Originally posted by DavisFlightNow, you have ONE kind of AAA MMO, the WoW clone, and most aren't successful. Now the variety is , WoW in MIddle Earth, WoW in space, WoW with rifts, or WoW with wings?
Nah .. you view is too narrow.
Now you have traditional themepark MMORPGs, MOBAs, instanced combat games like WOT, instanced pve games like Vindictus, online ARPGs, MMO FPS .....
I like now much better than the UO/EQ time.
Your view is way too broad. When discussing the MMORPG genre you don't include aRPG, MMOFPS, MOBA etc. Those are completely different genres of games.
The MMORPG genre is in a really bad place atm. Almost every single title released in the past 5 years went free to play in under 2 years time and not by choice.
I'd like to say that I'm not *unhappy* but I have to admit that a lot of the time I feel like I'm nibbling at the edges of other peoples' games rather than playing a game for me.
I'm just not sure if that's a problem with the genre or with me.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Now, you have ONE kind of AAA MMO, the WoW clone, and most aren't successful.Now the variety is , WoW in MIddle Earth, WoW in space, WoW with rifts, or WoW with wings?
Nah .. you view is too narrow.Now you have traditional themepark MMORPGs, MOBAs, instanced combat games like WOT, instanced pve games like Vindictus, online ARPGs, MMO FPS .....I like now much better than the UO/EQ time.
MOBA. NOT an MMORPG, is it? ARPGs. NOT an MMORPG is it? MMOFPS. NOT an MMORPG, is it?
You really have no clue what "genre" means. Look it up. Here is a link to help you out.
Your movie and TV analogy was laughable, too. 2 very BROAD genres (again that dratted word) compared to one very narrow genre of ONE type of computer game. Now, if you want to say, "I like computer games." then your analogy works. Or "I like dramatic movies." The square peg is not fitting into the round hole.
Would you be pissed if your beloved Iron Man movies turned into sappy romances? What if Fast 6 was all about mystery and character development instead of fast cars and big explosions? I know. You don't care.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
There hasn't been any proper MMORPGs for past few years. I've played almost everything out there, and the genre feels stuck in mud.
The feeling of vanilla WoW (or Burning Crusade) is something no MMORPG has managed to reach.
Neverwinter had great combat, but seriously lacked depth - not to mention the P2W, linearity etc. But the combat was something new. I really would wish to see that implemented in a MMORPG with real depth, open world (and the PvP that comes with it)...
The genre is horrible, there are NO games that capture our attention or hearts like... WOW...EQ...EQ2. There are just money grab SHALLOW quick fixes..FFARR, GW2, that we try in hopes of capturing our MMO desires. There is a reason we compare all the new games to the above mentioned...because those games in one form or another have EVERYTHING we all want. Hence the staying power and loyality of said games.I Dont know why it is so difficult for devs to understand what everyone TRULY wants...THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING!!!! STOP MAKING SHI_ _ Y GAMES!!!!
Originally posted by bentrim The genre is horrible, there are NO games that capture our attention or hearts like... WOW...EQ...EQ2. There are just money grab SHALLOW quick fixes..FFARR, GW2, that we try in hopes of capturing our MMO desires. There is a reason we compare all the new games to the above mentioned...because those games in one form or another have EVERYTHING we all want. Hence the staying power and loyality of said games.I Dont know why it is so difficult for devs to understand what everyone TRULY wants...THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING!!!! STOP MAKING SHI_ _ Y GAMES!!!!
The highlighted part sounds pretty weird to me. If those games have everything YOU want (emphasis on YOU, you're not allowed to speak for me or anyone else), where's the problem? Just play them, and be done with it!
Personally, when a game gives me everything I want, I'm playing it. Of course, I will try new games that come out, but I won't be all mad if they don't fit my tastes, I will just go back the game which gives me everything.
Originally posted by jpnz I am. Enjoying Swtor and gw2 mmo wise atm.
I always try to enjoy life. GW2 and SWToR are really working for me atm. The community I participate in SWToR is simply great. I also enjoy the story based instances quite a bit. On the other hand, I really enjoy the pve and pvp in GW2. Both games seem to be going along despite the haters.
We got a lot of barely working games but they showed us the potential of the genre. Spent the next 15 years slowly making each individual system work. Trying to get back to what we all thought it would be. But done in a working, visually stunning, and more visceral experience.
Originally posted by DeivosI'm never happy.I remain fascinated by the genre, but it's still in large due to it's potential rather than it's reality.
these parts.
"potential" roughly translated: My personal list of make or break features.
The opposite of that. I say potential is more about the features that no-one is asking for because no-one has thought about them. Potential is something that only gets realised when developers sit down and think "what if..?".
I worked at a company that asked "What if?" .... Unfortunately after spending a lot of $ the company went under. The secondary questions are also just as important in game development:
How much will it cost?
How long will it take me to build?
What is its value to the game?
Others have posted bits and pieces of the problem with MMOs, such as the gamers, the WoW clones, themeparks, etc. I think the genre changed fairly early on in it's existence when developers saw how much money was being made by the gold farmers, account/item sellers in EQ (Jonathan Yantis w/Yantis Enterprises, MySuperSales). This is where the seed was planted for things like cash shops and micro-transactions in MMOs. Everyone knows the story of how Yantis sold his gold selling operation to IGE for $2.4 million + shares which ended up being sold for another $22 million, and this was all before WoW was released.
So to the person that mentioned that we the gamers are partially responsible for the state of MMOs for buying the "bad" games, let us not forget we the gamer also bought the gold, items and accounts which fed the gold farmers.
I think there are a few games coming out in the near future that appear to be embracing the roots of the genre, while at the same time pushing it forward are signs of good things to come for the genre. The novelty of the early MMOS has worn off and the genre has made its way to the next generation of game designers. Overall I would say I am fine with the MMORPG genre today and going forward.
I was somewhat happy with SWTOR at launch but after that enjoyment ran it's course I'm nearly completely burnt out on MMORPGs altogether. I've been on a very long break from them and EQ Landmark is the only thing that interests me. Maybe after long enough I might be able to put up with playing them again but that is unlikely because there are so many more fun SP games and MP games that have a far greater multiplayer aspect than MMORPGs have.
I worked at a company that asked "What if?" .... Unfortunately after spending a lot of $ the company went under.
Thing is, without people asking "what if" and willing to take risks, we would most likely still live in caves, eating raw food (since fire would involve a "what if"), and of course none of the modern comfort and no Internet.
It's because of the lack of "what if" people that the genre stagnated for 8 years with WoW clone after WoW clone. Thankfully, some AAA developers are again asking "what if", and things start to change for the best.
Meh not unhappy. No one game has enough options to keep my interest for too long so I bounce between several games. MMO's could really use a non-combat and economy reboot IMHO. I miss my non-combat (or combat lite) character from my UO days.
Originally posted by bentrim The genre is horrible, there are NO games that capture our attention or hearts like... WOW...EQ...EQ2. There are just money grab SHALLOW quick fixes..FFARR, GW2, that we try in hopes of capturing our MMO desires. There is a reason we compare all the new games to the above mentioned...because those games in one form or another have EVERYTHING we all want. Hence the staying power and loyality of said games.I Dont know why it is so difficult for devs to understand what everyone TRULY wants...THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING!!!! STOP MAKING SHI_ _ Y GAMES!!!!
The highlighted part sounds pretty weird to me. If those games have everything YOU want (emphasis on YOU, you're not allowed to speak for me or anyone else), where's the problem? Just play them, and be done with it!Personally, when a game gives me everything I want, I'm playing it. Of course, I will try new games that come out, but I won't be all mad if they don't fit my tastes, I will just go back the game which gives me everything.
How many times must people remind others that old MMOs are NOT the same as they once were. EQ is not like the EQ of old. Neither is WoW or EQ2, or UO, or any of the older MMOs. Try to stop using that inaccurate argument.
As for the highlighted part, I would just add that most of the games also had aspects in them some players did not want, or know they wanted, too For me, they were not perfect. Yet they were a far cry more fun (for me) than today's MMOs.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by DavisFlight Now, you have ONE kind of AAA MMO, the WoW clone, and most aren't successful.
Now the variety is , WoW in MIddle Earth, WoW in space, WoW with rifts, or WoW with wings?
Nah .. you view is too narrow.
Now you have traditional themepark MMORPGs, MOBAs, instanced combat games like WOT, instanced pve games like Vindictus, online ARPGs, MMO FPS .....
I like now much better than the UO/EQ time.
MOBA. NOT an MMORPG, is it? ARPGs. NOT an MMORPG is it? MMOFPS. NOT an MMORPG, is it?
You really have no clue what "genre" means. Look it up. Here is a link to help you out.
Would you be pissed if your beloved Iron Man movies turned into sappy romances? What if Fast 6 was all about mystery and character development instead of fast cars and big explosions? I know. You don't care.
So what if they are not MMORPGs? I don't play games just in one genre, nor the genre label important to me.
Pissed? I would simply go watch Superman instead. There are so much entertainment that invariably some cater to my taste.
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by AlBQuirkyOriginally posted by nariusseldonOriginally posted by DavisFlightNow, you have ONE kind of AAA MMO, the WoW clone, and most aren't successful.Now the variety is , WoW in MIddle Earth, WoW in space, WoW with rifts, or WoW with wings?
Nah .. you view is too narrow.Now you have traditional themepark MMORPGs, MOBAs, instanced combat games like WOT, instanced pve games like Vindictus, online ARPGs, MMO FPS .....I like now much better than the UO/EQ time.MOBA. NOT an MMORPG, is it? ARPGs. NOT an MMORPG is it? MMOFPS. NOT an MMORPG, is it?You really have no clue what "genre" means. Look it up. Here is a link to help you out.Would you be pissed if your beloved Iron Man movies turned into sappy romances? What if Fast 6 was all about mystery and character development instead of fast cars and big explosions? I know. You don't care.So what if they are not MMORPGs? I don't play games just in one genre, nor the genre label important to me.
Pissed? I would simply go watch Superman instead. There are so much entertainment that invariably some cater to my taste.
Having fun playing WvW in GW2 unfortunately none of my buddies will play with me and the WvW has some serious issues.
I'm not terribly impressed with the genera as a whole though...Too many Copy/pasted concepts, without the understanding of WHY those systems were implemented in the first place. Too many games in cash grab mode, where they hype up a bad game, break even with box sales, and cash out on what ever subs they can get their mitts on before people bail.
The genera has so much POTENTIAL!
Companies are just too unwilling to take a risk. From a business perspective I get it. Why take a chance when you can just pound out another WoW clone and make 25-40% ROI?
As a gamer it drives me up a freaking wall. I want someone to break out of the BOX. That's why i'm looking forward to crowdfunded games with SC and CU. That way we can see some games that go in different directions.
25-40% ROI ??????? I will give you ALL my money and investments if you put me into something that returns only 15% ROI. Sorry there is.. NOTHING.. that will return return that kind of percentage!
Am I happy with the MMORPG genre? I don't play the genre, just individual games.
I have a couple games that I play semi-regularly, and I'm happy with them. Overall, most of the games in the MMORPG genre don't appeal to me, so I don't play them. That's fine since I enjoy the ones that I do play.
The way I've come to look at things, the genre could be doing great, or the genre could be going to crap, but either way it's not really my problem. If something releases that looks good, I'll check it out. If not, I don't really care. It's not worth the stress getting frustrated over entertainment.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Comments
Nah .. you view is too narrow.
Now you have traditional themepark MMORPGs, MOBAs, instanced combat games like WOT, instanced pve games like Vindictus, online ARPGs, MMO FPS .....
I like now much better than the UO/EQ time.
I have replaced my MMO of choice with a little game called Progress Quest.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
Or to put it another way, you have MMORPG, MMOFPS, and a bunch of other non-MMO stuff.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Your view is way too broad. When discussing the MMORPG genre you don't include aRPG, MMOFPS, MOBA etc. Those are completely different genres of games.
The MMORPG genre is in a really bad place atm. Almost every single title released in the past 5 years went free to play in under 2 years time and not by choice.
I'd like to say that I'm not *unhappy* but I have to admit that a lot of the time I feel like I'm nibbling at the edges of other peoples' games rather than playing a game for me.
I'm just not sure if that's a problem with the genre or with me.
___________________________
Have flask; will travel.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
You really have no clue what "genre" means. Look it up. Here is a link to help you out.
Your movie and TV analogy was laughable, too. 2 very BROAD genres (again that dratted word) compared to one very narrow genre of ONE type of computer game. Now, if you want to say, "I like computer games." then your analogy works. Or "I like dramatic movies." The square peg is not fitting into the round hole.
Would you be pissed if your beloved Iron Man movies turned into sappy romances? What if Fast 6 was all about mystery and character development instead of fast cars and big explosions? I know. You don't care.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Far from happy.
There hasn't been any proper MMORPGs for past few years. I've played almost everything out there, and the genre feels stuck in mud.
The feeling of vanilla WoW (or Burning Crusade) is something no MMORPG has managed to reach.
Neverwinter had great combat, but seriously lacked depth - not to mention the P2W, linearity etc. But the combat was something new. I really would wish to see that implemented in a MMORPG with real depth, open world (and the PvP that comes with it)...
The highlighted part sounds pretty weird to me. If those games have everything YOU want (emphasis on YOU, you're not allowed to speak for me or anyone else), where's the problem? Just play them, and be done with it!
Personally, when a game gives me everything I want, I'm playing it. Of course, I will try new games that come out, but I won't be all mad if they don't fit my tastes, I will just go back the game which gives me everything.
My computer is better than yours.
I always try to enjoy life. GW2 and SWToR are really working for me atm. The community I participate in SWToR is simply great. I also enjoy the story based instances quite a bit. On the other hand, I really enjoy the pve and pvp in GW2. Both games seem to be going along despite the haters.
A brief history of mmorpgs in my own words:
We got a lot of barely working games but they showed us the potential of the genre. Spent the next 15 years slowly making each individual system work. Trying to get back to what we all thought it would be. But done in a working, visually stunning, and more visceral experience.
We're getting there. Slowly but surely.
I worked at a company that asked "What if?" .... Unfortunately after spending a lot of $ the company went under. The secondary questions are also just as important in game development:
How much will it cost?
How long will it take me to build?
What is its value to the game?
Others have posted bits and pieces of the problem with MMOs, such as the gamers, the WoW clones, themeparks, etc. I think the genre changed fairly early on in it's existence when developers saw how much money was being made by the gold farmers, account/item sellers in EQ (Jonathan Yantis w/Yantis Enterprises, MySuperSales). This is where the seed was planted for things like cash shops and micro-transactions in MMOs. Everyone knows the story of how Yantis sold his gold selling operation to IGE for $2.4 million + shares which ended up being sold for another $22 million, and this was all before WoW was released.
So to the person that mentioned that we the gamers are partially responsible for the state of MMOs for buying the "bad" games, let us not forget we the gamer also bought the gold, items and accounts which fed the gold farmers.
I think there are a few games coming out in the near future that appear to be embracing the roots of the genre, while at the same time pushing it forward are signs of good things to come for the genre. The novelty of the early MMOS has worn off and the genre has made its way to the next generation of game designers. Overall I would say I am fine with the MMORPG genre today and going forward.
Thing is, without people asking "what if" and willing to take risks, we would most likely still live in caves, eating raw food (since fire would involve a "what if"), and of course none of the modern comfort and no Internet.
It's because of the lack of "what if" people that the genre stagnated for 8 years with WoW clone after WoW clone. Thankfully, some AAA developers are again asking "what if", and things start to change for the best.
My computer is better than yours.
I am terribly disappointed with what MMOs have become...........
I am keeping an eye on the Indie MMO hoping that they can deliver something that resemble my idea of a MMO
Star Citizen, Pathfinder, Shroud of the Avatar are all on my radar.
EQNext, ESO and Wildstar seems to be too generic to attract my interest.
Archeage could be the only AAA that could be good enough, although silly stuff like swimsuits and cars in game cooled my hype a tiny bit.
My computer is better than yours.
As for the highlighted part, I would just add that most of the games also had aspects in them some players did not want, or know they wanted, too
For me, they were not perfect. Yet they were a far cry more fun (for me) than today's MMOs.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
So what if they are not MMORPGs? I don't play games just in one genre, nor the genre label important to me.
Pissed? I would simply go watch Superman instead. There are so much entertainment that invariably some cater to my taste.
MOBA. NOT an MMORPG, is it? ARPGs. NOT an MMORPG is it? MMOFPS. NOT an MMORPG, is it? You really have no clue what "genre" means. Look it up. Here is a link to help you out. Would you be pissed if your beloved Iron Man movies turned into sappy romances? What if Fast 6 was all about mystery and character development instead of fast cars and big explosions? I know. You don't care.
So what if they are not MMORPGs? I don't play games just in one genre, nor the genre label important to me.
Pissed? I would simply go watch Superman instead. There are so much entertainment that invariably some cater to my taste.
Welcome to arguing with nariusseldon.
Am I currently happy? sorta.....
Having fun playing WvW in GW2 unfortunately none of my buddies will play with me and the WvW has some serious issues.
I'm not terribly impressed with the genera as a whole though...Too many Copy/pasted concepts, without the understanding of WHY those systems were implemented in the first place. Too many games in cash grab mode, where they hype up a bad game, break even with box sales, and cash out on what ever subs they can get their mitts on before people bail.
The genera has so much POTENTIAL!
Companies are just too unwilling to take a risk. From a business perspective I get it. Why take a chance when you can just pound out another WoW clone and make 25-40% ROI?
As a gamer it drives me up a freaking wall. I want someone to break out of the BOX. That's why i'm looking forward to crowdfunded games with SC and CU. That way we can see some games that go in different directions.
Am I happy with the MMORPG genre? I don't play the genre, just individual games.
I have a couple games that I play semi-regularly, and I'm happy with them. Overall, most of the games in the MMORPG genre don't appeal to me, so I don't play them. That's fine since I enjoy the ones that I do play.
The way I've come to look at things, the genre could be doing great, or the genre could be going to crap, but either way it's not really my problem. If something releases that looks good, I'll check it out. If not, I don't really care. It's not worth the stress getting frustrated over entertainment.