Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
Yeah. Quiet-mode is never a good sign.
If you have a cool game, you want to show stuff. Fact is, much of what they did show was just "ok" and so-so. I read several game mags playtesting it on the recent few game fairs, and all said, it is good, but nothing to write home about. They just played way too safe, I daresay just as SWTOR did. They stuck too much to the known formula, as in more of the same. Which is ok, but I guess most of us are by now overfed of the same old.
Actually I would not be surprised if we hear of a huge delay.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.
Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.
They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.
The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.
Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.
So which is it?
Have they removed public dungeons are are you giving your opinion as to why public dungeons alongside instances is bad?
There were always quests and instances and scenarios. The version I played at pax had quests and "public quests".
Granted, I did not see the same "plethora" of dungeons that say morrowind or skyrim had but since the game was announced they said how many dungeons they were going to have at release (this might have changed) and it was clear to me they weren't dotting the landscape with mines and forts and dungeons.
So, back to the public dungeons ...
Did they remove them or are they still there. If they have "gutted" them can you point me to any information indicating how they have gutted them? Before and after discussion, that type of thing?
Because it sounds to me like you are just complaining about instances.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Don't know anyone that likes instancing, what baffles me, is why the companies still insist on ramming them in their games, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, AOC, TSW.. to mention a few. Instancing dungeons/battlegrounds is fine, but instancing entire game worlds/zone into layers is just crap!
Get better hardware/software to get rid of instancing or get real.
Don't know anyone that likes instancing, what baffles me, is why the companies still insist on ramming them in their games, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, AOC, TSW.. to mention a few. Instancing dungeons/battlegrounds is fine, but instancing entire game worlds/zone into layers is just crap!
Get better hardware/software to get rid of instancing or get real.
Instancing is not about hardware/software, it's about player experience. I liked instanced Heroic quests in SWTOR (sort of mini dungeons). It was one of the rare things that Bioware got right.
Zoning on the other hand, is about hardware/software and I agree, is definitely an immersion killer.
About phasing, which will be heavily represented in TESO, I don't know what to say. It might turn out OK, because after all, ES series is about "you", so it's there to enhance single player story experience. But, it might prove tiresome and confusing in multiplayer situations.
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.
Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.
They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.
The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.
Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.
In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.
Your post makes little to no sense.
And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?
Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.
GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?
WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.
Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.
They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.
The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.
Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.
In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.
Your post makes little to no sense.
And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?
Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.
GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?
WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!
As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago.
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.
Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.
They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.
The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.
Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.
In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.
Your post makes little to no sense.
And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?
Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.
GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?
WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!
As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago.
You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.
What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.
This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.
Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.
They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.
The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.
Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.
In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.
Your post makes little to no sense.
And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?
Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.
GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?
WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!
As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago.
You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.
What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.
This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.
Now everyone gets nothing.
Well, time will tell. We don't know how many would have liked Daoc vol2 in TES skin, maybe only a few Daoc die-hards. ESO may fail for many reasons - shitty crafting and weak economy, tiny shoe box world where you cannot really explore, 100% themepark with only thing to do between new content patches is brainless dailies grind etc etc.
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.
Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.
They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.
The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.
Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.
In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.
Your post makes little to no sense.
And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?
Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.
GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?
WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!
As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago.
You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.
What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.
This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.
Now everyone gets nothing.
It can but by its nature the single players games are sandboxes. It would not have to be a full loot style game. But there are a lot of non combat options you can do in Elder scrolls which are not possible in over structured themeparks. Everyone will be specced for zerg warfare and any subtlety will be gone. Crafting and non combat or partial combat specs such as alchemy and pure thievery should be possible, but are probably not. You should be able to have your entire career as either a dungeon hopping thief or a brutal murderer or some psychotic mage throwing fireballs off his personal tower. None of this is really possible in standard themeparks and obviously not in a DAOC clone. Which is sad since single server tech would more than allow a world large enough to do that, but they made the world too small and just put people on different channels which sounds like a rush job to me.
Instead all classes will be just different forms of dps with a healing skill, crafting will be a joke and at best home ownership will be relegated to some instance in a inn room.
It is not just the lack of world pvp, its the lack of any non combat option you had in ES games as well. DAOC is nothing like elder scrolls and its "greatness" is highly exaggerated by its devotees. Those of us who actually did play DAOC and hated it as well as its clones know full well we wont like DAOC dressed up in and ES dress.
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.
Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.
They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.
The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.
Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.
In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.
Your post makes little to no sense.
And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?
Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.
GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?
WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!
As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago.
You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.
What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.
This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.
Now everyone gets nothing.
It can but by its nature the single players games are sandboxes. It would not have to be a full loot style game. But there are a lot of non combat options you can do in Elder scrolls which are not possible in over structured themeparks. Everyone will be specced for zerg warfare and any subtlety will be gone. Crafting and non combat or partial combat specs such as alchemy and pure thievery should be possible, but are probably not. You should be able to have your entire career as either a dungeon hopping thief or a brutal murderer or some psychotic mage throwing fireballs off his personal tower. None of this is really possible in standard themeparks and obviously not in a DAOC clone. Which is sad since single server tech would more than allow a world large enough to do that, but they made the world too small and just put people on different channels which sounds like a rush job to me.
Instead all classes will be just different forms of dps with a healing skill, crafting will be a joke and at best home ownership will be relegated to some instance in a inn room.
It is not just the lack of world pvp, its the lack of any non combat option you had in ES games as well. DAOC is nothing like elder scrolls and its "greatness" is highly exaggerated by its devotees. Those of us who actually did play DAOC and hated it as well as its clones know full well we wont like DAOC dressed up in and ES dress.
This game will allow more skill diversity then just about any MMO that proceeded it. Everything you just wrote, especially around skills, is assumptions based on nothing. I'm not even going to bother posting links disputing just about everything you wrote because you have already formed a factless opinion. ..but alas, you are still entitled to your opinion, but its such a shame you refuse to arm yourself with the reality of what they are creating. As far as DAOC, I never played that game so I'll leave this to others to discuss...but as a primary PVEr who likes to dabble in PVP, I love the direction they are taking..especially because they are not focused on battlegrounds or mindless griefing and instead focusing on balance. I could care less if the world of PVP is instanced as long as it is huge (which it will be see I'm hearing reports that it would take 45 minutes to run from one side to the other) and that it can house what they are targeting which is 200+ on a screen and over 1000 in one instance which is a huge achievement if they do these minimum requirements. That way our computers will be able to handle the game.
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.
Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.
They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.
The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.
Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.
In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.
Your post makes little to no sense.
And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?
Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.
GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?
WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!
As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago.
You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.
What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.
This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.
Now everyone gets nothing.
It is not just the lack of world pvp, its the lack of any non combat option you had in ES games as well. DAOC is nothing like elder scrolls and its "greatness" is highly exaggerated by its devotees. Those of us who actually did play DAOC and hated it as well as its clones know full well we wont like DAOC dressed up in and ES dress.
The elderscrolls, as a series, has been having less and less non combat activities over time, which is a shame.
As for your other moronic statement. DAoC is nothing like Elderscrolls, no kidding. The only MMO that comes close to it is Darkfall, and Zenimax would never have made Darkfall ES fusion. Never.
Those of you who played and hated DAoC are not a very large number of people. It was the second biggest MMO of its day. And DAoC never had any clones, that's part of why a bona fide DAoC clone would have been refreshing, not nauseating like EQ and WoW clones are.
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
They've been in full panic mode from the start. Nobody was even remotely enthusiastic about the initial reveal. Did you notice how almost every press release and article has been defensive, trying to make a case for the game?
And no, the features have been creeping more and more to a heavily instanced Skyrim but worse style game.
If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.
What RvR features have they removed? Can you source the public dungeon removal because I've heard nothing about that? And all games use instancing and phasing to some degree. Especially MMOs. They DAoC style has been protected by them like hell. They refused to listen to the community when they wanted a completely open world to travel to whatever part of the map they'd like from level one and PvP because they thought that it would taint their vision. But they still met us halfway by allowing us to play other areas without making alts.
Maybe you should stop shouting stuff out without any real source. And if you have a source, source it. Because I've been following this game closely and I've heard nothing of the sort.
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.
Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.
They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.
The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.
Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.
In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.
Your post makes little to no sense.
And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?
Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.
GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?
WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!
As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago.
You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.
What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.
This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.
Now everyone gets nothing.
It is not just the lack of world pvp, its the lack of any non combat option you had in ES games as well. DAOC is nothing like elder scrolls and its "greatness" is highly exaggerated by its devotees. Those of us who actually did play DAOC and hated it as well as its clones know full well we wont like DAOC dressed up in and ES dress.
The elderscrolls, as a series, has been having less and less non combat activities over time, which is a shame.
As for your other moronic statement. DAoC is nothing like Elderscrolls, no kidding. The only MMO that comes close to it is Darkfall, and Zenimax would never have made Darkfall ES fusion. Never.
Those of you who played and hated DAoC are not a very large number of people. It was the second biggest MMO of its day. And DAoC never had any clones, that's part of why a bona fide DAoC clone would have been refreshing, not nauseating like EQ and WoW clones are.
Let me get this straight- what you're saying is you want more on the MMO side / DAoC and less on the TES side? In reality the likelihood of success with this approach is WAY less.
I have news for you. ZOS showed off MMO-heavy builds of TES at some of the earlier conventions like PAX east. It turned out the fans were NOT pleased with general direction the game had gone. The game had parted too greatly from its Elder Scrolls roots. It just felt like "another MMO." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ZOHa2HKgs time 3:53. There were also other accounts from Jesse Cox for instance on the last ESO Allstars podcast who explicitly stated he disliked the more MMOified build he had tried out (which was a clear change from the alpha he had played earlier). And things like lack of first person, no compass, etc were not helping the situation.
Luckily ZOS came to its senses and more recently has tipped the scale back towards the TES side (largely due to beta feedback). And guess what happened? The response has been overwhelmingly more positive. Mr. Eurogamer who was originally unimpressed with the game decided to put it back on his radar http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-24-see-how-he-elder-scrolls-online-has-changed-for-the-better. And the footage I saw from recent beta looks ALOT better than it did before from early beta.
So I GET that you don't want to see a half-assed TES game, nobody does. But ZOS only wins by coming as close to a full-blown TES experience as possible. They don't win by making this more like another forgettable MMO, let alone a CLONE of another MMO even if it's DAoC. The events I laid out for you above proves this. 90% of people will tell you they want a REAL Elder Scrolls game. Maria Aliprando even said it herself beautifully- "It needs to be an Elder Scrolls game. And if it's not an Elder Scrolls game, then what's the point?"
And before you start rebutting with the SWTOR comparison-of-doom that's made ad nauseum, think about what ZOS has done differently to keep players interested. Their endgame appears phenomenal; PvP sounds exciting and is also DAoC-style (which should appeal to you particularly); post-launch schedule is also very impressive. If they keep playing their cards right they just might pull it off...
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.
Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.
They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.
The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.
Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.
In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.
Your post makes little to no sense.
And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?
Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.
GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?
WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!
As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago.
You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.
What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.
This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.
Now everyone gets nothing.
It is not just the lack of world pvp, its the lack of any non combat option you had in ES games as well. DAOC is nothing like elder scrolls and its "greatness" is highly exaggerated by its devotees. Those of us who actually did play DAOC and hated it as well as its clones know full well we wont like DAOC dressed up in and ES dress.
The elderscrolls, as a series, has been having less and less non combat activities over time, which is a shame.
As for your other moronic statement. DAoC is nothing like Elderscrolls, no kidding. The only MMO that comes close to it is Darkfall, and Zenimax would never have made Darkfall ES fusion. Never.
Those of you who played and hated DAoC are not a very large number of people. It was the second biggest MMO of its day. And DAoC never had any clones, that's part of why a bona fide DAoC clone would have been refreshing, not nauseating like EQ and WoW clones are.
Two points first DAOC was a third tier game at best. At its peak it was a little above 200k which was still over 100k less than what Star Wars Galaxies was getting at the time and easily less than Everquest. Even in its prime it was still fighting to compete with what was at that time a six year old Ultima online.
Secondly stop trying to validate a DAOC clone by associating Elder Scrolls with Darkfall. Elder Scrolls is a sandbox game but it doesnt have roves of goonsquad members burning down towns in Cyrodiil. Free association semantics seems to be the only defense so far as to why Elder Scrolls should embrace a niche format. The problem with DOAC cloning is the lack of open elements, Everquest Next is more like Elder Scrolls than this game is and I doubt anyone will call it a Darkfall clone.
I knew it would be difficult but I didn't expect them to fail at it. On the Other hand I love RvR games, so the game they were building didn't really hurt my feelings too much.
The issue is that we've already HAD games try the RvR thing. War tried, GW2 tired, ESO is now trying.
None of them did it right because they tried to do it with a PVE game. IT DOESN'T WORK!
We've got CU coming out in Q4 2015. We really didn't need ESO to trying to be DAOC(which I know isn't fair because ESO was there first) as well, We shall see who wins the battle however. I just don't think you can please everyone and I have a feeling NO ONE is going to be pleased with how ESO ends up.
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
What on earth gives you that impression? It's how does lack of new information indicate any change whatsoever. They're making the game. If they gave breaking news every week, there would be nothing left to reveal at launch.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
What on earth gives you that impression? It's how does lack of new information indicate any change whatsoever. They're making the game. If they gave breaking news every week, there would be nothing left to reveal at launch.
Yep, standard fan response #44 to long stretches of silence by Developers which all too frequently is a good portent of trouble behind the scenes.
It is a fair concern, this is not our first time to the rodeo and there are warning signs we've all learned to take heed of.
Doesn't mean that for sure there's anything amiss, but it does beg to question.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Lonzo So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
What on earth gives you that impression? It's how does lack of new information indicate any change whatsoever. They're making the game. If they gave breaking news every week, there would be nothing left to reveal at launch.
You know, I am just too long in this MMO business. It is the typical behaviour of a MMO company. Hyping in Alpha and then facing reality. There is something wrong! Everyone can feel it. The same feeling right before Mc Quaid busted Vanguard....
Personally, I love the direction ESO is going. They are going a different route than the WoW/Rift/etc etc where endgame progression raids are the be all end all, and will fill a good market in the MMO customer base. But they are also giving PvE players a reason to play too, and they aren't going the FFA open world pvp route which turns off casual and pve players.
I can only speak for me, and players like me, but IMO ESO will have wide (not total, but wide) appeal to a large segment of the MMO customer base. I wish them luck. Players who wont compromise and want a PvE/raid or hardcore open world pvp game should look elsewhere. I certainly turn away from other games because they aren't what *I* want, but I don't try to pretend that I represent 'everyone'. No game will ever appeal to 'everyone', or even 'most' players.
What on earth gives you that impression? It's how does lack of new information indicate any change whatsoever. They're making the game. If they gave breaking news every week, there would be nothing left to reveal at launch.
Yep, standard fan response #44 to long stretches of silence by Developers which all too frequently is a good portent of trouble behind the scenes.
It is a fair concern, this is not our first time to the rodeo and there are warning signs we've all learned to take heed of.
Doesn't mean that for sure there's anything amiss, but it does beg to question.
There is a ton of information released on this game. I have no idea what you are talking about. I think tney *might* be spending more time in development to deal with some of the graphics/movement issues that were raised, but other than that, they seem to be moving right along. Release is about 6 months away, do you really expect all the information to be made public now? No game does that. In part because its still under development and could change during playtesting, and once they announce something, some players act like its etched in granite and if it changes they call the developers 'liars'. So I don't blame game companies for releasing info slowly and when its pretty solid and unlikely to change a lot.
Originally posted by LonzoSo quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
What on earth gives you that impression? It's how does lack of new information indicate any change whatsoever. They're making the game. If they gave breaking news every week, there would be nothing left to reveal at launch.
You know, I am just too long in this MMO business. It is the typical behaviour of a MMO company. Hyping in Alpha and then facing reality. There is something wrong! Everyone can feel it. The same feeling right before Mc Quaid busted Vanguard....
uhh no, that is entirely inaccurate. people knew there was something wrong with vanguard because there were leaks all over the place, people were talking about beta and the beta forums, you are not seeing a lot of leaked negativity about ESP beta like you did during vanguard beta.
did you ever read the FOH forums back when it was in development? not only that but that was a bit of an indie project (especially compared to ESO) and had nowhere near the funding that this game has.
not to mention the fact that the manager was rumored to had hardly been there during development, it was just a cluster fuck all the way around.
plus zenimax has a very successful IP to worry about. even if there was "something wrong" i would assume it will be fixed before this game launches.
Originally posted by LonzoSo quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.
What on earth gives you that impression? It's how does lack of new information indicate any change whatsoever. They're making the game. If they gave breaking news every week, there would be nothing left to reveal at launch.
You know, I am just too long in this MMO business. It is the typical behaviour of a MMO company. Hyping in Alpha and then facing reality. There is something wrong! Everyone can feel it. The same feeling right before Mc Quaid busted Vanguard....
uhh no, that is entirely inaccurate. people knew there was something wrong with vanguard because there were leaks all over the place, people were talking about beta and the beta forums, you are not seeing a lot of leaked negativity about ESP beta like you did during vanguard beta.
did you ever read the FOH forums back when it was in development? not only that but that was a bit of an indie project (especially compared to ESO) and had nowhere near the funding that this game has.
not to mention the fact that the manager was rumored to had hardly been there during development, it was just a cluster fuck all the way around.
plus zenimax has a very successful IP to worry about. even if there was "something wrong" i would assume it will be fixed before this game launches.
I don't know how you can try and claim there hasn't been negativity including negativity from leaks. Infact, not only have I heard negative things from beta testers since it started but Zenimax themselves admits the negativity coming from their beta programs and cite it as a reason for introducing some changes and planning others. Now I cannot remember if the level of negativity leaked and otherwise apparent is appropriate to compare to vanguard but it's certainly significant enough to recognize thus hard to deny.
As for the cost comparisons ofcourse ESO is going to cost a lot more but the reason that it's a given is because that's the nature of games as time goes on, especially MMOs. Again I don't necessarily want to compare it to Vanguard but it is obvious enough that Vanguard cannot be considered an indie project.
Now Vanguard had problems and ESO may not be a worthy rival in that regard but lets not pretend ESO hasn't had apparent negativity from it's beta program and lets not pretend that Zenimax can throw so much money at the game that they are guaranteed success.
Comments
Just waiting to go f2p. Until then, RIFT, TERA, PoE, Hearthstone, EQ Next and ArcheAge (when HS, EQ and AA launch ofc) will keep me busy.
And btw all are f2p.
So good luck TESO with your p2p model. I ll wait for you to be f2p too
Yeah. Quiet-mode is never a good sign.
If you have a cool game, you want to show stuff. Fact is, much of what they did show was just "ok" and so-so. I read several game mags playtesting it on the recent few game fairs, and all said, it is good, but nothing to write home about. They just played way too safe, I daresay just as SWTOR did. They stuck too much to the known formula, as in more of the same. Which is ok, but I guess most of us are by now overfed of the same old.
Actually I would not be surprised if we hear of a huge delay.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
So which is it?
Have they removed public dungeons are are you giving your opinion as to why public dungeons alongside instances is bad?
There were always quests and instances and scenarios. The version I played at pax had quests and "public quests".
Granted, I did not see the same "plethora" of dungeons that say morrowind or skyrim had but since the game was announced they said how many dungeons they were going to have at release (this might have changed) and it was clear to me they weren't dotting the landscape with mines and forts and dungeons.
So, back to the public dungeons ...
Did they remove them or are they still there. If they have "gutted" them can you point me to any information indicating how they have gutted them? Before and after discussion, that type of thing?
Because it sounds to me like you are just complaining about instances.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Don't know anyone that likes instancing, what baffles me, is why the companies still insist on ramming them in their games, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, AOC, TSW.. to mention a few. Instancing dungeons/battlegrounds is fine, but instancing entire game worlds/zone into layers is just crap!
Get better hardware/software to get rid of instancing or get real.
Instancing is not about hardware/software, it's about player experience. I liked instanced Heroic quests in SWTOR (sort of mini dungeons). It was one of the rare things that Bioware got right.
Zoning on the other hand, is about hardware/software and I agree, is definitely an immersion killer.
About phasing, which will be heavily represented in TESO, I don't know what to say. It might turn out OK, because after all, ES series is about "you", so it's there to enhance single player story experience. But, it might prove tiresome and confusing in multiplayer situations.
GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?
WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!
As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago.
You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.
What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.
This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.
Now everyone gets nothing.
Well, time will tell. We don't know how many would have liked Daoc vol2 in TES skin, maybe only a few Daoc die-hards. ESO may fail for many reasons - shitty crafting and weak economy, tiny shoe box world where you cannot really explore, 100% themepark with only thing to do between new content patches is brainless dailies grind etc etc.
It can but by its nature the single players games are sandboxes. It would not have to be a full loot style game. But there are a lot of non combat options you can do in Elder scrolls which are not possible in over structured themeparks. Everyone will be specced for zerg warfare and any subtlety will be gone. Crafting and non combat or partial combat specs such as alchemy and pure thievery should be possible, but are probably not. You should be able to have your entire career as either a dungeon hopping thief or a brutal murderer or some psychotic mage throwing fireballs off his personal tower. None of this is really possible in standard themeparks and obviously not in a DAOC clone. Which is sad since single server tech would more than allow a world large enough to do that, but they made the world too small and just put people on different channels which sounds like a rush job to me.
Instead all classes will be just different forms of dps with a healing skill, crafting will be a joke and at best home ownership will be relegated to some instance in a inn room.
It is not just the lack of world pvp, its the lack of any non combat option you had in ES games as well. DAOC is nothing like elder scrolls and its "greatness" is highly exaggerated by its devotees. Those of us who actually did play DAOC and hated it as well as its clones know full well we wont like DAOC dressed up in and ES dress.
This game will allow more skill diversity then just about any MMO that proceeded it. Everything you just wrote, especially around skills, is assumptions based on nothing. I'm not even going to bother posting links disputing just about everything you wrote because you have already formed a factless opinion. ..but alas, you are still entitled to your opinion, but its such a shame you refuse to arm yourself with the reality of what they are creating. As far as DAOC, I never played that game so I'll leave this to others to discuss...but as a primary PVEr who likes to dabble in PVP, I love the direction they are taking..especially because they are not focused on battlegrounds or mindless griefing and instead focusing on balance. I could care less if the world of PVP is instanced as long as it is huge (which it will be see I'm hearing reports that it would take 45 minutes to run from one side to the other) and that it can house what they are targeting which is 200+ on a screen and over 1000 in one instance which is a huge achievement if they do these minimum requirements. That way our computers will be able to handle the game.
There Is Always Hope!
The elderscrolls, as a series, has been having less and less non combat activities over time, which is a shame.
As for your other moronic statement. DAoC is nothing like Elderscrolls, no kidding. The only MMO that comes close to it is Darkfall, and Zenimax would never have made Darkfall ES fusion. Never.
Those of you who played and hated DAoC are not a very large number of people. It was the second biggest MMO of its day. And DAoC never had any clones, that's part of why a bona fide DAoC clone would have been refreshing, not nauseating like EQ and WoW clones are.
What RvR features have they removed? Can you source the public dungeon removal because I've heard nothing about that? And all games use instancing and phasing to some degree. Especially MMOs. They DAoC style has been protected by them like hell. They refused to listen to the community when they wanted a completely open world to travel to whatever part of the map they'd like from level one and PvP because they thought that it would taint their vision. But they still met us halfway by allowing us to play other areas without making alts.
Maybe you should stop shouting stuff out without any real source. And if you have a source, source it. Because I've been following this game closely and I've heard nothing of the sort.
Let me get this straight- what you're saying is you want more on the MMO side / DAoC and less on the TES side? In reality the likelihood of success with this approach is WAY less.
I have news for you. ZOS showed off MMO-heavy builds of TES at some of the earlier conventions like PAX east. It turned out the fans were NOT pleased with general direction the game had gone. The game had parted too greatly from its Elder Scrolls roots. It just felt like "another MMO." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ZOHa2HKgs time 3:53. There were also other accounts from Jesse Cox for instance on the last ESO Allstars podcast who explicitly stated he disliked the more MMOified build he had tried out (which was a clear change from the alpha he had played earlier). And things like lack of first person, no compass, etc were not helping the situation.
Luckily ZOS came to its senses and more recently has tipped the scale back towards the TES side (largely due to beta feedback). And guess what happened? The response has been overwhelmingly more positive. Mr. Eurogamer who was originally unimpressed with the game decided to put it back on his radar http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-24-see-how-he-elder-scrolls-online-has-changed-for-the-better. And the footage I saw from recent beta looks ALOT better than it did before from early beta.
So I GET that you don't want to see a half-assed TES game, nobody does. But ZOS only wins by coming as close to a full-blown TES experience as possible. They don't win by making this more like another forgettable MMO, let alone a CLONE of another MMO even if it's DAoC. The events I laid out for you above proves this. 90% of people will tell you they want a REAL Elder Scrolls game. Maria Aliprando even said it herself beautifully- "It needs to be an Elder Scrolls game. And if it's not an Elder Scrolls game, then what's the point?"
And before you start rebutting with the SWTOR comparison-of-doom that's made ad nauseum, think about what ZOS has done differently to keep players interested. Their endgame appears phenomenal; PvP sounds exciting and is also DAoC-style (which should appeal to you particularly); post-launch schedule is also very impressive. If they keep playing their cards right they just might pull it off...
Edit: The post above me made me feel the need to again call you out on the ABSOLUTE BALONEY statements that RvR features and public dungeons were removed. Want to hear about public dungeons? Here ya go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z-_YSrJkVI time 2:15. Or how about this: http://questgamingnetwork.mymiddleearth.com/2013/09/05/elder-scrolls-otr-episode-81-the-paul-sage/ time 16:54. Yeah that's right, I've ACTUALLY been following the game closely. Have you? Sure as heck seems like you're not.
Two points first DAOC was a third tier game at best. At its peak it was a little above 200k which was still over 100k less than what Star Wars Galaxies was getting at the time and easily less than Everquest. Even in its prime it was still fighting to compete with what was at that time a six year old Ultima online.
Secondly stop trying to validate a DAOC clone by associating Elder Scrolls with Darkfall. Elder Scrolls is a sandbox game but it doesnt have roves of goonsquad members burning down towns in Cyrodiil. Free association semantics seems to be the only defense so far as to why Elder Scrolls should embrace a niche format. The problem with DOAC cloning is the lack of open elements, Everquest Next is more like Elder Scrolls than this game is and I doubt anyone will call it a Darkfall clone.
I wanted a Elder Scrolls online.
I knew it would be difficult but I didn't expect them to fail at it. On the Other hand I love RvR games, so the game they were building didn't really hurt my feelings too much.
The issue is that we've already HAD games try the RvR thing. War tried, GW2 tired, ESO is now trying.
None of them did it right because they tried to do it with a PVE game. IT DOESN'T WORK!
We've got CU coming out in Q4 2015. We really didn't need ESO to trying to be DAOC(which I know isn't fair because ESO was there first) as well, We shall see who wins the battle however. I just don't think you can please everyone and I have a feeling NO ONE is going to be pleased with how ESO ends up.
What on earth gives you that impression? It's how does lack of new information indicate any change whatsoever. They're making the game. If they gave breaking news every week, there would be nothing left to reveal at launch.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
Yep, standard fan response #44 to long stretches of silence by Developers which all too frequently is a good portent of trouble behind the scenes.
It is a fair concern, this is not our first time to the rodeo and there are warning signs we've all learned to take heed of.
Doesn't mean that for sure there's anything amiss, but it does beg to question.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
skyrim would be better
but i think that are much underated why are losing to black desert, the demon are abusing
You know, I am just too long in this MMO business. It is the typical behaviour of a MMO company. Hyping in Alpha and then facing reality. There is something wrong! Everyone can feel it. The same feeling right before Mc Quaid busted Vanguard....
[mod edit]
Personally, I love the direction ESO is going. They are going a different route than the WoW/Rift/etc etc where endgame progression raids are the be all end all, and will fill a good market in the MMO customer base. But they are also giving PvE players a reason to play too, and they aren't going the FFA open world pvp route which turns off casual and pve players.
I can only speak for me, and players like me, but IMO ESO will have wide (not total, but wide) appeal to a large segment of the MMO customer base. I wish them luck. Players who wont compromise and want a PvE/raid or hardcore open world pvp game should look elsewhere. I certainly turn away from other games because they aren't what *I* want, but I don't try to pretend that I represent 'everyone'. No game will ever appeal to 'everyone', or even 'most' players.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
There is a ton of information released on this game. I have no idea what you are talking about. I think tney *might* be spending more time in development to deal with some of the graphics/movement issues that were raised, but other than that, they seem to be moving right along. Release is about 6 months away, do you really expect all the information to be made public now? No game does that. In part because its still under development and could change during playtesting, and once they announce something, some players act like its etched in granite and if it changes they call the developers 'liars'. So I don't blame game companies for releasing info slowly and when its pretty solid and unlikely to change a lot.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
"Everything is mine and your woman too"
uhh no, that is entirely inaccurate. people knew there was something wrong with vanguard because there were leaks all over the place, people were talking about beta and the beta forums, you are not seeing a lot of leaked negativity about ESP beta like you did during vanguard beta.
did you ever read the FOH forums back when it was in development? not only that but that was a bit of an indie project (especially compared to ESO) and had nowhere near the funding that this game has.
not to mention the fact that the manager was rumored to had hardly been there during development, it was just a cluster fuck all the way around.
plus zenimax has a very successful IP to worry about. even if there was "something wrong" i would assume it will be fixed before this game launches.
I don't know how you can try and claim there hasn't been negativity including negativity from leaks. Infact, not only have I heard negative things from beta testers since it started but Zenimax themselves admits the negativity coming from their beta programs and cite it as a reason for introducing some changes and planning others. Now I cannot remember if the level of negativity leaked and otherwise apparent is appropriate to compare to vanguard but it's certainly significant enough to recognize thus hard to deny.
As for the cost comparisons ofcourse ESO is going to cost a lot more but the reason that it's a given is because that's the nature of games as time goes on, especially MMOs. Again I don't necessarily want to compare it to Vanguard but it is obvious enough that Vanguard cannot be considered an indie project.
Now Vanguard had problems and ESO may not be a worthy rival in that regard but lets not pretend ESO hasn't had apparent negativity from it's beta program and lets not pretend that Zenimax can throw so much money at the game that they are guaranteed success.