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They assume the community will vote a certain way and if the results completely catch them by surprise they can discuss whether they want to modifier their opinions at all. The poll isn't going to really change the game but it does give them some feedback as to whether or not they are understanding the community.
My vote goes to small penalty (corpse-runs). And I have a very good reason.
Harsh death penalties tend to reduce risk taking and experimentation. My favorite thing to do in MMO's is see if odd character builds can work (not always efficient, but usually very fun) and how hard I can push my character. "Last time I was able to take on 3 mobs, but now I tweaked this maybe I can take 5! . . . nope, died. Better rethink my skills/gear/ability usage."
People do play very differently when presented with harsh death penalties and I feel (and have personally witnessed) that people prefer to take the safer easier route. There's always going to be a select few that will still play risky, but they are really really few and far between.
Look at PoE, the builds used, the style of play, look different between normal and perma-death modes. It's much more common to see people re-grind areas that they know they can do so that they can get stronger without taking on additional risk. That's boring to me.
Now, if you could create a game in which content scales based on your level and how many people are in your party so that there is never any content without risk, then I'd sign up for perma-death. Because it becomes about skill instead of fraidy-cat grinding easy content.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
I vote for Perma-death with only 1 char per account.
That way you have to buy a new copy of the game every time you die to wolves.....
No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin
The big thing for me is NO TIME SINK.
I don't care if I lose experience, levels, gear, whatever... as long as I can get back up and continue playing without feeling like I'm wasting my time. Corpse runs, even the "ghost" versions, are just time sinks where I'm unable to play the game until I finish them.
My earliest memory of dying in the original, no-expansion Everquest was in the Ocean of Tears. I'd fallen overboard, while the boat was sailing from Faydwer to Freeport. I got lost underwater, my swimming skill was really low, and I'd drowned. I spent hours in water elemental form, swimming around looking for my corpse. When I finally found it, I felt relief; the XP loss was nothing, it was the heavy emotion of worry...what if I couldn't find my corpse?! I didn't want to lose all my stuff!
While this taught me to pay more attention while playing in that zone - not to mention the importance of the Swimming skill - the greatest part of the gaming experience was finding out who my in-game friends really were. The Cleric who met me on the docks, and handed me some food & water so I wouldn't go hungry: Friend. The Necro who came, swam with & then showed me the direction of my underwater corpse: Friend. Other guidies who were too busy, hmm...not much of a friend.
In comparison, when I played Rift, I remember thinking "That's it?" when I died. No penalty, other than the few seconds it takes to run back to my corpse. If that was too much effort, I can respawn instantly, and accept a...what, a 2 minute debuff to stats? That, and a few copper to repair my soul?
This taught me to just LOLWTFBBQLeeroyJenkins my way around Rift. Dying didn't matter.
The real comparison, I think, is the time and money I spent in each game. Rift had its moments, but ultimately not enough - I'd subscribed only 3 months. Everquest had me for 4-5 years.
Originally posted by tom_gore Originally posted by SpottyGekko Interesting that the dev team are even asking questions like this, but I can't imagine in my wildest dreams that they will actually implement any kind of DP in a game designed to have "mass appeal". Perhaps they'll opt for some token DP like a 10 second delay on respawning, or something equally trivial. The only massively accepted DP will be no DP...
You haven't played EverQuest, have you?
Also, even WoW has a death penalty, thus it's not massively accepted?
Seeing that all the dev quotes below the poll lean towards a definite DP (but not too harsh), and that a great majority of the poll respondees lean towards some kind of DP, I'd say there will for sure be a DP.
I never thought of the ghost-runs in WoW as a death penalty. Basically it just means to go back to a respawn point. If the character would immediately respawn in the point where he died, that would be no different then being knocked down.
Ok, you technically lose one minute to have another try on the same content, but calling this a death penalty is creative use of semantics if you ask me. It is only a penalty if it hurts.
SOE has made it very clear that they what to throw all the punishing aspects of EQ overboard. Everything in EQN has to be fun, and death penalty is clearly not fun.
It is hard to say what the dev-quotes actually mean. The clearest is: “Death should cost time and in some cases reset progress in an event or quest.” Note that this doesn’t mean XP-loss or anything like that. I think it says a lot that they feel the need to spell out that in some cases a quest might fail if you die. I thought that was kind of self-explanatory.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
Originally posted by Anthur Originally posted by Elikal I am not sure Democracy is a good way to ensure quality.
Don't worry. SOE doesn't care much for the poll results anyway. But that doesn't guarantee quality either.
I am quite sure SOE will choose one of the two options at the bottom.
The main problem is that hardcore players are the most vocal forum goers. So it is NO way representative to ask in a MMO forum or on a MMO website.
We here are exotic orchids and in no way representative of average MMO-Joe or MMO-Jill.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by Magiknight If it's equipment damage it better be HEAVY equipment damage. The equipment damage done in WoW and FFXIV is not a heavy death penalty at all.
I totally don't buy this "heavy penalities make better people" bullcrap. In RL just as nil as in games.
I voted light penalty. Lineage had an insane death penatly. You could lose several weeks worth of xp from a death and also have unique items destroyed. It didn't make better players. It didn't encourage risk taking. It encouraged ezmode zerg facerolling and of course contributed to extending the subscription time. No thanks. There is a reason Korean grinders had a bad reputation and this game is what spawned the term.
Penalties should be minor setbacks that encourage players or groups to rethink their tactics and strategies. They should be strong enough to encourage new strategies so you don't waste time spinning your wheels.
It's a good thing SoE doesn't take these polls too seriously because players seem to vote with what sounds cool not what they actually want.
Originally posted by Torvaldr I voted light penalty. Lineage had an insane death penatly. You could lose several weeks worth of xp from a death and also have unique items destroyed. It didn't make better players. It didn't encourage risk taking. It encouraged ezmode zerg facerolling and of course contributed to extending the subscription time. No thanks. There is a reason Korean grinders had a bad reputation and this game is what spawned the term. Penalties should be minor setbacks that encourage players or groups to rethink their tactics and strategies. They should be strong enough to encourage new strategies so you don't waste time spinning your wheels. It's a good thing SoE doesn't take these polls too seriously because players seem to vote with what sounds cool not what they actually want.
That too. It is my experience that most people have no idea what is good for them.
Even if someone truly would enjoy harsh penalities, do people REALLY thing it is good advise to SoE to implement a harsh death penality? In an expensive Triple A MMO?? In 2013?
THINK people. Try to make a difference between what is your personal quirk and what realistically is good for a MMO in our days! Any halfway harsh penality would make the game sink faster than the Titanic! I don't know why they even ASK the question. Sheesh. Haven't they learned anything from "race restrictions"? It just puts DUMB ideas into people's minds.
It's like asking a child, do you want chocolate or vegetables? Oh, sorry, we decided to have only veggies because they are healthier for you! Oh, then DON'T MENTION the damn chocolate!
SoE would be much better off, changing the Round Table to a sort of forum. So they can ask a question like this, but don't give multiple pre-formulate choices, but everyone could answer is a freeform text reply, becaus it would be WAY more interesting to hear WHY someone is for something, than what he is for. Anyone can say yay or nay, but the explanations are what would matter.
Originally posted by Elikal Originally posted by Torvaldr I voted light penalty. Lineage had an insane death penatly. You could lose several weeks worth of xp from a death and also have unique items destroyed. It didn't make better players. It didn't encourage risk taking. It encouraged ezmode zerg facerolling and of course contributed to extending the subscription time. No thanks. There is a reason Korean grinders had a bad reputation and this game is what spawned the term. Penalties should be minor setbacks that encourage players or groups to rethink their tactics and strategies. They should be strong enough to encourage new strategies so you don't waste time spinning your wheels. It's a good thing SoE doesn't take these polls too seriously because players seem to vote with what sounds cool not what they actually want.
Most of the people that vote for severe death penalties are those that have never played a game that had them. The first time they lose a full nights progression due to server lag, internet latency or the simple stupidity of another player they would rage quit and whine to anyone that would listen about how crap the game was. Severe death penalties were done away with because they were bad for the game and resulted in lower subscriber numbers.
Can we keep the debate about the DP instead of personal attacks?
FYI, dota2 has a harsher death penalty than the majority of mmorpgs. No one says a word, they just play the game.
Remember, it's just a game. There isn't a hurry. Slow down and play. Yes, play!!
Enjoy the experiences, and you won't need a new game in a month.
The death penalty is irrelevant when you're flowin".
"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"
I didn't vote on the poll for this one.
This is one of those things like fast travel where it depends entirely on the game design.
I prefer penalties on the harsher side for PvE and on the lighter side for PvP. I also like having options such as in DAoC. Perhaps a corpse run where you retrieve your equipment and get back experience, or a summoning where you lose the experience and take more damage to your equipment at a cost of some coin while saving time. While I liked the original EQ death penalty, I didn't like that only one class could summon your corpse and only one class could help you recover experience, or the fact that there were no other options in a worse case scenario (like a bad break in PoF in the old days).
And while I think death should sting in PvE where you should try not to die, in PvP someone is going to die and lower penalties encourage more PvP. DAoC did pretty well on this as well.
I like death penalty to be harsh,I agree with the poster that said low for pvp deaths though,that is a good idea.sadly i think there will be little - no death penalty in eqn. Even if 75% of the vote wants it.
Gnome Wankers two.After the events of 18/07/2015 i fucking hate anyone that has anything to do with skyforge
One thing to remember is that EQ 1's penalty (in classic, mind you) was actually pretty weak at high levels once you had access to the best ress.
It was really in the mid leveling phase that it actually hurt you. Often no exp ress or the lev 39 exp ress that gave you about half the exp back.
At max level, you had your full exp bar and recovering corpses was easy 99% of the time.
Once I hit 50 in EQ classic, I never once deleveled. The raid content was quite easy outside of plane of sky. When kunark came out and I hit 60, I deleveled once early on...got it back, then n ever deleveled again.
It was really only a problem if you chain died over and over, where the minor (after ress) exp loss did catch up to you. Most of the time you did NOT lose hours of progress dying once, unless you were out soloing or something and just ate it with no cleric exp recovery.
Originally posted by apocoluster Originally posted by MMOredfalcon Originally posted by FinalFikus Ya I'd love to see a battle fatigue type DP again. An entertainer in swg was a completely unique experience that no one has even attempted to duplicate except maybe LOTRO. But there was no gameplay elements to it. Ill gladly take that DP if healing battle fatigue required a bard. That was a fantastic Death penalty and system to remove it.
I agree with this. It was a good system. It made death in the game effective. But it also made people more sociable. SWG was great when you'd run into the cantina and there was always a large group of people there chatting and the entertainers who were generally quite friendly. So while death was a pain in the arse, it also meant people had to actually interact! A bit of downtime and social interaction. Imagine that, people having to interact in an MMO...maybe that would be taking it too far....
Really friendly Ents? No sayin your lying. No real point in doing so. Just all the Ents I ever saw were non talking bots. Still I wold like to see a similar class Ingame
When did you play? NGE only? Then you wouldn't know. SWG Entertainers were still healing Mind wounds and battle fatigue up to the early days of the CU. The mechanic had to be removed at this point because level-based damage multipliers broke it (and a lot of other things as well). It's a good system for a sandbox but it isn't very compatible with games where level-based damage matters more than actual weapons. And I got fed up a long time ago with the "No time sinks! No down times! No interaction! I want it all now Now NOW!!!" whiners.
For the record, I voted for the medium penalty. The corpse runs in EQ Mac is a good challenge, but not really tons of fun.
Hefty personal penalty. Its silly how trivial dieing is. Having more penalty makes the act of dieing that less liked and as such, makes stupid behavior less 'desired', helping people to actually improve.
Permadeath is fun, but honestly I would see it maybe on a specialized server for it.