Having a class restriction based on race in a MMO where you have 40+ classes to mix, it would simply put you in a totally unfair decision where you have decide something at a time simply without any facts to base your decision on.
Not only that, but I would think that in a game where there are 40+ classes to try and work with, it would be easier for the devs to figure out how those classes balance without having to take further racial restrictions into play. Balancing all those classes against each other with everything else being equal makes more sense, IMO.
Oh, while I don't know that I care strongly one way or the other I am feeling cynical about all the nice excuses. They said polls would influence them and threw that out the window when fans disagreed with their thinking. Polls for validation rarely work out. Honestly I am wondering if it's really more about catering to all those casual players that DEVs say their server stats show don't really want to level more than one character through the content anymore because they've been there, done that?
In a perfect world they would be able to balance the game around class/race restrictions based on lore. As explained video however, it's just impractical. If the devs did try to balance it, they would just fail. Then we would have overpowered races and underpowered ones; which would change when new items and classes were added in the game.
Frankly, it's a waste of time. It's better just to deal with some people picking obnoxious race/class combinations. This allows the devs to focus on more substantive issues.
What's also worth mentioning: they didn't state that there wouldn't be statistical or ability differences between the races. Just no broad class restrictions. There was no indication that it would be easy for "evil" races to pick up "good" classes (or the other way around). There is still some possibility for difference between race.
Sounds crap since I felt out of place being a good dark elf in eq2 which took alot of effort and unsoloable towards the last bit of the betrayal quest. Much as I would feel out of place being an Ogre rogue.
If they were never going to change it, they shouldn't have asked the question. It just makes everyone think there's no point to contributing to future round tables.
I don't think any roles should be locked off to certain races, but some flavour classes for races should exist. How a gnome plays a defender role should be different to how an ogre plays a defender role.
In addition, playing an Ogre or Barbarian used to mean something.. It meant more strength.. Elves had more Intel.. It just doesn't feel right when a gnome warrior can EQUAL the power of an ogre warrior.. Or now with EQN, an Ogre can be as smart as an elf..
In addition, playing an Ogre or Barbarian used to mean something.. It meant more strength.. Elves had more Intel.. It just doesn't feel right when a gnome warrior can EQUAL the power of an ogre warrior.. Or now with EQN, an Ogre can be as smart as an elf..
/shrug
I'm sure there will be some reasonable explanation, like maybe in universe ogres are dumber than elves, but spellpower is not dependent on intelligence, and attack power is less about pure strength and more a combination of strength and style with ogres focusing more on strength and less on style with elves being the opposite, but everything balancing out to give them the same attack power.
While I have nothing against open systems with penalties, we haven't been seeing many of those. Generally, no race restrictions means no restrictions at all.
A system where races have different starting points and advancement equations would be fine for me, making inappropriate combinations unlikely and detrimental. I just doubt we'll be seeing that here... that's too cool for most developers.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW Currently playing: GW2, EVE Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Well I just hope they let you swap your race as easily as your class.
No reason not to given that both will have about the same impact on what your character can do in game
All they said was that they don't want race to be a limiting factor when it comes to being able to get classes. That was all.
There was no mention of how the rest of the game will deal with a persons choice of race.
There was no change in how easy or hard it would be to aquire classes (as it wasn't mentioned).
There was no change in how race choice will affect factions in the game.
There was no change in how factions will play a role in aquiring classes.
It is possible that there will be meaning choices to make when choosing a race. Chose an Ogre and you may not be able to aquire classes from Humans or Elves until you work some serious faction. You may not be able to be a very effective wizard with such a small "mana" pool. So Items to enhance your stats would be required.
It is possible that there will be meaning choices to make when choosing a race. Chose an Ogre and you may not be able to aquire classes from Humans or Elves until you work some serious faction. You may not be able to be a very effective wizard with such a small "mana" pool. So Items to enhance your stats would be required.
I hope you are right. It would be fine to have no class restrictions so long as there were logical and meaningful upsides and downsides. Then, if you saw an unusual race/class combination, it would mean that was someone who was willing to battle uphill to do what they believed.
I'm an individual that believes racial flavor is imperative for the sake of immersion. Initially, you can blind players to this by providing a rich racial background incorporated into the story along with extremely developed cities and non-playable characters. However, as time progresses, the awe fades and you realize that the race you're playing doesn't feel like a unique race. This is why racial flavor is so important, and the dwindling awe typically starts mid game.
My ideal consists of extremely unique races that provide a playing style efficient with every class. I don't like races being restricted from any given class, but I do enjoy the idea of them taking a slightly different approach to a class that they would, typically, be seen as weak in.
For example, a Gnome warrior in any game looks downright absurd, you'd expect them to lack in strength needed to deliver those devastating blows and take them from the enemy. Well, perhaps that Gnome's dexterity awards them with a increased chance to dodge that makes up for their inability to take a hit, compensation through a practical alteration. Maybe they can't wield two handed weapons, but maybe they excel greatly with more finesse oriented weapons.
The weapons bit may have been a bit too extreme, I'm very conflicted when it comes to actual states...but I firmly believe in racial abilities. Without at least them, you end up feeling like nothing more than a human wearing the skin of another race, there's just nothing unique about the class that provides you with anything that would give you a sense of actually playing something different than a human.
These racial abilities help define a race and differentiate them from one another after the awe of the in game elements begins to fade, after you've grown accustom to your surroundings...you actually feel part of them rather than feeling like a human locked within the simplistic appearance of the drastically unique concept you see around you.
Sure, it's difficult to balance...but it's a huge aspect of the game, in my opinion, that needs implemented in order to ensure that long term enjoyment remains possible. Each race being unique and bringing something new to the pot, so to speak, is one of the things that makes an MMORPG great.
I've a heart of pure black jade, beating forth the ebon ink of shattered dreams. So spread those thighs my darlings, and let me hear those lustful screams... For twisting coils and silken strands, my venom coursing through your veins. It's my bliss you seek, to ease those troubled pains...
I can understand the position of no race restrictions although lore clearly defines certain races as good/evil...
I do however feel there should be class restrictions. A Paladin should never be able to get Shadowknight skills and vice versa. You typically will walk a path of good/evil, law/chaos, religion/science or whatever your polar opposite factions maybe and this should be apparent in the choices you make...
I am all for someone transitioning from good to evil but they lose the ability to use the good skills but can still get them back should they walk that path back...
I understand there is a neutrality amongst certain classes I am specifically talking about those that are opposites.
No class restricted by race is a good choice for their game play design.
However, this does not mean that they couldn't:
1. Have a 3% better at casting v melee depending on Race
2. Have unique racial passives and spells that would be unique ( e.g. Shadowmeld from wow, treasure finding, underwater breathing, cannibalize, and similar).
Racial abilitys can work if done right. Make a bad decisions on them its the same as restricting classes to some Races.
There are basicly three ways racials can work:
Flavor
This abilities have no real use besides giving the race some flavor. Like calling a non-battle machine pet for a Gnome, heatvision as a woodelf, or changing skin clolor.
Convenience
This are the abilities that should be used in my opinion. They give some advantages but not being gamebreakers. Let the gnomes build machines 20% faster. Give the Kerran he extra out of combat sprint. And so on. Nothing that breaks the gameplay, but things that gives you an easier life sometimes.
Gameplay
This are the abilities that can break races as a whole for the gameplay. An extra Stunbreak and this race will dominate pvp. Faster casting time? this race if you want to play a caster. 10% more constitution, perfect for tanking.
I'm all for Flavor and convenience abilities for Races but no gameplay abilities. This should be done through your class abilities.
I don't completely disagree with what they said but I still feel it is a copout. YOu don't have to go into every game knowing 100% what every decision you make means. I go into most games as a melee based healer but it isn't the devs responsibility to spell out to me just how that class works, I might hate the mechanics about it and decide to reroll but they don't have to protect me from myself here. As long as every class choice is viable in some way they have covered themselves.
No class restricted by race is a good choice for their game play design.
However, this does not mean that they couldn't:
1. Have a 3% better at casting v melee depending on Race
2. Have unique racial passives and spells that would be unique ( e.g. Shadowmeld from wow, treasure finding, underwater breathing, cannibalize, and similar).
I do want to see some differences.
exactly. I love that there is no class/race restriction but each race MUST have racial passives (and maybe even racial actives) that make each class different between races. There is no way in hell a big lion warrior should perform the same as a tiny gnome girl warrior. Both races know how to be a warrior but the race should affect the class in some way.
No class restricted by race is a good choice for their game play design.
However, this does not mean that they couldn't:
1. Have a 3% better at casting v melee depending on Race
2. Have unique racial passives and spells that would be unique ( e.g. Shadowmeld from wow, treasure finding, underwater breathing, cannibalize, and similar).
I do want to see some differences.
Originally posted by Enrif
Racial abilitys can work if done right. Make a bad decisions on them its the same as restricting classes to some Races.
There are basicly three ways racials can work:
Flavor
This abilities have no real use besides giving the race some flavor. Like calling a non-battle machine pet for a Gnome, heatvision as a woodelf, or changing skin clolor.
Convenience
This are the abilities that should be used in my opinion. They give some advantages but not being gamebreakers. Let the gnomes build machines 20% faster. Give the Kerran he extra out of combat sprint. And so on. Nothing that breaks the gameplay, but things that gives you an easier life sometimes.
Gameplay
This are the abilities that can break races as a whole for the gameplay. An extra Stunbreak and this race will dominate pvp. Faster casting time? this race if you want to play a caster. 10% more constitution, perfect for tanking.
I'm all for Flavor and convenience abilities for Races but no gameplay abilities. This should be done through your class abilities.
Originally posted by rojo6934
Originally posted by Thupli
No class restricted by race is a good choice for their game play design.
However, this does not mean that they couldn't:
1. Have a 3% better at casting v melee depending on Race
2. Have unique racial passives and spells that would be unique ( e.g. Shadowmeld from wow, treasure finding, underwater breathing, cannibalize, and similar).
I do want to see some differences.
exactly. I love that there is no class/race restriction but each race MUST have racial passives (and maybe even racial actives) that make each class different between races. There is no way in hell a big lion warrior should perform the same as a tiny gnome girl warrior. Both races know how to be a warrior but the race should affect the class in some way.
I pretty much agree with all of these quotes.
I have never been fond of restricting a race from any given class, but racial flavor is a must. I'm exceptionally fond of racial abilities and potentially racial weaknesses that aren't game breaking...but provide a unique feel to the race you're playing. When it comes to statistical variations, that's a slippery slope...but as long as it doesn't trap people into any particular race to be effective with any particular class, I'm okay with that as well.
Either way, in any game, races need to feel different...or you're going to be left without any sense of immersion after the awe of the surrounding material wears off come around mid-game. You won't feel part of the race you're playing.
I've a heart of pure black jade, beating forth the ebon ink of shattered dreams. So spread those thighs my darlings, and let me hear those lustful screams... For twisting coils and silken strands, my venom coursing through your veins. It's my bliss you seek, to ease those troubled pains...
Comments
Not only that, but I would think that in a game where there are 40+ classes to try and work with, it would be easier for the devs to figure out how those classes balance without having to take further racial restrictions into play. Balancing all those classes against each other with everything else being equal makes more sense, IMO.
In a perfect world they would be able to balance the game around class/race restrictions based on lore. As explained video however, it's just impractical. If the devs did try to balance it, they would just fail. Then we would have overpowered races and underpowered ones; which would change when new items and classes were added in the game.
Frankly, it's a waste of time. It's better just to deal with some people picking obnoxious race/class combinations. This allows the devs to focus on more substantive issues.
What's also worth mentioning: they didn't state that there wouldn't be statistical or ability differences between the races. Just no broad class restrictions. There was no indication that it would be easy for "evil" races to pick up "good" classes (or the other way around). There is still some possibility for difference between race.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
If they were never going to change it, they shouldn't have asked the question. It just makes everyone think there's no point to contributing to future round tables.
I don't think any roles should be locked off to certain races, but some flavour classes for races should exist. How a gnome plays a defender role should be different to how an ogre plays a defender role.
In addition, playing an Ogre or Barbarian used to mean something.. It meant more strength.. Elves had more Intel.. It just doesn't feel right when a gnome warrior can EQUAL the power of an ogre warrior.. Or now with EQN, an Ogre can be as smart as an elf..
/shrug
I'm sure there will be some reasonable explanation, like maybe in universe ogres are dumber than elves, but spellpower is not dependent on intelligence, and attack power is less about pure strength and more a combination of strength and style with ogres focusing more on strength and less on style with elves being the opposite, but everything balancing out to give them the same attack power.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Blergh. Well, not good news for me at all.
While I have nothing against open systems with penalties, we haven't been seeing many of those. Generally, no race restrictions means no restrictions at all.
A system where races have different starting points and advancement equations would be fine for me, making inappropriate combinations unlikely and detrimental. I just doubt we'll be seeing that here... that's too cool for most developers.
Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
Currently playing: GW2, EVE
Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?
Well I just hope they let you swap your race as easily as your class.
No reason not to given that both will have about the same impact on what your character can do in game
All they said was that they don't want race to be a limiting factor when it comes to being able to get classes. That was all.
There was no mention of how the rest of the game will deal with a persons choice of race.
There was no change in how easy or hard it would be to aquire classes (as it wasn't mentioned).
There was no change in how race choice will affect factions in the game.
There was no change in how factions will play a role in aquiring classes.
It is possible that there will be meaning choices to make when choosing a race. Chose an Ogre and you may not be able to aquire classes from Humans or Elves until you work some serious faction. You may not be able to be a very effective wizard with such a small "mana" pool. So Items to enhance your stats would be required.
I hope you are right. It would be fine to have no class restrictions so long as there were logical and meaningful upsides and downsides. Then, if you saw an unusual race/class combination, it would mean that was someone who was willing to battle uphill to do what they believed.
Yeah this has worked really bad for GW2. Game is empty and dying...
I'm an individual that believes racial flavor is imperative for the sake of immersion. Initially, you can blind players to this by providing a rich racial background incorporated into the story along with extremely developed cities and non-playable characters. However, as time progresses, the awe fades and you realize that the race you're playing doesn't feel like a unique race. This is why racial flavor is so important, and the dwindling awe typically starts mid game.
My ideal consists of extremely unique races that provide a playing style efficient with every class. I don't like races being restricted from any given class, but I do enjoy the idea of them taking a slightly different approach to a class that they would, typically, be seen as weak in.
For example, a Gnome warrior in any game looks downright absurd, you'd expect them to lack in strength needed to deliver those devastating blows and take them from the enemy. Well, perhaps that Gnome's dexterity awards them with a increased chance to dodge that makes up for their inability to take a hit, compensation through a practical alteration. Maybe they can't wield two handed weapons, but maybe they excel greatly with more finesse oriented weapons.
The weapons bit may have been a bit too extreme, I'm very conflicted when it comes to actual states...but I firmly believe in racial abilities. Without at least them, you end up feeling like nothing more than a human wearing the skin of another race, there's just nothing unique about the class that provides you with anything that would give you a sense of actually playing something different than a human.
These racial abilities help define a race and differentiate them from one another after the awe of the in game elements begins to fade, after you've grown accustom to your surroundings...you actually feel part of them rather than feeling like a human locked within the simplistic appearance of the drastically unique concept you see around you.
Sure, it's difficult to balance...but it's a huge aspect of the game, in my opinion, that needs implemented in order to ensure that long term enjoyment remains possible. Each race being unique and bringing something new to the pot, so to speak, is one of the things that makes an MMORPG great.
I've a heart of pure black jade, beating forth the ebon ink of shattered dreams. So spread those thighs my darlings, and let me hear those lustful screams... For twisting coils and silken strands, my venom coursing through your veins. It's my bliss you seek, to ease those troubled pains...
I can understand the position of no race restrictions although lore clearly defines certain races as good/evil...
I do however feel there should be class restrictions. A Paladin should never be able to get Shadowknight skills and vice versa. You typically will walk a path of good/evil, law/chaos, religion/science or whatever your polar opposite factions maybe and this should be apparent in the choices you make...
I am all for someone transitioning from good to evil but they lose the ability to use the good skills but can still get them back should they walk that path back...
I understand there is a neutrality amongst certain classes I am specifically talking about those that are opposites.
What are your other Hobbies?
Gaming is Dirt Cheap compared to this...
No class restricted by race is a good choice for their game play design.
However, this does not mean that they couldn't:
1. Have a 3% better at casting v melee depending on Race
2. Have unique racial passives and spells that would be unique ( e.g. Shadowmeld from wow, treasure finding, underwater breathing, cannibalize, and similar).
I do want to see some differences.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Racial abilitys can work if done right. Make a bad decisions on them its the same as restricting classes to some Races.
There are basicly three ways racials can work:
Flavor
This abilities have no real use besides giving the race some flavor. Like calling a non-battle machine pet for a Gnome, heatvision as a woodelf, or changing skin clolor.
Convenience
This are the abilities that should be used in my opinion. They give some advantages but not being gamebreakers. Let the gnomes build machines 20% faster. Give the Kerran he extra out of combat sprint. And so on. Nothing that breaks the gameplay, but things that gives you an easier life sometimes.
Gameplay
This are the abilities that can break races as a whole for the gameplay. An extra Stunbreak and this race will dominate pvp. Faster casting time? this race if you want to play a caster. 10% more constitution, perfect for tanking.
I'm all for Flavor and convenience abilities for Races but no gameplay abilities. This should be done through your class abilities.
I don't completely disagree with what they said but I still feel it is a copout. YOu don't have to go into every game knowing 100% what every decision you make means. I go into most games as a melee based healer but it isn't the devs responsibility to spell out to me just how that class works, I might hate the mechanics about it and decide to reroll but they don't have to protect me from myself here. As long as every class choice is viable in some way they have covered themselves.
exactly. I love that there is no class/race restriction but each race MUST have racial passives (and maybe even racial actives) that make each class different between races. There is no way in hell a big lion warrior should perform the same as a tiny gnome girl warrior. Both races know how to be a warrior but the race should affect the class in some way.
I pretty much agree with all of these quotes.
I have never been fond of restricting a race from any given class, but racial flavor is a must. I'm exceptionally fond of racial abilities and potentially racial weaknesses that aren't game breaking...but provide a unique feel to the race you're playing. When it comes to statistical variations, that's a slippery slope...but as long as it doesn't trap people into any particular race to be effective with any particular class, I'm okay with that as well.
Either way, in any game, races need to feel different...or you're going to be left without any sense of immersion after the awe of the surrounding material wears off come around mid-game. You won't feel part of the race you're playing.
I've a heart of pure black jade, beating forth the ebon ink of shattered dreams. So spread those thighs my darlings, and let me hear those lustful screams... For twisting coils and silken strands, my venom coursing through your veins. It's my bliss you seek, to ease those troubled pains...