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Videos showing current client/server sync issues (skill delay)

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Comments

  • karmathkarmath Posts: 827Member Uncommon

    Considering they chose to locate their servers in Eastern Canada only compounds this issue. West Coast US players have 100-180ms ping while its completely unplayable for Australia and New Zealand coming in at around 300-400ms. Add in the longest GCD of any modern game at two seconds and a client sync issue you have a massive unresponsive lagfest.

    Why they did this is pretty baffling, I cannot think of a single reason why someone thought it was a good idea to locate servers so far away from their target market when their game has performance issues in the first place. It's like investing in a bacon stand in the middle of baghdad stupid.

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by karmath

    Considering they chose to locate their servers in Eastern Canada only compounds this issue. West Coast US players have 100-180ms ping while its completely unplayable for Australia and New Zealand coming in at around 300-400ms. Add in the longest GCD of any modern game at two seconds and a client sync issue you have a massive unresponsive lagfest.

    Why they did this is pretty baffling, I cannot think of a single reason why someone thought it was a good idea to locate servers so far away from their target market when their game has performance issues in the first place. It's like investing in a bacon stand in the middle of baghdad stupid.

    This, I will agree with.

    Why there is no European data center for European players...is baffling.  Although I probably put one in Australia or New Zealand, demand is just too small.

  • PpiperPpiper Horsham, PAPosts: 648Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jskeets916
    Originally posted by Ppiper
    albeit, many have completed Titan, I for one found it annoying as a healer and really lost interest in a game like this. Seems so stupid to build this in a game to compensate for it's infrastructure issues. Needless to say, I've moved on, actually back to EQ2. Never encountered anything this poor in a game in recent memory.

    Beaten Titan consecutively with multiple groups, these are not issues, I don't understand mmorpg.com forum logic it's absolutely astounding.

     

     

    It's quoted as a design... Meaning the game developers created content with integrated testing for completion, allowing for the consistent .3 seconds to create a balanced and measureable endgame/pvp frontier.

     

    Yet when you guys fail due to lack of skill, unrelated connectivity issues (yes there are many), or graphics stuttering from too high of settings on subpar pc's, you point to this hand delivered fact as the reason for your falter with PREDICTABLE circles and lines?

     

    If anything this furthers the notion that I've experienced first hand that most players in this game are probably just really bad given that unlike other mmo's you've played, the design accounts for a consistent .3 second delay, fair across the board, as opposed to some unspecified fluctuating number.

    was wondering when someone like you would show up. I suck, we all suck, I get it,. A game constructed like this sucks. Enjoy it. I want nothin to do with it. I'm sorry, I've never encountered a game that had in its core, a timing mechanism to work with its faulty infrastructure that players should anticipate in advance and overcompensate for their failure? Are you fucking kidding with me?

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,496Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by grapevine
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by Vyce
    Easy Solution - remove the red circle/cone/rectangle from the game. I have always found those early warning signs too carebear and annoying as hell.

    Maybe you are missing the point, removing red circles would only be masking the problem, the 300ms delay is still present for every single skill in game!

    They need to solve this in server netcode, other AAA games do not have this issue, so its clearly possible.

    Should I even mention that as P2P game, this is simply a big no-no IMO.

     

    Not true at all.  Other MMOs do have it.  They just don't typically give you a warning, so it's not apparent.

     

    For example WoW has issues if you activate a movement skill.  Hunter's disengage will often be countered from where the player was standing, and not were they land.  Rouge sprint will be recoded as the starting point.  Hit boxes appear to be the wrong shape, so you die when you move just outside them.   Same issue.  It's not game breaking, you just need to be aware of it and react applicably.

    Yes other games do have client/server sync issues but nowhere near the magnitude of FF14ARR.

    I can - heck any player can log in right now and try the following:

    Cast a healing spell - when the cast animation is ~70% start running forward - you will still get healed - why didn't you get interrupted before the cast was finished at 100%?

    If I try the same in Rift, EQ1 - my heals get interrupted *every* time, the sync between client and server is *much* tighter.

    So its not the same issue - the magnitude of delay in FF14ARR is huge IMO 

    Precisely!  It works both ways, so abuse it.

    The solution is staring you in the face, but you don't seem to want to acknowledge it.  Use slide casting.  Improve your life.

    Improve your gaming.

    Who does moving adlo jumping lustrates in Titan HM?  This guy!

    My FC has beaten Titan HM 2 weeks ago, we have end game on farm - this is not an issue for me, I've adapted to FF14s delay since day 1.

    My point is this - a P2P game with such a broken sync mechanic is not acceptable for most gamers, it might be fine to you and I and others who have adapted to it - but it is NOT OK.

    Other major MMOs do not suffer from this issue, MMORPG gamers expect some latency but not to the extent of what FF14ARR has, I don't think its OK to settle for the status quo.

    It needs to be fixed.

     

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,112Member Uncommon

    The problem is the AOE lagg that is caused by shitty netcode that only checks your postion every 300ms.  We have been talking about this on the official forums.

    In effect  some people do not understand what is happening and will argue they don't have this issue when they are in fact compensating for it without knowing they are by strafing or moving before the attacks starts.

    What happens is you have your net lag + your pc lagg if your pc isnt up to par plus a hidden positioning check lagg.

    This is what happens  when they decide you need to perform action moves to evade attacks yet have their servers check your position every 300ms. Any kind of lagg due to server problems acerbates this issue.

     

    Official SE forums thread about it

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  • PpiperPpiper Horsham, PAPosts: 648Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asm0deus

    The problem is the AOE lagg that is caused by shitty netcode that only checks your postion every 300ms.  We have been talking about this on the official forums.

    In effect  some people do not understand what is happening and will argue they don't have this issue when they are in fact compensating for it without knowing they are by strafing or moving before the attacks starts.

    What happens is you have your net lag + your pc lagg if your pc isnt up to par plus a hidden positioning check lagg.

    This is what happens  when they decide you need to perform action moves to evade attacks yet have their servers check your position every 300ms. Any kind of lagg due to server problems acerbates this issue.

     

    Official SE forums thread about it

    thank you

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,496Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grapevine

    Again, not true, and it's not a HUGE delay.  Learn the fights and react as need.   Sounds like you simply aren't adapting your play and being too reliant on markings anyway.

    It is true and having a .3sec delay added to your exiting latency is HUGE.

    I am at BCoB turn 5 - my FC has end game on farm, Titan HM is a breeze to me - this is not the issue.

    The issue I am bringing up is very simple - why should the entire playerbase have to live with this 300ms delay between client and server????

    Other games don't have this huge latency - it is TRUE, no matter how you try to spin it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3leMnErroL0 - are you saying this is fabricated (test it yourself)

  • karmathkarmath Posts: 827Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by grapevine

    Again, not true, and it's not a HUGE delay.  Learn the fights and react as need.   Sounds like you simply aren't adapting your play and being too reliant on markings anyway.

    It is true and having a .3sec delay added to your exiting latency is HUGE.

    I am at BCoB turn 5 - my FC has end game on farm, Titan HM is a breeze to me - this is not the issue.

    The issue I am bringing up is very simple - why should the entire playerbase have to live with this 300ms delay between client and server????

    Other games don't have this huge latency - it is TRUE, no matter how you try to spin it.

     

    It really is. I cant understand why some people fanboi it up to a point where they try to refute it.

    300 ms is borderline unplayable by default.

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by karmath
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by grapevine

    Again, not true, and it's not a HUGE delay.  Learn the fights and react as need.   Sounds like you simply aren't adapting your play and being too reliant on markings anyway.

    It is true and having a .3sec delay added to your exiting latency is HUGE.

    I am at BCoB turn 5 - my FC has end game on farm, Titan HM is a breeze to me - this is not the issue.

    The issue I am bringing up is very simple - why should the entire playerbase have to live with this 300ms delay between client and server????

    Other games don't have this huge latency - it is TRUE, no matter how you try to spin it.

     

    It really is. I cant understand why some people fanboi it up to a point where they try to refute it.

    300 ms is borderline unplayable by default.

    For being unplayable, there sure are a lot of people on BCoB turn 5.

    Look, yes - it is a problem.  It's not optimal. 

    It *clearly* doesn't break the game.  There are methods to adjust, most of which don't even take much skill or knowledge.  If and when it does actually inhibit progression for a large segment of the community, then I think we should have a conversation.

  • Dreamo84Dreamo84 Niagara Falls, NYPosts: 3,436Member Uncommon
    Makes sense since I've noticed player movement is really choppy especially mounted. Rather unacceptable for a modern MMO seeing people skipping all over cause the server has such a bad delay.

    image
  • PpiperPpiper Horsham, PAPosts: 648Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by karmath
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by grapevine

    Again, not true, and it's not a HUGE delay.  Learn the fights and react as need.   Sounds like you simply aren't adapting your play and being too reliant on markings anyway.

    It is true and having a .3sec delay added to your exiting latency is HUGE.

    I am at BCoB turn 5 - my FC has end game on farm, Titan HM is a breeze to me - this is not the issue.

    The issue I am bringing up is very simple - why should the entire playerbase have to live with this 300ms delay between client and server????

    Other games don't have this huge latency - it is TRUE, no matter how you try to spin it.

     

    It really is. I cant understand why some people fanboi it up to a point where they try to refute it.

    300 ms is borderline unplayable by default.

    For being unplayable, there sure are a lot of people on BCoB turn 5.

    Look, yes - it is a problem.  It's not optimal. 

    It *clearly* doesn't break the game.  There are methods to adjust, most of which don't even take much skill or knowledge.  If and when it does actually inhibit progression for a large segment of the community, then I think we should have a conversation.

    you speak as if you have actual statistics, which you have none. You are assuming this from these putrid forums from which you collect your date. The game is broken and only those with well fortified guilds like our "beloved" Mr. Relic, enjoy. Let's see that relic again, Deuche!

     

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,112Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by karmath
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by grapevine

    Again, not true, and it's not a HUGE delay.  Learn the fights and react as need.   Sounds like you simply aren't adapting your play and being too reliant on markings anyway.

    It is true and having a .3sec delay added to your exiting latency is HUGE.

    I am at BCoB turn 5 - my FC has end game on farm, Titan HM is a breeze to me - this is not the issue.

    The issue I am bringing up is very simple - why should the entire playerbase have to live with this 300ms delay between client and server????

    Other games don't have this huge latency - it is TRUE, no matter how you try to spin it.

     

    It really is. I cant understand why some people fanboi it up to a point where they try to refute it.

    300 ms is borderline unplayable by default.

    For being unplayable, there sure are a lot of people on BCoB turn 5.

    Look, yes - it is a problem.  It's not optimal. 

    It *clearly* doesn't break the game.  There are methods to adjust, most of which don't even take much skill or knowledge.  If and when it does actually inhibit progression for a large segment of the community, then I think we should have a conversation.

    This Official SE forums thread about it  disagrees with you that it isn't an issue for most players. Also SE has this in their "accepted bugs" section.

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  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by karmath
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by grapevine

    Again, not true, and it's not a HUGE delay.  Learn the fights and react as need.   Sounds like you simply aren't adapting your play and being too reliant on markings anyway.

    It is true and having a .3sec delay added to your exiting latency is HUGE.

    I am at BCoB turn 5 - my FC has end game on farm, Titan HM is a breeze to me - this is not the issue.

    The issue I am bringing up is very simple - why should the entire playerbase have to live with this 300ms delay between client and server????

    Other games don't have this huge latency - it is TRUE, no matter how you try to spin it.

     

    It really is. I cant understand why some people fanboi it up to a point where they try to refute it.

    300 ms is borderline unplayable by default.

    For being unplayable, there sure are a lot of people on BCoB turn 5.

    Look, yes - it is a problem.  It's not optimal. 

    It *clearly* doesn't break the game.  There are methods to adjust, most of which don't even take much skill or knowledge.  If and when it does actually inhibit progression for a large segment of the community, then I think we should have a conversation.

    This Official SE forums thread about it  disagrees with you that it isn't an issue for most players. Also SE has this in their "accepted bugs" section.

    That forum is a joke.  The total level of derpitude there makes this place look like Harvard.

    What is that, 51 pages of the same dozen people posting about the same problem we already knew existed and know that SE has zero plans to do do anything about before 2.1 (if ever)?

    No, I'll pass.

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,112Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by karmath
    Originally posted by DMKano
    Originally posted by grapevine

    Again, not true, and it's not a HUGE delay.  Learn the fights and react as need.   Sounds like you simply aren't adapting your play and being too reliant on markings anyway.

    It is true and having a .3sec delay added to your exiting latency is HUGE.

    I am at BCoB turn 5 - my FC has end game on farm, Titan HM is a breeze to me - this is not the issue.

    The issue I am bringing up is very simple - why should the entire playerbase have to live with this 300ms delay between client and server????

    Other games don't have this huge latency - it is TRUE, no matter how you try to spin it.

     

    It really is. I cant understand why some people fanboi it up to a point where they try to refute it.

    300 ms is borderline unplayable by default.

    For being unplayable, there sure are a lot of people on BCoB turn 5.

    Look, yes - it is a problem.  It's not optimal. 

    It *clearly* doesn't break the game.  There are methods to adjust, most of which don't even take much skill or knowledge.  If and when it does actually inhibit progression for a large segment of the community, then I think we should have a conversation.

    This Official SE forums thread about it  disagrees with you that it isn't an issue for most players. Also SE has this in their "accepted bugs" section.

    That forum is a joke.  The total level of derpitude there makes this place look like Harvard.

    What is that, 51 pages of the same dozen people posting about the same problem we already knew existed and know that SE has zero plans to do do anything about before 2.1 (if ever)?

    No, I'll pass.

    Yes I will  agree the heavy armor wearers are very shiney.  Some people like to put their head in the sand and believe all is right and well in the world and some like to make noise about it so SE has more trouble sweeping it under the rug.

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  • koboldfodderkoboldfodder Danbury, DEPosts: 389Member

    The delay is a problem on big mobs with huge AOE circles.  Because you run kind of slow, it takes a while to get out of the area.  That split second may not mean much on a lesser mob, but on a boss or raid fight it can mean the difference between winning or dying.

     

    While you can use it to your advantage by running in a split second earlier, that's not that big of an advantage.  So you get there a split second earlier, bid deal.  It is a lot more important getting out of the circle than getting back in after the attack is over.

     

    It's a well know delay, everyone has it and you will see it in every fight from level 1 to level 50.

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member

    It's funny how you passively adapt to these issues, possibly without even realizing it.  I'm pretty sure I always start running before my mount cast time finishes, and I've been doing so for weeks.  On an encounter like Demon Wall, I stand on the outside in preparation for when the middle gets covered in ooze; but I've grown accustomed to running back into the middle well before the ooze actually disappears on my screen in order to get a head start on avoiding the incoming side ooze.  So my character appears to be retardedly standing in the middle of the black stuff, but I know I'm safe because the game doesn't register me there yet.  This works without fail, and I learned to do this completely subconsciously, surely after lots of repetition and experience.  

    I think it's safe to conclude that anyone who claims the combat latency is fine is either A) like me above and just got so subconsciously used to it that perhaps they didn't even notice it was happening (although I will say I definitely did notice it was happening, very consciously in the case of dozens of circumstances where I took damage while clearly not being anywhere near an aoe targetted area), or B) are just so slow and bad that they can't concretely feel the impact of a 300ms delay.  

  • PpiperPpiper Horsham, PAPosts: 648Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chakalaka
    [mod edit]

    there is no reason to accept this crap! Why should I have to adapt to a coding failure? Enlighten me. This game is fail 101, and already dead in the water. I've never played a game where the mechanics beat me,  not the content. Fool me once with FF XI, fool me twice with FFXIV, never again will I waste money on SE. I need a shower.

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by Homitu

     On an encounter like Demon Wall, I stand on the outside in preparation for when the middle gets covered in ooze; but I've grown accustomed to running back into the middle well before the ooze actually disappears on my screen in order to get a head start on avoiding the incoming side ooze.

    While the rest of your post is true, I sort of wonder why you use an example of a fight where you are starting in a safe area is evidence of lag.

    I mean....it's just good sense to start on the sides vs. Demon Wall regardless of lag.

    Overall, unless you really have a lot of lag - whatever delay there is on positioning is easily adjusted to.  We can argue all day as to whether or not we should have to adjust, but the fact is simple.  This 300ms position check is real and it's going no where.

    Get used to it.  I don't know what I can say to you if you really have that much trouble staying on top of your battle awareness.

  • PelagatoPelagato PRPosts: 643Member

    Its not a bug... Is broken on purpose.

    or

    SE simply doesnt have the skill to fix it.

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by Pelagato

    Its not a bug... Is broken on purpose.

    or

    SE simply doesnt have the skill to fix it.

    Honestly, I think its neither.  SE has chronically had server load issues since the beginning of launch.

    Yoshi has been quoted saying that there is no inventory sort function because of concern about server load.  Inventory sorting is a concern on server load.  If that's an potential issue, what the heck do you think increasing position checks would do?

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,923Member Uncommon

    Not a fan how its set up. You need to train yourself to get use to walking away quicker, and know you can run into aoes (that don't persist) even while the effect looks like its just going off.

     

    I've done titan HM without being hit once, its plausible (most didn't get hit once in my group) but it relies on getting use to its form of timing.

  • PpiperPpiper Horsham, PAPosts: 648Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by Homitu

     On an encounter like Demon Wall, I stand on the outside in preparation for when the middle gets covered in ooze; but I've grown accustomed to running back into the middle well before the ooze actually disappears on my screen in order to get a head start on avoiding the incoming side ooze.

    While the rest of your post is true, I sort of wonder why you use an example of a fight where you are starting in a safe area is evidence of lag.

    I mean....it's just good sense to start on the sides vs. Demon Wall regardless of lag.

    Overall, unless you really have a lot of lag - whatever delay there is on positioning is easily adjusted to.  We can argue all day as to whether or not we should have to adjust, but the fact is simple.  This 300ms position check is real and it's going no where.

    Get used to it.  I don't know what I can say to you if you really have that much trouble staying on top of your battle awareness.

    this is a game using idiotic coding or an ineptitude to correct it's problems and relying on its users to compensate for it? Are you fucking kidding with me? You're ok with idiocricy?

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    Not a fan how its set up. You need to train yourself to get use to walking away quicker, and know you can run into aoes (that don't persist) even while the effect looks like its just going off.

     

    I've done titan HM without being hit once, its plausible (most didn't get hit once in my group) but it relies on getting use to its form of timing.

    Does everyone really believe that the timing to dodge AoEs doesn't account for 300ms position lag?

    Everything is so easily dodged if you execute things properly, you have well over half a second more than what's needed.

  • PpiperPpiper Horsham, PAPosts: 648Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    Not a fan how its set up. You need to train yourself to get use to walking away quicker, and know you can run into aoes (that don't persist) even while the effect looks like its just going off.

     

    I've done titan HM without being hit once, its plausible (most didn't get hit once in my group) but it relies on getting use to its form of timing.

    Does everyone really believe that the timing to dodge AoEs doesn't account for 300ms position lag?

    Everything is so easily dodged if you execute things properly, you have well over half a second more than what's needed.

    you are the complete apologist, you'll say anything to defend this wretched train wreck of a game. It's wonderful that you can telepathically anticipate the 300 ms deviation in a game. I always assumed a game played fair, not using it's poorly developed code as an enticement for the twitch generation. How is this fun?

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,112Member Uncommon

    It is  a bug due to bad coding. Link

    Those of you saying it is not a bug and you all just suck and need to learn "battle awareness or you need to learn how run out of the red or you need to adapt to the timing" please note the forums it is under:

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