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[Column] Star Wars: The Old Republic: Not Quite Jump to Lightspeed, But I’ll Take It

13

Comments

  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon
    Space combat in SWTOR is playing a 90s spaceshooter on an arcade machine onboard of your ship. It feels that disconnected to the rest of the game. So I guess that with the addition of space PVP your ship's arcade machine has been upgraded with a network connection. So now you can invite your fellow jedi's and arch enemy sith to your LAN party :p
  • Effin_RabbitEffin_Rabbit Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 773Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ruien
    Originally posted by Jerek_
    the sad thing is that asking for these guys to match the quality of an expansion that released nine years ago for a game that eventually failed is asking for to much.

    You hit the nail on the head.

    I would not have guessed in my wildest nightmare that Bioware would ever be considered one of the worst developers in the gaming industry.

    Yea, its kind of a joke.

  • VincerKadenVincerKaden Edison, NJPosts: 457Member
    Originally posted by Scott23
    Originally posted by Masonic1

    swg was just one of the best mmo's that was ever released and all tor has been from the  very start is like wow but worse. this won't help tor one bit. i went into the game last night and fleet chat was just filled with people who are upset over bioware doing something that they don't want.

    Yet SWG was never very popular compared to the games at the time or to modern games.

    It was very popular compared to MMOs at the time. Modern games benefit from the explosion of the genre, increased hardware and software capabilities, larger development budgets (because of the aforementioned points), etc. SWG was too ambitious for its own good. Those who saw it for what it was trying to be love it to this day to the exclusion of all else. Those who couldn't get past the bugs and poor management will see it as the failure it eventually became.

     

    image

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Vayman
    Originally posted by Scott23
    Originally posted by Masonic1

    swg was just one of the best mmo's that was ever released and all tor has been from the  very start is like wow but worse. this won't help tor one bit. i went into the game last night and fleet chat was just filled with people who are upset over bioware doing something that they don't want.

    Yet SWG was never very popular compared to the games at the time or to modern games.

    It was very popular compared to MMOs at the time. Modern games benefit from the explosion of the genre, increased hardware and software capabilities, larger development budgets (because of the aforementioned points), etc. SWG was too ambitious for its own good. Those who saw it for what it was trying to be love it to this day to the exclusion of all else. Those who couldn't get past the bugs and poor management will see it as the failure it eventually became.

     

    The popularity of SWG, the amount of revenue it generated, etc. has nothing to do with anything. The comparisons with SWG inevitably are born of the dearth of features and depth in SWTOR. SWG could have been the pet project of Saddam Hussein used to torment captives and it was still much more fulfilling an experience than SWTOR.

    Don't blame SWG, Bioware made a game that extracted a yearning for something a lot more hefty in 75% + of those who tried the game at launch. With two space choices they still haven't reached the ability of JTL. That has nothing to do with the failure of a little-known game that died called SWG.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • ScorpionOneScorpionOne Mechanicville, NYPosts: 190Member Uncommon

         I consider myself a Star Wars fan.  I loved all Star Wars games.  I think my favorites were Tie Fighter, X-Wing Alliance, KoToR, X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter.  Those games were...just amazing.  And I can see the back and forth about Star Wars Galaxies here.  But for me, personally, I loved Star Wars Galaxies.  I loved Jump to Lightspeed.  Why?  Because to me, it felt so immersive.  It felt like someone really cared about the game and made it to be the Star Wars I always remembered.  Story.  Action.  Romance.  And I'm probably the only one that feels that way, and that's fine.  Many of you might call what I saw as "Rose Tinted Glasses".  But that is what it felt to me, agree or disagree is your peragotive.  But the games felt....like real effort was put into them despite their bugs.  Mind you that doesn't excuse them.

     

         I wanted to really like TOR.  I played, leveled through the story and liked the story quite a bit.  But after I got to end game, and seeing what I saw, a game that in the end had no heart to it.   It wasn't the quality I had come to know.  And yes, I know.  Bioware is dead and gone only being a name slapped on a label, in essence paying for the name only.  But I guess it's a question I pose in response to the article.  Why should we take it?  Why should we as customers take a half-a**ed product and be happy with that alone?  Why should we reward poor effort?  If I only did a half-a**ed job, I certainly wouldn't be rewarded for it, I would be fired as my client would not pay for poor effort. 

     

         In my eyes, Galactic Starfighter is very much very poor effort.  It's only one side of the game.  PvP,  which I don't do.  Now I know what many of you will say: "Vote with your wallet then and move on." And believe me, I've done that already.  I'm not spewing hate for the game.  But I am expressing my disappointment and direction that EA has taken with SWTOR.  And I don't speak for everyone, I never pretend to.  But in no way, shape or form should we ever accept a half done job and just expect to "Take it".  And it should never be rewarded.

     

         If a developer/publisher is not going to put effort into their products, then don't sell them or the service for them.  Basic economics.

     

     

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  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 637Member Uncommon
    I think people are treating this game like it is a p2p game. It is not p2p anymore. Accept that it is f2p and that all the systems going forward are intended to only maximize short term profit. This expansion is not a system designed for long term play.
    Once you accept those truths, you may see why it is the way it is. The age of full expansion like mines of moria or cataclysm, are dead with f2p.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • SamhaelSamhael Huntsville, ALPosts: 696Member Uncommon
    This is an acceptable "expansion" for a F2P game because I believe we are getting what we paid for. Once again, BioWare is missing the mark. PvP only? Only rarely have I found a MMO with PvP as bland/boring as SWTOR. I don't this changing any time soon. Sadly, I expect the "rails game" is probably about the best they have produced and that this isn't going to be as "good" as that was.
  • Bluefear77Bluefear77 Kansas City, KSPosts: 82Member

    The responses in this thread are ridiculous. People complaining about a game that they don't even play (or haven't played in two years). People attacking  a game with arguments that don't even make sense. People desperately looking to complain about something (yes, many of the complaints and attacks are desperate). 

    The game is adding content. They are calling it an expansion because it is adding an entirely new feature to the game. But it is not a true expansion in the historical sense. Which is fine with me because they are not charging for the expansion. There will be content updates to this new feature in the future. What those updates will include and the quality of those updates we don't know. Hopefully, the game will add space PVE with this new feature in the future (and I expect they will).

    All the haters for this game really need to move on. The game has been out for two years and hasn't failed like you so desperately wanted. The game's servers are busy and the game has seen regular quality updates (more quality updates than almost any other MMO in the last two years). So trying to claim the game is dead is wrong.  If the game wasn't for you, which is ok and I can understand, move on already. 

  • Masonic1Masonic1 mesa, AZPosts: 41Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by Vayman
    Originally posted by Scott23
    Originally posted by Masonic1

    swg was just one of the best mmo's that was ever released and all tor has been from the  very start is like wow but worse. this won't help tor one bit. i went into the game last night and fleet chat was just filled with people who are upset over bioware doing something that they don't want.

    Yet SWG was never very popular compared to the games at the time or to modern games.

    It was very popular compared to MMOs at the time. Modern games benefit from the explosion of the genre, increased hardware and software capabilities, larger development budgets (because of the aforementioned points), etc. SWG was too ambitious for its own good. Those who saw it for what it was trying to be love it to this day to the exclusion of all else. Those who couldn't get past the bugs and poor management will see it as the failure it eventually became.

     

    The popularity of SWG, the amount of revenue it generated, etc. has nothing to do with anything. The comparisons with SWG inevitably are born of the dearth of features and depth in SWTOR. SWG could have been the pet project of Saddam Hussein used to torment captives and it was still much more fulfilling an experience than SWTOR.

    Don't blame SWG, Bioware made a game that extracted a yearning for something a lot more hefty in 75% + of those who tried the game at launch. With two space choices they still haven't reached the ability of JTL. That has nothing to do with the failure of a little-known game that died called SWG.

    if bioware had followed what the players wanted they wouldn't be looking at getting tor shutdown soon. the players wanted another swg we begged them to ditch the class system and just give us an upgrade to the pre-cu system. that's what the players wanted but bioware wanted to suck up to their masters at ea and gave us the worst mmo in history.

    really i'm glad tor has gone this way. it shows that the mmo community wants more games like swg pre-cu.

  • lugallugal Escondido, CAPosts: 637Member Uncommon
    EA had nothing to do with the poor game design. Just look at the timeline of when bioware started the developement and when EA moved in. This is all bioware's choice. Their arrogance in assuming they know better and ignoring the testers, was all them.

    Roses are red
    Violets are blue
    The reviewer has a mishapen head
    Which means his opinion is skewed
    ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONPosts: 2,499Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lugal
    EA had nothing to do with the poor game design. Just look at the timeline of when bioware started the developement and when EA moved in. This is all bioware's choice. Their arrogance in assuming they know better and ignoring the testers, was all them.

     

    I think that you're making the assumption that by the time that testers were poking at the game that anything could be done to rectify whatever design errors were made. It was waaaaaay too late. I also don't think that it was arrogance at all. If anything I would say that it was a lack of arrogance that drove their design decisions. They decided that WoW is the most popular MMO and it's maintaining millions of subscribers where no others have. Soooooooo....... WoW must be doing something right. Right? 

     

    If they were being arrogant, I think that they would have tried to re-invent the entire industry. That didn't happen at all. It's obvious that they were creating a game to appeal to the masses. Mission accomplished, it's got a decent number of subscribers and it's been running for a while now. 

     

    IMO they actually did exactly what they intended to do. I'm really sorry, but I'm fairly certain they weren't looking to deliver SWG 2. Fact of the matter is that SWG failed, so they may have thought that there wasn't a market for it. I still think that the market segment that wants an SWG game is smaller than that which wants a SWTOR game. When you have a price tag like SWTOR, that smaller niche segment of the market simply isn't going to cut it. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
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  • DrakephireDrakephire Fontana, CAPosts: 445Member Uncommon

    Makes sense. PvP is cheap content to make, and especially in outer space.  I'm guessing a quarter of the staff needed to make PvE.  

    Glad I know this before hand. Won't be playing it.

     
  • DrakephireDrakephire Fontana, CAPosts: 445Member Uncommon
    and let me add for the record that I predicted SWTOR evolution into a fancy MOBA a while back.  Essentially all that is released these days for content are arenas.  What a sad state of affairs.
  • iJustWantiJustWant Somewhere, WAPosts: 81Member
    Originally posted by Bluefear77

      If the game wasn't for you, which is ok and I can understand, move on already. 

     

    Totally agree. But sadly, this is an increasingly popular trend.

     

    Players don't stop playing games anymore when they're done playing. It's all about complaining to the entire world, listing all the reasons why the game failed, why the game would have been the best game ever (if only the Devs had listened to the Complaints), and to continue the complaining like it's some twisted form of a game in itself.

    image
  • DocBrodyDocBrody EldridgePosts: 1,820Member

    Hooray it's another Moonbreaker/Star Conflict, whoop-deedoo

    No big universe to explore

    No cockpits

    No PvE campaigns like in X-Wing

    meh, I'll pass and wait for X Rebirth, Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous

     

    quote from the article

    " The SSSP turned out to be far more narrow in scope than I’d have liked to see"

    -> should be the tagline for the whole game

    "SWTOR - far more narrow in scope than expected"

  • hikaru77hikaru77 buenos airesPosts: 1,035Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bluefear77

    The responses in this thread are ridiculous. People complaining about a game that they don't even play (or haven't played in two years). People attacking  a game with arguments that don't even make sense. People desperately looking to complain about something (yes, many of the complaints and attacks are desperate). 

    The game is adding content. They are calling it an expansion because it is adding an entirely new feature to the game. But it is not a true expansion in the historical sense. Which is fine with me because they are not charging for the expansion. There will be content updates to this new feature in the future. What those updates will include and the quality of those updates we don't know. Hopefully, the game will add space PVE with this new feature in the future (and I expect they will).

    All the haters for this game really need to move on. The game has been out for two years and hasn't failed like you so desperately wanted. The game's servers are busy and the game has seen regular quality updates (more quality updates than almost any other MMO in the last two years). So trying to claim the game is dead is wrong.  If the game wasn't for you, which is ok and I can understand, move on already. 

    hater need something to hate, is easy like that, and sad from a point of view.  the SSSP is coming and pretty much all the real players of swtor cant wait to play it, even when if just PvP once the system is in game it will have PvE updates and more. Almost 2 years of swtor and the is good and growing with everysingle new update, Thats a Fact.  

  • JasonJJasonJ New Port Richey, FLPosts: 395Member
    Originally posted by iJustWant
    Originally posted by Bluefear77

      If the game wasn't for you, which is ok and I can understand, move on already. 

    Totally agree. But sadly, this is an increasingly popular trend.

    Players don't stop playing games anymore when they're done playing. It's all about complaining to the entire world, listing all the reasons why the game failed, why the game would have been the best game ever (if only the Devs had listened to the Complaints), and to continue the complaining like it's some twisted form of a game in itself.

     The sad part is you youngsters that weren't a part of the days when good MMOs were coming out left and right...during the time when beta testers actually worked closely with the game makers and help shape the design of the game. You know, what Richard Garriott is doing RIGHT NOW with Shroud of the Avatar...bringing back the GOOD MMOs with things PLAYERS actually think is good and not just non-game playing designers working for a corporation focused only on money.

    Remember reading about corpse runs in EQ1? Camping? Actual GOOD crafting? Heavy focus on grouping? All came from beta 1 testers. EQ was not focused heavily on grouping and had bad crafting during early beta 1, I remember the damn conversations with the developers and the questions they were asking us.

    Ever read about portal system in Asherons Call? If not, the very reason why MMOs have a recall/bind ability now is due to that game which got its idea from BETA TESTERS who came up with the idea, a spell/ability that allows you to bind to a point and return to it. Just one of MANY ideas implemented from companies that listened to players. Hell, its because of that game that games like SWG had such a varied UI and why WoW and other games allowed custom addons, it was the first game to have a massive modding community that made the game so much better to the point Turbine started working directly with them.

    But, no doubt you at some point complain about how the genre is stagnant and there are too many clones...well, there are your designers going with what THEY THINK YOU LIKE...

  • jpnzjpnz SydneyPosts: 3,529Member
    Did you just agree with a poster that was comparing a VIDEO GAME with real life TOTURE?
    Really?!!!
    I know people have this irrational hatred for SWTOR but... jeez...

    /facepalm

    Gdemami -
    Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  • Masonic1Masonic1 mesa, AZPosts: 41Member
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by Bluefear77

    The responses in this thread are ridiculous. People complaining about a game that they don't even play (or haven't played in two years). People attacking  a game with arguments that don't even make sense. People desperately looking to complain about something (yes, many of the complaints and attacks are desperate). 

    The game is adding content. They are calling it an expansion because it is adding an entirely new feature to the game. But it is not a true expansion in the historical sense. Which is fine with me because they are not charging for the expansion. There will be content updates to this new feature in the future. What those updates will include and the quality of those updates we don't know. Hopefully, the game will add space PVE with this new feature in the future (and I expect they will).

    All the haters for this game really need to move on. The game has been out for two years and hasn't failed like you so desperately wanted. The game's servers are busy and the game has seen regular quality updates (more quality updates than almost any other MMO in the last two years). So trying to claim the game is dead is wrong.  If the game wasn't for you, which is ok and I can understand, move on already. 

    hater need something to hate, is easy like that, and sad from a point of view.  the SSSP is coming and pretty much all the real players of swtor cant wait to play it, even when if just PvP once the system is in game it will have PvE updates and more. Almost 2 years of swtor and the is good and growing with everysingle new update, Thats a Fact.  

    really?

    so far I've logged into Jung Ma and Ebon Hawk both Pub and Imp and know what the fleet chat is saying? to sum it up no one likes it and it's not anything people wanted.

    the fact is tor has been the biggest failure in gaming history rather then do what the mmo community has been wanting from the very start all we have gotten is lied too, bad systems, bad gameplay. and a bunch of you kids who don't know how great mmo's used to be.

    do you know in swg pre-cu we had weekend long battles both on ground and in space? do you know in ultima online the world was once filled with danger and made your heartbeat fast anytime you went out of town? do you know what it was like working on getting your crafting up and seeing someone tell you they come to you for their armor weapons and whatever cuz you are the best? or how awesome it was to 'unlock' something like jedi?

    what do we have now? oh we have raids and dungeon content. swg and uo had dungeons and they where open with no bosses or any of that you went down in them and just had fun with your friends not grind out loot. we had open world pvp that had people building their own templates and fighting for control over towns and areas. where's that in tor?

    tor is everything thats wrong with mmo's it's a pay to win game that doesn't offer any freedom. and news flash games like tor are going away. players are waking up and hearing stories about how great swg and uo had been and that's what the community wants.

  • DocBrodyDocBrody EldridgePosts: 1,820Member
    Originally posted by hikaru77
    Originally posted by Bluefear77

    The responses in this thread are ridiculous. People complaining about a game that they don't even play (or haven't played in two years). People attacking  a game with arguments that don't even make sense. People desperately looking to complain about something (yes, many of the complaints and attacks are desperate). 

    The game is adding content. They are calling it an expansion because it is adding an entirely new feature to the game. But it is not a true expansion in the historical sense. Which is fine with me because they are not charging for the expansion. There will be content updates to this new feature in the future. What those updates will include and the quality of those updates we don't know. Hopefully, the game will add space PVE with this new feature in the future (and I expect they will).

    All the haters for this game really need to move on. The game has been out for two years and hasn't failed like you so desperately wanted. The game's servers are busy and the game has seen regular quality updates (more quality updates than almost any other MMO in the last two years). So trying to claim the game is dead is wrong.  If the game wasn't for you, which is ok and I can understand, move on already. 

    hater need something to hate, is easy like that, and sad from a point of view.  the SSSP is coming and pretty much all the real players of swtor cant wait to play it

    they could play Star Conflict or Moonbreakers since 2012, cause that's exactly the type of MOBA which BW ripped off. 

     

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon

    Much like everything in this game it just doesn't live up to the potential does it? I came in thinking, ok, maybe this will be done right. Maybe it will be even a little like JTLS...no. Once again I'm disappointed.

  • TimothyTierlessTimothyTierless Columnist M, ORPosts: 2,163Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jerek_
    the sad thing is that asking for these guys to match the quality of an expansion that released nine years ago for a game that eventually failed is asking for to much.

    This

  • curacura WarsawPosts: 950Member Uncommon

    JTL was anemic crap designed with 90 years old players in mind. Everything was slow beyound believe. Not to mention arcade controlls which made it even more lame. The only good thing about it was multiplayer ships and interstellar travel but the latter had no real purpose.

    Its not hard to be better then that but its BW so i doubt they will deliver.

     

     

  • orionblackorionblack Wichita Falls, TXPosts: 474Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ScorpionOne

         I consider myself a Star Wars fan.  I loved all Star Wars games.  I think my favorites were Tie Fighter, X-Wing Alliance, KoToR, X-Wing vs. Tie Fighter.  Those games were...just amazing.  And I can see the back and forth about Star Wars Galaxies here.  But for me, personally, I loved Star Wars Galaxies.  I loved Jump to Lightspeed.  Why?  Because to me, it felt so immersive.  It felt like someone really cared about the game and made it to be the Star Wars I always remembered.  Story.  Action.  Romance.  And I'm probably the only one that feels that way, and that's fine.  Many of you might call what I saw as "Rose Tinted Glasses".  But that is what it felt to me, agree or disagree is your peragotive.  But the games felt....like real effort was put into them despite their bugs.  Mind you that doesn't excuse them.

     

         I wanted to really like TOR.  I played, leveled through the story and liked the story quite a bit.  But after I got to end game, and seeing what I saw, a game that in the end had no heart to it.   It wasn't the quality I had come to know.  And yes, I know.  Bioware is dead and gone only being a name slapped on a label, in essence paying for the name only.  But I guess it's a question I pose in response to the article.  Why should we take it?  Why should we as customers take a half-a**ed product and be happy with that alone?  Why should we reward poor effort?  If I only did a half-a**ed job, I certainly wouldn't be rewarded for it, I would be fired as my client would not pay for poor effort. 

     

         In my eyes, Galactic Starfighter is very much very poor effort.  It's only one side of the game.  PvP,  which I don't do.  Now I know what many of you will say: "Vote with your wallet then and move on." And believe me, I've done that already.  I'm not spewing hate for the game.  But I am expressing my disappointment and direction that EA has taken with SWTOR.  And I don't speak for everyone, I never pretend to.  But in no way, shape or form should we ever accept a half done job and just expect to "Take it".  And it should never be rewarded.

     

         If a developer/publisher is not going to put effort into their products, then don't sell them or the service for them.  Basic economics.

     

     

    Have to agree with this guy..I myself am a HUGE Star Wars fan....How many peeps you know willing to shell out 60$ for 2 SW figures (Revan and Malek in case your wondering) , what I don't understand so far from the white knights is , According to this site and many others..PVP content is NOT wanted by the vast majority ?? So I myself can only see this as succeeding for a bit. 

    Only way I would come back to the game is if the actually worked on what the have already i:e, crafting (let's face it when all you are crafting that is any worth are mods and certain stims...it has to be reworked) , actual new content..not dailies or freaking raids which are quickly becoming a gear check...yeah go ahead and prove me wrong on it. What's that ? They added a new planet? Let me guess...gots dailies on it doesn't it?And an op or two.... Did it advance your class story? Did it advance your story in any way?

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jerek_
    the sad thing is that asking for these guys to match the quality of an expansion that released nine years ago for a game that eventually failed is asking for to much.

    Indeed. How sad. :(

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

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