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The reason I think FFXIV is going to fail: Staying power

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  • RyowulfRyowulf Greensburg, PAPosts: 668Member

    How has GW2 failed? Or Neverwinter for that matter. Tera is still around, but the sub (wow like) game warhammer is gone.  Just saying something, even if its said a lot doesn't make it true.

    I don't even understand the point.  FF is VERY casual. You can level to 50 faster than any of the games you dislike.  FF is a themepark.  

    It needs people to stay and play, but because the game is so casual it appears to be cutting its own throat.  If anything a sub game should be adding timesinks. It should take months or longer to hit the level cap.

  • echolynfanecholynfan Lancaster, PAPosts: 681Member
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by echolynfan
    Originally posted by Netspook

    I also think this game is going to fail. I'm not going to crit you with a wall of text explaining why, because it can be summed up with very few words:

    Though this game looks great, it's just incredibly boring.

    Simple as that.

    Are you old enough to remember playing Pong? Now THAT was boring - FF ARR is NOT boring...at all...not even a little bit.

     

    Pong was innovative for it's time. FFXIV is not.

    Sigh...no sense of hurmor...

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • Birdy1988Birdy1988 adf, MSPosts: 14Member
    Originally posted by Ryowulf

    How has GW2 failed? Or Neverwinter for that matter. Tera is still around, but the sub (wow like) game warhammer is gone.  Just saying something, even if its said a lot doesn't make it true.

    I don't even understand the point.  FF is VERY casual. You can level to 50 faster than any of the games you dislike.  FF is a themepark.  

    It needs people to stay and play, but because the game is so casual it appears to be cutting its own throat.  If anything a sub game should be adding timesinks. It should take months or longer to hit the level cap.

    Sigh, fed up of people lying to me.

    I maxxed 80 and 99% map on Guild Wars 2 in under a week. I then had nothing from a PvE perspective WORTH DOING.

    that is a giant fail. Aesthetic gear? so friggin what most of the dungeons and bosses are so poorly designed and it was hard finding groups. because people felt the same way.

     

    NWN was mediocre in every faucet.

    Tera ... ugh. nice flashy graphics and action... horrible setting..

    Max level Jedi Shadow in under a week.

    Max Level NWN character in 4 days.

    Tera wasn't worth finishing.

    Hell you can go 1-90 in wow in 2-3 days.

     

    NO MODERN MMOS LEVELING IS LONGER THAN A WEEK.

     

    FF is so casual? have you done titan hard mode? have you done binding coil of bahamut? have you got all the classes that boost your main class leveled up? done the crafting?

    4 weeks time 4 more hard modes, a 24 man raid, new primal, PvP, treasure hunting.

     

    sorry mate, but guild wars 2, NWN and SWTOR had far less challenge on release.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by echolynfan
    Originally posted by Netspook

    I also think this game is going to fail. I'm not going to crit you with a wall of text explaining why, because it can be summed up with very few words:

    Though this game looks great, it's just incredibly boring.

    Simple as that.

    Are you old enough to remember playing Pong? Now THAT was boring - FF ARR is NOT boring...at all...not even a little bit.

     

    Pong was innovative for it's time. FFXIV is not.

    As a video game, Pong was not innovative. It was a video game console released in the mid 70s for home use but, it hadn't changed much from it's earliest introduction (forgive me if my memory is off but I can't be bothered to Google this, feel free to correct me though) in a Wolds Fair from the late 40s on a Cathode Ray Tube device. Point is, Pong was pretty much the same video game unchanged for 30 years. Talk about your "clone"

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Birdy1988
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    I simply supported what djnexus said and something which is well known in MMO world. But you reacted as if he was talking in some obsecure language that you do not understand.

     

    Aaaand there you go again. More vague statements with nothing to back them up, while acting like you want to drop the subject. If that's the case why keep making claims? Just drop it then, is it this hard for you?

    You said eve was actually challenging yet nothing to back up said statement (its as if there is a pattern here). I called you out on it, and to this point you haven't actually given anything to support such claim. Up until now all you have given us is more vague statements like the colored part and "you just dont get it".

    You don't have to back up the statements you made but don't get mad when people call you out on it.

     

    I simply stated that it is a popular opinion and unless you have been living under a rock over the years i am 100% sure you know that too. However, you agree with that popular opinion or not is another matter. If you think you can convince people into thinking that FFXIV is more challenging than EVE than you are  in minority. And i doubt that other than hardcore FFXIV fans as yourself, anyone is going to agree with you.

    Simplistic single player storyline gameplay from lvl 1 to 50 devoid of any challenge, most mind numbing, generic and trivial side quests, watered down crafting and gathering from 1.0 (and i thought 1.0 was bad in comparison to FFXI), no danger in exploration within a small shoe sized world. The only challenge comes at hard modes once you hit 50 which is akin of typical themepark MMO model. Easy ride from lvl 1 to level cap and then throw in some hard mode dungeons... RIFT did that quite successfully already.

    FFXIV is just copy pasting the same themepark formula but somehow it is more challenging than EVE? if i use that logic than i guess every themepark MMO since days of WOW is more challenging and complex than Eve.

    Its amazing that you are even arguing about this with a straight face.

    I find it ironic someone complaining about trivial quests when EVE's missions are basically for your first 1000 hours "go here, shoot these ships, deliver something, watch your ship move at 1 mile per hour as a boring drone of an a.i voice goes "warp engaged" over and over and over.

    Call me old, wiser or jsut not in "teen goggles" anymore, but time is valuable, the olds chool mmo's didn't care about my time or life. modern ones do

    so yes I strolled to level 50, had decent story, did some nice dungeons on the way, now I am challenged with a pretty damn difficult end game.

    so when I say this, I say it sincerely that I and most people who value their time and life couldn't give a damn if we are not punished for playing a GAME over and over from level 1 by cheap zone difficulty or players thinking they are hip-hop-badasses for killing people alot newer/weaker than them.

    if you don't like theme parks then why the hell are you here?

    You don't really have to go this far, everyone with some sense in them can figure out the irony in what this guy is saying. His posts do all the talking.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by echolynfan
    Originally posted by Netspook

    I also think this game is going to fail. I'm not going to crit you with a wall of text explaining why, because it can be summed up with very few words:

    Though this game looks great, it's just incredibly boring.

    Simple as that.

    Are you old enough to remember playing Pong? Now THAT was boring - FF ARR is NOT boring...at all...not even a little bit.

     

    Pong was innovative for it's time. FFXIV is not.

    QFT

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yizle
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by echolynfan
    Originally posted by Netspook

    I also think this game is going to fail. I'm not going to crit you with a wall of text explaining why, because it can be summed up with very few words:

    Though this game looks great, it's just incredibly boring.

    Simple as that.

    Are you old enough to remember playing Pong? Now THAT was boring - FF ARR is NOT boring...at all...not even a little bit.

     

    Pong was innovative for it's time. FFXIV is not.

    QFT

    Cuz all the innovative games were runaway blockbusters right?

  • echolynfanecholynfan Lancaster, PAPosts: 681Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Yizle
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by echolynfan
    Originally posted by Netspook

    I also think this game is going to fail. I'm not going to crit you with a wall of text explaining why, because it can be summed up with very few words:

    Though this game looks great, it's just incredibly boring.

    Simple as that.

    Are you old enough to remember playing Pong? Now THAT was boring - FF ARR is NOT boring...at all...not even a little bit.

     

    Pong was innovative for it's time. FFXIV is not.

    QFT

    Cuz all the innovative games were runaway blockbusters right?

    I still can't believe people took my Pong comment seriously...it was a joke - but FF ARR is NOT = best MMO I've played in 5 years. The crafting system is definitely superior to everything that has come out in years. 

    Also - I'm still waiting for someone to tell me of an MMO that is out right now that is better in this regard. 

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
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  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
     

    You don't really have to go this far, everyone with some sense in them can figure out the irony in what this guy is saying. His posts do all the talking.

    Everyone with some sense in them wouldn't even compare FFXIV with EVE in terms of challenge and complexity. You are not even trying anymore. 

     

    Originally posted by Birdy1988

     

    I find it ironic someone complaining about trivial quests when EVE's missions are basically for your first 1000 hours "go here, shoot these ships, deliver something, watch your ship move at 1 mile per hour as a boring drone of an a.i voice goes "warp engaged" over and over and over.

    Call me old, wiser or jsut not in "teen goggles" anymore, but time is valuable, the olds chool mmo's didn't care about my time or life. modern ones do

    so yes I strolled to level 50, had decent story, did some nice dungeons on the way, now I am challenged with a pretty damn difficult end game.

    so when I say this, I say it sincerely that I and most people who value their time and life couldn't give a damn if we are not punished for playing a GAME over and over from level 1 by cheap zone difficulty or players thinking they are hip-hop-badasses for killing people alot newer/weaker than them.

    if you don't like theme parks then why the hell are you here?

     

    All those missions about go there and shoot these things are not trivial because there is always one important element to it....other players. Unless you want to spend rest of your gameplay time in high security zone that is your choice but then again you are still not safe and it is still not trivial. 

    But hey good job on picking up on small feature from a huge MMO like EVE to make your point. Just shows how much time you actually spent playing EVE. What about FFXIV? other than hard modes which come at 50 what else is there which makes FFXIV challenging and complex? this is a typical themepark formula and EVE is anything but typical. EVE gives you a  choice from the get go...what choice or freedom do players have in FFXIV? you follow a single path to lvl 50 and then you start doing hard modes. FFXIV is as linear as themepark MMOS can get.

    I find it ironic that you talk about people who value their time and life and yet brag about hard modes at lvl 50 and the amount of time sink that goes into grinding those every single day to get one peice of shiny gear. 

    Also i would appreciate if you stop assuming. Only because people dislike FFXIV doesn't mean they dislike entire themepark genre. I still enjoy Rift and WOW a lot..and it already did hard modes bigger and better. FFXIV is like a little toddler trying to copy the grown ups and failing so far.

     

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
     

    You don't really have to go this far, everyone with some sense in them can figure out the irony in what this guy is saying. His posts do all the talking.

    Everyone with some sense in them wouldn't even compare FFXIV with EVE in terms of challenge and complexity. You are not even trying anymore. 

     

    Originally posted by Birdy1988

     

    I find it ironic someone complaining about trivial quests when EVE's missions are basically for your first 1000 hours "go here, shoot these ships, deliver something, watch your ship move at 1 mile per hour as a boring drone of an a.i voice goes "warp engaged" over and over and over.

    Call me old, wiser or jsut not in "teen goggles" anymore, but time is valuable, the olds chool mmo's didn't care about my time or life. modern ones do

    so yes I strolled to level 50, had decent story, did some nice dungeons on the way, now I am challenged with a pretty damn difficult end game.

    so when I say this, I say it sincerely that I and most people who value their time and life couldn't give a damn if we are not punished for playing a GAME over and over from level 1 by cheap zone difficulty or players thinking they are hip-hop-badasses for killing people alot newer/weaker than them.

    if you don't like theme parks then why the hell are you here?

     

    All those missions about go there and shoot these things are not trivial because there is always one important element to it....other players. Unless you want to spend rest of your gameplay time in high security zone that is your choice but then again you are still not safe and it is still not trivial. 

    But hey good job on picking up on small feature from a huge MMO like EVE to make your point. Just shows how much time you actually spent playing EVE. What about FFXIV? other than hard modes which come at 50 what else is there which makes FFXIV challenging and complex? this is a typical themepark formula and EVE is anything but typical. EVE gives you a  choice from the get go...what choice or freedom do players have in FFXIV? you follow a single path to lvl 50 and then you start doing hard modes. FFXIV is as linear as themepark MMOS can get.

    I find it ironic that you talk about people who value their time and life and yet brag about hard modes at lvl 50 and the amount of time sink that goes into grinding those every single day to get one peice of shiny gear. 

    Also i would appreciate if you stop assuming. Only because people dislike FFXIV doesn't mean they dislike entire themepark genre. I still enjoy Rift and WOW a lot..and it already did hard modes bigger and better. FFXIV is like a little toddler trying to copy the grown ups and failing so far.

     

    Exactly what you have been doing to FF14 over and over and over and over. Oh, and EVE.......it's not really that huge.It's more of a financial success than a success as a great game. If it wasn't for CCP ingeniously figuring out how to exploit the lower to mediocre players, the game's unique active playerbase would probably be lucky to break into the high 5/ low 6 figure in population. The vast majority of their claim to half million subs is all PLEX that funnles huge advantages in the form of those extra accounts to the big boys. By most current standards, based on it's population (not subs) it's a niche game.

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     

    Exactly what you have been doing to FF14 over and over and over and over. Oh, and EVE.......it's not really that huge.It's more of a financial success than a success as a great game. If it wasn't for CCP ingeniously figuring out how to exploit the lower to mediocre players, the game's unique active playerbase would probably be lucky to break into the high 5/ low 6 figure in population. The vast majority of their claim to half million subs is all PLEX that funnles huge advantages in the form of those extra accounts to the big boys. By most current standards, based on it's population (not subs) it's a niche game.

    Am i surprised you are trying to downplay the success of EVE? nope.  And nope it is not exactly the same thing. If people who with straight face are saying that FFXIV is more challenging than EVE then they must also believe that every single themepark MMO since WOW is in same threshold of challenge.

    EVE on whole is a complex game so it is just dishonest to pick up something like 'missions' and to try to disregard rest of the game on basis of that. Where as in FFXIV like every other single themepark MMO that came before it the only little challenge that comes is in hard modes. So please pray tell how it is exactly the same thing. 

     

  • neobahamut20neobahamut20 ste-julie, QCPosts: 336Member
    Originally posted by Cymdai

     

    I'd like to read your opinions on this. Share your name, your levels, your server, etc, and let me know what you think. Do you believe FFXIV has the staying power of other MMO's? if so, why, and if not, why not?

     

    No. Uninstalled beta because I was told to "look forward to it" when they basically told the beta people to shut up and take the game they were giving us. What you have is what they think the players "want".

    Boycotting EA. Why? They suck, even moreso since 2008.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

     

    Exactly what you have been doing to FF14 over and over and over and over. Oh, and EVE.......it's not really that huge.It's more of a financial success than a success as a great game. If it wasn't for CCP ingeniously figuring out how to exploit the lower to mediocre players, the game's unique active playerbase would probably be lucky to break into the high 5/ low 6 figure in population. The vast majority of their claim to half million subs is all PLEX that funnles huge advantages in the form of those extra accounts to the big boys. By most current standards, based on it's population (not subs) it's a niche game.

    Am i surprised you are trying to downplay the success of EVE? nope.  And nope it is not exactly the same thing. If people who with straight face are saying that FFXIV is more challenging than EVE then they must also believe that every single themepark MMO since WOW is in same threshold of challenge.

    EVE on whole is a complex game so it is just dishonest to pick up something like 'missions' and to try to disregard rest of the game on basis of that. Where as in FFXIV like every other single themepark MMO that came before it the only little challenge that comes is in hard modes. So please pray tell how it is exactly the same thing. 

     

    I did not say EVE was (or wasn't) more challenging than FF14. I said that EVE was not as big a game as people want to make it out to be. Since you said it was HUGE. It's not.

    I am and I am not downplaying EVE's success at least not financially. 500K subs is no laughing matter. However, as a game, the active player base does not reflect this success. Its business model is far more successful that the game itself. But that's something else altogether.

  • drivendawndrivendawn montgomery, ALPosts: 1,239Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by neobahamut20
    Originally posted by Cymdai

     

    I'd like to read your opinions on this. Share your name, your levels, your server, etc, and let me know what you think. Do you believe FFXIV has the staying power of other MMO's? if so, why, and if not, why not?

     

    No. Uninstalled beta because I was told to "look forward to it" when they basically told the beta people to shut up and take the game they were giving us. What you have is what they think the players "want".

    Hey, that's ok they can't please everyone some players will like it some won't. Hope you find the game your looking for

  • CymdaiCymdai Raleigh, NCPosts: 1,083Member

    Reasons I won't be subscribing after October:

     

    1) My blacklist is 3x the size of my friendslist (and growing) because there's no community.

    In order to have any kind of meaningful interaction with people, you're going to have to constantly update your blacklist. The rampant, unchecked gold-seller spamming via the shout, yell, and say channels are intolerable. Even when you handle it that way, you're going to get /tells from them every single day. Blacklistling isn't even effective, because if you blacklist one, you can rest assured that a new one will take it's place to /tell you within 30 minutes. This has completely and utterly ruined interaction and the community of the game. It makes bolstering your FC's ranks even more intolerable, as there's no real way to advertise other than by running dungeons with people who are on your server.

     

    2) The end-game is literally non-existent.

    For a game that's released twice, there's simply no meat to it. The end-game consists of running Amdapor Keep and Castrum Meridanum dozens of times over for tomes. It's not only not challenging, it's not fun either. Bahamut's Coil is ok, but even then, it's not that long, and the timer on it insures that you can't run it as often as you'd like. Furthermore, when you hit end-game, you need Mythology tomes; however, the hard cap on them (300 seals a week) prevents you from being able to progress at your own pace for no reason. In a game that has no end-game, the notion that even further limitations on the already-absent end-game is simple lunacy. You have nothing to do except farm seals, and wait. Expecting people to want to level other classes and crafts = / = meaningful content.

     

    3) End-game crafting is essentially worthless.

    Congratulations; you got your craft to 50! Time to crank out that epic tier 2 gear...!

    ....except it isn't that epic. In fact, regular Tier 2 gryphonskin gear is actually substantially worse than the level 60 AK gear that drops. You might wonder why that's a problem. Well, since you need to run that dungeon countless times for mythology and philosophy, you're going to be getting this gear more than likely anyway. Even if you are unfortunate, you're going to be able to buy Darklight Gear with your seals, which is actually a better investment of your time anyway in terms of cost-effectiveness and stat gains. Add to the fact that you'll need roughly 36 Animal fats, which is over 3600 seals, to make your items T2, and you'll see why this is stupid. You could run AK/CM 50 times and have enough seals to buy all the required ingredients to craft T2 gear... or you could have the entire darklight set, which is better, and doesn't require you to also have leveled a craft. You should be able to see why this is problematic.

     

    4) The game is bleeding people already.

    When I started the game, I formed up an FC and a linkshell really early on in the open beta phase. We recruited roughly 100 members for our linkshell, and 70 for our free company. Before the end of the free trial, the LS is down to roughly 28 members, and the FC is down to roughly 20. There's horrible retention by any standards, and we're talking about the first month! Whether it's latency issues on the HM Titan fight (drove away some folks), the feel that the game is similar to vanilla WoW (drove away some more folks), the monotony of fate grinding (drove away even more folks), or the braindead simplicity of low levels, the game isn't holding people's interests the way a new, fresh MMO usually does.

     

    5) There's not enough content to justify waiting for more/subscribing.

    While I realize that the Crystal Tower, Player Housing, and PvP are all on the horizon... realistically, we're at least a month away from that patch, if not longer. What reason is there to subscribe for another 1-2 months when there's essentially nothing to do? To gear up further? I could technically already be totally geared if it weren't for the mythology cap, as could many other players. I'm exhausted of running CM/AK, and I'm basically at the end of BC turn 4; so what else is there to do? I have my combat class leveled and geared, and 3 crafts maxed out and geared. I managed to essentially "complete" the game 4 times in a month.

     

    For a game that has essentially released twice, I feel as though most people who are critical of the game have given it a fair chance. I can't expect 2.1 to be some miracle patch. It took nearly 3 years to fix FFXIV into a state of being a working product. It's had countless patches and adjustments and additions to it in that time. Now that it's been released, it's a playable, functional game. But it's really not that fun now, it's not that challenging, it's not that deep, and it's not that fresh. Maybe it'll become all of those things in time, but as a person who has been listening to fan-made excuses for nearly a year ("It's only in beta 1, it'll get better.", "It's only open beta, give it more time.", "It gets harder at higher level", "It gets harder at end-game", "It'll be better next patch.", "It'll be better after it's first expansion.") I just don't care to hear it anymore. There will be newer, fresher games coming out soon enough, and I can't justify sticking around on the hope that this game will become what I wanted it to be.

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cymdai

    Reasons I won't be subscribing after October:

     

    1) My blacklist is 3x the size of my friendslist (and growing) because there's no community.

    In order to have any kind of meaningful interaction with people, you're going to have to constantly update your blacklist. The rampant, unchecked gold-seller spamming via the shout, yell, and say channels are intolerable. Even when you handle it that way, you're going to get /tells from them every single day. Blacklistling isn't even effective, because if you blacklist one, you can rest assured that a new one will take it's place to /tell you within 30 minutes. This has completely and utterly ruined interaction and the community of the game. It makes bolstering your FC's ranks even more intolerable, as there's no real way to advertise other than by running dungeons with people who are on your server.

     

    2) The end-game is literally non-existent.

    For a game that's released twice, there's simply no meat to it. The end-game consists of running Amdapor Keep and Castrum Meridanum dozens of times over for tomes. It's not only not challenging, it's not fun either. Bahamut's Coil is ok, but even then, it's not that long, and the timer on it insures that you can't run it as often as you'd like. Furthermore, when you hit end-game, you need Mythology tomes; however, the hard cap on them (300 seals a week) prevents you from being able to progress at your own pace for no reason. In a game that has no end-game, the notion that even further limitations on the already-absent end-game is simple lunacy. You have nothing to do except farm seals, and wait. Expecting people to want to level other classes and crafts = / = meaningful content.

     

    3) End-game crafting is essentially worthless.

    Congratulations; you got your craft to 50! Time to crank out that epic tier 2 gear...!

    ....except it isn't that epic. In fact, regular Tier 2 gryphonskin gear is actually substantially worse than the level 60 AK gear that drops. You might wonder why that's a problem. Well, since you need to run that dungeon countless times for mythology and philosophy, you're going to be getting this gear more than likely anyway. Even if you are unfortunate, you're going to be able to buy Darklight Gear with your seals, which is actually a better investment of your time anyway in terms of cost-effectiveness and stat gains. Add to the fact that you'll need roughly 36 Animal fats, which is over 3600 seals, to make your items T2, and you'll see why this is stupid. You could run AK/CM 50 times and have enough seals to buy all the required ingredients to craft T2 gear... or you could have the entire darklight set, which is better, and doesn't require you to also have leveled a craft. You should be able to see why this is problematic.

     

    4) The game is bleeding people already.

    When I started the game, I formed up an FC and a linkshell really early on in the open beta phase. We recruited roughly 100 members for our linkshell, and 70 for our free company. Before the end of the free trial, the LS is down to roughly 28 members, and the FC is down to roughly 20. There's horrible retention by any standards, and we're talking about the first month! Whether it's latency issues on the HM Titan fight (drove away some folks), the feel that the game is similar to vanilla WoW (drove away some more folks), the monotony of fate grinding (drove away even more folks), or the braindead simplicity of low levels, the game isn't holding people's interests the way a new, fresh MMO usually does.

     

    5) There's not enough content to justify waiting for more/subscribing.

    While I realize that the Crystal Tower, Player Housing, and PvP are all on the horizon... realistically, we're at least a month away from that patch, if not longer. What reason is there to subscribe for another 1-2 months when there's essentially nothing to do? To gear up further? I could technically already be totally geared if it weren't for the mythology cap, as could many other players. I'm exhausted of running CM/AK, and I'm basically at the end of BC turn 4; so what else is there to do? I have my combat class leveled and geared, and 3 crafts maxed out and geared. I managed to essentially "complete" the game 4 times in a month.

     

    For a game that has essentially released twice, I feel as though most people who are critical of the game have given it a fair chance. I can't expect 2.1 to be some miracle patch. It took nearly 3 years to fix FFXIV into a state of being a working product. It's had countless patches and adjustments and additions to it in that time. Now that it's been released, it's a playable, functional game. But it's really not that fun now, it's not that challenging, it's not that deep, and it's not that fresh. Maybe it'll become all of those things in time, but as a person who has been listening to fan-made excuses for nearly a year ("It's only in beta 1, it'll get better.", "It's only open beta, give it more time.", "It gets harder at higher level", "It gets harder at end-game", "It'll be better next patch.", "It'll be better after it's first expansion.") I just don't care to hear it anymore. There will be newer, fresher games coming out soon enough, and I can't justify sticking around on the hope that this game will become what I wanted it to be.

    1. If your community is bad, it's because you made it that way.

    2. I'm certain you can find end game activities that need to be done. I just don't think you want to. It's one thing to say you don't like your options, it's another to ignore what's there and say it's non existent.

    3. End game crafted items that are HQ'd and over-melded rival the best items in the game.

    4. I still sat in queues twice this week. So it needs to bleed a few more people for me to be happy.

    5. This is your 2nd point re-worded and the same answer applies.

     

    It's fine if this isn't your type of game. But for the type of game it is, and for those like myself who like it, this game is great and it's a lot of fun. Certainly worth subscribing to from my PoV. It's not from yours. I could respect your opinion if you didn't make stuff up. Just because you didn't like the end game, doesn't mean others won't and therefore make the false claim that it's non existant. Or to pick Basic crafted items and say they don't compare to endgame items without taking into consideration that you can improve on that item and make it much better. It's fine that you don't like the game, but at least be more accurate in your criticism. To the uninitiated looking at your posts, they would not be making a decision based on inaccurate information.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Cymdai
    End-game crafting is essentially worthless.Congratulations; you got your craft to 50! Time to crank out that epic tier 2 gear...!....except it isn't that epic. In fact, regular Tier 2 gryphonskin gear is actually substantially worse than the level 60 AK gear that drops. You might wonder why that's a problem. Well, since you need to run that dungeon countless times for mythology and philosophy, you're going to be getting this gear more than likely anyway. Even if you are unfortunate, you're going to be able to buy Darklight Gear with your seals, which is actually a better investment of your time anyway in terms of cost-effectiveness and stat gains. Add to the fact that you'll need roughly 36 Animal fats, which is over 3600 seals, to make your items T2, and you'll see why this is stupid. You could run AK/CM 50 times and have enough seals to buy all the required ingredients to craft T2 gear... or you could have the entire darklight set, which is better, and doesn't require you to also have leveled a craft. You should be able to see why this is problematic.

    Please stop misrepresenting the crafting community. Its ok you're not a crafter. Its fine you don't like it, its not for you. But those of us who are dedicated crafters in mmos know this is a gem. There is more than enough endgame for any serious crafter. Tired of people who claim to be a crafter whine about no best in slot at endgame. You missed the point, really.

  • CymdaiCymdai Raleigh, NCPosts: 1,083Member

    Geezer, if you wanna disagree, fine. But don't act like I'm making stuff up because you disagree with it.

    http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2197514/

    There's my character; where is yours? If you're going to lecture me on how much crafting there is, how useful it is, etc, I better see you with more than 3 50+ crafts. If not, then kindly step off with talking about how much there is to do. I've done it; there's not that much to do.

    And if you need proof that end-game doesn't exist, feel free to check basically any thread. There simply isn't. It's blatant lying to pretend that there's more to do for your main job/craft other than run AK/Cm, or gear for BC. That's it. That is 100% of the end-game. Anything else is blatant nonsense.

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cymdai

    Geezer, if you wanna disagree, fine. But don't act like I'm making stuff up because you disagree with it.

    http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/2197514/

    There's my character; where is yours? If you're going to lecture me on how much crafting there is, how useful it is, etc, I better see you with more than 3 50+ crafts. If not, then kindly step off with talking about how much there is to do. I've done it; there's not that much to do.

    And if you need proof that end-game doesn't exist, feel free to check basically any thread. There simply isn't. It's blatant lying to pretend that there's more to do for your main job/craft other than run AK/Cm, or gear for BC. That's it. That is 100% of the end-game. Anything else is blatant nonsense.

    Toxotes Tunic from AK: Dex-16, Vit-18, Crit-17, Acc-24

    http://xivdb.com/?item/6300/Toxotes-Tunic

    Darklight Corset: Dex-20, Vit-22, Acc-27, Crit-19

    http://xivdb.com/?item/3253/Darklight-Corselet-of-Aiming

    HQ Gryphonskin with Matreria (Not even Grade 5)

     

     

     

  • CymdaiCymdai Raleigh, NCPosts: 1,083Member

    So, while that shows what the armor would look like, it doesn't disprove anything. In fact, it confirms exactly what I said: You could just run AK/CM and farm full darklight gear, and you'll be on par with someone who is wearing unfilled T2 gear.

    In other words, the sole reason to level crafting for end-game is if you're a supremely obsessed min-maxer. 

    That, to me, doesn't justify the time spent, the lack of utility, or the resources required. Considering you can run BC with just Darklight gear, what that confirms is that T2 gear is simply inefficient. I don't see how you can dispute that. On a cost-effectiveness scale, DL gear is identical to T2 gear, costs SUBSTANTIALLY less to come by in terms of time and gil required, and the stat differences are up to the player (which, after the second materia, becomes even more of a gil/timesink)

    Thanks for helping me prove my point.

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Cymdai

    So, while that shows what the armor would look like, it doesn't disprove anything. In fact, it confirms exactly what I said: You could just run AK/CM and farm full darklight gear, and you'll be on par with someone who is wearing unfilled T2 gear.

    In other words, the sole reason to level crafting for end-game is if you're a supremely obsessed min-maxer. 

    That, to me, doesn't justify the time spent, the lack of utility, or the resources required. Considering you can run BC with just Darklight gear, what that confirms is that T2 gear is simply inefficient. I don't see how you can dispute that. On a cost-effectiveness scale, DL gear is identical to T2 gear, costs SUBSTANTIALLY less to come by in terms of time and gil required, and the stat differences are up to the player (which, after the second materia, becomes even more of a gil/timesink)

    Thanks for helping me prove my point.

    You have completely discounted the person who likes to craft because they like doing it.

    It is infinitely more meaningful for me to wear an item I made then dungeon farmed. It adds meaning to the game.

    Again, you come into this thread with your subjective opinions and present them as facts.

    I can respect that this kind of game doesn't apeal to you. But that is YOU. Others have a different take.

    To me, crafting IS part of endgame. A big part of endgame.

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Cymdai

    So, while that shows what the armor would look like, it doesn't disprove anything. In fact, it confirms exactly what I said: You could just run AK/CM and farm full darklight gear, and you'll be on par with someone who is wearing unfilled T2 gear.

    In other words, the sole reason to level crafting for end-game is if you're a supremely obsessed min-maxer. 

    That, to me, doesn't justify the time spent, the lack of utility, or the resources required. Considering you can run BC with just Darklight gear, what that confirms is that T2 gear is simply inefficient. I don't see how you can dispute that. On a cost-effectiveness scale, DL gear is identical to T2 gear, costs SUBSTANTIALLY less to come by in terms of time and gil required, and the stat differences are up to the player (which, after the second materia, becomes even more of a gil/timesink)

    Thanks for helping me prove my point.

    You have completely discounted the person who likes to craft because they like doing it.

    It is infinitely more meaningful for me to wear an item I made then dungeon farmed. It adds meaning to the game.

    Again, you come into this tread with your subjective opinions and present them as facts.

    To me, crafting IS part of endgame. A big part of endgame.

    If we are going to take road of subjective opinions then crafting is party of every MMO because simply people enjoy doing that. But this isn't about your subjective feelings.

    This is about role of crafting in end game and if it is viable in comparison to PVE end game gear..answer is obvious one. Nope. No amount of subjective opinions can change that.

    Its another typical themepark MMO where crafting is nothing more than time / resource sink and a mini game to keep players distracted while PVE end game raiding gets all the focus.

  • CymdaiCymdai Raleigh, NCPosts: 1,083Member

    Given that this thread is mine, and everything I'm stating is obviously my opinion, I don't see why you feel the need to remind me that it's my opinion. Was that not clear? Do I need a disclaimer to explain to people that posts consist of opinions? I honestly thought it such common sense that it didn't need to be clarified.

    As you can see, I'm a pretty dedicated crafter myself. But I'm not going to tell people it's a good idea. If you really love crafting, and this is what you're about, than by all means, craft away. But a lot of folks aren't interested in farming dungeons for tomes which are used for mats which are used to produce segments of gear which are used to produce whole pieces of gear. If it was such a common place, everyone would be crafting their own gear. But most people don't like to; it's part of the reason there is an economy in the first place. "I don't feel like farming, I don't feel like crafting, I don't feel like gathering" is the driving attitude behind most sales on the market board.

    If there more more attractive options for crafters, that would certainly make it more exciting and worthwhile. But to me, farming dungeons even more times than I already have to (is it around 52 times for full DL gear I believe) to get marginal/unnecessary gains.... I don't see the joy in that. God forbid you do both... you'll let be running the dungeons over 100 times!

    Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,586Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Cymdai

    So, while that shows what the armor would look like, it doesn't disprove anything. In fact, it confirms exactly what I said: You could just run AK/CM and farm full darklight gear, and you'll be on par with someone who is wearing unfilled T2 gear.

    In other words, the sole reason to level crafting for end-game is if you're a supremely obsessed min-maxer. 

    That, to me, doesn't justify the time spent, the lack of utility, or the resources required. Considering you can run BC with just Darklight gear, what that confirms is that T2 gear is simply inefficient. I don't see how you can dispute that. On a cost-effectiveness scale, DL gear is identical to T2 gear, costs SUBSTANTIALLY less to come by in terms of time and gil required, and the stat differences are up to the player (which, after the second materia, becomes even more of a gil/timesink)

    Thanks for helping me prove my point.

    You have completely discounted the person who likes to craft because they like doing it.

    It is infinitely more meaningful for me to wear an item I made then dungeon farmed. It adds meaning to the game.

    Again, you come into this tread with your subjective opinions and present them as facts.

    To me, crafting IS part of endgame. A big part of endgame.

    If we are going to take road of subjective opinions than crafting is party of every MMO because simply people enjoy doing that. But this isn't about your subjective feelings.

    This is about role of crafting in end game and if it is viable in comparison to PVE end game gear..answer is obvious one. Nope. No amount of subjective opinions can change that.

    How is it non viable............exactly?

    Show me the non subjective facts. You made a false claim, I showed the stat comparison of Dungeon gear vs Crafted gear. Looks viable to me.

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