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Advancing my character

Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

The main reason i and many people play MMOs is the fact that we love to advance our characters...

while leveling we advance trough getting new skillsand abillities, getting better gear, advancing stories, getting acces to new areas or content, advancing crafting or other seccondary systems.

but when we get to max level, most of the advancement stops..

 

They need to create an MMO that allows people to keep advancing all of the above and you will have a guaranteed hit..

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

Comments

  • skeaserskeaser Wichita Falls, TXPosts: 3,849Member Uncommon
    I agree and would like to add that there should be visual progression. One of my biggest dislikes of AoC was constantly getting new armor with the same look. Progression should be visible.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,672Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    The main reason i and many people play MMOs is the fact that we love to advance our characters...

    while leveling we advance trough getting new skillsand abillities, getting better gear, advancing stories, getting acces to new areas or content, advancing crafting or other seccondary systems.

    but when we get to max level, most of the advancement stops..

     

    They need to create an MMO that allows people to keep advancing all of the above and you will have a guaranteed hit..

    Play Lineage 2.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    Lately I've been leaning more towards ideas that abandon the idea of a character level or gear grind entirely and instead focus on reputation-like local advancement curves that are tied to a specific zone, faction or quest.

     

  • jesadjesad Posts: 753Member Uncommon
    What they need to do is just create one gigantic Fabrica de' Medieval and make us work for options.  Cause at the end of the day that would be all a game with forever progression would turn into.  Heck, we have endgame and we are still not far from that now.

    image
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maplestone

    Lately I've been leaning more towards ideas that abandon the idea of a character level or gear grind entirely and instead focus on reputation-like local advancement curves that are tied to a specific zone, faction or quest.

     

    After playing GW2 i realised that such thing will not work for me.... While it can be fun, it will certainly not promote the longlasting commitment and immarion i am looking for...

     

     

    its contradictionary to what RPGs used to be.... Leaning more towards story base fps games, which is okay for some but not the kind of game that i like

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member

    Constantly advancing characters may sound fun but I'm not so sure. Aside form making numbers +1, what sort of advancements can there be? And what about players with high level characters griefing?

    I think the optimal way to have limitless character development requires two things, cooperative pve only and a focus on stuff besides constant monster mashing.

     

     

  • Mr.KujoMr.Kujo SwinoujsciePosts: 383Member

    I think it was always about the numbers, it is in human nature. I don't understand when people want to abandon leveling or other form of displaying progress, since I think they would realize fast there is nothing to keep them going. I also think that when people start complaining about end game it is simply not because of lacking content, but because their numbers stopped growing. Simple as that.

    I would like to see a game that has no cap at least once, just to see how that works out. It is not even about getting better, I'm pretty sure people just love it when numbers grow and they can show off with big numbers to everyone. It is similar to titles in real life, people work hard only to have new title next to their name, it is less about getting knowledge and more about those few new letters just to be respected.

    I would say give people endless leveling, and focus on releasing content for character development rather than new levels etc. because it would be more fun to do the same stuff with new abilities, than doing new stuff with same character that stopped progressing.

  • CuathonCuathon University City, NYPosts: 2,211Member
    Originally posted by Mr.Kujo

    I think it was always about the numbers, it is in human nature. I don't understand when people want to abandon leveling or other form of displaying progress, since I think they would realize fast there is nothing to keep them going. I also think that when people start complaining about end game it is simply not because of lacking content, but because their numbers stopped growing. Simple as that.

    I would like to see a game that has no cap at least once, just to see how that works out. It is not even about getting better, I'm pretty sure people just love it when numbers grow and they can show off with big numbers to everyone. It is similar to titles in real life, people work hard only to have new title next to their name, it is less about getting knowledge and more about those few new letters just to be respected.

    I would say give people endless leveling, and focus on releasing content for character development rather than new levels etc. because it would be more fun to do the same stuff with new abilities, than doing new stuff with same character that stopped progressing.

    Tibia has had endless leveling for over a decade.

  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    I hate leveling. I like shallow vertical progression and vasst horizontal progression that fleshes out characters. I am tired of games that are just level you character as the point. Level your character to have the true experience. Tired of mob and quest grinding just to progress.
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    The main reason i and many people play MMOs is the fact that we love to advance our characters...

    while leveling we advance trough getting new skillsand abillities, getting better gear, advancing stories, getting acces to new areas or content, advancing crafting or other seccondary systems.

    but when we get to max level, most of the advancement stops..

     

    They need to create an MMO that allows people to keep advancing all of the above and you will have a guaranteed hit..

    Play Lineage 2.

    Or EVE?

    But I will agree, I really only play to advance my character, and I like multiple options, not just in one or two areas such as so often is used, gear.

    DAOC had a pretty good mix of this back in the day, now it's a bit static but you can earn realm abilities for just about forever but not many new surprises.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    D3 will have endless leveling and endless random dungeons.

    Not a MMO, but close enough for me.

  • crack_foxcrack_fox WellingtonPosts: 402Member
    Originally posted by Mr.Kujo

     I'm pretty sure people just love it when numbers grow and they can show off with big numbers to everyone. It is similar to titles in real life, people work hard only to have new title next to their name, it is less about getting knowledge and more about those few new letters just to be respected.

    I'm sure there are people who love showing off their numbers, or their titles or whatever it is that they need to feel good about themselves. But I really don't know that you can equate numbers or titles with respect. Knowledge and skill is what earns you respect, at least in the real world where the real people live. In an MMO bigger numbers are merely an indicator of how much time you have spent in a game. The kindest thing that can be said is that they are a marker of dedication. 

    Anyway, I disagree with the idea of endless leveling. I think MMOs need to adapt to their audiences, and what we see is that players rarely spend more than 3-4 months in a game. So I would suggest that games be developed to be cyclical, and based around 'episodes' lasting upto 6 months, culminating in some final event that influences the next cycle.

     

  • MendelMendel Marietta, GAPosts: 925Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by maplestone

    Lately I've been leaning more towards ideas that abandon the idea of a character level or gear grind entirely and instead focus on reputation-like local advancement curves that are tied to a specific zone, faction or quest.

     

    I'd prefer this approach.  And there needs to be a very substantial difference between each degree of these curves.  I.E., these need to be on a very difficult learning curve -- at least sum of the numbers or an exponential curve.  A typical sum of the numbers progression might be:  starting at a Neutral level (0), it might take a difficult (6+ steps) quest to reach level 1, and 3 harder quests to reach level 2, and 6 even harder quests to reach level 3.

    Some same progression curves. (1st 6 levels only)

    Sum of the numbers progression = (1, 3, 6, 10, 15, 21, ...)

    Number squared (simple exponential) progression = (1, 4, 9, 15, 25, 35, ...)

    Number cubed (higher exponential) progression = (1, 8, 27, 64, 125, 216, ...)

    Factorial progression = (1, 2, 6, 24, 120, 729, ...)

    As you can see in the example above, increasing the number of steps in the quest combined with a progression can quickly impact the total number of steps (and therefore time) necessary for small steps.

    The nice thing about a progression curve like Sum of the Numbers is that a relatively finite number of levels can create a very nice distinction between the rawest tyro (level 0), an apprentice (level 4), a journeyman (level 7), master (level 10) and the greatest grandmaster (level 13).  This was a core component of many of the skill systems in my abandoned MMORPG, where the level is a bonus (on a 3d10 roll -- a pretty steep bell curve).  It made it possible for anyone to beat anyone, but the higher skill would prevail most of the time.

    I was using this for skills, but it would be easy to implement factions with a similar curve.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

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