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SotA moderators allow this but not the word carebear

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Comments

  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arrogant_Wormy

    WARNING: This post got a little "Ranty"

    TLDR; Move along, if you cannot be bothered to read, this post is not for you.

     

     

    I am sorry, but since when is non-consensual PVP "Risk vs. Reward" Gameplay. I would like to point out that Non-Consensual implies ganking. Though a game allowing FFA PVP via PVP servers or whatever, the PVP is inherently consensual as you agree to said PVP by playing.

     

    I think the bigger issue here is allowing ONLY the one style of play. People that prefer co-operative play are not necessarily "Care-Bears", they might just prefer to socialize.

     

    Now to be fair, I do understand your point OP. However I would also like the point out the aggresive nature, and all encompassing statements that are frequently seen by the "Hardcore PvP" crowd. The overwhelming interest to make someone else suffer for your own enjoyment Aka Ganking, truely falls under a Sociopathic tendancy, this behavior is not tolerated in real life, and when you think about it, neither is the smack talking that takes place in most PVP enviroments.

     

    I am not a Carebear, I enjoy pvping when I am in the mood for it. I play games like EvE and Darkfall, and play on PvP Servers when they are around. But I also truly enjoy a cooperative experience as well. And I do hope that someday a PVP game can prove to me that it has a decent community, because to be honest I have found the most PVP centric games attract the scum of the MMO Communities.

    I would also like to understand why the term carebear stands to describe a PvE player? Do you not believe that theirs is a valid playstyle as well, without feeling the need to insult us/them. Just because someone enjoys a PvE experience, and would like to be immersed in lore. In truth, much of the reason I enjoy a PvE experience is for story, lore, and imagination... to get lost in a writers mind. Like reading a good book. And sometimes, just sometimes, it is really fun to partake in a particular fantasy with some friends, or soon to be friends. Sitting and insulting someone for this, simply emphasises what many people HATE about a PvP community, and for an example just take a look at how people from RP Communities are treated by non RP players.

    This is my Opinion, and my opinion only. I am not presenting this as fact, only as personal experience.

     

    Wow this went a lot longer than I wanted.... sorry.

     

     

    You have to understand that we arent discussing real life here, were talking about loss of pixels. Being the killer of pixels isnt being a sociopath. It is just another type of playstyle. A playstyle that include competition, risk vs reward and consequences. A playstyle where the competition with other human players are most essential.

    Take the opposite of above and you have the carebear.

     

     

  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dauntis

    I think the difference is calling somebody a carebear is namecalling, stating that many in the psychological field believe that some people who enjoy non-consensual PvP are likely to have sociopathic tendencies is not. It is stating an actual fact (not that they are sociopaths or not, but rather that the psychological community sees a trend in the mental behaviors of people who do).

    I would contend that when you hear the ranting and slamming keyboards and throwing things (former roommates)or conversely their perverse joy of slaughtering unarmed or extremely underlevelled or geared people and their liking it to killing children that perhaps some of those people do need help. Sure not everyone who enjoys violently ganking the innocent is suffering mental trauma, but probably a good number could use counselling.

    And again, that non-consensual player killed pixels not the player behind the keyboard. 

    There have to be a age setting for games that fit the profile of the game. Some games should only be for adults and if youas an adult dont like killing pixels then just dont enter such a game.

    I know thousand of players that fit right into the description non-consensual players and they are just as well behaved real life as any carebear. Very social individuals.

    A carebear is a good description of a PvE player.

  • funyahnsfunyahns michigan city, INPosts: 315Member
     So they don't want you to use the word Carebear?  So don't use it.  I thought you didn't even want to play the game since there is no forced pvp.
  • RorhcRorhc NYC, NYPosts: 112Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by Dauntis

    I think the difference is calling somebody a carebear is namecalling, stating that many in the psychological field believe that some people who enjoy non-consensual PvP are likely to have sociopathic tendencies is not. It is stating an actual fact (not that they are sociopaths or not, but rather that the psychological community sees a trend in the mental behaviors of people who do).

    I would contend that when you hear the ranting and slamming keyboards and throwing things (former roommates)or conversely their perverse joy of slaughtering unarmed or extremely underlevelled or geared people and their liking it to killing children that perhaps some of those people do need help. Sure not everyone who enjoys violently ganking the innocent is suffering mental trauma, but probably a good number could use counselling.

    And again, that non-consensual player killed pixels not the player behind the keyboard. 

    There have to be a age setting for games that fit the profile of the game. Some games should only be for adults and if youas an adult dont like killing pixels then just dont enter such a game.

    I know thousand of players that fit right into the description non-consensual players and they are just as well behaved real life as any carebear. Very social individuals.

    A carebear is a good description of a PvE player.

    Hey , if you want to bring real life into it , I'll tell you why these people are well behaved ,it's called jail.

     

    Don't bring real life into a game debate.

    This could end up being very interesting.

  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by barasawa

    One is calling a large group of players by a (now) derogatory term.

    The other is using several sentences to point out the existence of studies (though references should be linked) that seems to indicate that there is negative psychological attributes associated with another group of players.

    He also states that he essentially agrees with the studies and suggests a possible means of help.

     

    Two different things, and even if SotA moderators don't like that kind of talk, it's harder to quickly spot with simple keyword filter and isn't calling them by a derogatory term. 

    I have to wonder, are you making such a huge fuss out of it because you feel it is directed at you personally? And also, it does seem as though an anger management class might actually help some of them. Though I don't think most of them are angry, I just think many of them tend to be a-holes and the like, and the last time I checked, no simple class will help moderate that kind of anti-social activity. ;)

    Oh, and if you're wondering, consistently calling a group of people by derogatory terms (aka, insults), is itself an anti-social behavior and is normally discouraged.

    Yeah that study would be fun to read. =)

    I wonder why he didnt post it?

    He calls a group of players for sociopaths. The ones that enjoy non-consensual PvP with it's risk vs reward and consequences.

    I call a group of players that have a gamestyle of carebearism for carebears.

    To me it is way more serious claiming a group of players have some mental disorder then calling a carebear a carebear.

  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloPosts: 2,224Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rorhc
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by Dauntis

    I think the difference is calling somebody a carebear is namecalling, stating that many in the psychological field believe that some people who enjoy non-consensual PvP are likely to have sociopathic tendencies is not. It is stating an actual fact (not that they are sociopaths or not, but rather that the psychological community sees a trend in the mental behaviors of people who do).

    I would contend that when you hear the ranting and slamming keyboards and throwing things (former roommates)or conversely their perverse joy of slaughtering unarmed or extremely underlevelled or geared people and their liking it to killing children that perhaps some of those people do need help. Sure not everyone who enjoys violently ganking the innocent is suffering mental trauma, but probably a good number could use counselling.

    And again, that non-consensual player killed pixels not the player behind the keyboard. 

    There have to be a age setting for games that fit the profile of the game. Some games should only be for adults and if youas an adult dont like killing pixels then just dont enter such a game.

    I know thousand of players that fit right into the description non-consensual players and they are just as well behaved real life as any carebear. Very social individuals.

    A carebear is a good description of a PvE player.

    Hey , if you want to bring real life into it , I'll tell you why these people are well behaved ,it's called jail.

     

    Don't bring real life into a game debate.

    The one that brought real life into this was the character called MagiK over at SotA forums that claim non-consensual players are sociopaths. And there were no reaction whatsoever from SotA moderators.

    So you're saying that players that like non-consensual PvP is in jail, ROFL.

  • Big.Daddy.SamediBig.Daddy.Samedi Edmonton, ABPosts: 148Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    <snip>

     

    Wow this went a lot longer than I wanted.... sorry.

     

     

    You have to understand that we arent discussing real life here, were talking about loss of pixels. Being the killer of pixels isnt being a sociopath. It is just another type of playstyle. A playstyle that include competition, risk vs reward and consequences. A playstyle where the competition with other human players are most essential.

    Take the opposite of above and you have the carebear.

     

     

    The problem isn't the PvP it is the Ganking , Ie. Non-Consensual PvP, how is that risk vs reward.... why could this not be in a PVP realm/overlay. How does attacking someone that does not provide a challenge make risk vs reward gameplay. A Game like EvE or Darkfall do you feel special when killing someone who is unable to defend themselves? Is this somehow risk vs reward? Explain that to me, because I enjoy a challenge when I PvP, I want to work for my kills. Which is why I PvP in FPS, Fighting Games, and pretty much any genre OTHER than MMORPG's. I mean comparing PVP in an MMO to say Dark Souls/Demon Souls and you can see what I mean.  In a game like that a player that is signifigantly lower level can still defeat a higher level player with tactics.  Wow Totally off topic here.... Ok..

    The point I was trying to make with my post is while you claim you are upset at being lumped in with the alleged "Sociapath Inclined Players", you lump all players looking for a cooperative gameplay style as Carebears, which lightly derogitory on not is still used as an insult much the same way FPSers use N00b (Which I might add I hate as well). The fact of the matter is that should any of the behaviours that are portrayed in the game were placed in real life situations, there people would indeed be labelled sociopaths or worse. The problem comes in with the belief that somehow loss of pixels makes this less valid. It is not about the loss of pixels... it is the idea of having your fun at someone elses expense. The idea that you can ruin someones evening and enjoyment of a past time, just to entertain yourself. Do you see the point? THIS is why people speak of PvPers the way they do.

    The statement that was made in that post is actually verifiable as has been stated previously, and in fact we could perform an entire study based on this. The Term carebear is simply an insult used much the same as a racial slur to denote a particular subsect of person/player, not really much different that a racial slur. The level of offensiveness depends on the person.

    Whereas if you watch the actual behaviour patterns in your average pvp based MMO you will see a trend. In fact you can go farther and move in to any PVP based game and you can find everything from mild mental issues to truely over the top examples of player that are sociopathic.

    Extreme example - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8SWMAQYQf0

    Much of the problem that moves forward the line of thought is the method in which PvP'ers such as yourself (But not necessarily you) choose to present their ideas. Instead of making a proper argument, they fly off the handle with insults and derogitory terms such as Carebear or N00b. Both parties need to sit down and understand that you both enjoy a genre. But you need to understand that not every game needs to have PVP, and Not every game needs to PvE.

     

    As for Risk vs Reward, many PvE players want the same risk you do, however again hard and intelligent AI. Complete with death penalties etc. Is that any less valid? Do it mean they do not desire risk vs reward?

    Alright, I am done.... /rant

     

  • RorhcRorhc NYC, NYPosts: 112Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by Rorhc
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by Dauntis

    I think the difference is calling somebody a carebear is namecalling, stating that many in the psychological field believe that some people who enjoy non-consensual PvP are likely to have sociopathic tendencies is not. It is stating an actual fact (not that they are sociopaths or not, but rather that the psychological community sees a trend in the mental behaviors of people who do).

    I would contend that when you hear the ranting and slamming keyboards and throwing things (former roommates)or conversely their perverse joy of slaughtering unarmed or extremely underlevelled or geared people and their liking it to killing children that perhaps some of those people do need help. Sure not everyone who enjoys violently ganking the innocent is suffering mental trauma, but probably a good number could use counselling.

    And again, that non-consensual player killed pixels not the player behind the keyboard. 

    There have to be a age setting for games that fit the profile of the game. Some games should only be for adults and if youas an adult dont like killing pixels then just dont enter such a game.

    I know thousand of players that fit right into the description non-consensual players and they are just as well behaved real life as any carebear. Very social individuals.

    A carebear is a good description of a PvE player.

    Hey , if you want to bring real life into it , I'll tell you why these people are well behaved ,it's called jail.

     

    Don't bring real life into a game debate.

    The one that brought real life into this was the character called MagiK over at SotA forums that claim non-consensual players are sociopaths. And there were no reaction whatsoever from SotA moderators.

    So you're saying that players that like non-consensual PvP is in jail, ROFL.

    You know , I had to re read what I wrote to see what the hell you where talking about. Nope , not what I said or implied. The reason people are well behaved is fear of going to jail.

     

     

     

     

    This could end up being very interesting.

  • Big.Daddy.SamediBig.Daddy.Samedi Edmonton, ABPosts: 148Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by Rorhc
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by Dauntis

    I think the difference is calling somebody a carebear is namecalling, stating that many in the psychological field believe that some people who enjoy non-consensual PvP are likely to have sociopathic tendencies is not. It is stating an actual fact (not that they are sociopaths or not, but rather that the psychological community sees a trend in the mental behaviors of people who do).

    I would contend that when you hear the ranting and slamming keyboards and throwing things (former roommates)or conversely their perverse joy of slaughtering unarmed or extremely underlevelled or geared people and their liking it to killing children that perhaps some of those people do need help. Sure not everyone who enjoys violently ganking the innocent is suffering mental trauma, but probably a good number could use counselling.

    And again, that non-consensual player killed pixels not the player behind the keyboard. 

    There have to be a age setting for games that fit the profile of the game. Some games should only be for adults and if youas an adult dont like killing pixels then just dont enter such a game.

    I know thousand of players that fit right into the description non-consensual players and they are just as well behaved real life as any carebear. Very social individuals.

    A carebear is a good description of a PvE player.

    Hey , if you want to bring real life into it , I'll tell you why these people are well behaved ,it's called jail.

     

    Don't bring real life into a game debate.

    The one that brought real life into this was the character called MagiK over at SotA forums that claim non-consensual players are sociopaths. And there were no reaction whatsoever from SotA moderators.

    So you're saying that players that like non-consensual PvP is in jail, ROFL.

     

    I would like to bring up that MagiK did not say you were a sociopath, nor did he make a blanket statement. Let me bring your original quote of his to this reply...

     

    " I know of (that is of, not personally) MILLIONS who have managed to RP without any form of PvP They came from before a time of Computer RPG's and they existed for a couple of decades AFTER CRPGs were invented....and they still exist today. I will allow that people who wish consensual PvP have a legitimate right to that style, however I will maintain and studies have been done to indicate that those who prefer non consensual PvP are frequently exhibiting sociopathic tendencies....and may in fact need help. Also Anger Management classes may be of use to some of those individuals. "

     

    You even underlined the relevant part for me.

    So, He goes on to state that SOME people frequently exhibit signs of sociapathic tendencies. That those same people that exhibit those tendencies may (might) need help. And even that some might be helped by anger management classes.

    Once you step back from being so emotionally charged you can see that he did not include all PvPers. He simply stated that a study has shown this. I would have sited him to provide a link to said study... but he clearly did not make a blanket statement.

     

    Darn it, I think I have posted more today than I have in the last year....

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,466Member Uncommon

    If it was my forums i would remove a lot of the stereotypical words and problem words.I have mentioned that even this site should use a form of word blocking.

    You can't tell me you want to maintain a freedom of speech yet have a ton of rules on this site AND others that do exactly the opposite,it is hypocritical.

    Words like Troll,carebear,haters SHOULD be removed or blocked,it is no different than removing hate speech because that is exactly the INTENT of the people that use them.Not one single person could tell me that when one poster calls another poster a TROLL they are saying "Hello how are you",their intent is of hate/anger and a personal attack,NO other reason at all.

    Yes it is a fine line when you use those words with no direct attack but generalize about a large group of people,but i would be concerned with the direct use of those terms.As i said the easiest and most efficient way to PROVE your site or forum cares,is to remove them altogether,word blockers are everyone's friend.

    I will use yet another example.This site for example will praise Kings Isle for the work they do in Wiz101 which does utilize tons of word blocking,yet this site does not condone the same thing,yes it is hypocritical or fake or both.

    Bottom line is i do support SOTA for not wanting problem words in their forums,how they handle it would be open to discussion of course but it is imo a good starting point.

     


    Samoan Diamond

  • InsaneMembraneInsaneMembrane SydneyPosts: 130Member
    Originally posted by syriinx
    I like the use of the word carebear.  Because once i see it I know that the post is worthless and to not even bother reading it anymore.

    LOL, ziiiiinng :)

     

     

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways BangladeshPosts: 1,048Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aragon100

    One word that isnt allowed over at SotA website is the word carebear. That is a forbidden word to use when describing the PvE players. Ridicolous to say the least.

    And here is a good example of what moderators at SotA allow when it comes to carebears describing the PvP players that enjoy non-consensual PvP and i quote -

    " I know of (that is of, not personally) MILLIONS who have managed to RP without any form of PvP They came from before a time of Computer RPG's and they existed for a couple of decades AFTER CRPGs were invented....and they still exist today. I will allow that people who wish consensual PvP have a legitimate right to that style, however I will maintain and studies have been done to indicate that those who prefer non consensual PvP are frequently exhibiting sociopathic tendencies....and may in fact need help. Also Anger Management classes may be of use to some of those individuals. " end qoute.

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-glass-is-half-empty-a-look-inside-why-people-are-opposed-to-open-pvp-and-full-loot.3140/page-8#post-59484

    This character named magiK on the SotA forums is allowed to put all these players together and call them sick people. Players that indeed enjoy a risk vs reward game with consequences should seek help cause they just are'nt not well. 

     

     

     

    Creating one after another thread to spread hatred toward SoTA proves that you are indeed the case written in RED in your post. Take the advice in those red lines and seek counseling.

    i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
    Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  • OmaliOmali MMO Business Correspondent Orchard Park, NYPosts: 1,114Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aragon100

    You PvE players are just a bunch of hypocrits that turn your cape the wind blows, pathetic.

    I don't know about socipathic tendencies, but the study was right about your very clear anger management issues. Try having a conversation without attacking other people.

    Check out my monthly column on MMORPG.com.

    image

  • GwapoJoshGwapoJosh Auburn, INPosts: 991Member Uncommon
    Thank Jebus for this.. In my honest opinion, people calling others c-bears are d-bags.

    "You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
    image

  • neorandomneorandom bev hills, CAPosts: 1,681Member
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by RebelScum99
    Are you saying a carebear hurt your feelings?  

    Nah i dont take it personal but i'm surpriced that the moderators over at SotA allow a carebear to call others mentally sick cause they enjoy a different playstyle.

    well then obviously the mods/devs are hardcore carebears (like having a singalong and everything on mumble while pveing)

  • InsaneMembraneInsaneMembrane SydneyPosts: 130Member
    Originally posted by neorandom
    Originally posted by Aragon100
    Originally posted by RebelScum99
    Are you saying a carebear hurt your feelings?  

    Nah i dont take it personal but i'm surpriced that the moderators over at SotA allow a carebear to call others mentally sick cause they enjoy a different playstyle.

    well then obviously the mods/devs are hardcore carebears (like having a singalong and everything on mumble while pveing)

    There is a clear difference guys in the amount of people who use c-bear as a straight out troll and personal attack. The sicko thing that Magick has posted is also a bit too much,[mod edit]

    When I use the world cbear, I'm trolling hard. So you can understand why they have banned its use, to prevent trollers like me from trolling.

  • neorandomneorandom bev hills, CAPosts: 1,681Member

    carebear isnt a trolling, its a term for eve players that hide in full law systems of 8-10 to avoid piracy.

     

    while eve wasnt a fun game due to its horrible lack of interactive combat, it did have pvp that would have been great if the combat was fun.  it had relatively "safe" areas where people were only going to attack you in disposable crap because the law was going to annihilate them seconds after they fired.  low sec, which they would take a hit in faction for fighting with you, but nobody was going to attack them back except other players.  and no sec space, where the only law was might makes right.

     

    high and no sec were very often combat free, other then the occasional gate camp in no sec and of course invasions of pirates bases by other pirates (the big pirate clans).

     

    the real question we should be asking, is why anyone on a no budget, crap game like shroud of avatar even cares about carebears and pvp?

  • InsaneMembraneInsaneMembrane SydneyPosts: 130Member
    Originally posted by neorandom

    carebear isnt a trolling, its a term for eve players that hide in full law systems of 8-10 to avoid piracy.

     

    while eve wasnt a fun game due to its horrible lack of interactive combat, it did have pvp that would have been great if the combat was fun.  it had relatively "safe" areas where people were only going to attack you in disposable crap because the law was going to annihilate them seconds after they fired.  low sec, which they would take a hit in faction for fighting with you, but nobody was going to attack them back except other players.  and no sec space, where the only law was might makes right.

     

    high and no sec were very often combat free, other then the occasional gate camp in no sec and of course invasions of pirates bases by other pirates (the big pirate clans).

     

    the real question we should be asking, is why anyone on a no budget, crap game like shroud of avatar even cares about carebears and pvp?

     

    Cos there are all different kinds of players?

  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member


    Originally posted by Aragon100

    Originally posted by syriinx I like the use of the word carebear.  Because once i see it I know that the post is worthless and to not even bother reading it anymore.
    So why did you read this then?

    Do you also like it when players that enjoy non-consensual PvP are described as sociopaths that need medical help?

     


    if as your original post says, there have been studies to prove sociopathical behavior, then I have a lot less of a problem with that then a word like carebare which is just derrogatory slang.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • reploidxreploidx Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 320Member Uncommon

    Actually had a chuckle about this, it seems like you got kicked from there and you are now crying here about this guy. It looks like he has you pegged though, you are acting like this is an insult to you, but you are insulting him and claiming innocence. Don't act like your shit don't stink.

    And since no one posted this. U MAD BRO?

  • ianicusianicus Calgary, ABPosts: 472Member
    as long as you decide to group a segment of players under the "carebear" label, there will be folks who do the opposite, how about let people play the way they like, and if its not nice? shut yer trap.

    image

  • psiicpsiic Tampa, FLPosts: 946Member Uncommon
    Come on give them a break they just trying to keep the bears out they don't wanna risk no pedobears sneakin in
  • neorandomneorandom bev hills, CAPosts: 1,681Member

    so i went to the website of this game to see what all the fuss was.

     

    its not an mmorpg.

     

    its not even a pvp rpg.

     

    its diablo via lord brittish.

     

    it has single player and mall group play, and the ability to lobby pug group play.

     

    and its chargeing a fortune for rent free houseing (base package for a shitty rent free house lot is $550) and theres no sign of pvp.  not that there could be much in the way of  pvp in a game world that isnt hosted online in a persistent open fashion in the first place.

     

    nope, if you want to burn peoples houses down and whatnot in this one, youll have to hit the data centers.

  • GaladournGaladourn AthensPosts: 1,052Member
    I don't know wheter the 'non-consensual PvP crowd' are sociopaths, but I sure as hell do know that the gameplay they like is boring beyond belief. I used to play Darkfall and what it all boiled down to was clans sieging ad infinitum each other for the sake of sieging. There was no purpose in PvP, I swear Battlegrounds in WoW had more meaning.
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