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Dungeon Finder is GARBAGE

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  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member

    Even if they implement gear score, it's still not an IQ test. Lazy moochers will still watch tv while you pull all of the weight. 

    The dungeon finder isn't garbage, some players are. There is no feature that can remove that fact. 

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • Electro057Electro057 Guelph, ONPosts: 658Member
    Originally posted by Roxtarr

    Even if they implement gear score, it's still not an IQ test. Lazy moochers will still watch tv while you pull all of the weight. 

    The dungeon finder isn't garbage, some players are. There is no feature that can remove that fact. 

    We have a winner, stupid people will always be stupid now matter how well geared their characters are....And they'll always die from standing in the fire. 

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  • tort0429tort0429 New York City, NYPosts: 300Member
    Originally posted by Tinybina
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    funny sounds like elitism to me, but meh I don't have issues with pugs much.

     

     

    Lets say you have a potluck.  You bring steak, someone else brought Lobster, another person brought lasagna, another person brings BBQ ribs and then the last person brings paper cups and plates....

     

    Please explain to me how this would be fair.

     

    On a side note, I am now hungry...

    I think this is very fair, you need something to eat and drink out of.   image

  • tort0429tort0429 New York City, NYPosts: 300Member
    Originally posted by zasten
    Originally posted by Squeak69
    funny sounds like elitism to me, but meh I don't have issues with pugs much.

    Sounds like it to me too, but I don't play the game, so is will not bother me ;p

    I think people need to give the op a break, he asked a valid question, no need to bash him/her.

     

    If a level 20 player goes to a level 50 zone, they will die.   That is pretty clear cut.   What you bring up is interesting OP because the question is not so clear cut as my example.   You can be a level 40 going into a level 40 dungeon but have level 30 gear.  The game will allow it but I'm not sure why you would want to do that.  If you want to contribute to the entire group, you need to do what you can to be prepared for the dungeon ahead.

     

    So with that said, I agree with the people that said your attitude towards these players is a bit harsh and I also understand your point of view on how it can be a frustrating situation.  So, breathe.  image

     

    What to do? As someone else said, MMO's are social games.  Talk to the mate, give him some tips, offer to help it out, explain in a 'kind' way that he's simply going to DIE or not contribute well.  Maybe you are  a more experienced player, sounds like you are, then that player, but in the end, it doesn't give you the right to call them names or be disrespectful.

     

    So your question is interesting and valid, your approach needs a bit of fine tuning.   :)

     

  • Swids2010Swids2010 plymouthPosts: 244Member
    Some of you guys need to get a clue I don't care how good a players is if he's in gear 20-30 levels lower than the content your doing he's dragging the party down fact.

    image
  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Roxtarr

    Even if they implement gear score, it's still not an IQ test. Lazy moochers will still watch tv while you pull all of the weight. 

    The dungeon finder isn't garbage, some players are. There is no feature that can remove that fact. 

    IQ, latency and nimble fingers are far from related. 

  • IridescentOrkIridescentOrk Ellicott City, MDPosts: 157Member
    find another group? if you use the dungeon finder you should be aware that under geared players will be there; either suck it up or run dungeons with your guild; dungeon finder works as intended.

    gameplay > graphics

  • Bandaid47Bandaid47 bandaid, IDPosts: 38Member

    Is this a thread where the OP just learns how bad PUGS can be at complicated endgame content (yes I know the game is stupidly easy for you uber pros but most normal people it is difficult)

     

    Use the dungeon finder in addition to forming your own group...basically get into an FC, get into a few LFG Linkshells...Manually fill your group with people who know what they are doing...if heals or tank can only do one run, then just use the dungeon finder to fill the rest...if you cant find anyone else...

    It is fun popping into the dungeon finder for AK or Garuda HM and watching the the attitude of people:

    1. First run a silent wipe, no communication.

    2. Suggestion that the people who screwed up take a second to watch the youtube walkthrough.

    3. people who screwed up scoff at idea of learning the fight, say its for scrubs who are bad and need a crutch...despite they wiped group just now.

    4. everyone leaves.

     

    Funny stuff.

    I cant imagine what titan HM will be in the duty finder...people are barely coordinated enough to deal with garuda.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAPosts: 4,172Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Tinybina
    Originally posted by Squeak69 funny sounds like elitism to me, but meh I don't have issues with pugs much.
     

     

    Lets say you have a potluck.  You bring steak, someone else brought Lobster, another person brought lasagna, another person brings BBQ ribs and then the last person brings paper cups and plates....

     

    Please explain to me how this would be fair.
    On a side note, I am now hungry...


    Well, unless you plan to eat everything straight off the table and drink out of the tap, it sounds pretty fair to me.

  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAPosts: 4,172Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by time007
    When is gear score coming out?  I just got a Amdapor keep PUG with a guy wearing 5 pieces of sub level 38 gear.  He had a level 28 belt, 2 level 28 rings, and two level 38 pieces of jewelry.  He also has level 45 armor on.  This is for a level 55 dungeon!!!

    Gear aside - how did the person do? Did you beat the dungeon? How many times did you wipe? Or did you even try?

    Right now, I see no information correlating this player's gear to anything performance related. If it caused you to wipe repeatedly and you ran the dungeon timer out - ok, then you have some grounds to be concerned, and I applaud you for trying to help the guy out - and hope more people take it as an example of what a good community should do. If you looked at the guys gear and immediately withdrew from the duty so you could re-que with someone with as good or better gear than you for a fast run, then that's definitely elitist and a bit hypocritical.

    To date, I haven't had much problem with the Duty Finder. I've had some groups where we have struggled, but those usually end up being the more fun runs - things get unorthodox, but that makes it more interesting. Very very rarely, I'll have someone just drop and leave the group after the first wipe or misstep - that's unfortunate, but it's not very often at all.

    But then again, maybe this guy with the crappy gear is me, and I'm always being carried through all my dungeons in a clueless stupor with little to nothing to add to the dynamic.

  • RottsteinRottstein Coal Township, PAPosts: 34Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ridelynn

     


    Originally posted by Tinybina

    Originally posted by Squeak69 funny sounds like elitism to me, but meh I don't have issues with pugs much.
     

     

     

    Lets say you have a potluck.  You bring steak, someone else brought Lobster, another person brought lasagna, another person brings BBQ ribs and then the last person brings paper cups and plates....

     

    Please explain to me how this would be fair.
    On a side note, I am now hungry...


     

    Well, unless you plan to eat everything straight off the table and drink out of the tap, it sounds pretty fair to me.

    Who brings steak and lobster to a potluck?  Most people bring macaroni and cheese, some little finger food and soda.  This is a perfect example of people who think their gaming is topnotch, yet bring it to the common folk and then get upset when their expectations aren't met.  Of course this persons effort isn't necessarily any more than the person who isn't geared as well, but they think should not have to 'carry' a person who is trying just as hard but isn't as 'privileged' (ie hasn't gotten drops)

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,506Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by time007 When is gear score coming out?  I just got a Amdapor keep PUG with a guy wearing 5 pieces of sub level 38 gear.  He had a level 28 belt, 2 level 28 rings, and two level 38 pieces of jewelry.  He also has level 45 armor on.  This is for a level 55 dungeon!!!   This isn't elitism from my side, its them piggyback riding off of people who work hard.  This happens a lot with dungeon finder. I know they said they would put gear score in but when.  This is getting ridiculous.    This isn't the starter dungeon either.  Even if I find a guildie or two to group with we always get one busted up idiot in here who wants to piggy back off us.    And don't say, oh why don't you get a full team then so you don't have to pug.  Well you can if everyone is online, but I play late at night so its hard to get a full team on my server.
     

    My FC cleared AK in the first week post launch - all.of us were in mid 30s gear.

    Gear means very little in this game.

  • VladamyreVladamyre South Shore, KYPosts: 225Member
    Originally posted by time007

    When is gear score coming out?  I just got a Amdapor keep PUG with a guy wearing 5 pieces of sub level 38 gear.  He had a level 28 belt, 2 level 28 rings, and two level 38 pieces of jewelry.  He also has level 45 armor on.  This is for a level 55 dungeon!!!

     

    This isn't elitism from my side, its them piggyback riding off of people who work hard.  This happens a lot with dungeon finder. I know they said they would put gear score in but when.  This is getting ridiculous. 

     

    This isn't the starter dungeon either.  Even if I find a guildie or two to group with we always get one busted up idiot in here who wants to piggy back off us. 

     

    And don't say, oh why don't you get a full team then so you don't have to pug.  Well you can if everyone is online, but I play late at night so its hard to get a full team on my server.

    You're throwing a fit because people are wearing low level pieces of jewelry and they don't even make that big of a difference. The stat differences from the level 70 blue darklight gear is only 1 point higher in most stats then the level 60 green jewelry you get in amdapor keep. The real difference makers are the weapons and armor. Amdapor keep isn't hard for people to clear with ease in full AF gear and a darklight weapon from wanderers palace. The level 49 and 50 gear you buy off the market has about 5 to 6 on a stat, where as the level 30 jewelry has 3-4 on a stat, so the difference isn't anything to complain about. When you see people wearing level 20 and 30 armor in amdapor keep, then you can cry about it.

    In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Chiacgo, ILPosts: 602Member Common


    Originally posted by Tinybina
    Originally posted by Squeak69 funny sounds like elitism to me, but meh I don't have issues with pugs much.
     

     

    Lets say you have a potluck.  You bring steak, someone else brought Lobster, another person brought lasagna, another person brings BBQ ribs and then the last person brings paper cups and plates....

     

    Please explain to me how this would be fair.

     

    On a side note, I am now hungry...


    Wait what? Life is fair now?

    The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Complaints about PuGs = old as MMOs. Why people keep expecting 'easy' to produce 'quality', continues to baffle.

    Standard response, I guess.

    "All of your horrible PuG experiences of an entire lifetime have exactly one thing in common: You were in them."

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • aionixaionix Fremont, OHPosts: 292Member

    Another prime example of the selfishness of MMO players today.....and I'm talking about OP.

    Did you ask him/her why his gear was so low?

    Did you try to help him/her understand in a controlled and respectful manner?

    Did you even give him the chance to prove him/herself?

    Did you take a breath to control your thoughts and realize the world isnt perfect nor revolve around you and your playtime?

     

    This is a multiplayer game people!  You will encounter people who are not as informed nor gifted nor have as much time as you.  Its the nature of the beast, especially when it concerns PUGs.  So how about we all take a breath, not worry about time/loot ratio, and play the damn game for fun.  If you only enjoy the loot and not the content I suggest you stop playing the game.  MMO's are made for people with patience, not content locusts and e-peen braggers.  I suggest you try out another game I play frequently, Dota 2.  You may be surprised to find it offers much more in competitiveness satisfaction in a much shorter duration of time.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by DMKano

     


    Originally posted by time007 When is gear score coming out?  I just got a Amdapor keep PUG with a guy wearing 5 pieces of sub level 38 gear.  He had a level 28 belt, 2 level 28 rings, and two level 38 pieces of jewelry.  He also has level 45 armor on.  This is for a level 55 dungeon!!!   This isn't elitism from my side, its them piggyback riding off of people who work hard.  This happens a lot with dungeon finder. I know they said they would put gear score in but when.  This is getting ridiculous.    This isn't the starter dungeon either.  Even if I find a guildie or two to group with we always get one busted up idiot in here who wants to piggy back off us.    And don't say, oh why don't you get a full team then so you don't have to pug.  Well you can if everyone is online, but I play late at night so its hard to get a full team on my server.
     

     

    My FC cleared AK in the first week post launch - all.of us were in mid 30s gear.

    Gear means very little in this game.

    That's very good news (The AK part that is).

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemPosts: 647Member Uncommon

    FFXIV does a horrible job of explaining and gating "end game" requirements to Dungeons anyhow.  The entire pursuit through story and levels, things are gated by your level then it all just stops at 50 and gear level isn't explained.

     

    If you're not in the know you might assume if something unlocks for you, you can and should play it.

     

    With that said in PUGs it's your responsibility to know if you wish to stick around.  Examine peoples gear and if you don't like what you see, leave early and take the 15 minute cool down if necessary.  I live and die by PUGs and I know and accept the risks of being a lone wolf without a guild. Tanks do things wildly different, different dynamics come into play with the combinations of DPS.

     

    Like someone mentioned earlier, positioning, awareness and good skill rotations > gear.  It's easy to assume someone being "under geared" as a sign of being ignorant but it's ignorant not to politely ask if the person is leveling an alt and if they're familiar with the dungeon and what is required.

     

    It would be interesting to know how much gear contributes to a players overall stats and how gear effects dps, healing and tanking.

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon

    I don't think the thread title is accurate enough without some fitting adjectives&similar words (in caps for emphasis), such as TOTAL, UTTER, NOTHING BUT, WORST <garbage> IN AN MMO EVER.

    I just wish we could bold and italize our thread titles.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • Professor78Professor78 TamworthPosts: 588Member

    Simple answer.. don't use a PUG if you want everyone to live up to your expectations...

    Its the same when ppl joining a pug and then winge when its taking longer than 10min...

     

     

    Core i7(d0)on Foxconn Bloodrage, 6gb Tri DDR3,GTX 680, 120gb OCZ Vertex 2 SSD, 640gb Caviar Black, Windows 7, HAF 932 case, 24" Full HD Dell, Logitech G19, Rat 9, 50mb BB.

  • Professor78Professor78 TamworthPosts: 588Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    "All of your horrible PuG experiences of an entire lifetime have exactly one thing in common: You were in them."

    Lol, I like that :)

    Core i7(d0)on Foxconn Bloodrage, 6gb Tri DDR3,GTX 680, 120gb OCZ Vertex 2 SSD, 640gb Caviar Black, Windows 7, HAF 932 case, 24" Full HD Dell, Logitech G19, Rat 9, 50mb BB.

  • GinazGinaz Calgary, ABPosts: 1,731Member Uncommon
    There's no reason for a level 50 to be in lvl 30 or lower gear.  At all.  My 32 bard has mostly level appropriate gear.  Its not that hard to get.  Gear from quest rewards comes fairly often and its cheap as hell on the AH.  It looks like the person the OP is talking about power leveled with FATES because theres no way they leveled normally with quests and didn't get some quest rewards that were better than what they were wearing.  This isn't about MMO elitism, its about the lack of caring the other player had for whoever he was grouped with and he was expecting them to carry him through and leech his way to better gear.  The player's response's to the OP only confirms this.

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    Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.

  • AyulinAyulin Mt marion, NYPosts: 334Member
    Originally posted by AwDiddums
    Originally posted by time007

    When is gear score coming out?  I just got a Amdapor keep PUG with a guy wearing 5 pieces of sub level 38 gear.  He had a level 28 belt, 2 level 28 rings, and two level 38 pieces of jewelry.  He also has level 45 armor on.  This is for a level 55 dungeon!!!

     

    This isn't elitism from my side, its them piggyback riding off of people who work hard.  This happens a lot with dungeon finder. I know they said they would put gear score in but when.  This is getting ridiculous. 

     

    This isn't the starter dungeon either.  Even if I find a guildie or two to group with we always get one busted up idiot in here who wants to piggy back off us. 

     

    And don't say, oh why don't you get a full team then so you don't have to pug.  Well you can if everyone is online, but I play late at night so its hard to get a full team on my server.

    Spare a thought for that player first, did you speak to them and ask why the lack of relevant gear? was the player familar with MMO's? or was this their first, was the player a child who didn't fully understand what was expected of them when playing with others inside a dungeon?

    I've allowed my own children to play MMO's, the youngest is 11 and she has played such MMO's as WoW and had pretty bad experiences from intolerant players who have not given them the guidance they had hoped for when entering new parts of the game, the only way you learn is from other players and when those players are only too quick to judge because they feel you are having a negative impact on their gaming time then what chance do new players have of improving.

    Perhaps in the future when someone has a dig at your own performance that you think back to how you judged others, a good community does not just appear over night, it takes the players themselves to educate thier fellow players on what is expected of them, treat others how you would like to be treated, plain and simple.

     

    There is so much Truth and Wisdom in this post it should be required reading for anyone playing a MMO.

    Sadly, it will only be ignored or outright scoffed at by the very people it's intended to address; those who are far too wrapped up in "me me me", that they can't (or won't) recognize anything past their own nose.

    I mean, you can see it right in the tone of the OP. "They're just there to piggy-back off me and others!".  Right away, they spin it as "people trying to leech off them", when in reality, it could simply be someone not familiar with the content, not familiar with what's expected of them, and perhaps hoping they'd get lucky and end up in a group of people who aren't intolerant, ego-centric a-holes who feel everyone else is required to "rise to their standard".

     

  • Storman1977Storman1977 Columbus, OHPosts: 207Member

    All comes down to a simple philosophy - You are responsible for your own game experience.

    If you are in a group with an idiot; what does that make you, when you decide to remain in the group with the idiot?

    You complain that the player is too stupid/lazy/careless/inbred to farm the proper gear, yet you're too stupid/lazy/careless/inbred to leave the group and find/start another.

    I game to have fun. If I'm in a group that I'm not having fun with, I leave. I may, or may not, give them an explanation. Point is, I take responsibility for my gaming experience. If you rely on others to have a fun gaming experience, you are going to spend a whole lot of time frustrated and angry.

    image

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon

    If you think the GS will magically solve all your problems, think again. OK, now there is a system that locks out such players from your dungeon. But, now, how long is it going to take to get a group? And in some cases, It might just be easier/better to compensate for someone who is borderline on whether or not they should be in there, that it will be to double and triple the wait times for dungeons.

     

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