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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Are Four Classes Enough?



  • nerovipus32nerovipus32 dublinPosts: 2,735Member
    Originally posted by Isawa
    Originally posted by funcon
    Only 4 classes? Bye Bye TESO.

    And how many classes were in the latest Elder Scrolls games? How diverse was one person's player compared to another? One less ignorant clown to populate the game I suppose ha.

    I wonder who'll be the ignorant one 6 months after release.

  • ignore_meignore_me Apple Valley, CAPosts: 1,987Member
    Originally posted by Hardanger
    Just having a lot of classes only provides an illusion of variety and choice, anyways.  I like the idea of having four archetypes upon which everything else is built by the player.

    Give me variety, if you can't do that give me the illusion of variety. Post that don't bother because I've lost interest in the game because it was economized to death.

    3 classes with one button to press each seems to get people all excited these days.

    Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,949Member Rare

    I'm really hoping it will. ESO is not making the hard "you are this class, you where and use this here" system of years past.


    On top of being able to ware and use what you want (I think) the analogous nature of combat could make things pretty darn cool. 

    In fact, Im not really even worried about character customization in ESO. I'm far more worried about the lack of Wpvp and what Cryodill actually is. Is it another "eternal battle ground? or is Cryodill a fully actulized world?
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 21,625Member Epic
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Since you can use, mix, match any skill does it really matter? If  you look at the Elder Scrolls games that list "classes" (such as Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblvion) all the classes are just various subdivisions of the available skills. So for example, here is chart for morrowind classes: Anyone can have any of these skills but the grouping of certain skills (which doesn't give any bonuses by the way) is then determined to be "x class" because that class might evince the properties that those skills represent. same with Oblvion: Daggerfall:   So "yes" the classes have a few predetermined skills (my opinion is that they should allow character creation like Morrowind/Oblvion but "whatever") you can have a character that uses bow, heavy armor and say some sort of magic. Or a light armored mace wielding character with some sort of healing. etc. so, from the article: In a way, classes in ESO are almost unnecessary.  The developers could have easily given players access to all class skills and trees and let them delve into each of them, and the effect would be the same.  But the decision to link at least some character differentiation to class is probably linked to the fact that classless systems have never been widely accepted by the mass market gamer ESO hopes to attract with the Bethesda IP.  By picking a class at the start of a game, you're making your first decision on who you are in that world. "so yes" 4 classes are enough as we will all be messing with them anyway.

    Why have classes at all if that is the case?

    I think their "thinking" is "set the players who are unsure on a path and let them branch out from there".

    hey, you're speaking to the choir here. I can't account for ridiculous decisions.

    All I know is you can mix and match your skills.

  • IsawaIsawa Middle 0 Nowhere, ORPosts: 1,051Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nerovipus32
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    .... etc. so, from the article: In a way, classes in ESO are almost unnecessary.  The developers could have easily given players access to all class skills and trees and let them delve into each of them, and the effect would be the same.  But the decision to link at least some character differentiation to class is probably linked to the fact that classless systems have never been widely accepted by the mass market gamer ESO hopes to attract with the Bethesda IP.  By picking a class at the start of a game, you're making your first decision on who you are in that world. "so yes" 4 classes are enough as we will all be messing with them anyway.

    Why have classes at all if that is the case?

    Because of people's mindsets that classes need to included in an mmorpg. The need to have that structure and role layed out for them. Just read the comments here, people are upset over 4 classes, when in reality any class can go off into any direction that player wants - nearly nullifying the class system itself. However, each class does have it's 3 sets of skills tailored for it, so folks can choose to play the "class role".

    So ESO, starts off with the basic structure for that mindset, but then allows the player to do as they wish. Have to introduce changes slowly for some ;)

  • AlomarAlomar Middle EarthPosts: 763Member Uncommon
    If you don't think 4 classes are enough for a launch in this case, then you haven't tested ESO yet. If you have, and still think so you need something else to do with your time.
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  • WikileaksEUWikileaksEU GothenburgPosts: 108Member Uncommon

    It depends on if you can build each class in many different ways, yes then it is enough. If you can't build your character in many different ways, then no it isn't enough.

    Like in Guild Wars 2, you don't have much to chose from like you had in Guild Wars 1.

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by Mithrundir
    If you don't think 4 classes are enough for a launch in this case, then you haven't tested ESO yet. If you have, and still think so you need something else to do with your time.

    Most people here seem to just assume that it is a question. If only people atleast skimmed through his post you'd notice that it is an arguing text about the class system, posing questions and answering them in rational ways. He talks about the (un)necessity of the classes, both ways. I think that if people whom aren't too in touched with TES:O's development could just read the posts instead of just posting, it'd be easier.


    I'm not referring to you, just that it seemed relevant to your post.

  • TorvalTorval Posts: 11,869Member Legendary

    I think it would have been cooler if they had offered social archetypes to start with that had easier access to certain skills and paths than other archetypes. You could still learn anything, but for some you might need to go out of your way (quests, guild reputation, find far off location, etc) to open up those skill paths that your background wasn't associated with.

    I'll use a very common example: A player could come from a moderately successful landowning family where they would have educational or vocation opportunities that were different from someone who came from a less formally educated or lower class family. It could also be regionally based, so a player from one realm in certain areas might have an easier more direct training path to some vocations/skills than a player from a different town, region, or faction.

    In any event, an open skill system is pretty cool. I hope they do it right and truly let someone customize their character how they want.

    Centuries ago, in primitive times, before the dawn of civilization, there were things that would be inconceivable to us today; such things as poverty, disease, violence, senility, and love.
  • grundjawp876grundjawp876 Stockton, CAPosts: 1Member
    It's a façade of actual real control over your character. I say do away with the classes and stick with a race/skill tree based character. That way it is a truly immersive world without "Night Blades" or "Dragon Knights". C'mon kids grow up. h
  • plasmaballsplasmaballs Temecula, CAPosts: 3Member
    I think you should choose a class only to give you like +10% xp towards "class" skills and then make all skills available to everyone.  There should be some reason why everyone isn't a jack of all trades.  There should be a bonus for staying within your character type.  Not a penalty for going outside the box, but just some incentives.  Classes exist because they would exist in real life.  The mage that happens to be a good archer should be the exception.  Not every single player is going to be a heavy armor sneaky archer that can also do magic.
  • xSoulflamexxSoulflamex New York, NYPosts: 1Member

    Less classes are better, not more. The fewer classes there are the more customization options are available to your character and the less you will be defined solely by your class. If there are more classes then players would be forced into one particular playstyle. 

    Also, Racial Skill lines give 15% boosts to a certain skill line, not class skills.

  • plasmaballsplasmaballs Temecula, CAPosts: 3Member

    On a separate note, I think the current classes are too specific.  I would prefer more generic classes.  Mage, Priest, Thief, Warrior and then make Night Blades and Dragon Knights things your character can join in game.


  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,097Member Uncommon

    Attention to the many above and probably more to post below that did not bother reading the article carefully or who do not understand just how diverse the skills will be, please read the following. Source is Tamriel Foundry.

    Overall Class Design

    • All three alliances have access to the same classes. The four playable classes at launch will be Dragonknight, Templar, Sorcerer, and Nightblade. The game had originally featured planned to feature the "Warden" class, as well as possibly a second finesse based class, but ZOS has opted for fewer base classes in favor of more open-ended character progression.(TF1),(GF1)
    • Each class can use every type of weapon in the game as well as every type of armor. As the player uses a particular weapon type they gain skill and further proficiency with that type of armament. All weapons will require practice to master. Mastering a weapon can unlock additional alternative melee attacks that can be slotted.(GI1),(TF1)
    • Players can choose between light, medium, or heavy armor, or can elect to use a mixture of multiple types. Light armor yields bonuses to spell damage and magicka regeneration. Medium armor improves a character's use of stamina-based abilities like dodging, sprinting, or sneaking. Heavy armor grants a bonus to incoming healing recieved as well as damage absorbed.(ESO4)
    • Each class can unlock a wide arsenal of skills and abilities, from which players may choose six to actively use at any given time. These class abilities can be changed on the fly, and reflect a players current "loadout" that can be adapted to various situations. Skill selection is one way in which players can differentiate themselves from others of their class.(GI1),(PCG1)
    • Constellations and birthsigns are incorporated into TES:O in the form of Mundus stones, which function similarly to guardian stones in Skyrim, allowing the player to choose a permanent buff associated with a particular constellation. Some Mundus stones also unlock an additional ability for players who have them active.(GI1),(GI3)

    Character Advancement Systems

    • The major attributes of the game are health, stamina, magicka, armor, and power. At each level up, you can place an attribute point into either health, stamina, or magicka. These attribute points increase your hero's available pool of each resource, allowing them to specialize in a certain style of combat.(TF1)
    • Perks exist and will be similar to talents in previous MMOs. Paul Sage emphasized that perks will provide substantial benefit and be pivotal in character development and growth.(ME3),(GI3)
    • Weapon attacks, class skills, and ultimate abilities all level up as you use them in combat. Advancing these skills unlocks improved versions as your mastery improves. Using abilities successfully in combat increases the character's proficiency with that ability, as well as the overall skill type. Higher skill level in a given tree increases the number of abilities a character has access to within that tree. Equipping items and putting skills in your hotbar enables them to level as you defeat enemies, splitting the overall pool of experience across all of your active abilities, armor, and weapons.(TF1),(GF1),(GN1)
    • While all classes have a basic proficiency with every weapon and armor type, advanced offensive and defensive abilities are only unlocked through advancing in the relevant skill trees and using skill points to unlock and upgrade their abilities. (GF1)
    • There are seven confirmed varieties of skill trees within the game: Class, Weapon, Armor, Racial, World, Guild, and AvA. These categories are (in some cases) further broken down. Each class has three sub-trees, and AvA also features three skill trees. Unique quest based skill trees like those for Lycanthropy or Vampiriism are also present. (GF1),(PA1)
    • There are six overall weapon types which the player can level and unlock special abilities: two-handed, dual wield, one hand and shield, bow, destruction staff, and restoration staff. There are many varities of weapons within each general category, such as daggers, swords, and maces within one-handed, or fire, frost, and lightning staves within destruction staff.(MA1)
    • Individual abilities can be leveled up and ?morphed? into more advanced versions of the basic form. An ability can be morphed by spending an additional skill point after leveling the individual ability through five ranks. Morphing allows the player to choose between two advanced skills, and this decision can be respecialized if the player changes his/her mind.(PA1)

    Class Details

    • The Dragonknight is an offensive warrior with many controlling abilities. Dragonknights emphasize direct assaults wielding fire-based spells, preferring to engage and dispatch their foes in melee. The Dragonknight has a combination of damage-dealing, damage absorbing, and armor enhancing abilities.(TF1)
    • The Templar is a stalwart defensive fighter, calling upon the power of the sun to damage foes and heal allies. Templars are less offensive than the Dragonknight, but have additional tools that are useful for survival of both themselves and their allies.(TF1)
    • Sorcerers are offensive magicka wielders, channeling elemental attacks to destroy their foes. The Sorcerer class has three damage-dealing skill sets to draw from: Dark Magic grants stuns, disorients, knockbacks, and other types of crowd-control, Daedric Summoning offers combat pets, damage shields, and curses, and Storm Calling gives pure damage-based abilities.(TF1),(GF1)
    • Details regarding the Nightblade class have not yet been announced, but we know it will be a finesse based assasin style archetype.(TF1)


    There Is Always Hope!

  • MhorhamMhorham Frankville, ONPosts: 146Member

    The fault will not be in minimizing the impact class choice has on the game. It will be in allowing every character to potentially level up every skill available across the board. There is not going to be a skill cap, so characters will all begin to blend together as they mature. I feel that individuality will be limited to what you choose to slot for that particular adventure. Not what your character is capable of or what role it was created to fulfill.

    Darkfall, with its many mistakes, at least recognized the error of this and tried to correct it. UO and Asheron's Call got it right by introducing a type of skill cap that gently guided players toward archetype characters rather than the ridged systems of class based gameplay.

  • EaderbrecaEaderbreca Streamer LPosts: 44Member
    I can't wait for the gameee omg :) It's plenty of classes I agree with all you've said.

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  • OlgarkOlgark BostonPosts: 341Member Uncommon

    They are not classes, they are skill sets like a normal game of The Elder Scrolls Skyrim Oblivion and Morrowind.


    You can pick and choose skill lines once you pick a skill set. There are no real classes in this game.


  • MhorhamMhorham Frankville, ONPosts: 146Member
    Originally posted by Wiha
    4 classes are perfectly OK in ESO because there are over a hundred skills for each class. Number of classes does not show anything.  

    actually no.  There are about 100 skills and there are a few that are class specific. Those few are all that separate one class from another. Everything like Heavy/med/light armor, 2h/1h/2x weapons and the like come to us separate of any class restrictions and can be picked up by everyone.

    The  classes are the only thing giving any difference to endgame characters who have spread out their range of skills through lateral progression at endgame.

  • MuffinStumpMuffinStump Frankfort, KYPosts: 474Member Uncommon

    You would think that people who go out of their way to post on a website devoted to MMO coverage and discussion might be able to determine the nature of the class system with a quick search or by simply reading the article in question.

    Ugh. I guess they need to bring back the ability to name your own class so that they can boast "we have over a million classes".

    I call dibs on 'Cat Wrangler'

  • TrickutTrickut Winnipeg, MBPosts: 1Member
    4 Classes are not enough at all, me personally, I like to have a unique character, when I travel the plains of Cyrodiil, I wanna use spells, weapons, attacks etc. that I don't see often, only having 4 classes, I'll be seeing the same attacks and stuff consistently. Some things I could see are like classes based off of being in groups, like Clerics/healers, necromancers for people who like to travel the plains solo but like that bit of help, maybe one day integrate cross classes, like a magic archer, where instead the archer using arrows and bolts, they use magic arrows, and like a hardcore battle mage sort of thing where the persons armor and weapons are 100% magic based. Just some suggestions....
  • ArzhAngelArzhAngel Odense VPosts: 427Member

    They 4 classes, can chose into 3 basic classes, that 4 x 3 (altlesed), beside that all 4 classes can mix there skill build between all the classes skill lines, and fare more skill sets form other areas.

    So only 4 classes = NO, many more.

    Do I like this, yea. But will it be fun over time, no. As in any other mmo out there with multi class systems, after 1 mounth there will only be a few set ups that works and that all will go for. And after that there will be added multi spec in the game. That will make the players less importen and the game less social - now that any player can become what they whant and what the gruop set up needs, with one clik on a botton.  

  • jdlamson75jdlamson75 Jacksonville, FLPosts: 998Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RelGn
    I bet this  game will be another cashgrab mark my words


  • Arathir86Arathir86 CanberraPosts: 442Member Uncommon

    Your first problem is thinking of them as Classes.


    I'd label them as Archetypes, and what you do within those Archetypes is your choice.

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  • MMORPGtesterMMORPGtester Home, PAPosts: 91Member Uncommon

    1 Class, many skills, endless compilations.

    If something is to unbalanced just change that one skill.

    You can have predefined paths/classes if they desire, but nothing concrete.

  • SabbicatSabbicat Cambridge, ONPosts: 290Member Uncommon

    To be honest it really doesn't matter if there are classes or not. What matters is if the player is competent at playing the game with the mechanics available. Usually the loudest criers are the people who are inept, impatient or infantile.

    One thing is for sure. No matter how the game is developed there will always be some group who wants it to be different than what it is.

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