I feel sorry for you guys. Set aside your console hate and be a gamer first! This game is amazing.
I don't hate on consoles, I just hate controller's
Developer's
Why cant we play console games with a mouse and keyboard?
^^
This.
If consoles games were compatible with mouse and keyboard id be more enthusiastic about Consoles. I have GTA V on PS3 simply cause i love anything Rockstar. But PC gaming is the way to go. so i stick to it
this makes no sense. gamepads make movement and the limitation of such feel a lot more natural and realistic. You want to win by pointing and clicking really? Come on.
I hate pads because they indeed are the absolutely non-natural way of aiming. With mouse I can aim like I'd aim in RL, the cursor go exactly where you want it to go, just like a rifle in your hand irl, however with pad you aim with your THUMB not with your HAND like you do with mouse, which results in very unrealistic and clumsy way of aiming. With pad you push the crosshair with your thumb in the direction you like, while with mouse, like in RL you simply move your hand in very precise way to the location you want your crosshair to be.
The reason why pads and mouses are not mixed in online shooters is because mouse give you an advantage, it's no secret, that means mouse is simply better for aiming. This is something that has been declared 10 years ago, it just is what it is. Console devs have said ages ago that they simply dont like M+KB because it does not fit with the lay back in sofa with pad in your hand gaming style, you actually need a proper desk for M+KB which is not the intented environment for consoles.
As a MMO junkie who usually avoids single player games like the plague i've been playing GTA5 on my xbox 360 for the last week. And the only thing I can think about is how wonderfull this would be as an MMO. It's the one thing that's missing from this game, real player population. Yeah I know GTAOnline is coming but 16 player on an XBox is not the same as thousands of people on a pc.
I can only hope that the people at Rockstar finally dare to take the next step and make GTA6 an MMO. The game world would be perfect for it.
it's not console hate, I just can't justify buying any more games for my ps3, and frankly the ps3 is stretched to the limit with gta5. A pc port with the multiplayer portion will basically take me away from mmos for probably a year....
I really hate the GTA series, but some of the author's points are quite valid. People should have realized that two years ago when Skyrim came out, but sadly...
"striving for better immersion and realism should be a priority"
I wouldn't argue with that, but there are many here who would.
Seems to me that the primary difference between Rockstar and most MMO developers is that Rockstar understands its market. They know what their players want and they deliver it, in spades. I'm not convinced that most MMO developers know what their players want. I'm not convinced that most MMO players know what they want. But I'll take "better immersion and realism" for starters.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I may be bursting some bubbles here, but GTA5 is a sad remake that keeps the same bugs and annoyances as GTA4.
The game map is tiny, the game is short, the storywriting is laughable, and the dialogs are not worthy of a cheap B movie. Dumbed down to the core with no room for creativity or intelligent design.
The game is graphically beautiful, but when you ask a friend "what's good of GTA5?" the answer is "well you can screw biatches and rob banks!". The exact same thing ever since GTA1, and that speaks very little in favor of the franchise, that apparently has spent millions upon millions of dollars to get this thing out. So much budget used only so that players are still only looking at screwing some biatches and robbing some banks.
What's good of it is that the average joe with a regular 9-5 job/school schedule can feel like he's the boss of an unbelievable fictional city, at least while he's plugged into a game console.
7/10 to the game, 2/10 to the review for being untruthful.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Stellar article, Bill! This is seriously one of the best articles I've seen on MMORPG in quite some time.
It goes to show just how on target you are when most of the dissenting arguments in the comments section have nothing to do with the game itself, and the ones that do focus on the game criticize the storyline or genre, not the actual gameplay or detail the article was actually about.
Since GTA 3, the series has been a massive success built on exploration of a sandbox environment. That very premise alone has been abandoned by most MMO's, to their detriment. The story in GTA has always taken a backseat to the world you could explore. You could choose to do, or not do, basically anything you wanted in these games, and your deviant actions come with consequences.
The shining piece of content in the series hasn't been the main story mode, but the mini-games and side missions like stealing a cop car and responding to calls, or stealing a list of cars ala "Gone In 60 Seconds." These missions are found by exploring the world, not by being led to them as players are in most MMO's.
The world detail described in this article is what makes a player WANT to go exploring in GTA. The feeling of immersion created in GTA games through the sheer level of detail surpasses anything that's been seen in MMO's, period. A few earlier MMO's like SWG have explored this level of detail, and a few newer MMO's like DCUO showed some promise early on, but those advances were abandoned in favor of the themepark/e-sport model before they were explored any further. GTA offers a world that feels alive, with NPC's that have their unique mannerisms and react to circumstances. Few MMO's have ever even attempted this level of detail, none have achieved it.
What sets GTA games apart from MMO's the most, however, is that there's no gear grind. There's an entire game to be explored, and at no time is there a barrier to entry based on what you're wearing. You don't have to repeat the same content over and over just to advance to the next level of repetitive content. This fact alone has been destroying the MMO genre since 2004, while GTA has become a crown jewel of the gaming industry. In GTA, a shotgun is a shotgun. You never have to repeat missions for the hope of getting "the shotgun of destiny" for a whopping 5% more damage in order to "be viable" for the next mission.
If the MMO industry had spent the last decade trying to utilize what made the GTA series an amazing success instead of what made WoW a hit, there wouldn't be such a long list of failed MMO's over that time period.
I am sorry Bill you you are way of with this topic, sure many seem to agree on the topic.
You simply can not compare a singleplayer game with a MMORPG.
Unless in the topic you would have explained how developers might build such a game that will not become a freezing lag fest with thousands of people playing it similtaniously.
Yes I love GTA but as said in no way could I compare what is given in singleplayer games with a MMORPG.
We have seen this before with many succesfull singleplayer game where people suddenly asumed this could or should be done with MMORPG's. Forgotten one minor HUGH fact: Two different game genre's.
I am 100% sure that developers/gamecompany's will want to create a lively world aka GTA. But at the same time they want allot of people enjoying their games.
With today's tech and a wide viarity between internet connection there is no way a game like GTA5 could succeed as a MMORPG. There for I find it logical that they choose to have a 16/16 online mode (soon) Again not comparable with a MMO/MMORPG.
This topic only served on people to get even more unrealistic expectations.
Maybe 4 to 6 years from now we might see things we came known with in singleplayer games. For now this topic puts people on the wrong foot.
I am sorry Bill you you are way of with this topic, sure many seem to agree on the topic.
You simply can not compare a singleplayer game with a MMORPG.
Unless in the topic you would have explained how developers might build such a game that will not become a freezing lag fest with thousands of people playing it similtaniously.
Yes I love GTA but as said in no way could I compare what is given in singleplayer games with a MMORPG.
We have seen this before with many succesfull singleplayer game where people suddenly asumed this could or should be done with MMORPG's. Forgotten one minor HUGH fact: Two different game genre's.
I am 100% sure that developers/gamecompany's will want to create a lively world aka GTA. But at the same time they want allot of people enjoying their games.
With today's tech and a wide viarity between internet connection there is no way a game like GTA5 could succeed as a MMORPG. There for I find it logical that they choose to have a 16/16 online mode (soon) Again not comparable with a MMO/MMORPG.
This topic only served on people to get even more unrealistic expectations.
Maybe 4 to 6 years from now we might see things we came known with in singleplayer games. For now this topic puts people on the wrong foot.
Yea my supposition is that any fresh air in the mmo scene will come from SP developers/pubs who expand into it with intent or by accident(as communication media changes this might be possible). Mmo developers/pubs these days generally appear to have very vague ideas on the games they want to make and an even vaguer idea of target audience other than "everybody".
Originally posted by pappacube Brilliantly said. And I agree the GTA V game world sets the bar for all other games.
$250 million bar, that other games with 1/10 budget have already surpassed. ArcheAge I am looking at you.
sorry AA didn't make a billion in sales in 3 days. Most major movie box office weekends don't even come close to that. I'm not a huge fan of the GTA franchise either, but I can count.
Yea my supposition is that any fresh air in the mmo scene will come from SP developers/pubs who expand into it with intent or by accident(as communication media changes this might be possible). Mmo developers/pubs these days generally appear to have very vague ideas on the games they want to make and an even vaguer idea of target audience other than "everybody".
Oh I do agree, yet I also feel that MMO or MMORPG are about 4 to 6 years behind that what can be delivered in singleplayer games. So I check my expectations towards my personal game experiance.
Seeing the budget of GTA5 how much does OP thinks an MMO version similar or in a fantasy setting would cost?
The problem with singleplayer games is they leave the desire for more, especially for those of us in the MMO/rpg genre can only imagine certain singleplayer games turning MMORPG, yet most forget what it would take not only from the developers viewpoint but also from the consumer. I simply don't believe the majority of people into games have high end systems. But it's still the majority of gamers gamecompany's want to serve.
I am open for al sorts of innovations in MMORPG's but first let them perfect what is giving major issue's in most of today's MMORPS's. Once we see that it will be time to see more innovation.
Yea my supposition is that any fresh air in the mmo scene will come from SP developers/pubs who expand into it with intent or by accident(as communication media changes this might be possible). Mmo developers/pubs these days generally appear to have very vague ideas on the games they want to make and an even vaguer idea of target audience other than "everybody".
Oh I do agree, yet I also feel that MMO or MMORPG are about 4 to 6 years behind that what can be delivered in singleplayer games. So I check my expectations towards my personal game experiance.
Seeing the budget of GTA5 how much does OP thinks an MMO version similar or in a fantasy setting would cost?
The problem with singleplayer games is they leave the desire for more, especially for those of us in the MMO/rpg genre can only imagine certain singleplayer games turning MMORPG, yet most forget what it would take not only from the developers viewpoint but also from the consumer. I simply don't believe the majority of people into games have high end systems. But it's still the majority of gamers gamecompany's want to serve.
I am open for al sorts of innovations in MMORPG's but first let them perfect what is giving major issue's in most of today's MMORPS's. Once we see that it will be time to see more innovation.
that's why I'm thinking in terms of expansion. The skyrim community is still jumping thanks to mods. Same with GTA IV until V hit. It's not that big a leap for an existing product/service to make.
EDIT and it would certainly be more cost effective than trying to do it from scratch. If you can avoid alienating whichever core demographic your games built around that is. The other major hurdle would be if your engine is versatile enough to handle it, witch is another reason I think that if SP devs/pubs were start branching towards the mmo space it will be the ones designed from the outset as mod able that lead the way.
Game is great fun for a single player game, but Rockstar doesn't have a great track record for online play, especially with the GTA series. Will have to see how this pans out.
I have a question. Well first a statement. Lets put aside the fact that GTA, in itself, is a waste of space and everything that gives computer gamers a bad name. Also lets ignore the fact the author prefaced that we should ignore that fact. Umm content is everything and this game is a piece of trash. Also why the hell are you doing an article on a single player thugonomic shoot em criminal fantasy game on a MMO site that, very obviously, is for MMOs.
Now I've watched this game being played. I haven't played it. Don't want to. I know enough about it to know it's not my thing. To compare that piece of dung to a MMO and say it has better immersion just goes to prove that we are bereft of imagination in today's society. That makes me sad.
I have to disagree with the article. Enjoy playing as thug ? Personally I find that quite distasteful, hence I hardly think it is worthwhile attempting to make it appear like a good game.
Find a decent game to laud, not that game.
[mod edit]
Hardly, just that there are a lot of stupid parents out there that buy this and let their kids play it. You obviously don't pay attention to the news at all. There are a lot of dumb people out there that definitively believe that violent video games lead to violent behavior. Putting games like this out does not help those trying to defend the game industry.
I agree. GTA5 has a much better world than any MMO released the last decade. However I am not surprised. With the release of the WoW clone after another, the MMO industry stopped creating virtual worlds and instead just on the rails ThemePark games.
And here we are, tons of MMOs to play but not one with a plausible virtual world.
The problem I've seen for spoiling the feel in MMOs are other players. One of my favorite single player games is Fallout 3, get away from the settlements and there is a real sense of solitude, now imagine how it will be with dozens of other players doing the same mission.
Comments
I hate pads because they indeed are the absolutely non-natural way of aiming. With mouse I can aim like I'd aim in RL, the cursor go exactly where you want it to go, just like a rifle in your hand irl, however with pad you aim with your THUMB not with your HAND like you do with mouse, which results in very unrealistic and clumsy way of aiming. With pad you push the crosshair with your thumb in the direction you like, while with mouse, like in RL you simply move your hand in very precise way to the location you want your crosshair to be.
The reason why pads and mouses are not mixed in online shooters is because mouse give you an advantage, it's no secret, that means mouse is simply better for aiming. This is something that has been declared 10 years ago, it just is what it is. Console devs have said ages ago that they simply dont like M+KB because it does not fit with the lay back in sofa with pad in your hand gaming style, you actually need a proper desk for M+KB which is not the intented environment for consoles.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
As a MMO junkie who usually avoids single player games like the plague i've been playing GTA5 on my xbox 360 for the last week. And the only thing I can think about is how wonderfull this would be as an MMO. It's the one thing that's missing from this game, real player population. Yeah I know GTAOnline is coming but 16 player on an XBox is not the same as thousands of people on a pc.
I can only hope that the people at Rockstar finally dare to take the next step and make GTA6 an MMO. The game world would be perfect for it.
so say we all
"striving for better immersion and realism should be a priority"
I wouldn't argue with that, but there are many here who would.
Seems to me that the primary difference between Rockstar and most MMO developers is that Rockstar understands its market. They know what their players want and they deliver it, in spades. I'm not convinced that most MMO developers know what their players want. I'm not convinced that most MMO players know what they want. But I'll take "better immersion and realism" for starters.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I may be bursting some bubbles here, but GTA5 is a sad remake that keeps the same bugs and annoyances as GTA4.
The game map is tiny, the game is short, the storywriting is laughable, and the dialogs are not worthy of a cheap B movie. Dumbed down to the core with no room for creativity or intelligent design.
The game is graphically beautiful, but when you ask a friend "what's good of GTA5?" the answer is "well you can screw biatches and rob banks!". The exact same thing ever since GTA1, and that speaks very little in favor of the franchise, that apparently has spent millions upon millions of dollars to get this thing out. So much budget used only so that players are still only looking at screwing some biatches and robbing some banks.
What's good of it is that the average joe with a regular 9-5 job/school schedule can feel like he's the boss of an unbelievable fictional city, at least while he's plugged into a game console.
7/10 to the game, 2/10 to the review for being untruthful.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Stellar article, Bill! This is seriously one of the best articles I've seen on MMORPG in quite some time.
It goes to show just how on target you are when most of the dissenting arguments in the comments section have nothing to do with the game itself, and the ones that do focus on the game criticize the storyline or genre, not the actual gameplay or detail the article was actually about.
Since GTA 3, the series has been a massive success built on exploration of a sandbox environment. That very premise alone has been abandoned by most MMO's, to their detriment. The story in GTA has always taken a backseat to the world you could explore. You could choose to do, or not do, basically anything you wanted in these games, and your deviant actions come with consequences.
The shining piece of content in the series hasn't been the main story mode, but the mini-games and side missions like stealing a cop car and responding to calls, or stealing a list of cars ala "Gone In 60 Seconds." These missions are found by exploring the world, not by being led to them as players are in most MMO's.
The world detail described in this article is what makes a player WANT to go exploring in GTA. The feeling of immersion created in GTA games through the sheer level of detail surpasses anything that's been seen in MMO's, period. A few earlier MMO's like SWG have explored this level of detail, and a few newer MMO's like DCUO showed some promise early on, but those advances were abandoned in favor of the themepark/e-sport model before they were explored any further. GTA offers a world that feels alive, with NPC's that have their unique mannerisms and react to circumstances. Few MMO's have ever even attempted this level of detail, none have achieved it.
What sets GTA games apart from MMO's the most, however, is that there's no gear grind. There's an entire game to be explored, and at no time is there a barrier to entry based on what you're wearing. You don't have to repeat the same content over and over just to advance to the next level of repetitive content. This fact alone has been destroying the MMO genre since 2004, while GTA has become a crown jewel of the gaming industry. In GTA, a shotgun is a shotgun. You never have to repeat missions for the hope of getting "the shotgun of destiny" for a whopping 5% more damage in order to "be viable" for the next mission.
If the MMO industry had spent the last decade trying to utilize what made the GTA series an amazing success instead of what made WoW a hit, there wouldn't be such a long list of failed MMO's over that time period.
What do you mean be better not worse, do you mean a nice guy not a bad guy?
A lot of people agree with Walter White on Breaking Bad, and they sympathize with him.
There is a reason.
Good, Bad. "Those are just like, your opinion, man."
I am sorry Bill you you are way of with this topic, sure many seem to agree on the topic.
You simply can not compare a singleplayer game with a MMORPG.
Unless in the topic you would have explained how developers might build such a game that will not become a freezing lag fest with thousands of people playing it similtaniously.
Yes I love GTA but as said in no way could I compare what is given in singleplayer games with a MMORPG.
We have seen this before with many succesfull singleplayer game where people suddenly asumed this could or should be done with MMORPG's. Forgotten one minor HUGH fact: Two different game genre's.
I am 100% sure that developers/gamecompany's will want to create a lively world aka GTA. But at the same time they want allot of people enjoying their games.
With today's tech and a wide viarity between internet connection there is no way a game like GTA5 could succeed as a MMORPG. There for I find it logical that they choose to have a 16/16 online mode (soon) Again not comparable with a MMO/MMORPG.
This topic only served on people to get even more unrealistic expectations.
Maybe 4 to 6 years from now we might see things we came known with in singleplayer games. For now this topic puts people on the wrong foot.
Yea my supposition is that any fresh air in the mmo scene will come from SP developers/pubs who expand into it with intent or by accident(as communication media changes this might be possible). Mmo developers/pubs these days generally appear to have very vague ideas on the games they want to make and an even vaguer idea of target audience other than "everybody".
sorry AA didn't make a billion in sales in 3 days. Most major movie box office weekends don't even come close to that. I'm not a huge fan of the GTA franchise either, but I can count.
Oh I do agree, yet I also feel that MMO or MMORPG are about 4 to 6 years behind that what can be delivered in singleplayer games. So I check my expectations towards my personal game experiance.
Seeing the budget of GTA5 how much does OP thinks an MMO version similar or in a fantasy setting would cost?
The problem with singleplayer games is they leave the desire for more, especially for those of us in the MMO/rpg genre can only imagine certain singleplayer games turning MMORPG, yet most forget what it would take not only from the developers viewpoint but also from the consumer. I simply don't believe the majority of people into games have high end systems. But it's still the majority of gamers gamecompany's want to serve.
I am open for al sorts of innovations in MMORPG's but first let them perfect what is giving major issue's in most of today's MMORPS's. Once we see that it will be time to see more innovation.
that's why I'm thinking in terms of expansion. The skyrim community is still jumping thanks to mods. Same with GTA IV until V hit. It's not that big a leap for an existing product/service to make.
EDIT and it would certainly be more cost effective than trying to do it from scratch. If you can avoid alienating whichever core demographic your games built around that is. The other major hurdle would be if your engine is versatile enough to handle it, witch is another reason I think that if SP devs/pubs were start branching towards the mmo space it will be the ones designed from the outset as mod able that lead the way.
I have a question. Well first a statement. Lets put aside the fact that GTA, in itself, is a waste of space and everything that gives computer gamers a bad name. Also lets ignore the fact the author prefaced that we should ignore that fact. Umm content is everything and this game is a piece of trash. Also why the hell are you doing an article on a single player thugonomic shoot em criminal fantasy game on a MMO site that, very obviously, is for MMOs.
Now I've watched this game being played. I haven't played it. Don't want to. I know enough about it to know it's not my thing. To compare that piece of dung to a MMO and say it has better immersion just goes to prove that we are bereft of imagination in today's society. That makes me sad.
Hardly, just that there are a lot of stupid parents out there that buy this and let their kids play it. You obviously don't pay attention to the news at all. There are a lot of dumb people out there that definitively believe that violent video games lead to violent behavior. Putting games like this out does not help those trying to defend the game industry.
I agree. GTA5 has a much better world than any MMO released the last decade. However I am not surprised. With the release of the WoW clone after another, the MMO industry stopped creating virtual worlds and instead just on the rails ThemePark games.
And here we are, tons of MMOs to play but not one with a plausible virtual world.
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