than an analog control would allow imo .

    I play on PS3. And yes, I've healed through bosses. I like the controller, it constricts the amount of abilities you can use but once you get the hang of it its alright.

  • EdliEdli Member Posts: 941
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Will always be a problem in Trinity based games.  It's why I prefer either a larger group size (preferably 7-9) with 1 tank and 1 heal.  IMO it is the only way to fix the trinity.  Seeing as the most enjoyable classes are DPS.

    7-9 would be a mess IMO. Fewer people there are the more responsibility each party member will have. 

    However FFXIV should have went with 5 instead of 4. 1 tank/healer, 3 DPS would have fixed the queue a bit. Kinda hard changing it now, you have to redesign all the dungeons for that. 

     

  • Swedish_ChefSwedish_Chef Member Posts: 213
    Originally posted by Ozivois
    This is what happens when a game is not made properly. If dps were more glass cannons like they should be you would see less of them and more healers and tanks.

    What? The game itself is made very well. It's MMO communities which are hard & unforgiving toward tanks and healers which prevent them from being more prevalent.

    Also DPS classes in FFXIV are fairly squishy; you're not going to be standing for long if you pull aggro.

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