Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

What do you do...

psiicpsiic Tampa, FLPosts: 943Member Uncommon

when you are in a core test team for a game under a strict NDA, and yet the videos and press releases a game developer keep releasing are total bullshit and fabrications that are either not in the game or are totally broken in the game.

 

I feel like by not speaking out I am being complicit in online fraud. 

 

on the other hand the dev team in question come across as really nice genuine people that want to provide the game they are hyping, but sadly they just do not seem to have the actual skills or money to do so.

«1

Comments

  • flizzerflizzer Manchester, NHPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon
    I'm sure I will receive a lot of grief over my attitude about games and NDA.  PR people and developers have just outright lied and screwed gamers for so long that if I was in a position to reveal the truth of a sub par effort that was being lied about I would speak out.  Hehe, maybe we need an Edward Snowden of the gaming world. 
  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member

    just make sure to cover your own ass.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,197Member Uncommon

    You do what you're there to do or you move on. This is what separates professionals from rookies.

    It's not an easy responsibility and not everyone can handle it. You agreed to work within the guidelines of the project and you should honor that. It shows integrity. If you don't agree with how the project is run, then bow out gracefully.

    Don't get caught up in the temptation to tilt at windmills. Some people will give you praise for "being honest" but most people will never want you on a software project again. I know I would never let anyone on a project that backstabbed another project.

    Just enjoy the testing and know you contributed the best you could.

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member

    disagreeing with a developer is an entirely different matter than knowing that the developer is openly lying about their game, their skills and experience, etc.

     

    but ya, make sure there's a real moral issue here, don't make one out of your own vision of how things should be.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psiic

    when you are in a core test team for a game under a strict NDA, and yet the videos and press releases a game developer keep releasing are total bullshit and fabrications that are either not in the game or are totally broken in the game.

     

    I feel like by not speaking out I am being complicit in online fraud. 

     

    on the other hand the dev team in question come across as really nice genuine people that want to provide the game they are hyping, but sadly they just do not seem to have the actual skills or money to do so.

    If the game is junk people are going to find out. One person breaking an NDA will have very little impact compared to what gaming media and the gamers themselves will do to a junk game.

    How to post links.

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,414Member Uncommon

    If you think you can help the game with your feedback, stay and give it.   If you don't think it will do any good, say goodbye, and hold your opinion til the NDA lifts.

     

    I'm in a beta of a big project right now, and it's not going well at all imo.  I let them know what I thought, and bowed out.  Until the NDA lifts, there will be no specifics coming out from me.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    You do what you're there to do or you move on. This is what separates professionals from rookies.

    It's not an easy responsibility and not everyone can handle it. You agreed to work within the guidelines of the project and you should honor that. It shows integrity. If you don't agree with how the project is run, then bow out gracefully.

    Don't get caught up in the temptation to tilt at windmills. Some people will give you praise for "being honest" but most people will never want you on a software project again. I know I would never let anyone on a project that backstabbed another project.

    Just enjoy the testing and know you contributed the best you could.

    ^ Pretty much this. If you're not willing to lower your humanity and/or morals to the level of a complete scam artist in order to make hundreds of thousands or millions off of unsuspecting customers then you're not fit for the industry. 

    ^ Torva actually thinks it's a proper responsibility. That's quite funny, do what you feel is right. However, like someone else stated cover your bases because if you do speak out you'll probably catch a lot of bad press. If you're going to speak it out, be completely ANON. There's no reason to have a company destroy your image for their underhanded practices.

     

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member

    Wait till the NDA is lifted. They always do right around open beta, and certainly the game is released.

    As long as you warn people about the untruth before the game is released, it is fine.

  • KilrainKilrain Prineville, ORPosts: 684Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Wait till the NDA is lifted. They always do right around open beta, and certainly the game is released.

    As long as you warn people about the untruth before the game is released, it is fine.

    He's not obligated to say anything at all.

    professional web programming and design.

  • maplestonemaplestone Ottawa, ONPosts: 3,099Member

    In my humble opinion, the moment you sign an NDA, you have already made your choice.  It's a job now.  Do the job to the best of your ability, collect the paycheck, go home and sleep well.  So long as it's not your endorsement in the hype, whether the project meets the hype is the responsibility of external reviewers to judge and the person holding all the NDAs to wear.

  • SmellyNannerSmellyNanner Metairie, LAPosts: 152Member
    If this is a bout WildStar, and you decide to leak, and it is infact shit, like you're claiming... I'm going to shit a brick.
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Don't do it. If it is as bad as you say, people will find out sooner or later anyway. Also, sometimes NDA's have a clause about monetary compensation if you break it.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Don't do it. If it is as bad as you say, people will find out sooner or later anyway. Also, sometimes NDA's have a clause about monetary compensation if you break it.

    It's a very interesting line to walk really. Do you support unlawfully false advertisement of a product?

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • NagelRitterNagelRitter fewefw, CTPosts: 607Member
    Originally posted by SmellyNanner
    If this is a bout WildStar, and you decide to leak, and it is infact shit, like you're claiming... I'm going to shit a brick.

    You and me both.

    Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
    Currently playing: GW2, EVE
    Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    So the game companies word is worth nothing.... how much is your word worth ? You gave it when you agreed to that NDA.

    The NDA will drop before launch. If it really bothers you, wait till then and you're free to post with a clear conscience

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DamonVile

    So the game companies word is worth nothing.... how much is your word worth ? You gave it when you agreed to that NDA.

    The NDA will drop before launch. If it really bothers you, wait till then and you're free to post with a clear conscience

     Overall it depends what was actually agreed to within the NDA. What stuff they're allowed to publicly talk about. If the company allows employees to talk about the specific features that he's concerned about to the press/public he's technically in the clear.

     However, unless you have a copy of the NDA readily available to you. It'd be quite hard to know what you're allowed to disclose.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • VolmokVolmok Cluj-NapocaPosts: 63Member Uncommon

    Advice #1: do not do anything; you signed a NDA and you should act like a professional; Also consider the fact that breaking the NDA can make you lose a nice sum of money.

    Advice #2: if you are just a tester or developer, give them feedback about the product and do your best to inform the ones responsible about your thoughts and ideas. If you are indeed part of the hype propaganda and you have problems with the company's agenda, then your best option would be to find a new home (there are a lot of gaming companies that are hiring).

     

    As some said before, do not come out even if you think you are safe; if by any chance you will be discovered (and chance are very high that you will) then you'll have a very hard time finding a good job in this industry in the future.

  • NagelRitterNagelRitter fewefw, CTPosts: 607Member
    Yeah, I can't imagine them hiding much stuff unless they refuse to have any form of open beta.

    Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
    Currently playing: GW2, EVE
    Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  • jesadjesad Posts: 753Member Uncommon

    I would take a long, hard look at my motives for wanting to expose what I perceive to be a lie after promising through my participation that I would not.  If it's true that at the end of the day all you have is your word, I would think really long and hard about breaking it for something as simple as a video game as the repercussions of doing so, even on your psyche, may have long term implications.

    Plus, are you sure that you are not just playing some crippled up build that they are letting you see just to keep you somewhat in the dark regarding the finished product?  That happens a lot, even in-house, because developers know that a lot of testers, especially the ones who get that level spike in order to test the endgame content, tend to not come back if they are exposed to too much of the game during beta.

    So are you sure that what you are seeing is the finished product?  And even if you are do you really care that it is not up to the level of goodness that they are saying that it is?  Or are you just eager to gain notoriety by scooping the story?

    Not trying to be offensive, but its an honest question I would ask myself.

    image
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisPosts: 2,062Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nilden
    Originally posted by psiic

    when you are in a core test team for a game under a strict NDA, and yet the videos and press releases a game developer keep releasing are total bullshit and fabrications that are either not in the game or are totally broken in the game.

     

    I feel like by not speaking out I am being complicit in online fraud. 

     

    on the other hand the dev team in question come across as really nice genuine people that want to provide the game they are hyping, but sadly they just do not seem to have the actual skills or money to do so.

    If the game is junk people are going to find out. One person breaking an NDA will have very little impact compared to what gaming media and the gamers themselves will do to a junk game.

    Problem is by that time players have bought the game and the rip off devs have made millions. The other problem is the starry eyed fans who wont believe anything bad said about the game in question. Fans have made a rod for there own back and it's to late to turn back.

    Dev who have nothing to hide should not have an NDA, go back to the pre WOW days even blizzard had no NDA on WOW. You could go to the beta forums and read everything about the beta and watch vids but you couldn't post if you were not in the beta.

    Coolermaster Cosmos II Case
    Corsair AX1200W Modular PSU
    Intel Core i7 3970X OC 4.50GHz
    Asus P9X79 PRO Intel X7
    16GB (4x4GB) DDR3 PC3-1866MHz
    840 Series 250GB SSDs
    Seagate Barracuda 2TB HDDs
    EVGA SuperClocked GTX TITAN 6GB GDDR5 SLi

  • zwei2zwei2 SingaporePosts: 361Member

    Be professional, continue to testplay the game and provide feedback as it is. Do not leak out anything, and see whether all the hype generated will be available in game. Once your testing phrase is over, leave the game without making a scene.

     

    This is the type of professionalism other developers of games are looking for, especially if you want to carry on testplaying, as well to put into a resume with seeking game related jobs.

     

    In another words, be selfish. Nobody is going to thank you for providing truths about a bad game; you incur the fanbois' wrath, you are scorned by haters for testing a bad game, and you leave a black mark in testing games, which developers will dodge immediately. Let the gamers decide for themselves, and if they are dumb enough to purchase a crappy game without doing a little research, it is their fault, not yours.

    The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  • zwei2zwei2 SingaporePosts: 361Member
    Originally posted by SavageHorizon
    Originally posted by nilden
    Originally posted by psiic

    when you are in a core test team for a game under a strict NDA, and yet the videos and press releases a game developer keep releasing are total bullshit and fabrications that are either not in the game or are totally broken in the game.

     

    I feel like by not speaking out I am being complicit in online fraud. 

     

    on the other hand the dev team in question come across as really nice genuine people that want to provide the game they are hyping, but sadly they just do not seem to have the actual skills or money to do so.

    If the game is junk people are going to find out. One person breaking an NDA will have very little impact compared to what gaming media and the gamers themselves will do to a junk game.

    Problem is by that time players have bought the game and the rip off devs have made millions. The other problem is the starry eyed fans who wont believe anything bad said about the game in question. Fans have made a rod for there own back and it's to late to turn back.

    Dev who have nothing to hide should not have an NDA, go back to the pre WOW days even blizzard had no NDA on WOW. You could go to the beta forums and read everything about the beta and watch vids but you couldn't post if you were not in the beta.

    Probably WOW has no serious competition during its era. Now? No can do, with all the mmos copying each other over the slightest innovation.

    The possibility of the universe collapsing into a singularity is higher than the birth of a perfect MMORPG.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by psiic
    when you are in a core test team for a game under a strict NDA, and yet the videos and press releases a game developer keep releasing are total bullshit and fabrications that are either not in the game or are totally broken in the game.

    I feel like by not speaking out I am being complicit in online fraud. 

    on the other hand the dev team in question come across as really nice genuine people that want to provide the game they are hyping, but sadly they just do not seem to have the actual skills or money to do so.


    Have you talked with (written to) the developers? Have you asked questions within the community (in a nice way) to see what is up with what you see as false advertising?

    I have always believed that the first step in any grievance is to approach those you have the grievance with instead running someplace else and stirring up trouble :)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    As long as you were just asked to test the software and not endorse it then do your job and follow the rules.  The best you can is put your objections in writing to the boss.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • wowclonezwowclonez Scripps Ranch, CAPosts: 74Member

    Respect the companies terms in which you signed up for. I'd hardly cast judgement on a game in alpha or beta as the final. Obviously there is going to be a lot of bugs and missing features. Alpha and beta means the game is not done, why you would think it was anything other than that is beyond us.  Companies do not need threads like this as their game is a work in progress and your feedback is needed to help make the game better. This thread doesn't help or benefit anyone. When signing up for alphas and betas you need to keep in mind you are testing an unfinished product. At best you need to post your concerns on their site and not here.

«1
This discussion has been closed.