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Returning player: slap in the face

IlludoIlludo Port HopePosts: 47Member Uncommon

When SWToR launched, I bought the box with the required one month sub and enjoyed it quite a bit, but decided to quit like the majority of the players back then. Reading the forums here about the new patch made me interested in starting again, so I went ahead and downloaded the game and logged in to create a new character.
I wanted to roll a Chiss (species) Bounty Hunter, but this species is locked, only subscribers or cartel coin buyers can unlock this species. When the game was P2P this species was readily available for BH. For me this is just a slap in the face for a returning player, old subscriber. If you want people to play your game again, why would you create a barrier even before logging in to the actual world?

I understand that F2P players should be limited in their gameplay to some extent but even limiting character races that were available to you before is a bad move for returning players and for me personally it made me shut down the game again.
Don't know if this has been discussed before but I really felt let down, it was a real surprise for me.

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Comments

  • skyline385skyline385 BangalorePosts: 564Member
    Originally posted by Illudo

    When SWToR launched, I bought the box with the required one month sub and enjoyed it quite a bit, but decided to quit like the majority of the players back then. Reading the forums here about the new patch made me interested in starting again, so I went ahead and downloaded the game and logged in to create a new character.
    I wanted to roll a Chiss (species) Bounty Hunter, but this species is locked, only subscribers or cartel coin buyers can unlock this species. When the game was P2P this species was readily available for BH. For me this is just a slap in the face for a returning player, old subscriber. If you want people to play your game again, why would you create a barrier even before logging in to the actual world?

    I understand that F2P players should be limited in their gameplay to some extent but even limiting character races that were available to you before is a bad move for returning players and for me personally it made me shut down the game again.
    Don't know if this has been discussed before but I really felt let down, it was a real surprise for me.

    So what you are saying is you are not able to play a race without a sub which was not playable anyways when the game was launched without a sub and that they are available in the same way they were before.

    OK image

    image
  • FrostveinFrostvein Monogahilla, NJPosts: 157Member
    Yea, their F2P model is terrible.
  • strangepowersstrangepowers Chiacgo, ILPosts: 602Member Common

    The slap in the face for me was returning, as a paid subscriber, to find server merges and being forced to change all my characters names totally negating the point of the head start.

    The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  • phennexionphennexion edmonton, ABPosts: 63Member
    Originally posted by Illudo

    When SWToR launched, I bought the box with the required one month sub and enjoyed it quite a bit, but decided to quit like the majority of the players back then. Reading the forums here about the new patch made me interested in starting again, so I went ahead and downloaded the game and logged in to create a new character.
    I wanted to roll a Chiss (species) Bounty Hunter, but this species is locked, only subscribers or cartel coin buyers can unlock this species. When the game was P2P this species was readily available for BH. For me this is just a slap in the face for a returning player, old subscriber. If you want people to play your game again, why would you create a barrier even before logging in to the actual world?

    I understand that F2P players should be limited in their gameplay to some extent but even limiting character races that were available to you before is a bad move for returning players and for me personally it made me shut down the game again.
    Don't know if this has been discussed before but I really felt let down, it was a real surprise for me.

     

    Man is your life really that boring you need to wrong a 3 paragraph post about how you couldn't play the race you wanted for free? lol

  • Scott23Scott23 Moline, ILPosts: 108Member Uncommon
    So... pay to play it?  Not trying to be a smart-***, but you could pay a 1 month sub and start your character.  Once you have started it will remain unlocked (at least for that character).
  • KirinRahlKirinRahl New Smyrna Beach, FLPosts: 153Member

    Three Warzone queues per week for free players?

    Go fuck yourself, SWTOR.

    I posted http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=204881 because I loved the PvP game and I wanted to see it get better and more rewarding.

    Now it's worse.

    In what world is it a good idea to keep new blood out of PvP?  What in the ever-loving fuck could possibly be wrong with the designer who made this decision?

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Chiacgo, ILPosts: 602Member Common


    Originally posted by KirinRahl
    Three Warzone queues per week for free players?Go fuck yourself, SWTOR.I posted http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=204881 because I loved the PvP game and I wanted to see it get better and more rewarding.Now it's worse.In what world is it a good idea to keep new blood out of PvP?  What in the ever-loving fuck could possibly be wrong with the designer who made this decision?


    Uh the one that wants you to subscribe...lol.

    Its a glorified trial, it's obvious and the subscription is cheap.


    You claim to want to see the PVP get better and more rewarding... that takes development and in turn capital.

    Beggars can't be choosers.

    The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  • WhiteLanternWhiteLantern Nevada, MOPosts: 2,732Member

    We see this after every F2P conversion.

     

    Returning player: "When I payed, I got ________ . Now that I don't pay, I don't get _______ ?"

    I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  • KirinRahlKirinRahl New Smyrna Beach, FLPosts: 153Member

    That is an incredibly shortsighted view of things.

    F2P shouldn't be an intro or a trial.  It should be the game, although a version of the game in which you have to do a lot to get the things people pay to play can easily skip into.  Most F2P games that succeed and make money do so because they do it this way, rather than allowing play for a short time and then requiring money to press on.  Arcades were tiny versions of that, and those motherfuckers are dead and gone.

    Also, as I posted earlier, it would not take a significant amount of development to make some very positive changes happen.  It's possible to overhaul the entire PvP currency system, but it's not really necessary in order to make that constant march onward (read: progression) actually felt.

    In what world does it make horse sense to make people stop playing early?  What you need for a healthy PvP game (because most people don't PvP at all) is to have new blood up in that shit.  You have to have people actually playing.  Not a few of them, a lot of them, and achieving critical mass is of incredible importance in a game that requires other people to play against.

    The way to keep people in PvP, and thereby keep PvP interesting, moving, and running, is not to lock people out of queueing at all after a few times.  Do you see World of Tanks doing that? 

    Does League of Legends make more money than God himself and have more players than every game in history because they stop people from queueing after the third time in a given week?

    Absolutely not.  There's always new blood.  There are always people for their real customers, the people who pay for things in the game, to play against.

    Locking that off is ridiculous, and saying 'it's because they need to make money' is... like, Mr. Magoo levels of myopic.

  • ZzadZzad Palma de MallorcaPosts: 1,332Member Uncommon
    SWTOR has the worst FTP model I've ever seen...
  • black777black777 chicoutimi, QCPosts: 100Member

    Seriously, what did you expect from a F2P... Never the less, this game is doomed.

     

    image
  • maxima29maxima29 iowa, IAPosts: 203Member
    Yippy another "its not free enough thread". do people have any self respect anymore you people cry a video game is not free enough really? You can play multiple toons from 1-50!! That's pretty good if you ask me. If you play 3.5hrs a week and paid a whopping $15/month it would be less then $1/hr of entertainment. Oh but your counter is going to be its not worth a sub...well my response to you is if its not worth a sub and not free enough find a new game and stop crying.
  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by maxima29
    Yippy another "its not free enough thread". do people have any self respect anymore you people cry a video game is not free enough really? You can play multiple toons from 1-50!! That's pretty good if you ask me. If you play 3.5hrs a week and paid a whopping $15/month it would be less then $1/hr of entertainment. Oh but your counter is going to be its not worth a sub...well my response to you is if its not worth a sub and not free enough find a new game and stop crying.

    It really seems to bother you that people hate this game so much. It's not your fault man, and you shouldn't feel responsible that others don't like the game. Bioware did this, not you, it's not your fault Will. It's not your fault.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • Blazer6992Blazer6992 Las Vegas, NVPosts: 606Member Uncommon

    /slap

    Wait till you see the other things that you can't do or have that was also available to you at the start.

     

  • skyline385skyline385 BangalorePosts: 564Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by maxima29
    Yippy another "its not free enough thread". do people have any self respect anymore you people cry a video game is not free enough really? You can play multiple toons from 1-50!! That's pretty good if you ask me. If you play 3.5hrs a week and paid a whopping $15/month it would be less then $1/hr of entertainment. Oh but your counter is going to be its not worth a sub...well my response to you is if its not worth a sub and not free enough find a new game and stop crying.

    It really seems to bother you that people hate this game so much. It's not your fault man, and you shouldn't feel responsible that others don't like the game. Bioware did this, not you, it's not your fault Will. It's not your fault.

    It really seems to bother you that people enjoy the game so much. You don't even play this game man, and you shouldn't waste years of your life hating a godamned game. Bioware did this, not you, it's not your fault Will. It's not your fault.

    image
  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by skyline385
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by maxima29
    Yippy another "its not free enough thread". do people have any self respect anymore you people cry a video game is not free enough really? You can play multiple toons from 1-50!! That's pretty good if you ask me. If you play 3.5hrs a week and paid a whopping $15/month it would be less then $1/hr of entertainment. Oh but your counter is going to be its not worth a sub...well my response to you is if its not worth a sub and not free enough find a new game and stop crying.

    It really seems to bother you that people hate this game so much. It's not your fault man, and you shouldn't feel responsible that others don't like the game. Bioware did this, not you, it's not your fault Will. It's not your fault.

    It really seems to bother you that people enjoy the game so much. You don't even play this game man, and you shouldn't waste years of your life hating a godamned game. Bioware did this, not you, it's not your fault Will. It's not your fault.

    That's good mocking I guess? I tried it again last night bro. Nothing new to report.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • skyline385skyline385 BangalorePosts: 564Member
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by skyline385
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by maxima29
    Yippy another "its not free enough thread". do people have any self respect anymore you people cry a video game is not free enough really? You can play multiple toons from 1-50!! That's pretty good if you ask me. If you play 3.5hrs a week and paid a whopping $15/month it would be less then $1/hr of entertainment. Oh but your counter is going to be its not worth a sub...well my response to you is if its not worth a sub and not free enough find a new game and stop crying.

    It really seems to bother you that people hate this game so much. It's not your fault man, and you shouldn't feel responsible that others don't like the game. Bioware did this, not you, it's not your fault Will. It's not your fault.

    It really seems to bother you that people enjoy the game so much. You don't even play this game man, and you shouldn't waste years of your life hating a godamned game. Bioware did this, not you, it's not your fault Will. It's not your fault.

    That's good mocking I guess? I tried it again last night bro. Nothing new to report.

    Of course you did bro, of course you did.

    image
  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by skyline385
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by skyline385
    Originally posted by ignore_me
    Originally posted by maxima29
    Yippy another "its not free enough thread". do people have any self respect anymore you people cry a video game is not free enough really? You can play multiple toons from 1-50!! That's pretty good if you ask me. If you play 3.5hrs a week and paid a whopping $15/month it would be less then $1/hr of entertainment. Oh but your counter is going to be its not worth a sub...well my response to you is if its not worth a sub and not free enough find a new game and stop crying.

    It really seems to bother you that people hate this game so much. It's not your fault man, and you shouldn't feel responsible that others don't like the game. Bioware did this, not you, it's not your fault Will. It's not your fault.

    It really seems to bother you that people enjoy the game so much. You don't even play this game man, and you shouldn't waste years of your life hating a godamned game. Bioware did this, not you, it's not your fault Will. It's not your fault.

    That's good mocking I guess? I tried it again last night bro. Nothing new to report.

    Of course you did bro, of course you did.

    Glad you came around :)

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitPosts: 872Member
    Originally posted by strangepowers

     


    Originally posted by KirinRahl
    Three Warzone queues per week for free players?

     

    Go fuck yourself, SWTOR.

    I posted http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=204881 because I loved the PvP game and I wanted to see it get better and more rewarding.

    Now it's worse.

    In what world is it a good idea to keep new blood out of PvP?  What in the ever-loving fuck could possibly be wrong with the designer who made this decision?


     


    Uh the one that wants you to subscribe...lol.

    Its a glorified trial, it's obvious and the subscription is cheap.


    You claim to want to see the PVP get better and more rewarding... that takes development and in turn capital.

    Beggars can't be choosers.

    I think the point is, there is no reason to sub.

    Bw is pricing their content the wrong way. It should mostly be box to play.

    I would rather pay around 75 dollars as two expansion- nearly 2 years since release - for all the extra content since release instead of paying a sub for a game i do not think is sub worthy in the pvp and open world pvp aspect. The mmo part is really not important and i can attribute it to the fleet being a hub but even so themepark player crafting is not important which also makes exploration not important. Also money is not important in game ( nothing to spend money on other than collectibles or repair costs - what abput seige equipment, player housing, gambling, player bounties etc? ) if...you are in a good guild do not need money.Maybe someone in your guild likes to rp the mmo part and failing at raids to force you to try other parts of the game like getter better gear from easier content or grinding dailies for repair costs. But in an actual functioning guild, it will not need money to complete content and get best gear. Thats a major reason to not sub imo.

    The game should work on a box to play model and go away from the sub all together. The sub is for a game like wow which has a lot of content and that was a historical pricing model, or a new game like swtor which offers a lot of new content. Their sub is like buying content, and 15 dollars a month for their terrible pvp, terrible lack of exploration, non important crafting, no long term goal based rewards like player housing, and no open world pvp is not worth it.

    So if a person is a subscriber, then its an over price method to box to play, and they the swtor devs even give content release schedule because thats why you are subbed. But even f2p players get it, so sub is more premium, but as stated the content imo is not great for a pvper and the game should move more to b2p with more expansions and class stories.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • MMO-VeteranMMO-Veteran Lufkin, TXPosts: 45Member
    It's not a slap in the face for a game to make you subscribe to experience expansion content... I mean how do you think a game finances itself if every aspect of it is free? Should they run ads every 10-15 minutes? I agree with some of the other posters; regardless to your complaints the game is free 1-50 and that's a lot better then the f2p model a couple years back for AAA titles.
  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Incomparable
    Originally posted by strangepowers

     


    Originally posted by KirinRahl
    Three Warzone queues per week for free players?

     

    Go fuck yourself, SWTOR.

    I posted http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=204881 because I loved the PvP game and I wanted to see it get better and more rewarding.

    Now it's worse.

    In what world is it a good idea to keep new blood out of PvP?  What in the ever-loving fuck could possibly be wrong with the designer who made this decision?


     


    Uh the one that wants you to subscribe...lol.

    Its a glorified trial, it's obvious and the subscription is cheap.


    You claim to want to see the PVP get better and more rewarding... that takes development and in turn capital.

    Beggars can't be choosers.

    I think the point is, there is no reason to sub.

    Bw is pricing their content the wrong way. It should mostly be box to play.

    I would rather pay around 75 dollars as two expansion- nearly 2 years since release - for all the extra content since release instead of paying a sub for a game i do not think is sub worthy in the pvp and open world pvp aspect. The mmo part is really not important and i can attribute it to the fleet being a hub but even so themepark player crafting is not important which also makes exploration not important. Also money is not important in game ( nothing to spend money on other than collectibles or repair costs - what abput seige equipment, player housing, gambling, player bounties etc? ) if...you are in a good guild do not need money.Maybe someone in your guild likes to rp the mmo part and failing at raids to force you to try other parts of the game like getter better gear from easier content or grinding dailies for repair costs. But in an actual functioning guild, it will not need money to complete content and get best gear. Thats a major reason to not sub imo.

    The game should work on a box to play model and go away from the sub all together. The sub is for a game like wow which has a lot of content and that was a historical pricing model, or a new game like swtor which offers a lot of new content. Their sub is like buying content, and 15 dollars a month for their terrible pvp, terrible lack of exploration, non important crafting, no long term goal based rewards like player housing, and no open world pvp is not worth it.

    So if a person is a subscriber, then its an over price method to box to play, and they the swtor devs even give content release schedule because thats why you are subbed. But even f2p players get it, so sub is more premium, but as stated the content imo is not great for a pvper and the game should move more to b2p with more expansions and class stories.

    OK lets do some basic math.  Completely ignoring the various debate of weather SWTOR is less filling or tastes great; box to play is rather stupid.

     

    Lets see 200 ishmillion in development    2 ish million in box sales at the avg $75 ed price 150 ish million

     

    Duh

    image
  • MMO-VeteranMMO-Veteran Lufkin, TXPosts: 45Member
    Originally posted by BMBender
    Originally posted by Incomparable
    Originally posted by strangepowers

     


    Originally posted by KirinRahl
    Three Warzone queues per week for free players?

     

    Go fuck yourself, SWTOR.

    I posted http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=204881 because I loved the PvP game and I wanted to see it get better and more rewarding.

    Now it's worse.

    In what world is it a good idea to keep new blood out of PvP?  What in the ever-loving fuck could possibly be wrong with the designer who made this decision?


     


    Uh the one that wants you to subscribe...lol.

    Its a glorified trial, it's obvious and the subscription is cheap.


    You claim to want to see the PVP get better and more rewarding... that takes development and in turn capital.

    Beggars can't be choosers.

    I think the point is, there is no reason to sub.

    Bw is pricing their content the wrong way. It should mostly be box to play.

    I would rather pay around 75 dollars as two expansion- nearly 2 years since release - for all the extra content since release instead of paying a sub for a game i do not think is sub worthy in the pvp and open world pvp aspect. The mmo part is really not important and i can attribute it to the fleet being a hub but even so themepark player crafting is not important which also makes exploration not important. Also money is not important in game ( nothing to spend money on other than collectibles or repair costs - what abput seige equipment, player housing, gambling, player bounties etc? ) if...you are in a good guild do not need money.Maybe someone in your guild likes to rp the mmo part and failing at raids to force you to try other parts of the game like getter better gear from easier content or grinding dailies for repair costs. But in an actual functioning guild, it will not need money to complete content and get best gear. Thats a major reason to not sub imo.

    The game should work on a box to play model and go away from the sub all together. The sub is for a game like wow which has a lot of content and that was a historical pricing model, or a new game like swtor which offers a lot of new content. Their sub is like buying content, and 15 dollars a month for their terrible pvp, terrible lack of exploration, non important crafting, no long term goal based rewards like player housing, and no open world pvp is not worth it.

    So if a person is a subscriber, then its an over price method to box to play, and they the swtor devs even give content release schedule because thats why you are subbed. But even f2p players get it, so sub is more premium, but as stated the content imo is not great for a pvper and the game should move more to b2p with more expansions and class stories.

    OK lets do some basic math.  Completely ignoring the various debate of weather SWTOR is less filling or tastes great; box to play is rather stupid.

     

    Lets see 200 ishmillion in development    2 ish million in box sales at the avg $75 ed price 150 ish million

     

    Duh

    I think most people could argue that many other studios could have done far more with the Starwars IP and 200 million. They really dropped the ball; I had a fun time until about 35-40 grinded my way to max and there was no end-game ... that was launch after using 200 million. That's rather insane if I do say so myself.

  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMO-Veteran
    Originally posted by BMBender
    Originally posted by Incomparable
    Originally posted by strangepowers

     


    Originally posted by KirinRahl
    Three Warzone queues per week for free players?

     

    Go fuck yourself, SWTOR.

    I posted http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=204881 because I loved the PvP game and I wanted to see it get better and more rewarding.

    Now it's worse.

    In what world is it a good idea to keep new blood out of PvP?  What in the ever-loving fuck could possibly be wrong with the designer who made this decision?


     


    Uh the one that wants you to subscribe...lol.

    Its a glorified trial, it's obvious and the subscription is cheap.


    You claim to want to see the PVP get better and more rewarding... that takes development and in turn capital.

    Beggars can't be choosers.

    I think the point is, there is no reason to sub.

    Bw is pricing their content the wrong way. It should mostly be box to play.

    I would rather pay around 75 dollars as two expansion- nearly 2 years since release - for all the extra content since release instead of paying a sub for a game i do not think is sub worthy in the pvp and open world pvp aspect. The mmo part is really not important and i can attribute it to the fleet being a hub but even so themepark player crafting is not important which also makes exploration not important. Also money is not important in game ( nothing to spend money on other than collectibles or repair costs - what abput seige equipment, player housing, gambling, player bounties etc? ) if...you are in a good guild do not need money.Maybe someone in your guild likes to rp the mmo part and failing at raids to force you to try other parts of the game like getter better gear from easier content or grinding dailies for repair costs. But in an actual functioning guild, it will not need money to complete content and get best gear. Thats a major reason to not sub imo.

    The game should work on a box to play model and go away from the sub all together. The sub is for a game like wow which has a lot of content and that was a historical pricing model, or a new game like swtor which offers a lot of new content. Their sub is like buying content, and 15 dollars a month for their terrible pvp, terrible lack of exploration, non important crafting, no long term goal based rewards like player housing, and no open world pvp is not worth it.

    So if a person is a subscriber, then its an over price method to box to play, and they the swtor devs even give content release schedule because thats why you are subbed. But even f2p players get it, so sub is more premium, but as stated the content imo is not great for a pvper and the game should move more to b2p with more expansions and class stories.

    OK lets do some basic math.  Completely ignoring the various debate of weather SWTOR is less filling or tastes great; box to play is rather stupid.

     

    Lets see 200 ishmillion in development    2 ish million in box sales at the avg $75 ed price 150 ish million

     

    Duh

    I think most people could argue that many other studios could have done far more with the Starwars IP and 200 million. They really dropped the ball; I had a fun time until about 35-40 grinded my way to max and there was no end-game ... that was launch after using 200 million. That's rather insane if I do say so myself.

    yea but argument they were making is switch the current existing game to Box2play not whatif scenarios with another dev/pub

    image
  • TiamatRoarTiamatRoar Potomac, MDPosts: 1,015Member Uncommon
    There's really no way Star Wars could win with that budget in its current state now.  I hope this is a lesson to other MMORPG developers to not blow the entire budget on cut scenes that everyone will view within the first few weeks in a game that's supposed to last years in order to return on its investment.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Posts: 2,065Member Uncommon

    I can't agree that this is a "slap in the face". You can call it a poor choice by EA for sure.

    Is it a poor choice however?

    SWTOR isn't a f2p game. It was designed around a subscription model and still has subscribers.

    Making more things available for free should encourage f2p folks to stick around / try the game. And spend money. The more they give away the less likely that people are to subscribe however. And that means less money.

    So this may be a good choice by EA. We don't know. And sadly EA won't know either.

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