If you ever find any poll that is not, on this site, given this software: Please, alert the authorities. Homeland Security needs to know.
So in other words, you created a poll to direct people to the answer you wanted to hear because you were too lazy to write 8-10 additional words stating your opinion. Gotcha.
Explanation: I recently watched this happen. Simple question to answer, no more than five words.
The newb in question first received at least ten general-chat answers, ranging from completely unhelpful to completely abusive, before someone gave him a straight answer.
And we've alllllll seen examples over the years, right?
The problem is that from my experience 99% of the time people ask about something, that will be explained to them by the game in the next 5 minutes. It is like they have patience of a child, I mean for the love of god, at least finish the game introduction, before you will start asking questions.
Every game I played in the last few years was a hand holder theme park... meaning, that guidance is so clear and obvious, that if you don't know something, it means you do not need to know it yet. Like every single game has at least 100 questions a day from lvl 5 guys about where to get a mount, or when will I be able to get into dungeon etc etc. while it is pretty clear that a game wouldn't try to make that information hidden from you. It should be reasonable to assume you will get some quest that explains mounts or dungeons and shows you where to get them at one point, probably soon.
I have yet to see a game (I am talking about the new titles I played) where some information is obscured and hidden from player in a way, that he would need other players to show him, everything is put out on a plate. Yet questions like that are asked over and over.
Maybe if he didn't read anything at all while doing tutorial and just ran through it, but then I think he doesn't deserve help. I mean... why would I give you 1 minute of my time to help, if you couldn't give 10 seconds of your time to read information, the game has put right in your face, right?
So even though to answer you question I tend to just ignore this type of questions, I can fully understand how someone can get annoyed by that and even become offensive and angry. It can be frustrating ,especially when you have seen it so many times. Repetitiveness always adds to frustration.
If someone asks legit question, but like I said it is 1% of the time, I will answer with pleasure if I have time. But like I said, this is rare. And if I wanted to answer every question I would need to do only this entire day... And of course, I prioritize helping guild mates, so I barely ever have time to help random strangers.
I have found that in games equipped with a marked "Help" chat tab, it helps to control those issues to a point. The vets who really want to help hang out in that channel and questions go answered pretty quickly and in a friendly tone.
If you ever find any poll that is not, on this site, given this software: Please, alert the authorities. Homeland Security needs to know.
So in other words, you created a poll to direct people to the answer you wanted to hear because you were too lazy to write 8-10 additional words stating your opinion. Gotcha.
So in other words...oh, never mind, you totally win (1E+17 forum points!), take me away internet cop.
Done condescending at each other, or shall we continue for a few more exchanges?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I have found that in games equipped with a marked "Help" chat tab, it helps to control those issues to a point. The vets who really want to help hang out in that channel and questions go answered pretty quickly and in a friendly tone.
That's actually a really good idea. Where did you bump into that one?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Well the poll is kinda borked, I couldn't pick any of your choices
To answer though, I have never called anyone a noob, and I try and help
If the player refuses to do any research or thinking on their own, then I just ignore them
Bravo (and, realizing that folk could insert their own tone there, I genuinely mean bravo).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I like to pride myself in being the helpful/ nice player that people can talk to, but I can sometimes instantly tell whether someone is worth the time or not.
There's those who are there for 5 minutes and are asking blunt, rude, or just unnecessary questions, then there are those who are asking legitimate questions with a personable tone. Those are the ones I typically help and guide.
Most of my time is spent in guild chat anyhow so I'm typically helping out the newbies in the guild if anything.
Never fear, your dream MMO will be here.... just give me a decade or two to finely hone my Game development and design abilities as well as start a Game Design Studio. Thank you for your patience.
I have found that in games equipped with a marked "Help" chat tab, it helps to control those issues to a point. The vets who really want to help hang out in that channel and questions go answered pretty quickly and in a friendly tone.
That's actually a really good idea. Where did you bump into that one?
LOTRO has an "advice" channel I used to leave "on" to help newbies. It was nicely moderated so it was quite useful.
I know when I was playing EQ several years ago, it wasn't uncommon to see people buy/ebay pre-leveled characters. That allowed them to jump right into the high end content, but skip the (pretty painful in EQ) leveling process.
It was apparent when this happened. A L50 character with decent equipment asking stupid questions - of which anyone who actually leveled to 50 would definitely know.
To those people, I definitely wouldn't go out of my way to help them, even if the answer was only 5 words of text and all it required me to do was lift my fingers a few times. All because they didn't respect the game enough to actually play it - in my eyes, they cheated.
Now if I see a low level character asking the same question - no problem to answer that, go run over and show them, whatever it takes. Because that's what good members of a good community should do - foster new players, because those become good players eventually.
Newbies is a relative term. Raiding guild can have newbies (to raiding), for example.
Played-for-half-an-hour players can find people who are newbies (relative even to them).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
If you want the game your playing to thrive then you help new people out because bringing new people to the game and having them stay is what keeps a game growing and thriving.
If on the other hand you just want to see things burn...
However some questions asked in general are so blatantly stupid it's hard to resist I know.
We all start as newbs soem people seem to forget that.
Now noobs on the other hand...noobs are people who are bad players and who never learn from their mistakes or others and usually refuse advice and see it as an insult.This designation is not based on experience but attitude and continued idiocy.Noobs are best avoided and ignored.
I have found that in games equipped with a marked "Help" chat tab, it helps to control those issues to a point. The vets who really want to help hang out in that channel and questions go answered pretty quickly and in a friendly tone.
That's actually a really good idea. Where did you bump into that one?
LOTRO has an "advice" channel I used to leave "on" to help newbies. It was nicely moderated so it was quite useful.
It's a hopeful sign for the internet.
Anyway, despite the biased results, some stuff to think about from ye olde thread, thanks ya'll. (off to lunch)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by DrCokePepsinewbies in the guild
Actually made me blink, until I thought about it.
Newbies is a relative term. Raiding guild can have newbies (to raiding), for example.
Played-for-half-an-hour players can find people who are newbies (relative even to them).
When I'm in a guild there are those select few people who join with little experience, as long as they log on often enough and show a dedication to the game, they can remain in the guild and as they grow in experience they do more with the guild. Guilds are a community, both low in level and high.
But yes, I also help the ones newbie relative to me as in people who haven't run a specific dungeon, or need help with a quest so on and so forth.
Never fear, your dream MMO will be here.... just give me a decade or two to finely hone my Game development and design abilities as well as start a Game Design Studio. Thank you for your patience.
I have found that in games equipped with a marked "Help" chat tab, it helps to control those issues to a point. The vets who really want to help hang out in that channel and questions go answered pretty quickly and in a friendly tone.
That's actually a really good idea. Where did you bump into that one?
Wurm Online, The Settlers Online, and CoX to name a few.
Honestly, they are few and far between, but for the life of me I don't understand why any game with an in-game chat system does not have a "help" channel on the chat tabs by default... Shoot, you could even make it removable for those who don't want it.
I have found that in games equipped with a marked "Help" chat tab, it helps to control those issues to a point. The vets who really want to help hang out in that channel and questions go answered pretty quickly and in a friendly tone.
That's actually a really good idea. Where did you bump into that one?
Wurm Online, The Settlers Online, and CoX to name a few.
Honestly, they are few and far between, but for the life of me I don't understand why any game with an in-game chat system does not have a "help" channel on the chat tabs by default... Shoot, you could even make it removable for those who don't want it.
Plus in Cryptic's games, maybe a heritage from CoH. LotRO has an Advice channel (next to the plain old OOC), Funcom games have it too (NPH, as in Neil P new player help), etc... I thought it's a common thing.
To the question, I can't vote, the first 4 options are lame, and I don't like muffins Jokes aside, I think it takes almost no time to answer them (or even help them), it's good to the community and the game as well. Trolling is pointless...
I have found that in games equipped with a marked "Help" chat tab, it helps to control those issues to a point. The vets who really want to help hang out in that channel and questions go answered pretty quickly and in a friendly tone.
That's actually a really good idea. Where did you bump into that one?
Wurm Online, The Settlers Online, and CoX to name a few.
Honestly, they are few and far between, but for the life of me I don't understand why any game with an in-game chat system does not have a "help" channel on the chat tabs by default... Shoot, you could even make it removable for those who don't want it.
Plus in Cryptic's games, maybe a heritage from CoH. LotRO has an Advice channel (next to the plain old OOC), Funcom games have it too (NPH, as in Neil P new player help), etc... I thought it's a common thing.
Sounds like it's becoming more so. Game producers (at least) understand that newbs have actual, very real, value to all games.
Anyone want a Slider?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
That could be either that one game's playerbase, the particular server's playerbase or even a time of day thing. Can't really judge a community on one question.
Sure; and "just having a rotten day" is an explanation too.
But there are definitely communities that are toxic to newbs. How do we turn them around?
Depends who "we" is. The players? It's not their job. It would be nice to see them do it - it could even be considered right for them to try to turn around the bad apples - but I do not expect them to. The devs? That's part of the job of the community team, although some are just glorified forum moderators and social media spammers.
This is exactly who I'm expecting to see it from. Back in the early days when MMO's were small budget, (and less corporate) providing good customer service including active in game moderation of chat channels and behavior was the standard.
Now this has all but gone away as being too "expensive". Dammit, I'm not giving you a 15.00 a month so they can turn around and use it all to create their next game, some of that is supposed to go to properly servicing the game I'm currently playing.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Icewhite A newb asks a question about the game's interface (an easy--but not instantly apparent--one).
None of your answers do even remotely represent a viable reaction imo. If the answer isn't "instantly apparent", then the core of the issue is with the game's docs.
IMO questions show interest, and there's no "noobish question", only noobish behavior. questions deserve an honest/earnest answer, noobish behavor deserves only being put on /ignore.
Interesting that there is no "I'll help them." answer in the poll. ALL of the answers are negative, "Damn Newbies!" answers. Muffins does not even cover being nice. Or is muffins supposed to be the default "I'll be nice and answer the question." choice?
Did I miss something?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Interesting that there is no "I'll help them." answer in the poll. ALL of the answers are negative, "Damn Newbies!" answers. Muffins does not even cover being nice. Or is muffins supposed to be the default "I'll be nice and answer the question." choice?
Did I miss something?
The case is:
"A newb asks a question about the game's interface (an easy--but not instantly apparent--one)."
The question is:
"your first, instinctive response, no other data":
So I guess the answer:
Is the newb... Struggling with an unintuitive gui?
would be the good one, since it means you are relating to newbs problems and you are willing to help. And it is the most picked answer too. But I might have got it wrong.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky Interesting that there is no "I'll help them." answer in the poll. ALL of the answers are negative, "Damn Newbies!" answers. Muffins does not even cover being nice. Or is muffins supposed to be the default "I'll be nice and answer the question." choice?Did I miss something?
The case is:"A newb asks a question about the game's interface (an easy--but not instantly apparent--one)."The question is:"your first, instinctive response, no other data":So I guess the answer:Is the newb... Struggling with an unintuitive gui?would be the good one, since it means you are relating to newbs problems and you are willing to help. And it is the most picked answer too. But I might have got it wrong.
I guess. I just do not think that way. I don't analyze and question that kind of newbie question. I don't compare their troubles with my own.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Interesting that there is no "I'll help them." answer in the poll. ALL of the answers are negative, "Damn Newbies!" answers. Muffins does not even cover being nice. Or is muffins supposed to be the default "I'll be nice and answer the question." choice?
Did I miss something?
The case is:
"A newb asks a question about the game's interface (an easy--but not instantly apparent--one)."
The question is:
"your first, instinctive response, no other data":
So I guess the answer:
Is the newb... Struggling with an unintuitive gui?
would be the good one, since it means you are relating to newbs problems and you are willing to help. And it is the most picked answer too. But I might have got it wrong.
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but when I wrote before that no right option for me I ment, that this one is a bit negative as well. Newb, as it's in the name itself, is a newcomer - I can't know from where, and what background. Someone also mentioned before, most newer mmo's are designed (either willingly or just by a subconscious way) with an mmo mindset, with a goal that mmo players could feel themselves "at home" right away.
So if that newb is a newcomer to gaming at all (an elder with some free time, or a mom at home with a kid - both not unusual in LotRO for example), or coming from a different genre and new in mmo's (an fps-fanatic buddy of mine had some issues when first tried an mmo, and it was even a mouse-target one), it can happen that s/he will have some questions.
And it's not the gui's fault, let's say s/he can play the game, can navigate in the settings, etc., and bumps into Target assist on/off
My rule of thumb is that if I have the time, I'd like to help.
I treat newbs with as much respect as anyone else.
Noobs, on the other hand are treated as the asshats they are.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
Comments
So in other words, you created a poll to direct people to the answer you wanted to hear because you were too lazy to write 8-10 additional words stating your opinion. Gotcha.
The problem is that from my experience 99% of the time people ask about something, that will be explained to them by the game in the next 5 minutes. It is like they have patience of a child, I mean for the love of god, at least finish the game introduction, before you will start asking questions.
Every game I played in the last few years was a hand holder theme park... meaning, that guidance is so clear and obvious, that if you don't know something, it means you do not need to know it yet. Like every single game has at least 100 questions a day from lvl 5 guys about where to get a mount, or when will I be able to get into dungeon etc etc. while it is pretty clear that a game wouldn't try to make that information hidden from you. It should be reasonable to assume you will get some quest that explains mounts or dungeons and shows you where to get them at one point, probably soon.
I have yet to see a game (I am talking about the new titles I played) where some information is obscured and hidden from player in a way, that he would need other players to show him, everything is put out on a plate. Yet questions like that are asked over and over.
Maybe if he didn't read anything at all while doing tutorial and just ran through it, but then I think he doesn't deserve help. I mean... why would I give you 1 minute of my time to help, if you couldn't give 10 seconds of your time to read information, the game has put right in your face, right?
So even though to answer you question I tend to just ignore this type of questions, I can fully understand how someone can get annoyed by that and even become offensive and angry. It can be frustrating ,especially when you have seen it so many times. Repetitiveness always adds to frustration.
If someone asks legit question, but like I said it is 1% of the time, I will answer with pleasure if I have time. But like I said, this is rare. And if I wanted to answer every question I would need to do only this entire day... And of course, I prioritize helping guild mates, so I barely ever have time to help random strangers.
I have found that in games equipped with a marked "Help" chat tab, it helps to control those issues to a point. The vets who really want to help hang out in that channel and questions go answered pretty quickly and in a friendly tone.
So in other words...oh, never mind, you totally win (1E+17 forum points!), take me away internet cop.
Done condescending at each other, or shall we continue for a few more exchanges?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
That's actually a really good idea. Where did you bump into that one?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Well the poll is kinda borked, I couldn't pick any of your choices
To answer though, I have never called anyone a noob, and I try and help
If the player refuses to do any research or thinking on their own, then I just ignore them
Bravo (and, realizing that folk could insert their own tone there, I genuinely mean bravo).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I like to pride myself in being the helpful/ nice player that people can talk to, but I can sometimes instantly tell whether someone is worth the time or not.
There's those who are there for 5 minutes and are asking blunt, rude, or just unnecessary questions, then there are those who are asking legitimate questions with a personable tone. Those are the ones I typically help and guide.
Most of my time is spent in guild chat anyhow so I'm typically helping out the newbies in the guild if anything.
Never fear, your dream MMO will be here....
just give me a decade or two to finely hone my Game development
and design abilities as well as start a Game Design Studio.
Thank you for your patience.
LOTRO has an "advice" channel I used to leave "on" to help newbies. It was nicely moderated so it was quite useful.
My computer is better than yours.
Well, it depends.
I know when I was playing EQ several years ago, it wasn't uncommon to see people buy/ebay pre-leveled characters. That allowed them to jump right into the high end content, but skip the (pretty painful in EQ) leveling process.
It was apparent when this happened. A L50 character with decent equipment asking stupid questions - of which anyone who actually leveled to 50 would definitely know.
To those people, I definitely wouldn't go out of my way to help them, even if the answer was only 5 words of text and all it required me to do was lift my fingers a few times. All because they didn't respect the game enough to actually play it - in my eyes, they cheated.
Now if I see a low level character asking the same question - no problem to answer that, go run over and show them, whatever it takes. Because that's what good members of a good community should do - foster new players, because those become good players eventually.
Actually made me blink, until I thought about it.
Newbies is a relative term. Raiding guild can have newbies (to raiding), for example.
Played-for-half-an-hour players can find people who are newbies (relative even to them).
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
it depends on what your goal is.
If you want the game your playing to thrive then you help new people out because bringing new people to the game and having them stay is what keeps a game growing and thriving.
If on the other hand you just want to see things burn...
However some questions asked in general are so blatantly stupid it's hard to resist I know.
We all start as newbs soem people seem to forget that.
Now noobs on the other hand...noobs are people who are bad players and who never learn from their mistakes or others and usually refuse advice and see it as an insult.This designation is not based on experience but attitude and continued idiocy.Noobs are best avoided and ignored.
It's a hopeful sign for the internet.
Anyway, despite the biased results, some stuff to think about from ye olde thread, thanks ya'll. (off to lunch)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Newbies is a relative term. Raiding guild can have newbies (to raiding), for example.
Played-for-half-an-hour players can find people who are newbies (relative even to them).
When I'm in a guild there are those select few people who join with little experience, as long as they log on often enough and show a dedication to the game, they can remain in the guild and as they grow in experience they do more with the guild. Guilds are a community, both low in level and high.
But yes, I also help the ones newbie relative to me as in people who haven't run a specific dungeon, or need help with a quest so on and so forth.
Never fear, your dream MMO will be here....
just give me a decade or two to finely hone my Game development
and design abilities as well as start a Game Design Studio.
Thank you for your patience.
Wurm Online, The Settlers Online, and CoX to name a few.
Honestly, they are few and far between, but for the life of me I don't understand why any game with an in-game chat system does not have a "help" channel on the chat tabs by default... Shoot, you could even make it removable for those who don't want it.
Plus in Cryptic's games, maybe a heritage from CoH. LotRO has an Advice channel (next to the plain old OOC), Funcom games have it too (NPH, as in Neil P new player help), etc... I thought it's a common thing.
To the question, I can't vote, the first 4 options are lame, and I don't like muffins
Jokes aside, I think it takes almost no time to answer them (or even help them), it's good to the community and the game as well. Trolling is pointless...
Sounds like it's becoming more so. Game producers (at least) understand that newbs have actual, very real, value to all games.
Anyone want a Slider?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I will think to myself, Geez really?....but will respond with an kind answer to his or her question.
However I will not answer or respond to questions like: What's the best class? What's the fastest way to cap lvl.....
This is exactly who I'm expecting to see it from. Back in the early days when MMO's were small budget, (and less corporate) providing good customer service including active in game moderation of chat channels and behavior was the standard.
Now this has all but gone away as being too "expensive". Dammit, I'm not giving you a 15.00 a month so they can turn around and use it all to create their next game, some of that is supposed to go to properly servicing the game I'm currently playing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If the answer isn't "instantly apparent", then the core of the issue is with the game's docs.
IMO questions show interest, and there's no "noobish question", only noobish behavior.
questions deserve an honest/earnest answer, noobish behavor deserves only being put on /ignore.
Interesting that there is no "I'll help them." answer in the poll. ALL of the answers are negative, "Damn Newbies!" answers. Muffins does not even cover being nice. Or is muffins supposed to be the default "I'll be nice and answer the question." choice?
Did I miss something?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The case is:
"A newb asks a question about the game's interface (an easy--but not instantly apparent--one)."
The question is:
"your first, instinctive response, no other data":
So I guess the answer:
Is the newb... Struggling with an unintuitive gui?
would be the good one, since it means you are relating to newbs problems and you are willing to help. And it is the most picked answer too. But I might have got it wrong.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Maybe I'm overthinking it, but when I wrote before that no right option for me I ment, that this one is a bit negative as well. Newb, as it's in the name itself, is a newcomer - I can't know from where, and what background. Someone also mentioned before, most newer mmo's are designed (either willingly or just by a subconscious way) with an mmo mindset, with a goal that mmo players could feel themselves "at home" right away.
So if that newb is a newcomer to gaming at all (an elder with some free time, or a mom at home with a kid - both not unusual in LotRO for example), or coming from a different genre and new in mmo's (an fps-fanatic buddy of mine had some issues when first tried an mmo, and it was even a mouse-target one), it can happen that s/he will have some questions.
And it's not the gui's fault, let's say s/he can play the game, can navigate in the settings, etc., and bumps into Target assist on/off
My rule of thumb is that if I have the time, I'd like to help.
Edit: AlBQ was quicker
I treat newbs with as much respect as anyone else.
Noobs, on the other hand are treated as the asshats they are.