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What about TESO?

24

Comments

  • didjeramadidjerama MirPosts: 201Member
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    Quite contrary, i think they are in panic mode and try to make it more TES experience than "MMO" experieence due to every new AAA MMO lost players faster than one before and had to go F2P faster than one before.

    "Old school" is dead and will remain dead for any MMO that aims at more than a few thousand players.

  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by didjerama
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    Quite contrary, i think they are in panic mode and try to make it more TES experience than "MMO" experieence due to every new AAA MMO lost players faster than one before and had to go F2P faster than one before.

    "Old school" is dead and will remain dead for any MMO that aims at more than a few thousand players.

    uhm "old school" mmo's stopped being made 10 yrs ago. it's kinda why they are called old school.  Taken with the rest of your post I have no idea what your talking about

    image
  • AroukosAroukos AthensPosts: 571Member

    Just waiting to go f2p. Until then, RIFT, TERA, PoE, Hearthstone, EQ Next and ArcheAge (when HS, EQ and AA  launch ofc) will keep me busy.

    And btw all are f2p.

    So good luck TESO with your p2p model. I ll wait for you to be f2p too :)

  • ElikalElikal ValhallaPosts: 7,906Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    Yeah. Quiet-mode is never a good sign.

    If you have a cool game, you want to show stuff. Fact is, much of what they did show was just "ok" and so-so. I read several game mags playtesting it on the recent few game fairs, and all said, it is good, but nothing to write home about. They just played way too safe, I daresay just as SWTOR did. They stuck too much to the known formula, as in more of the same. Which is ok, but I guess most of us are by now overfed of the same old.

    Actually I would not be surprised if we hear of a huge delay.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,461Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.

    Which necessary RvR features did they remove?

    And as of this article there are public dungeons:

    https://www.tentonhammer.com/elder-scrolls-online/previews/return-of-public-dungeons

     

    Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.

    They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.

    The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.

    Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.

    So which is it?

    Have they removed public dungeons are are you giving your opinion as to why public dungeons alongside instances is bad?

    There were always quests and instances and scenarios. The version I played at pax had quests and "public quests".

    Granted, I did not see the same "plethora" of dungeons that say morrowind or skyrim had but since the game was announced they said how many dungeons they were going to have at release (this might have changed) and it was clear to me they weren't dotting the landscape with mines and forts and dungeons.

    So, back to the public dungeons ...

    Did they remove them or are they still there. If they have "gutted" them can you point me to any information indicating how they have gutted them? Before and after discussion, that type of thing?

    Because it sounds to me like you are just complaining about instances.

  • FusionFusion VaasaPosts: 1,391Member Uncommon

    Don't know anyone that likes instancing, what baffles me, is why the companies still insist on ramming them in their games, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, AOC, TSW.. to mention a few. Instancing dungeons/battlegrounds is fine, but instancing entire game worlds/zone into layers is just crap!

    Get better hardware/software to get rid of instancing or get real.

    Currently playing: -

    Waiting for: Class4.

    Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  • DeniZgDeniZg ZagrebPosts: 669Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Fusion

    Don't know anyone that likes instancing, what baffles me, is why the companies still insist on ramming them in their games, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, AOC, TSW.. to mention a few. Instancing dungeons/battlegrounds is fine, but instancing entire game worlds/zone into layers is just crap!

    Get better hardware/software to get rid of instancing or get real.

    Instancing is not about hardware/software, it's about player experience. I liked instanced Heroic quests in SWTOR (sort of mini dungeons). It was one of the rare things that Bioware got right.

    Zoning on the other hand, is about hardware/software and I agree, is definitely an immersion killer.

    About phasing, which will be heavily represented in TESO, I don't know what to say. It might turn out OK, because after all, ES series is about "you", so it's there to enhance single player story experience. But, it might prove tiresome and confusing in multiplayer situations.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.

    Which necessary RvR features did they remove?

    And as of this article there are public dungeons:

    https://www.tentonhammer.com/elder-scrolls-online/previews/return-of-public-dungeons

     

    Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.

    They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.

    The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.

    Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.

    In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.

    Your post makes little to no sense.

     

    And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?

    Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.

    GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?

    WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.

    Which necessary RvR features did they remove?

    And as of this article there are public dungeons:

    https://www.tentonhammer.com/elder-scrolls-online/previews/return-of-public-dungeons

     

    Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.

    They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.

    The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.

    Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.

    In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.

    Your post makes little to no sense.

     

    And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?

    Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.

    GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?

    WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!

    As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago. 

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.

    Which necessary RvR features did they remove?

    And as of this article there are public dungeons:

    https://www.tentonhammer.com/elder-scrolls-online/previews/return-of-public-dungeons

     

    Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.

    They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.

    The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.

    Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.

    In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.

    Your post makes little to no sense.

     

    And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?

    Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.

    GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?

    WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!

    As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago. 

    You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.

    What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.

    This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.

    Now everyone gets nothing.

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.

    Which necessary RvR features did they remove?

    And as of this article there are public dungeons:

    https://www.tentonhammer.com/elder-scrolls-online/previews/return-of-public-dungeons

     

    Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.

    They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.

    The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.

    Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.

    In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.

    Your post makes little to no sense.

     

    And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?

    Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.

    GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?

    WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!

    As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago. 

    You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.

    What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.

    This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.

    Now everyone gets nothing.

    Well, time will tell. We don't know how many would have liked Daoc vol2 in TES skin, maybe only a few Daoc die-hards. ESO may fail for many reasons - shitty crafting and weak economy, tiny shoe box world where you cannot really explore, 100% themepark with only thing to do between new content patches is brainless dailies grind etc etc.

     

     

  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Ashville, NCPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.

    Which necessary RvR features did they remove?

    And as of this article there are public dungeons:

    https://www.tentonhammer.com/elder-scrolls-online/previews/return-of-public-dungeons

     

    Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.

    They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.

    The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.

    Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.

    In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.

    Your post makes little to no sense.

     

    And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?

    Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.

    GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?

    WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!

    As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago. 

    You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.

    What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.

    This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.

    Now everyone gets nothing.

    It can but by its nature the single players games are sandboxes. It would not have to be a full loot style game. But there are a lot of non combat options you can do in Elder scrolls which are not possible in over structured themeparks. Everyone will be specced for zerg warfare and any subtlety will be gone.  Crafting and non combat or partial combat specs such as alchemy and pure thievery should be possible, but are probably not. You should be able to have your entire career as either a dungeon hopping thief or a brutal murderer or some psychotic mage throwing fireballs off his personal tower. None of this is really possible in standard themeparks and obviously not in a DAOC clone. Which is sad since single server tech would more than allow a world large enough to do that, but they made the world too small and just put people on different channels which sounds like a rush job to me. 

    Instead all classes will be just different forms of dps with a healing skill, crafting will be a joke and at best home ownership will be relegated to some instance in a inn room. 

    It is not just the lack of world pvp, its the lack of any non combat option you had in ES games as well. DAOC is nothing like elder scrolls and its "greatness" is highly exaggerated by its devotees. Those of us who actually did play DAOC and hated it as well as its clones know full well we wont like DAOC dressed up in and ES dress. 

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.

    Which necessary RvR features did they remove?

    And as of this article there are public dungeons:

    https://www.tentonhammer.com/elder-scrolls-online/previews/return-of-public-dungeons

     

    Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.

    They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.

    The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.

    Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.

    In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.

    Your post makes little to no sense.

     

    And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?

    Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.

    GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?

    WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!

    As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago. 

    You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.

    What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.

    This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.

    Now everyone gets nothing.

    It can but by its nature the single players games are sandboxes. It would not have to be a full loot style game. But there are a lot of non combat options you can do in Elder scrolls which are not possible in over structured themeparks. Everyone will be specced for zerg warfare and any subtlety will be gone.  Crafting and non combat or partial combat specs such as alchemy and pure thievery should be possible, but are probably not. You should be able to have your entire career as either a dungeon hopping thief or a brutal murderer or some psychotic mage throwing fireballs off his personal tower. None of this is really possible in standard themeparks and obviously not in a DAOC clone. Which is sad since single server tech would more than allow a world large enough to do that, but they made the world too small and just put people on different channels which sounds like a rush job to me. 

    Instead all classes will be just different forms of dps with a healing skill, crafting will be a joke and at best home ownership will be relegated to some instance in a inn room. 

    It is not just the lack of world pvp, its the lack of any non combat option you had in ES games as well. DAOC is nothing like elder scrolls and its "greatness" is highly exaggerated by its devotees. Those of us who actually did play DAOC and hated it as well as its clones know full well we wont like DAOC dressed up in and ES dress. 

    This game will allow more skill diversity then just about any MMO that proceeded it. Everything you just wrote, especially around skills, is assumptions based on nothing.  I'm not even going to bother posting links disputing just about everything you wrote because you have already formed a factless opinion.  ..but alas, you are still entitled to your opinion, but its such a shame you refuse to arm yourself with the reality of what they are creating. As far as DAOC, I never played that game so I'll leave this to others to discuss...but as a primary PVEr who likes to dabble in PVP, I love the direction they are taking..especially because they are not focused on battlegrounds or mindless griefing and instead focusing on balance. I could care less if the world of PVP is instanced as long as it is huge (which it will be see I'm hearing reports that it would take 45 minutes to run from one side to the other) and that it can house what they are targeting which is 200+ on a screen and over 1000 in one instance which is a huge achievement if they do these minimum requirements. That way our computers will be able to handle the game.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.

    Which necessary RvR features did they remove?

    And as of this article there are public dungeons:

    https://www.tentonhammer.com/elder-scrolls-online/previews/return-of-public-dungeons

     

    Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.

    They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.

    The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.

    Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.

    In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.

    Your post makes little to no sense.

     

    And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?

    Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.

    GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?

    WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!

    As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago. 

    You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.

    What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.

    This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.

    Now everyone gets nothing.

    It is not just the lack of world pvp, its the lack of any non combat option you had in ES games as well. DAOC is nothing like elder scrolls and its "greatness" is highly exaggerated by its devotees. Those of us who actually did play DAOC and hated it as well as its clones know full well we wont like DAOC dressed up in and ES dress. 

    The elderscrolls, as a series, has been having less and less non combat activities over time, which is a shame.

    As for your other moronic statement. DAoC is nothing like Elderscrolls, no kidding. The only MMO that comes close to it is Darkfall, and Zenimax would never have made Darkfall ES fusion. Never.

    Those of you who played and hated DAoC are not a very large number of people. It was the second biggest MMO of its day. And DAoC never had any clones, that's part of why a bona fide DAoC clone would have been refreshing, not nauseating like EQ and WoW clones are.

  • asrlohzasrlohz UddevallaPosts: 645Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    They've been in full panic mode from the start. Nobody was even remotely enthusiastic about the initial reveal. Did you notice how almost every press release and article has been defensive, trying to make a case for the game?

    And no, the features have been creeping more and more to a heavily instanced Skyrim but worse style game.

    If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.

    What RvR features have they removed? Can you source the public dungeon removal because I've heard nothing about that? And all games use instancing and phasing to some degree. Especially MMOs. They DAoC style has been protected by them like hell. They refused to listen to the community when they wanted a completely open world to travel to whatever part of the map they'd like from level one and PvP because they thought that it would taint their vision. But they still met us halfway by allowing us to play other areas without making alts.

     

    Maybe you should stop shouting stuff out without any real source. And if you have a source, source it. Because I've been following this game closely and I've heard nothing of the sort.

    image
  • superconductingsuperconducting Rochester, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.

    Which necessary RvR features did they remove?

    And as of this article there are public dungeons:

    https://www.tentonhammer.com/elder-scrolls-online/previews/return-of-public-dungeons

     

    Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.

    They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.

    The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.

    Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.

    In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.

    Your post makes little to no sense.

     

    And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?

    Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.

    GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?

    WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!

    As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago. 

    You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.

    What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.

    This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.

    Now everyone gets nothing.

    It is not just the lack of world pvp, its the lack of any non combat option you had in ES games as well. DAOC is nothing like elder scrolls and its "greatness" is highly exaggerated by its devotees. Those of us who actually did play DAOC and hated it as well as its clones know full well we wont like DAOC dressed up in and ES dress. 

    The elderscrolls, as a series, has been having less and less non combat activities over time, which is a shame.

    As for your other moronic statement. DAoC is nothing like Elderscrolls, no kidding. The only MMO that comes close to it is Darkfall, and Zenimax would never have made Darkfall ES fusion. Never.

    Those of you who played and hated DAoC are not a very large number of people. It was the second biggest MMO of its day. And DAoC never had any clones, that's part of why a bona fide DAoC clone would have been refreshing, not nauseating like EQ and WoW clones are.

    Let me get this straight- what you're saying is you want more on the MMO side / DAoC and less on the TES side? In reality the likelihood of success with this approach is WAY less.

    I have news for you. ZOS showed off MMO-heavy builds of TES at some of the earlier conventions like PAX east. It turned out the fans were NOT pleased with general direction the game had gone. The game had parted too greatly from its Elder Scrolls roots. It just felt like "another MMO." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7ZOHa2HKgs time 3:53. There were also other accounts from Jesse Cox for instance on the last ESO Allstars podcast who explicitly stated he disliked the more MMOified build he had tried out (which was a clear change from the alpha he had played earlier). And things like lack of first person, no compass, etc were not helping the situation.

    Luckily ZOS came to its senses and more recently has tipped the scale back towards the TES side (largely due to beta feedback). And guess what happened? The response has been overwhelmingly more positive. Mr. Eurogamer who was originally unimpressed with the game decided to put it back on his radar http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-09-24-see-how-he-elder-scrolls-online-has-changed-for-the-better. And the footage I saw from recent beta looks ALOT better than it did before from early beta.

    So I GET that you don't want to see a half-assed TES game, nobody does. But ZOS only wins by coming as close to a full-blown TES experience as possible. They don't win by making this more like another forgettable MMO, let alone a CLONE of another MMO even if it's DAoC. The events I laid out for you above proves this. 90% of people will tell you they want a REAL Elder Scrolls game. Maria Aliprando even said it herself beautifully- "It needs to be an Elder Scrolls game. And if it's not an Elder Scrolls game, then what's the point?"

    And before you start rebutting with the SWTOR comparison-of-doom that's made ad nauseum, think about what ZOS has done differently to keep players interested. Their endgame appears phenomenal; PvP sounds exciting and is also DAoC-style (which should appeal to you particularly); post-launch schedule is also very impressive. If they keep playing their cards right they just might pull it off...

     

    Edit: The post above me made me feel the need to again call you out on the ABSOLUTE BALONEY statements that RvR features and public dungeons were removed. Want to hear about public dungeons? Here ya go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z-_YSrJkVI time 2:15. Or how about this: http://questgamingnetwork.mymiddleearth.com/2013/09/05/elder-scrolls-otr-episode-81-the-paul-sage/ time 16:54. Yeah that's right, I've ACTUALLY been following the game closely. Have you? Sure as heck seems like you're not.

    image
  • SleepyfishSleepyfish Ashville, NCPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sleepyfish
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Wiha
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    If they had kept it oldschool, DAoC style, which was the original vision before publishers shat all over it and got them to remove necessary RvR features and remove public dungeons and add instancing and phasing.... it might actually be worth playing.

    Which necessary RvR features did they remove?

    And as of this article there are public dungeons:

    https://www.tentonhammer.com/elder-scrolls-online/previews/return-of-public-dungeons

     

    Can you point to a more recent article saying they are removing them? That above article is only a few months old.

    They've gutted them. The pressence of public dungeons means nothing if the game is phased and instanced, which it is.

    The focus has been shifted towards quests and instances and scenarios, as seen by how little anyone mentions public dungeons since the initial release.

    Not only that, but public dungeons only really work when they're the only dungeons. This stinks of adding in instances to please some Zenimax CEO.

    In most of your posts you blame mystic CEOs for all the problems. Maybe you should just admit that you are getting nowhere instead of posting the same complaint (yet to be defined as it's very vague) over and over again.

    Your post makes little to no sense.

     

    And yes, publishers are the common denominator, what else would make a seasoned veteran MMO designer make awful decisions?

    Their first awful decision was to make Daoc clone in TES skin which caused an outrage in TES community.

    GASP, trying to clone one of the most critically acclaimed MMOs, which no longer exists? Trying to make an MMO and sell it to MMO gamers? Trying to use good game design and a new IP to make something exciting and unique?

    WHAT AN AWFUL HORRIBLE MISTAKE! I'M SO GLAD THEY SOBERED UP AND TRIED TO MAKE A HALF ASSED SINGLEPLAYER GAME FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE MMOS TO BEGIN WITH! THAT WORKED GREAT FOR SWTOR, RIGHT?!

    As I've said my motto is less Daoc and more Elder Scrolls. I'm glad that they started to add TES to this game instead of bragging about their 3 faction war game like they did a year ago. 

    You people will understand soon enough. There is no way to translate the Elderscrolls experience to an MMO. What you'll get is a watered down half assed singleplayer experience that is hamstrung by its requirement to be online with other people. It'll have Skyrim's UI and some of its art (but look way worse) but it won't be Elderscrolls. It could never be.

    What this will do is create a game that Elderscrolls players won't like, and MMO players won't like. A la, SWTOR, but to a march worse degree.

    This game, as of now, by stripping down the DAoC portions, offers nothing new or unique to the genre. A DAoC style MMO with Elderscrolls settings, lore, and look would have been amazing for MMO games.

    Now everyone gets nothing.

    It is not just the lack of world pvp, its the lack of any non combat option you had in ES games as well. DAOC is nothing like elder scrolls and its "greatness" is highly exaggerated by its devotees. Those of us who actually did play DAOC and hated it as well as its clones know full well we wont like DAOC dressed up in and ES dress. 

    The elderscrolls, as a series, has been having less and less non combat activities over time, which is a shame.

    As for your other moronic statement. DAoC is nothing like Elderscrolls, no kidding. The only MMO that comes close to it is Darkfall, and Zenimax would never have made Darkfall ES fusion. Never.

    Those of you who played and hated DAoC are not a very large number of people. It was the second biggest MMO of its day. And DAoC never had any clones, that's part of why a bona fide DAoC clone would have been refreshing, not nauseating like EQ and WoW clones are.

    Two points first DAOC was a third tier game at best. At its peak it was a little above 200k which was still over 100k less than what  Star Wars Galaxies was getting at the time and easily less than Everquest.  Even in its prime it was still fighting to compete with what was  at that time a six year old Ultima online. 

    Secondly stop trying to validate a DAOC clone by associating Elder Scrolls with Darkfall. Elder Scrolls is a sandbox game but it doesnt have roves of goonsquad members burning down towns in Cyrodiil. Free association semantics seems to be the only defense so far as to why Elder Scrolls should embrace a niche format. The problem with DOAC cloning is the lack of open elements, Everquest Next is more like Elder Scrolls than this game is and I doubt anyone will call it a Darkfall clone. 

  • FlyinDutchman87FlyinDutchman87 London MIlls, ILPosts: 247Member Uncommon

    I wanted a Elder Scrolls online.

     

    I knew it would be difficult but I didn't expect them to fail at it.  On the Other hand I love RvR games, so the game they were building didn't really hurt my feelings too much.

     

    The issue is that we've already HAD games try the RvR thing. War tried, GW2 tired, ESO is now trying.

     

    None of them did it right because they tried to do it with a PVE game. IT DOESN'T WORK!

     

    We've got CU coming out in Q4 2015. We really didn't need ESO to trying to be DAOC(which I know isn't fair because ESO was there first) as well, We shall see who wins the battle however. I just don't think you can please everyone and I have a feeling NO ONE is going to be pleased with how ESO ends up. 

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    What on earth gives you that impression? It's how does lack of new information indicate any change whatsoever. They're making the game. If they gave breaking news every week, there would be nothing left to reveal at launch.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,008Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    What on earth gives you that impression? It's how does lack of new information indicate any change whatsoever. They're making the game. If they gave breaking news every week, there would be nothing left to reveal at launch.

    Yep, standard fan response #44 to long stretches of silence by Developers which all too frequently is a good portent of trouble behind the scenes.

    It is a fair concern, this is not our first time to the rodeo and there are warning signs we've all learned to take heed of.

    Doesn't mean that for sure there's anything amiss, but it does beg to question.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • danielwarsongdanielwarsong zergPosts: 5Member

    skyrim would be better 

     

    but i think that are much underated why are losing to black desert, the demon are abusing

  • LonzoLonzo GoettingenPosts: 235Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Lonzo
    So quiet.... I think this is a bad sign. I bet my .... that they bet on the wrong horse and are now in panic and try to fix the game and push it more to the more oldschool direction. Now that every company can see that F2P and casual gaming is not the key to success.

    What on earth gives you that impression? It's how does lack of new information indicate any change whatsoever. They're making the game. If they gave breaking news every week, there would be nothing left to reveal at launch.

    You know, I am  just too long in this MMO business. It is the typical behaviour of a MMO company. Hyping in Alpha and then facing reality. There is something wrong! Everyone can feel it. The same feeling right before Mc Quaid busted Vanguard....

    image
  • Eol-Eol- houston, TXPosts: 274Member

    [mod edit]

    Personally, I love the direction ESO is going. They are going a different route than the WoW/Rift/etc etc where endgame progression raids are the be all end all, and will fill a good market in the MMO customer base. But they are also giving PvE players a reason to play too, and they aren't going the FFA open world pvp route which turns off casual and pve players.

    I can only speak for me, and players like me, but IMO ESO will have wide (not total, but wide) appeal to a large segment of the MMO customer base. I wish them luck. Players who wont compromise and want a PvE/raid or hardcore open world pvp game should look elsewhere. I certainly turn away from other games because they aren't what *I* want, but I don't try to pretend that I represent 'everyone'. No game will ever appeal to 'everyone', or even 'most' players.

    Elladan - ESO (AD)
    Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
    Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
    Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
    Kili - WoW
    Eol - Lineage 2
    Camring - SWG
    Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  • Eol-Eol- houston, TXPosts: 274Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    What on earth gives you that impression? It's how does lack of new information indicate any change whatsoever. They're making the game. If they gave breaking news every week, there would be nothing left to reveal at launch.

    Yep, standard fan response #44 to long stretches of silence by Developers which all too frequently is a good portent of trouble behind the scenes.

    It is a fair concern, this is not our first time to the rodeo and there are warning signs we've all learned to take heed of.

    Doesn't mean that for sure there's anything amiss, but it does beg to question.

    There is a ton of information released on this game. I have no idea what you are talking about. I think tney *might* be spending more time in development to deal with some of the graphics/movement issues that were raised, but other than that, they seem to be moving right along. Release is about 6 months away, do you really expect all the information to be made public now? No game does that. In part because its still under development and could change during playtesting, and once they announce something, some players act like its etched in granite and if it changes they call the developers 'liars'. So I don't blame game companies for releasing info slowly and when its pretty solid and unlikely to change a lot.

    Elladan - ESO (AD)
    Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
    Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
    Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
    Kili - WoW
    Eol - Lineage 2
    Camring - SWG
    Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC

  • Oph8Oph8 whydoyouneedtoknow, CAPosts: 177Member
    Your a funny guy. Scrambling, no one is scrambling over at Zenimax. 

    "Everything is mine and your woman too"

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