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Beware of Warner Brs/Turbine games

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  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by PWN_FACE
    And paying overdraft fees, for example, are damages caused by this billing error. This could add up quite a bit in a lawsuit, not to mention if there are legal fees to pay or punitive damages. Looks like trouble brewing for sure.

     I don't want to imagine the amount of overdraft fees that would happen to these customers.

    yea it's gonna be a long week for T billing.   As far as the person talking about stealing, for that to stick you have to prove intent.

    however damages on the other hand particularly if ones credit rating got jacked up after the account drain then a legit bill got missed....

    image
  • BingoBongBangoBingoBongBango Woodinville, WAPosts: 24Member
    Originally posted by BMBender

    I want to apologize to the OP.  I assumed in the back of my head that you were just Turbine bashing so I caveated my statement's with (iff accurate)

    I checked the AC site and the OP is in fact telling the truth.  sorry for suspicion it was the post count + the subject matter

     

    again I apologize

    No worries at all Bender ... its totally understandable to be skeptical especially with me just creating my account today ... and in all honesty I created it for the purposes of posting this information ... looking around I like the forums here so its a benefit to me now too :-)

     

    I've been a supporter for Turbine for 14 years .... the developers that remain are great people and they have been doing a stellar job at trying to re-invent the game (AC that is) ... what other game has lasted 14+ years ?   it was the fact that they (boffins above the developers) are still trying to cover this up is what bothered me and I usually am not the type of person to make a fuss of things like this but as people are saying ... over draft fees, late fees for a car payment missed due to no fund available .... closing of bank account due to 100's+ transactions from the same vendor on a weekend ... actually any time this happens is more than just a PITA .... so it really got my goat going ....

    If me posting this makes people aware and perhaps some other larger gaming sites gets a hold of the info and make it public it may help people that got totally burnt by this with Turbine get some real resolution and Turbine admitting (publicly) that such major over charges have taken place and will everything in there power to compensate the people involved ... not just pay the monies they took out of the accounts ... 

     

    As for me my bank has already closed my account and I'm getting a new card with a new account number so they cant charge me any more .... but also they can not reverse the charges now so I have to dispute the charges with the bank and fight that battle ... hoping on Monday my bank will be able to help with all that ... my bank is awesome and go way above and beyond (its credit union so that makes a difference)

     

    Sorry for being so long winded on all this .......

     

  • HelleriHelleri Felton, CAPosts: 927Member Uncommon

    Even though these are boiler plate contracts, enforceability (or lack thereof), depends on the state, region, or province you are in, the court the matter is heard through, And a really good argument on either side. If you did or do any of the following:

     

    - Pay them utilizing a line of credit not in your name.

    - Install their software on a machine that you can not prove ownership of.

    - Show/Have no substantial evidence of your claims.

    - Agree to their ToS/EULA when not of age to legally do so where you live.

    - Did not allow for adequate time according to your local laws for a resolution to the issue to be reached outside of court.

     

    Any claim you or anyone would make on your behalf is substantially weaker. Especially if the company makes the ToS/EULA publicly available before the point of having to agree to it to proceed with use of their product (which Turbine does on their website, though it is difficult to navigate to without typing it into google).

     

    The biggest reason that they will get away with it is because a heavy chunk of their users,are using their service illegally (or at the very least in a way that is against their explicit terms/conditions of use). If you go after them for whatever reason, they will do everything in their power to find fault with you.And, these are big boys. They won't play nice. If you have one song, movie, game or even an OS that you do not have the legal right to be in possession of or use of on your machine. be ready to go to jail soon after you start something with them.

     

    If you start shart with a big boy...you'd best be squeaky clean to begin with. You also had best have the funds and time to commit to a very long process. Because they will draw it out as long as they can. And, you better have an air tight claim too. They have. They do. And, they will likely continue to get away with it. Because, those with the ability to hold them accountable don't care. And, those who care for the most part don't have the ability (or the drive) to see it through.

     

    There may come a point when they mess up too badly. To where it reflects poorly on your local government to not go after them. But, I don't think this is nearly enough to get that ball rolling, when big electric, or big oil do stuff far worse then this to their customers each year and no one bats an eyelash.

     

    It does suck, and thanks for the warning. Heck I have not enjoyed anything they have produced for sometime. And this is a final nail in the coffin for me ever playing one of their games again. And, if you got the ballz resources and ability to go after them...more power to you. But, otherwise..watcha gana do?

     

    image

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,112Member Uncommon

    Damn again? This happened not that long ago you would think they would have fixed the damn problem already. Seriously it is like Turbine/WN is actively trying to kill off DDO, can't say for their other games but this is what it looks like to me for DDO and all the crappy FOS changes not to mention the enhancement pass/nerf.

     

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
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  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,112Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Helleri

    *SNIP*

    There may come a point when they mess up too badly. To where it reflects poorly on your local government to not go after them. But, I don't think this is nearly enough to get that ball rolling, when big electric, or big oil do stuff far worse then this to their customers each year and no one bats an eyelash.

     

    *SNIP*

     

    While you have a point please do not compare WB/Turbine to big oil and other huge energy related organizations otherwise the rest of your post looses all credibility.

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
    PSU: Antec EA 750watt
    RAM: 2x2g G-SKILL DDR3-1600mhz 9-9-9-24
    Mb:Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4P
    CPU: i5-750 @4ghz
    GPU: gtx msi N760 TF 2GD5/OC
    cooling: Noctua NH-D14
    storage: seagate 600 240GB SSD, 500GB x7200rpm HDD

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BMBender
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by PWN_FACE
    And paying overdraft fees, for example, are damages caused by this billing error. This could add up quite a bit in a lawsuit, not to mention if there are legal fees to pay or punitive damages. Looks like trouble brewing for sure.

     I don't want to imagine the amount of overdraft fees that would happen to these customers.

    yea it's gonna be a long week for T billing.   As far as the person talking about stealing, for that to stick you have to prove intent.

    however damages on the other hand particularly if ones credit rating got jacked up after the account drain then a legit bill got missed....

     If you take money from someone's account without authorization/consent you're stealing. Also remember that this is not the first time Turbine/Warner Bro. has done this either.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    Pathetic really.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,195Member Uncommon
    That sucks. I hope you all get it straightened out. I've never had the problems with billing. There was a similar issue several years ago as well, and I remember the thing with Funcom too. I was subbed to AoC at the time. I made it through those unscathed. Now I pay Wells Fargo to deal with this crap for me. Even so hassling that out on the phone would really make me grumpy.
  • huntersamhuntersam OckleyPosts: 152Member
    Originally posted by BingoBongBango
    Originally posted by Helleri

    This is why I always pay with game cards, or pre-paid gift cards...I simply do not trust these companies with my information. And, especially not Turbine.

     

    Thing is, any one who had made an account with them - by the simple act of having Turbine's software on said users machine - had given them exoneration from this. And, from anything they might do in the future. Take a look at this excerpt from their EULA:

     
    LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND ARISING OUT OF OR RELATING TO THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT OR ANY USE THEREOF, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY LOSS OF DATA OR GOODWILL, DISRUPTION OF SERVICE OR CLAIMS OF THIRD PARTIES. IN NO EVENT SHALL TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, EXEMPLARY, PUNITIVE, LIQUIDATED, OR OTHER CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER UNDER CONTRACT, TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE), STRICT LIABILITY OR ANY OTHER THEORY OF LIABILITY, ARISING FROM YOUR USE OF THE GAME (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE GAME CLIENT). THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS SHALL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, EVEN IF ANY REMEDY FAILS OF ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE. In no event shall Turbine's aggregate liability, whether arising in contract, tort, strict liability or otherwise, exceed the total fees paid by you to Turbine during the six (6) months immediately prior to the time such claim arose.
     
    Not only that but it's users are pretty much required to defend their honor, no matter what and not complain (another excerpt):
     
    INDEMNIFICATION. YOU HEREBY AGREE TO DEFEND, INDEMNIFY AND HOLD HARMLESS TURBINE, ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES AND AFFILIATES, FROM AND AGAINST ANY CLAIM, LIABILITY, INJURY, DAMAGE, LOSS OR EXPENSE (INCLUDING REASONABLE ATTORNEYS' FEES) INCURRED AS A RESULT OF, ARISING FROM, OR RELATING TO YOUR USE OF THE GAME AND/OR THE GAME CLIENT.
     
    And, many EULA/TOS across the MMORPG board are a lot like this one...If the OP has an active account with turbine (As in having their software on a computer that the OP owns), then the OP just violated their EULA with this thread. Not, trying to be a jerk about it. Just saying, that is the extent of your lack of freedoms when you play many MMORPG's. It is insane and it should be illegal. And, they should not be able to get away with this un-scaved and just sweep it under the rug...But, they will. And, if you don't like it. tough cookies.
     
     
    ...I have said it before and will say it again
     
    Totally hear what you are saying .... suck a lot but very very true .... how many of us just click the accept button on EULA's .... and don't see you as being a jerk ... its great information ..

     

     

    however in the UK we have thew unfair contracts ande causes act and EULA have never been tested in court because there is a very good chance they would be defeated .

    image

  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
     

     

    however in the UK we have thew unfair contracts ande causes act and EULA have never been tested in court because there is a very good chance they would be defeated .

    Yea that stuff doesn't get tested much on the other side of the pond either.  The bluff tactics works just as well on us as you guys :D

    image
  • HelleriHelleri Felton, CAPosts: 927Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by Helleri

    *SNIP*

    There may come a point when they mess up too badly. To where it reflects poorly on your local government to not go after them. But, I don't think this is nearly enough to get that ball rolling, when big electric, or big oil do stuff far worse then this to their customers each year and no one bats an eyelash.

     

    *SNIP*

     

    While you have a point please do not compare WB/Turbine to big oil and other huge energy related organizations otherwise the rest of your post looses all credibility.

    Time Warner made almost 30bil last year for having been founded in 1990. And, General Electric thereabouts of 147.5bil last year and it was founded around 1890)....And, BP made the most last year (around 390bil) and they go back as far as what 1919? and all of their entertainment subsidies did about on par with each other level for level. That is a perfectly reasonable scalable comparison. Given the scalable blunders customer service wise on part of all parties in recent times. And everything on these forums without direct evidence can only be taken as opinion and digest any way...

     

    So I goto ask, What exactly is this credibility I have lost and why?

    image

  • Nogard666Nogard666 Lawrence, KSPosts: 1Member
    Originally posted by Helleri

    Even though these are boiler plate contracts, enforceability (or lack thereof), depends on the state, region, or province you are in, the court the matter is heard through, And a really good argument on either side. If you did or do any of the following:

     

    - Pay them utilizing a line of credit not in your name.

    - Install their software on a machine that you can not prove ownership of.

    - Show/Have no substantial evidence of your claims.

    - Agree to their ToS/EULA when not of age to legally do so where you live.

    - Did not allow for adequate time according to your local laws for a resolution to the issue to be reached outside of court.

     

    Any claim you or anyone would make on your behalf is substantially weaker. Especially if the company makes the ToS/EULA publicly available before the point of having to agree to it to proceed with use of their product (which Turbine does on their website, though it is difficult to navigate to without typing it into google).

     

    The biggest reason that they will get away with it is because a heavy chunk of their users,are using their service illegally (or at the very least in a way that is against their explicit terms/conditions of use). If you go after them for whatever reason, they will do everything in their power to find fault with you.And, these are big boys. They won't play nice. If you have one song, movie, game or even an OS that you do not have the legal right to be in possession of or use of on your machine. be ready to go to jail soon after you start something with them.

     

    If you start shart with a big boy...you'd best be squeaky clean to begin with. You also had best have the funds and time to commit to a very long process. Because they will draw it out as long as they can. And, you better have an air tight claim too. They have. They do. And, they will likely continue to get away with it. Because, those with the ability to hold them accountable don't care. And, those who care for the most part don't have the ability (or the drive) to see it through.

     

    There may come a point when they mess up too badly. To where it reflects poorly on your local government to not go after them. But, I don't think this is nearly enough to get that ball rolling, when big electric, or big oil do stuff far worse then this to their customers each year and no one bats an eyelash.

     

    It does suck, and thanks for the warning. Heck I have not enjoyed anything they have produced for sometime. And this is a final nail in the coffin for me ever playing one of their games again. And, if you got the ballz resources and ability to go after them...more power to you. But, otherwise..watcha gana do?

     

     

    Tell me, on what legal ground would they have for searching my computer for music and such based on a lawsuit that would be over them illegally (note, it is only illegal if they do not make reparations for any and all charges and fees that are a direct result of this over charging, similar things have happened with other online billing systems before and they only had to pay any and all charges and fees that were a result of the over charging/multiple charging) charging my bank account to much? Any lawyer worth his degree can easily prevent them from searching my PC and can have anything they may bring up dismissed due to them not having any legal right to search  my PC. As for how solid the ToS/EULA may be, it is only as solid as those signs that stores put up claiming they are not responsible for damage done by carts. Those signs are 100% incorrect and are only there to fool people. Laws require places of business keep their lots free and clear of all debris and carts are legally debris. However because sheeple always believe what they read they do not bother to actually go out and learn anything different.  No ToS/EULA in the world makes the company immune to the law in any way. Therefore any claims brought to court would not be weakened by them. As far as funds and time to commit to any legal actions, something on this scale would likely become a class action suit which would greatly reduce the cost on all parts, including WB as once it reaches class action status then any person affected by this billing mistake who does not join can be denied the ability to file a single claim against WB separate from the class action suit.

  • MorrokMorrok MunichPosts: 130Member


    Originally posted by PWN_FACE
    Those EULAs are there just to cow people into thinking they don't have legal rights or that they've signed them away.

    This.

    Besides, as i have said elsewhere already, EULAs aren't necessarily (or better: generally) binding in any way anyways.
    Companies, almost by definition, want to limit their accountability to zero.
    So they try to impose "contracts" on customers which give them all rights (e.g. to charge you recurring fees) while at the same time denying the customer any of HIS rights.
    Yet, what many people forget is that certain customer right's can not be denied in the first place (which these are depend on the local laws) rendering the whole (or at least the "offending" parts of the) EULA null and void.

    As was said, companies want to discourage people from taking legal action against them, that's all there is to it.

  • KazuhiroKazuhiro Hampshire, AZPosts: 504Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Originally posted by BingoBongBango

     

    and thank goodness you are F2P .. your money is safe

    I'm pretty sure the words "money", "safe", and "FTP" should never be used in the same sentence.

    I see what you did there. Well done.

    To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,268Member Uncommon

    i remember the first one several months back, but again? geez

     

  • mogi67mogi67 15317, PAPosts: 65Member
    Got hit for 14 charges on one account.....thank God it was on a CC and not on a bank card
  • HelleriHelleri Felton, CAPosts: 927Member Uncommon
    Might be smart for them to offer even the players that were not effected some good in-game items or cash-shop money or something. This might scare off most of those who were effected by it. But, by proxy it could also loose them a lot of people who weren't out of sheer panic. After they make sure this is fully resolved and everyone gets their money back. They are probably going to have to act fast to quell remaining descent and placate their players as a whole.

    image

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus BaatorPosts: 1,112Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Helleri
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by Helleri

    *SNIP*

    There may come a point when they mess up too badly. To where it reflects poorly on your local government to not go after them. But, I don't think this is nearly enough to get that ball rolling, when big electric, or big oil do stuff far worse then this to their customers each year and no one bats an eyelash.

     

    *SNIP*

     

    While you have a point please do not compare WB/Turbine to big oil and other huge energy related organizations otherwise the rest of your post looses all credibility.

    Time Warner made almost 30bil last year for having been founded in 1990. And, General Electric thereabouts of 147.5bil last year and it was founded around 1890)....And, BP made the most last year (around 390bil) and they go back as far as what 1919? and all of their entertainment subsidies did about on par with each other level for level. That is a perfectly reasonable scalable comparison. Given the scalable blunders customer service wise on part of all parties in recent times. And everything on these forums without direct evidence can only be taken as opinion and digest any way...

     

    So I goto ask, What exactly is this credibility I have lost and why?

    You lose credibility because it is asinine to compare  30bill to 147bil/390bil.  Do you really think WB/Turbine has the same power as these big energy companies?

    If these big energy companies want stuff covered up do you really thin WB or Turbine can exude the same kind of pressure/power ? LOL

     

    It is oranges and steaks.   Anyhoot this is getting off topic so believe what you will ;)

    case: Coolermaster HAF932
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  • HelleriHelleri Felton, CAPosts: 927Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by Helleri
    Originally posted by Asm0deus
    Originally posted by Helleri

    *SNIP*

    There may come a point when they mess up too badly. To where it reflects poorly on your local government to not go after them. But, I don't think this is nearly enough to get that ball rolling, when big electric, or big oil do stuff far worse then this to their customers each year and no one bats an eyelash.

     

    *SNIP*

     

    While you have a point please do not compare WB/Turbine to big oil and other huge energy related organizations otherwise the rest of your post looses all credibility.

    Time Warner made almost 30bil last year for having been founded in 1990. And, General Electric thereabouts of 147.5bil last year and it was founded around 1890)....And, BP made the most last year (around 390bil) and they go back as far as what 1919? and all of their entertainment subsidies did about on par with each other level for level. That is a perfectly reasonable scalable comparison. Given the scalable blunders customer service wise on part of all parties in recent times. And everything on these forums without direct evidence can only be taken as opinion and digest any way...

     

    So I goto ask, What exactly is this credibility I have lost and why?

    You lose credibility because it is asinine to compare  30bill to 147bil/390bil.  Do you really think WB/Turbine has the same power as these big energy companies?

    If these big energy companies want stuff covered up do you really thin WB or Turbine can exude the same kind of pressure/power ? LOL

     

    It is oranges and steaks.   Anyhoot this is getting off topic so believe what you will ;)

    The point is that Time Warner is shown to be, by contrast of a larger company - with more resources, and bigger blunders, only getting slaps on the wrist or fines that don't even effect them - likely to go unpunished by any one in authority. They don't need the power of a fortune 500 like General Electric. Because, respectively they have low visibility, and made a much smaller mistake. However, they can manage it with the same efficiency.

     

    Like if the power grid fails in a rural area of a larger county. Dissolve any ties with your worst critics, control the flow of information and discussion on the matter to the best of your ability. Make the most immediate repair to the situation necessary. placate the effected. Get those who were not effected more on your side.

     

    The same strategy is needed by the smaller company to handle their smaller issue, as is needed by the larger company to handle their larger issue.  The only difference is the scale on which these things happen. And scale alone is not enough to make it a poor comparison. Especially since when you are talking about Time Warner you are talking about Warner Brothers entertainment. And, when your talking about General electric you are also talking about RCA and NBC. It may seem like two different things on the surface. But, it really is the same thing. If something has 9 ways in which it is like something else and 1 way in which it isn't (but given choice circumstances could easily be) how are they so different that they cannot be fairly compared?

    image

  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Catskills, NYPosts: 1,832Member

    IANAL,

    Your first stop if Turbine does not rectify it voluntarly is your Bank or Credit Card Company. The Bank or Credit Card Company doesn't WANT this stuff to happen because it defeats confidence in using thier services to pay bills and for customers to keep money/accounts in. So if you are genuinely in the right here, the Bank or CC company WILL usualy be your advocate in this sort of thing though it will take some paperwork to do. No matter how much influence WB or another gaming company thinks they might have....let me assure you it doesn't hold a candle to a major bank or CC company. And unlike an EULA, the Developer will have signed a REAL and FULLY ENFORCEABLE Contract with the CC company in order to do charges.

    Your second stop, if for some reason the above doesn't seem to be working well.....is (if you live in the US) to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commision. You might also want to check with your state AG to see if there are state agencies that can assist as well. As mentioned above, EULA does not trump any rights you have as a consumer due to Federal or State law. In many cases the FTC (or State AG's) do like to go after Private Enterprises, if there are legitimate cases that involve large numbers of consumers because those Agencies can get income by charging the Private Enterprise FINES and PENALTIES which go to government coffers in addition to forcing restitution toward consumers. Cash going directly into government coffers often helps offset influence that an Enterprise might have.

    In any even, most businesses try to avoid that if they can because the cost of dealing with those things is often more then the cost of dealing with a few squeeky consumers. You have to be PROACTIVE about that though.....because they figure (usualy correctly) that only a small portion of consumers will actively pursue that sort of thing, so they'll make sure those consumers get satisfied....and the rest they'll just do the minimum that they would be required to do legaly (i.e. give back the money they erroneously charged). YMMV.

     

     

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

    IANAL,

    Your first stop if Turbine does not rectify it voluntarly is your Bank or Credit Card Company.

    To be fair, hours after it happened Turbine said they were refunding the money to anyone affected. They also said they sent e-mails to all of those who were affected as well. They even said if people got overdraft charges or similar to contact them so they can rectify that.

     

    They did respond quite quickly. The OP was mad that they didn't post in the general forums (they posted in the account forums which makes sense) and that they didn't keep coming back to repeat that they did in fact do the refunds (which they said could take a few days to show up depending on the bank).

     

    That isn't to say that anything Turbine did here is ok, it is absolutely not and it is actually about the worst thing you could do. They did handle it properly (stopped the extra charges and refunding the money along with opening themselves up for people to report extra charges they incurred due to this problem), but some people expected them to give hourly updates even though they had already taken care of it. Not sure what they expected those updates to be "Again, we just wanted to say we did already take care of this, we will say it again next hour as well.:

     

    Here is their post:

    https://www.asheronscall.com/en/forums/showthread.php?61605-Billing-Issue-Update

     

    At this time we are in the process of issuing direct refunds for any charges to affected accounts above the cost of monthly subscription payment(s). Please note that it may take a few days for these refunds to be reflected on bank statements after the refund is issued; the length of processing time depends on your bank. Once the refund has been processed, your bank can verify the transaction before it shows on your statement. If you need further assistance, or have questions with regards to the refund or any potential related fees, we recommend that you contact the phone number on the back of your bank card.

    If you do not see the refund on your statement after a few days, if you incurred any penalties due to the charges, or if you need further assistance with your account or billing, our Customer Service Agents will be happy to take care of you. You can get in touch with Account Support by going to support.turbine.com, then clicking on "Support Center" and "Submit a Ticket." Players can also contact Account Support toll-free at 1-855-WBGAMES (Account Support Hours: 10am – 7pm Eastern Time 7 days a week (GMT -5).)

    We deeply apologize for this situation, and any difficulties this has caused. We want to assure everyone that Turbine is dedicated to making sure we provide you with the best game experience and support possible, and that we are treating this issue with the highest priority. We are taking steps to ensure this never happens again to any of our players.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by bcbully

    i remember the first one several months back, but again? geez

    http://www.tentonhammer.com/ddo/news/turbine-ddo-billing-issue-overcharges-some-players

    Posted Wed, Apr 24, 2013

    Following a recent maintenance phase, some players started noticing that their accounts had been overcharged for their subscriptions, some over a hundred of times. The silver lining (as best as it can be) is that Turbine is aware of the issue and working with their partners to correct the problem according to a recent post from Turbine’s Tolero.

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/view/forums/thread/383291/Major-Turbine-Billing-Glitch-players-are-being-charged-thousands-of-dollars.html

     

    hope Turbine gets it worked out  -- twice in same year

  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia

     -- twice in same year

    Yea this is going to make them real popular with the banks.  Putting aside the customer pushback for the moment. Banks really really do not like this sort of thing.   It popped fraud flags all over the place and doing it twice in 6 mo. makes doing business with them somewhat less attractive.

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  • BingoBongBangoBingoBongBango Woodinville, WAPosts: 24Member

    This part ---

     

    If you do not see the refund on your statement after a few days, if you incurred any penalties due to the charges, or if you need further assistance with your account or billing, our Customer Service Agents will be happy to take care of you. You can get in touch with Account Support by going to support.turbine.com, then clicking on "Support Center" and "Submit a Ticket." Players can also contact Account Support toll-free at 1-855-WBGAMES (Account Support Hours: 10am – 7pm Eastern Time 7 days a week (GMT -5).)

     

    If you have been playing turbine games in the last few years you will know that the support system is beyond hopeless ... people have been calling regarding this and being told its a known issue and saying there is nothing more they can do ....  Saying they will pay the money back is a given and no-one should have point that out .... this does not cover people that had no money over the weekend ....

    Tomorrow they are having a company meeting and have announced that their phone support system will be offline for a time ....

     

    If you actually read my original post you will see that I included that link as well with that exact same information in it .... and its not about being mad (thank for your mind reading abilities there its totally awesome) it about having $3.95 in my account when I need to do grocery shopping, my rent is due tomorrow and my car payment is due the next day along with my storage unit, my apartment blocks utilizes bill  etc etc etc ...   I have no doubt all the money will be paid back and they "say" extra charges will be covered ..  but as many have already found out that the phones are just ringing out or the technician is a total prat and closes the ticket ...  the work that I have to do now to prove to Turbine that I have overdraft fee's, late car payment fees, late rent fee's etc etc  .. I understand that having proof is needed as some people will claim they had extra charges that they didn't incur ....  but its a PITA that I don't really have the time for but will do it ....

     

    Maybe tomorrow's company wide meeting will be to address some of these issues  ..... and as other people have pointed out this is not the first time by a long shot that this has happened ... proving that there are horrible Q&A processes in the IT department ...... so again its not about being "mad" ..... when you have your whole bi-weekly pay check totally drained from your account before you've had a chance to even buy groceries, and you have to wait till possibly Wednesday till you get your money back .... and then you have to sit on the phone with baffoons for hours repeating the same information, getting put on hold, then repeating the same information, and then get all the documentation that you've been charged fee's by multiple establishments and then get that in the hand of Turbine .. then sit on the phone for hours with the bafoons just to make sure they do what they say, then come back and share your wonderfully insightful information

    If you have used Turbines support in the past few year for anything slightly complicated then you would never have posted any of that ...   

     

    AND ... communicating in a side forum that next to nobody reads and removing/closing any post from general discussion and facebook and twitter feeds, maybe 10% of the AC community dont read the forums either ... sending emails is fine and again it a given they should not even need to announce that ...  people already know they have a problem because they have no money

     

    I have not received an email btw .... so that system is working like a rock star as well  
     

  • SnarlingWolfSnarlingWolf Thereiam, ARPosts: 2,697Member

    Many players insisting on not using the different forums for their purpose (and always complaining there aren't announcements about downtimes even though they're posted in the announcement forums) isn't them trying to hide it.

     

    They put a post about account issues in the forum that is for "Technical and Account Issues", it kind of makes sense.

     

    Your first post implied they were trying to cover it up or dust it under the rug when they in fact have a post anyone can see (as their forums are open to the public to read) saying there was an issue and saying the steps they took.

     

    I understand plenty of people were pissed about this, and they had/have every right to be. No company should ever charge someone multiple times or in ways they did not agree to. There is no excuse, there is no explanation, no justification that would ever allow for it or that would make it ok that it happened. People should be angry, they should post that they're angry, they should yell and scream about how the hell this could ever happen. All of that is 100% justified. There is also nothing wrong with you coming here and posting the information as well.

     

    However, there was false information being tossed about by a few of those who were mad and there were some people (not saying you're one of them although suggesting they're trying to hide the issue is inflammatory) who were deliberately trying to inflame the situation as much as possible (in some cases because they weren't happy with other things like content changes or PvP issues so they used this as a platform to rage from).

     

    My post was intended to show that they did in fact acknowledge the issue, they did stop the multiple charges, and they did say they had begun to process the refunds, to contact them with any extra charge issues, and that they had contacted those affected by this (although you've said you haven't gotten an e-mail so it may not have been perfect. Did you verify which e-mail was attached to the account? I've known many AC players to use throw away e-mail accounts for their billing before, also check your spam filter just in case). So outside of the fact that they let this happen, which as I said is inexcusable, they did at least appear to be taking the proper steps and taking them quickly which is contrary to a lot of the information being put out there.

     

    I'm just really not sure what other type of post people wanted from them as that seemed to be the source of a lot of outrage. They posted acknowledging it happened and the steps they were taking to correct it. They also tried to funnel the discussions of it to the proper location, but people saw that as a cover-up even though they had their own public post about it.

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