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Originally posted by Konfess Originally posted by Heretic061 Servers with no battlegrounds or arena's. Bring pvp back to the world instead of instances, lower the stats on gear and AA/paragon system to make your character stronger instead of gear stats. More than 5 talent points. And mana sytem that doesn't give everyone the same amount of mana at a given level
Servers with no battlegrounds or arena's. Bring pvp back to the world instead of instances.
PvP is where the players want it.
lower the stats on gear and AA/paragon system to make your character stronger instead of gear stats.
Dumb the gear down? Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the name of a person asking for MMOs to be dumbed down.
And mana sytem that doesn't give everyone the same amount of mana at a given level
I'm I the only one who can see this person is asking for imbalance & exploits? The talent tree does do this, but not to the degree you will be happy with. what you are looking for is a full order of magnitude or greater in difference? You want to be both OP in DPS and your man pool compared to everyone else.
PVP will happen where the easiest rewards are given, you get almost no Honor for killing players in the world. That's if you can even find them cause there sitting in town the BG que, where you can just lose over and over and over, and still get the gear just for moving your guy every few mins to not get kicked out. People at level cap have no reason to even leave town now just sit there wait for the que to pop. Besides I said specific servers so those like myself who loved how in Vanilla 3 people fighting at Tauren Mill could turn into a 50+ Battle Royale in a matter of minutes and last for hours, that was great fun. Or going out and starting shit at world bosses to make other guilds wipe, ya know the whole point of open world PVP, the way the game originally was that made it so popular in the first place.
As far as the dumbing down the gear? I'm saying make it so the gear is not so insanely overpowered that PvE is boring, from level 10 you can just AOE shit down all day long and never come close to dying, All I'm saying is make the gear weaker, and add an AA exp tree, or a paragon level system after the level cap that you can continue to boost your stats, some reason to send max level characters back out to the real world instead of sitting in Que's in town. (example of pushing open world PVP as well.) The Game is just a lobby game now with a GUI lobby, instead of just a list of names. Also the Gear is str/sta, or sta/int with some hit added in now and then. How could it get any dumber anyway, for fuck sakes a pally that uses mana to tank uses the same gear as a warrior that uses strength and they just give you passsives to make it all better... hell a majority of spells and abilities have been turned into passives to make the game easier for people.
Mana, so allowing me as a healer for example to gear the way I want, maybe I like overhealing, maybe I like to stroke my epeen being the healer in the group who geared myself up for maximum mana and want to heal with my own rotation that I like, oh now I can't do that cause I have to heal the order they want with the mana I'm given. How it is an exploit to stack thousands of int for more mana? I don't want to be OP in DPS as you claim cause I'm a HEALER, DPS classes won't be able to stack that much for mana pool if there gearing for penetration or crit or whatever the hell they need nowadays, I havent played WoW for any length of time in years, just check back now and then to see how things are going or when an expac comes out.
Nothing at all I asked for is dumbing down the game, it is WoW after all and can't be much easier then Blizz already made it. I almost added that I wanted a harsher death penalty than a 30 sec walk back, but I can see that would be the icing on the dumbed down cake.
As far as imbalance and exploits, Im not seeing any exploits with what I've asked, and no matter what people will cry something is imbalanced every time they lose in a fight no matter what. Every class has been the flavor of the month at one point, and every other class cried it was unfair, so they just give each class a patch to be powerful and nerf it later for the new flavor of the month. And many many times it's been asked for Vanilla, pre bg servers, I'm def not alone in that request. I don't even mind if there up to the latest patch just get rid instanced PvP and give level capped players a reason to head back into the world to kill and be killed.
"Tab targeting", also known as auto-attack.
The transition to a free flowing combat system caused me to never want to play an old auto-attack hotkey based MMO ever again. They are so incredibly boring. This is what ruined FFXIV for me; they completely reverted back to an FFXI style game, an auto-attack style game, a WoW style game. I can't stand them anymore.
Treadmills should be removed too, they are a relic of subscription based games to keep people playing. A complete and utter waste of one's time.
Originally posted by deniter Originally posted by Voqar Amazing, I find all 5 suggestions to be completely ridiculous. MMORPGs don't belong on consoles. Consoles ruin PC games/gaming. Tab target is a staple of the genre. Action style is another style, not a better style. Why would they change their core game all of a sudden? Makes zero sense. Gear grind is also a staple of MMORPGs. Without it, there is no reason to play...except... You want more lame PvP? Meh. MMORPG PvP is a joke all around. If you want real competition you should be playing other gaming genres that actually has it. MMORPGs are PvE at the core and no class-based, gear-based, and highly variable game like an MMORPG will ever have any semblance of balance for PvP - and as such, will never be truly competitive. One thing bliz always does in every expac is to mangle their talent system. If they were to undo the lameness and ultra dumbing down introduced in Panda Express and return to something that actually involved a marginal degree of thinking and choice, I might consider playing WoW again. Probably not. But it'd be a maybe instead of a definite no way.
^^^ Pretty much this ^^^
I really hope the article was meant to be a joke rather than a serious write.
And yet all of these things are exactly why everyone is running from it like a blue skinned leper.
You hear the same old "Oh vanilla was so much better" from people. The problem is people don't understand WHY it was better.
RPG's don't need to be a gear grind, they can have other elements in them that keep players coming back.
Dungeons that are hard to get into.
PVP that's meaningful with territory that can be conquered and give an advantage so that people feel they NEED to conquer it.
All the things you keep saying MMORPG's aren't the place for are exactly why games like Eve Online are growing year to year.
Eve Online ALSO had their 10th year anniversary this year. The difference is THEIR game is GROWING.
They don't have a gear grind.
They don't have PVP that's meaningless.
The ideas are already out there and working in games that have been around a long long time, how can you just sit there and deny what's already happening ?
If blizzard wants WOW to stay a game that people want to play, they need to stop catering to the "casual player" and "hardcore arena PVP" crap that has lost them all their subs.
My EVE YouTube Channel
1. Revamp and improve the graphics DRASTICALLY.
"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted. Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world." Hans Margolius
Mr. Fullers Points sound more like stuff an current player would say who is actually quite ok with how things are but has to make 5 points what some ppl might want to get them back; instead of what could bring back some ex-players like me. My 5 Points:
1. player housing
2. deeper, more complex, character building.
3. visual update. At best of everything but at least of the older races. Companys so much smaller than Blizz managed to switch the entire MMO engine from old & ugly to modern (Entropia Universe even 2x now), so too expensive & too complicated are excuses from the cheap and lazy.
4. enhanced crafting. My last crafting knowledge is from wotlk, and there already it sucked. It at least had some specializations in the past (Weaponsmith -> Axespecializaition; etc). But instead of making it more interesting and deeper it got dumped down to no-fun.
5. ... cant think of more.
Sorry, but i can't take this list serious.
These points all change the ENTIRE game and ALL the game stands for.
I for one, would never return if they did all that.
Don't agree with a single item on the list.
Getting rid of tab targeting would turn this into another "twitch" game. You are right to say many have moved this way...so why ruin WoW by joining the others. If you don't like TAB targeting...don't play WoW.
I don't have the reactions to compete in twitch games as I close in on my 50th birthday.
PVP - Meh - no interest in it. PvP = 9 year old griefers and gankers
Loot = Gear Grind - that is the EXACT and PRECISE mechanic that made people want to play this game in the first place. Getting better gear. I wish their was real shoice and variation and a less defined BiS at high level to make more of a difference, but loot? That's exactly what I play this game for.
Vistiting Blizzard? Too busy to travel 1/2 the world for that, I was/am a day one player BTW (European servers0 though I've taken a couple of sabaticals over the years.
Playable on next gen? Why? Ok no real issue with it, but seing how simplistic FF XIV ARR has become to make it console friendly I'm not really on board with that 100%
In fact, looking at your list with PvP, "twitch" action targeting, no gear grind and consoles? Sounds like you might be better off with Call OF Duty or something.
Why change Warcraft in Call Of Duty? There already is Call of Duty - play that instead!
an end to the gear grind?
sorry dude, you are doing it wrong. that's like askin not to have rocket jumps in quake.
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid
and i did it anyway!"
What??? "Get Rid of Tab Targeting"??? That would be the worst mistake they could do and I'm sure they are not doing it. And all the rest of suggestions are on same level. Sure recipe to crash wow.
No doubt silly suggestions that will/should never happen?
I'm however wondering what was purpose of this post? Provocation?
I don't really like any of the things suggested in the OP especially with respect to the tab-targetting. I personally like the tab-targetting because generally there are so many spell effects and other bright pixels going off that it can be hard to otherwise click on mobs rather than on other party members. The only way that no tab-targetting would work is if they remove the flashy graphics of spells and the like but I think that would be a pity since their flashiness is one of the things I like about Blizzard's games (as I am sure many others do as well).
Let's think again about what a tenth anniversary expac should be. Should it be a complete revamp of the game or should it be a continuation, perhaps on a more grandiose scale since it is a big birthday, of what the game already is ? I argue in favour of the latter because if the game gets radically changed it will probably scare off most of the remaining players. Therefore I think that the other aspects given on the OP list should not be a part of it outside of perhaps the vet rewards.
What I would like to see in the upcoming expac outside of more levels and new areas, dungeons, raids :
1) Another race or two, another class are always nice to have. It would be nice to have another pure dps class since a dps/tank and a completely hybrid character class were added to two previous expansions. I am also still in hope for an ogre race for the Horde.
2) Housing would be awesome but I do not think there should be perks related to it or should there be guild halls. I believe that housing should be an outlet for player creativity but giving too many perks that keep people from congregating in the main cities kills the community.
3) Revamp of crafting especially for item stats. I would make crafting more flexible. Instead of only being able to make a couple of items with two different stats every 5 or 10 skill points, I would have a variety of stats on one item. Say at 200 tailoring now you can make some int/spi cloth gloves, you can instead choose what sets of abilities you have on them so now you can make the same gloves with the same look and level but instead you can choose to have spi/sta, int/sta, etc. For the rare purple stuff, they could still have recipe drops but for the usual stuff, I do not see making this change as a big balance problem.
4) More mid-range areas especially at the TBC level. It would be nice to have a new option for levels 60 to 70 and even 70 to 80. It is not that I dislike the old expacs but I am a bit tired of always leveling in Northrend and the Outlands.
5) I would love to see some more RPG elements brought in or brought back in. I miss some of the things that were removed to streamline the game, even though they were little things for the most part. I miss arrows and bullets, soul shards, having to go to my trainer, buying grimoires for pets, etc. If they put back in the need to unlock flightpaths, I do not see why they can't put back in the need for trainers, even if it is just to buy your spells/abilities one time. I would also love to have things like a biography tab for my characters. It is not a serious issue, which is why I put it in at 5th, but it would be really nice the world fleshed out again even if it means it is less smooth.
Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.
Really? No offense MMORPG but that top 5 wishlist is... pretty horrible haha. A good majority I'd NOT want and i don't think most would want, though some I can see not being 'bad' either (aka on console).
None the less I'd say for me personally. Not likely in a specific order, and some elements do interlock with one another but eh.
5. Easy to pick up, hard to master Classes.
Feral DPS (wotlk) ... ah... IMO, the best balanced out DPS class I ever played in any game. Not only was it challenging, it was so rewarding. It seriously made it a great experience attempting to master the rotation and being one of the only ones on my server to do so and be tone of the op dps on daggerspine.
While I can go on about it, I feel the concept of having classes difficult to master has been lost. While they don't need to be as complex as feral dps was then, it would be great to see classes really have some challenge to them, requiring good gameplay to fully maximize damage, giving a notable difference from a good player and one who didn't fully get their rotation/priority. It helps to often promote players getting better when combined with that content they need to work through.
Hey look, one that isn't something that isn't changed for the worst or removed! Seriously, its one thing that wow has lacked and its a bit strange it hasn't really happened. Housing is a good extra activity to waste time on, one a lot of people enjoy. It doesn't need to be that complex, but it just makes things more entertaining to have that option... far more then something like 'pet battles' I feel (not that its a bad thing either mind you).
3. Meaningful Progression
Gear Grind. That term use to never be described as a negative until suddenly gear became the holy graal in 'you need this to do that'. You use to gear grind, not through 'doing a daily' or other things like that, but rather through progressing through a raid. It made the journey a challenge, one which rewarded you with gear but it was about learning the fights and over-coming a challenge. That has all but dried out and turned into absolutely nothing. Its just a joke, raids hold no meaning. People aren't leaning to get good since they have nothing to challenge them or have a NEED to get good.
2. A Talent Tree.
Seriously, why would you take out one of the few elements that give you a sense of a reward for tedious leveling? Lacking the talent tree only gives a lack of feeling of customization and 'dumbs down' the process of working with a character. This is by far one of the WORST changes I seen as a whole. While not my top detail (as in I could maybe live with this bad decision with the above) its still a horrible thing to have lacking in a game playing next to Cookie cutter 1 and 2 with no real chance to create unique builds.
If you want to claim "But its all reduced to 1 or 2 builds anyways" see the game Rift and how it CAN be done right and how that is not a valid argument. Hell, look back to previous WoW builds and see that there were tons of different builds designed for different activities. Sure, not that crazy in each design from one another but there was variety for sure in what is chosen and when.
1. Challenging Content...
Seriously, the game needs some sort of challenge rather then a snooze fest, one that rewards you for playing good and doesn't give a free ride through. There is 0 reason to provide effort in the game. It was quite bad in Wotlk when I could gear up my shaman in a week, but its EVEN WORST now. Its just a complete joke now when I know my ex, a woman who was NEVER hardcore into gaming though played the game a lot, complains she 'did everything' and 'has nothing to do or work for'. Its sad.
I know it never will happen, Blizzard has shown they feel that dumbing down the game attracts more (which if dropping subs show, it loses more then it gains by a lot). Truthfully, I can wish all I want but considering how much is wrong with wow right now, theres so little chance for me to return to the game, particularly when games like Rift exist that execute things vastly better.
No tab targeting is the most stupid idea ever. Do people even like no tab target games? I can't think of any that have done well? Tab target rules!
Also the gear grind is what keeps WoW popular, it keeps people playing. Games without the gear grind (GW2) get boring fast.
Next you'll be saying get rid of the trinity.
What I want to see in WoW -
1.) Player Housing.
2.) Non combat activities (Farming, cattle upkeep, instruments etc.)
3.) Profession's giving more exp (So you can level solely through professions.)
4.) Mounted combat.
5.) Balanced PvP (maybe battleground/arena types like GW2's structured PvP where everyone has equal gear, so it comes down to class skill rather than gear.)
Does the guy who wrote this article even like MMO's?
Well apart from that, I would like to see new models.
Originally posted by darkedone02 1. Player Housing - Crafters and Quests (daily's as well) be able to get furniture and other decoratives and additions for our houses, all crafts should be able to add in certain decorations to choose from. 2. RTS - RPG PvP - Similar to Natural Selection 2 and Savage: Battle of Newerth, and other RTS/FPS/RPG games out there, it's time to bring this back! This PvP battleground maps allow players to vote/select a chosen player to become the commander of their team, commanders has access to build npc units and siege weapons for players to use, and provide research to improve their army and units, etd. The goal to victory is to bring ruin to the enemy HQ's, game last for an 160 minutes, once times expired, the score of who done the most damage wins. 3. More Lore, More Story, More cutscenes - One thing I love about pandaria is the story on the game and the massive lore we get from the various of races, and the many things that was escalated. Now I wish to see twice as much on this to fill us in on what could possibly on the next unknown land that we will soon embarked on. 4. Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor Post-MoP - The cataclysm as ended and so soon the events that has happened in MoP, now the land have been regenerated and I want to see the old leveling content change again, desolance has fully grown from a wasteland to a forest, certain Pandarians decided to migrate to the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor on certain settlements, and other possible storylines to improve and see the restoration of the cataclyism... I want to see changes in the burning crusade 1-20 places as well and silithus. 5. Raid Finder and Dungeon Finder Improvement - Finally allow me to select to join a fresh run or a currently running dungeon, so we don't have to miss out on content and don't have to do content we have already done.
I like your suggestions very much. Great post !
Deeper crafting system
Deeper financial system. Crafted items that are actually needed - acknowledgement that the player base is very mature (in terms of character progression at least) and that currently the crafting and finances are there only to dump unwanted crafted items. Everyone has a stable of characters these days covering every profession and gathering task. No one "needs" the AH at all really, they could swap to an alt and gather/craft whatever they wanted, the only reason it's used at all is laziness/convenience. Bring in Blue prints, more variations on weapons and armor made at the crafting, Make this stuff very rare. These days I can level a 90 from 0 to 600 gathering in an evening - that's mining. Skinning and herb even quicker. Nothing should be that quick! You'll even make a few thousand gold while ytou are doing it if you sell the stuff you gather.
Talent Tree Returned with good viable options at every level that work for different circumstances or play styles (Rift does this) this in turn will lead to..
End of definitive "BiS" for every class/job
Crowd control returned as a stand alone viable extra to the trinity (making it a quadrilogy I suppose) leg, required in dungeons
What we don't want is the gibberish the writer put in this article turning WoW into a CoD clone (free targeting, PvP, consoles..if that's not CoD I don't know what is..what an idiot)
Sounds to me like you want the game to be like GW2 which I might add many people grew very tired of very fast because there is no progression in that game.
If you look at the current success of FFXIV and the continued success of WoW one would realize that the majority of MMO players enjoy Tab targeting, Loot driven games. I for one, quit GW2 for FFXIV and loving it. Also, If you find the gear grind in WoW to be to much you really shouldn't be playing MMORPG's the gring in GW2 is worse than WoW right now. You can level and be raid ready in ONE WEEK.
As for what they should add IMO to get some of the vet players like myself back would be.
Do away with LFR
New Character Models
Give players a sense of progression again. TBC style
Otherwise keep it like it is, they have held 8+ million subs for a long time now
Originally posted by tawess Not to be rude but this was the most ill-concived thing i have read in a long time. So what Fuller is asking for is a complete redesign of World of Warcraft... I seem to remember another game that did this... It did not turn out very well. 5: As Fuller says this is a lot of work and would in my opinion make the NGE look like a fart in space. In essence it would be a new game that only wore the old WoW´s skin. Again i point towards the NGE. 4: Nice idea but way to much work for such a limited customer base. Heck if they did not do it for MoP i am pretty sure it will never be done. Like it or not but the people who like PvP all the time is a very small faction in the grand scheme of things. 3: Or it could see them plunge even further down as people felt no real reward for progressing in content. Also i do not see any example or explanation for what would replace gear as a reward that is strong enough to promote people to come back. 2: Yeah... Because vet rewards have worked so well in other games... It has not breed an extra layer of elitism or malcontent from people who "come in late". Nor does it create pressure to continue to come up with great rewards. 1: Now i support this idea (if nothing just to see the "vets" flip their collective lid as the UI get simplified to fit the console 8 button frame.) But it is a bit to late... About 5 years or so to late, again doing such a costly project would be very risky especially as no one knows were the MMO market is going right now. It is a fair bet to say that Titan.. what ever it is will go to consoles too (or be console exclusive) Now what i hope for in a 10 year celebration is perhaps some "retro" events like gates(the opening.. not the entire thing) or the WotLK pre-event. Some nice pet or a mount, or more realistly a cloak or a tabard. It would be cool if they made a vanity set of gear with some nice retro look but updated quality texture wise that once could earn form doing some easy event or task, enough to pull people back but not so hard that it is any real work... More for the lulz.
I like this guy. He gets it. I fail to see any reason WoW would overhaul anything.
Add more to the existing formula - probably.