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[Column] General: Why GTA5 is Better Than Most MMOs

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Comments

  • KuinnKuinn MestaPosts: 2,093Member
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    I feel sorry for you guys. Set aside your console hate and be a gamer first! This game is amazing.

    I don't hate on consoles, I just hate controller's

     

    Developer's

    Why cant we play console games with a mouse and keyboard?

    Same here, I would be seriously excited about the next gen consoles if I knew that I could play games like GTA, and shooter games with M+KB with PS4. Not to mention to be able to play RTS games to begin with, which is a lost effort with pad.

     

    Definately going to buy this game when it comes to PC. Also definately buying PS4 if they announce serious M+KB support on many titles, my PS3 works as a blu-ray player just fine if that's all the PS4 would be to me :)

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing Editor Berea, OHPosts: 2,357MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by BillMurphy
    And rest assured, that if our online worlds don't strive to become something more like the famed GTA's magnificent cities, we're already doomed.

    And if they do--shoot for or even attempt to contend with 250 million dollar budgets--we're doomed even more quickly.

    Setting an impossibly high bar with your usual gung-ho enthusiasm here, BM.

    The bar should always be high, and reach ever higher. Limitations are just that, until they no longer limit us.

  • RewhymoRewhymo otttawa, ONPosts: 53Member
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    I feel sorry for you guys. Set aside your console hate and be a gamer first! This game is amazing.

    I don't hate on consoles, I just hate controller's

     

    Developer's

    Why cant we play console games with a mouse and keyboard?

    ^^

    This.

    If consoles games were compatible with mouse and keyboard id be more enthusiastic about Consoles. I have GTA V on PS3 simply cause i love anything Rockstar. But PC gaming is the way to go. so i stick to it

     

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,035Member Uncommon

    your last point is BS, the way buildings are just empty shells and you can't go in houses, and you can't even pull off robberies that are worth the time outside of the story is a big problem.

     

    Saying it's better than most MMOs isn't saying much.  It's not better than most elder scrolls games or fallout 3/NV. 

     

    There's a serious lack of content as well.  And half the missions available are just annoying, and involve annoying people that you'd rather kill than save.

     

    People need to calm down about it, the game is great, but it's not a 10.

  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,035Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rewhymo
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    I feel sorry for you guys. Set aside your console hate and be a gamer first! This game is amazing.

    I don't hate on consoles, I just hate controller's

     

    Developer's

    Why cant we play console games with a mouse and keyboard?

    ^^

    This.

    If consoles games were compatible with mouse and keyboard id be more enthusiastic about Consoles. I have GTA V on PS3 simply cause i love anything Rockstar. But PC gaming is the way to go. so i stick to it

     

     

    this makes no sense.  gamepads make movement and the limitation of such feel a lot more natural and realistic.  You want to win by pointing and clicking really?  Come on.

  • SkylightFortressSkylightFortress Amarillo, TXPosts: 34Member

    Bla Bla Bla, I'll tell you why its not better than ANY mmo even the worst of them.... One simple reason: It's not on PC.

    So until Rockstar feel the need to grace us pc gamers with thier "awesome new title" I could care less about GTA 5.

  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitPosts: 872Member
    The 250 million budget is bullshit.

    The only cost those devs would really have to incur are salaries. They have been doing tgis for a while, and have the infrastucture to program in a building etc. maybe a new pc every 4 years, but that does not justify such high costs.

    I want to see an actual balance sheet with cost of items. Obviously salaries would be the highest, but then its a question of how salaries were paid as well. How many were paid bonuses. How is including bonus payments in dev salaries a real figure of the cost?

    Amd the only thing that gta has that i like is the automated npcs that male the world feel alive. Even things like a radio. A police force. Its simple to add to an mmo to have a police doong pattols with npcs in cities. This is why single player games are better than mmos and people might as well play single player games with their friends than playing a mediocre exp to end game aka an mmo, to only begin fun of the limited end game of raids and pvp and that turns into a pvp gear grind.

    If mmos were not online, and comparing that to a single player game its onvious which is terrible and worse.

    I see hope for some games that do not conprimise single player quality like star citizen. Or wild star and devs putting a lot of good ideas into the game and try to make the mmo fit the traditional exp but also keep it interesting. Better than other mmos with a lack of options.

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • Swedish_ChefSwedish_Chef of heroes, MSPosts: 213Member
    Originally posted by Krighton
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    I feel sorry for you guys. Set aside your console hate and be a gamer first! This game is amazing.

    Don't feel sorry for us. We're well aware of the superior nature of our decision. We will not support a platform that perpetuates and reduces overall effort put forth into a game. Our superior machines, peripherals and cooling systems will always be here...waiting for the unrestricted UI, the vast open world, the unbridled processing power required and the team of overly excited developers that know, consoles CHEAPEN the gaming the industry, allows for LAZINESS and SHORTCUTS as a standard. Depressingly  limited open world, and a laughable total player count. Until then, we'll keep watching everything that "could be" and continue gaming with everything that already is.. Better than a console. In every possible way. Because we evolved from Nintendo. That was the gateway, the stepping stone to a better world, more choices, thousands of players and choices. Consoles used to be.. PC is now.

     

    Aaand, the award for the most pretentious, egotistical & pompous post on MMORPG.com goes to...

    Good Lord, what a complete and utter load of absolute tripe & ridiculous, pretentious bullshit. People with your infantile mindset make me ashamed to call myself a PC gamer. I hope you get hit by a truck loaded with PS4's (not killed, just hit, mind you).

    I can honestly say this is the most offensive post I've ever seen on these forums. Get over yourself pal. The only thing laughable here is your own grossly inflated sense of superiority, and I trust I don't need to tell you where to shove that...

  • SkylightFortressSkylightFortress Amarillo, TXPosts: 34Member
    Originally posted by adam_nox
    Originally posted by Rewhymo
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    I feel sorry for you guys. Set aside your console hate and be a gamer first! This game is amazing.

    I don't hate on consoles, I just hate controller's

     

    Developer's

    Why cant we play console games with a mouse and keyboard?

    ^^

    This.

    If consoles games were compatible with mouse and keyboard id be more enthusiastic about Consoles. I have GTA V on PS3 simply cause i love anything Rockstar. But PC gaming is the way to go. so i stick to it

     

     

    this makes no sense.  gamepads make movement and the limitation of such feel a lot more natural and realistic.  You want to win by pointing and clicking really?  Come on.

    That's your opinion, and you can keep it. My opinion is they both work just fine, they are just ment for different people/games. One could say all a controller is is "moving a joystick", how could that be fun. 

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,065Member Uncommon

    Well said, add rpg statics and specialisations and 20 times the size...

     

    who needs crafting and all the other stuff if the world is just plain sensational

     

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • DrakephireDrakephire Fontana, CAPosts: 445Member Uncommon
    This is why I'm terribly afraid for Elder Scrolls Online. I fear that this game is going to completely fail to capture the ES feel for the very reasons you mention Bill.
  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BillMurphy
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by BillMurphy
    And rest assured, that if our online worlds don't strive to become something more like the famed GTA's magnificent cities, we're already doomed.

    And if they do--shoot for or even attempt to contend with 250 million dollar budgets--we're doomed even more quickly.

    Setting an impossibly high bar with your usual gung-ho enthusiasm here, BM.

    The bar should always be high, and reach ever higher. Limitations are just that, until they no longer limit us.

    The funny little thing about goals is the have to be measureable, achievable, and realistic.  Over/under-estimating ones limitations/abilities tends to go a certain way in any meritocracy based organization.  And markets in their own way make judgments on both meritocracy and mediocrity.

     

    EDIT I don't fault modern mmo makers for high bars they may or may not set; I fault them for repeatedly failing to reach the ones they do.

    image
  • AsheramAsheram San Diego, CAPosts: 1,989Member Uncommon
    I bought the game last weekend because toys r us had a 20% off coupon good for everything in the store, and I have to say I am thoroughly enjoying it.
    The gameworld feels more alive than pretty much every mmo I have played, and I don't need 600 players around me to enjoy it,16 is fine by me.
    A to the commenter who is having trouble separating reality from fantasy I feel bad for you, its a game not a life simulator.

    image
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,356Member Uncommon
    I think the article explains it well, I completely agree with everything that was said. Plus I really want to play GTA V, hopefully I'll get it soon.
  • RewhymoRewhymo otttawa, ONPosts: 53Member
    Originally posted by SkylightFortress
    Originally posted by adam_nox
    Originally posted by Rewhymo
    Originally posted by laserit
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    I feel sorry for you guys. Set aside your console hate and be a gamer first! This game is amazing.

    I don't hate on consoles, I just hate controller's

     

    Developer's

    Why cant we play console games with a mouse and keyboard?

    ^^

    This.

    If consoles games were compatible with mouse and keyboard id be more enthusiastic about Consoles. I have GTA V on PS3 simply cause i love anything Rockstar. But PC gaming is the way to go. so i stick to it

     

     

    this makes no sense.  gamepads make movement and the limitation of such feel a lot more natural and realistic.  You want to win by pointing and clicking really?  Come on.

    That's your opinion, and you can keep it. My opinion is they both work just fine, they are just ment for different people/games. One could say all a controller is is "moving a joystick", how could that be fun. 

    with a controller you are limited to your thumbs and index fingers. You could use your middle fingers as well for the R2 and L2 keys but i find they just get in the way. With pc i have the availability of all my fingers. My mouse has multiple keys all over it. With a controller you are more then likely limited to the controls setups that the game provides for you. A lot of times i find myself upset with the control presets that Console games come with as most of them dont fit my game style. With pc i can reconfigure the controls in any way i please. One thing that bothers me a lot is the fact that if i want to use my melee attack i have to take my thumb off of my camera stick. With pc my mouse is my look and even with a basic left click right click and center scroll and click mouse you dont need to take your finger off important keys.

    If im playing on the console i prefer arcade style gaming as the controller is perfectly built for that. While on PC i prefer complex shooters such as Arma 2 and arma 3 as the mouse and keyboard are designed perfectly for shooters.

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Edmonds, WAPosts: 2,356Member Uncommon
    Oh and a lot of people complaining about controllers on the consoles, you can always get an XIM, which basically connects into the console and the controller at the same time and allows you to use your own keyboard and mouse to emulate the controller with customized key binds on the keyboard and things like that. From what I've seen it works really well, except when you use crap controllers that aren't developed by Microsoft or Sony. The only real downside is that you do have to still have a controller plugged in just so it can use that with the keyboard and mouse, but you don't have to touch the controller ever.
  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Rewhymo
    with a controller you are limited to your thumbs and index fingers. You could use your middle fingers as well for the R2 and L2 keys but i find they just get in the way. With pc i have the availability of all my fingers. My mouse has multiple keys all over it. With a controller you are more then likely limited to the controls setups that the game provides for you. A lot of times i find myself upset with the control presets that Console games come with as most of them dont fit my game style. With pc i can reconfigure the controls in any way i please. One thing that bothers me a lot is the fact that if i want to use my melee attack i have to take my thumb off of my camera stick. With pc my mouse is my look and even with a basic left click right click and center scroll and click mouse you dont need to take your finger off important keys.If im playing on the console i prefer arcade style gaming as the controller is perfectly built for that. While on PC i prefer complex shooters such as Arma 2 and arma 3 as the mouse and keyboard are designed perfectly for shooters.
    it really just depends on the game. but more buttons doesn't always mean better control. reminds me of those old cars that had half a dozen levers to steer. there are games that greatly benefit from a kb/mouse and vice versa.
  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Kinda surprised by this article. You'd think that the answer would not only be obvious, but that a staff member from MMORPG.com would have known this for years. This is not a new question, and it does not have a new answer.

    Why do these phenominal single player games have better environments than MMOs?

    Simple:

    1 - They can conserve more of their budget towards things like environment building. Instead of things like security, netcode, server structure, services, etc. etc.

    2 - Worlds change once you introduce 1000s of people into the environment. Why does GTA5 feel like more of a world? Because it doesn't have literally 1000 people all doing the exact same missions. Something you WOULD see if the game didn't have a 16-player cap.

    3 - Because these games have a much lower player cap, they also get more leway in terms of things like size restrictions (making the world larger AND more dense). They can also do things like engineer how the 'other players' behave in the environment to grant the illusion of a living world. This is something MMOs have been trying to do, but often clashes with what 'actual' players end up doing.

    Are there some improvements that can be taken from games as good as GTA5? Absolutely. However, many of these lessons come from games being single-player (or very limited multiplayer), which leads to another problem. This is why more recent MMOs have began to feel more like 'single-player' games. Because in an attempt to improve, they are trying to emulate more of these single player games.

    It's a trade-off. You can't have that perfectly controlled / engineered environment, without making it somewhat limited to the player. You can't have extremely open, player-heavy MMOs without having more chaotic / zergy environments. Maybe there is more of a middle ground between the two. But it will be hard to do without turning the game into more of a lobby experience.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by BMBender
    Originally posted by BillMurphy
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by BillMurphy
    And rest assured, that if our online worlds don't strive to become something more like the famed GTA's magnificent cities, we're already doomed.

    And if they do--shoot for or even attempt to contend with 250 million dollar budgets--we're doomed even more quickly.

    Setting an impossibly high bar with your usual gung-ho enthusiasm here, BM.

    The bar should always be high, and reach ever higher. Limitations are just that, until they no longer limit us.

    The funny little thing about goals is the have to be measureable, achievable, and realistic.  Over/under-estimating ones limitations/abilities tends to go a certain way in any meritocracy based organization.  And markets in their own way make judgments on both meritocracy and mediocrity.

     

    EDIT I don't fault modern mmo makers for high bars they may or may not set; I fault them for repeatedly failing to reach the ones they do.

    Odd. SWTOR spends all of that money on sound, and ... (omgfail!!11one!!1)

    GTA5 spends all of that money on sound, and ... (omgwin!!!11one!!1)

     

    Gamers sure are odd and contradictory ducks sometiimes.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • RewhymoRewhymo otttawa, ONPosts: 53Member
    That is true. like i said i find Arcade style games, i feel in my opinion, are better suited for Controllers. Complex FPS games like arma 2 and arma 3 just have too many keys for controllers. A couple of my friends have tried to macro as many keys into a controller for arma 2 and the best you can achieve is basic infantry stuff. So COD mentallity. And that was vanilla arma 2. They didnt even bother with Arma 2 with the ACE, ACEX, and ACRE mods. I prefer more complex games to arcade games. This is why i cant play the COD series as its to simple and theirs little to know thought process required to actually play.
  • PAL-18PAL-18 AnachronoxPosts: 802Member

    The state of todays MMOs,its sad.

    Anyone who knows how much fun it can be to play with other peeps,its not just the game ,its the connection with other players but when the game does not have that then we have multiplayer platform for single players,which is like planet without the inhabitants(imagine gta without NPCs) ,its not just GTA 5 which is better than most MMOs.

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.
    By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar:http://cyberpunk.net/**

  • Mari2kMari2k rzhz, MNPosts: 371Member

    GTA sucks....

    I dont want open world, I want story and long cut scenes !!!!

    MGS rocks !!!!

  • MiviMivi RomePosts: 80Member Uncommon

    gta5 is not a mmorpg, and can't even be compared to mmorpgs.

    from game design, to  the ingame goals, passing through the methods to get back the investment from the customers. is all different. good graphic and sounds improved AI are not enough.

  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,944Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Rewhymo
    with a controller you are limited to your thumbs and index fingers. You could use your middle fingers as well for the R2 and L2 keys but i find they just get in the way. With pc i have the availability of all my fingers. My mouse has multiple keys all over it. With a controller you are more then likely limited to the controls setups that the game provides for you. A lot of times i find myself upset with the control presets that Console games come with as most of them dont fit my game style. With pc i can reconfigure the controls in any way i please. One thing that bothers me a lot is the fact that if i want to use my melee attack i have to take my thumb off of my camera stick. With pc my mouse is my look and even with a basic left click right click and center scroll and click mouse you dont need to take your finger off important keys.

     

    If im playing on the console i prefer arcade style gaming as the controller is perfectly built for that. While on PC i prefer complex shooters such as Arma 2 and arma 3 as the mouse and keyboard are designed perfectly for shooters.


    it really just depends on the game. but more buttons doesn't always mean better control. reminds me of those old cars that had half a dozen levers to steer. there are games that greatly benefit from a kb/mouse and vice versa.

     

    It's all personal preference

     

    I don't claim superiority of one over the other, I want the choice to control the game with the peripheral of my preference.

     

    When it comes down to it, it's what pisses me of the most about consoles. Their closed ended architecture and Xbox is by far the worst culprit.

     

    A good game is a good game, period, no matter what it's being played with. A better game is one that lets you decide what you want to play with.  

    "If you make an ass out of yourself, there will always be someone to ride you." - Bruce Lee

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,991Member Uncommon
    So basically MMO devs should be striving to deliver more realistic virtual worlds.

    Seems like I might have heard that somewhere before.....

    Oh yeah, I've been saying it like a broken record for about 7 years or so, but Narius would tell I'm wrong.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

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