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Originally posted by skeeter667 Originally posted by Vladamyre Originally posted by eric_w66 Let us remember that DAOC wasn't a success, so designing a game based on a game that didn't have success was the first strike against it.
It wasn't a success? It was the 2nd highest population mmorpg durings its prime. Only Everquest had more population the DAoC did back then. You really need to do some research before you open up and toss out some worthless crap.
I'll back this up DAOC was a huge MMO when it launched it didn't start to die till WoW came out.
3rd'ed! also lets just say after a decade or so DAOC isn't the one being shut down either. It has survived its predecessor.
-Horrible engine performance
-Severe class imbalances... Archmages are Gods compared to Shamans and it was never fixed. And don't even get me started on Bright Wizards or Warrior Priests.
-Too many loading screens, way too many.
-Crafting that wasn't well thought out.
-PVE gear that was terrible compared to stuff you could get in RVR, so no incentive to PVE at all.
I thought the Lairs were a cool idea and fun to do in between RVR battles. I only did one instance, Hunter's Vale, and that was pretty awesome (with the giant bird taking you for a ride) but still not super polished. Public quests were cool but people quickly stopped doing them because the gear wasn't worth the time.
The zones were unique and had really cool vibes but that only takes you so far, especially when there's no PVE to get into the lore.
Originally posted by psiic Sometimes I wonder about the legality of these companies pulling the plug on games. Federal court has ruled time and again in favor of the consumer. 1) Digital goods and all rights associated with those goods belong to the consumer. 2) Seller is required by law to provide reasonable access to said digital property. 3) Seller can not impede, infringe, restrict transfer of said digital goods. That being said for a company that is not going out of business to just turn off a game that I purchased, I have to wonder just how legal that is. I would think at the very least that if they decide to no longer provide me with access, that they should at the very least have to provide me the server source code so that I can provide my own access.
Sorry to say but at the very most you will get a refund if you demand one, seeing as this is more like a magazine subscription then anything else.
All the above states is that if you really want to sell your Sword of power +4 the company can not take you to court over it. nor that they can arbitrary shut you off from the game. They need a reason to do so. Breaking a verbal agreement is usually viewed as enough from any providers pov but as i said you could take the case to your local consumer watchdog and they in turn could make a case for the trade court. You would most likley win there. But all that would gain you is as i sad A: A refund if the game is shut down or B: Your account restored if you were banned
This have been a good conversation
And what you have pointed out, quite rightly, is why all of these companies now provide a "service" and not a "product". It's how they get away with it, unfortunately.
Go to hell!
Originally posted by Eolex (...) 3.) too much focus on pve and public quests. Your an rvr game from a company that has success doing rvr stuff. Wile im not saying hay make daoc 2.0, they would of been better off making daoc with a warhammer skin. I know a lot of people that feel this way about it. (...)
are you saying DAoC had no pve? seriously?
"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid
and i did it anyway!"
For those of you who haven't been playing Games Workshop games since the late '80's like myself, I will tell you now that at least half the blame lies squarely at Games Workshop's feet.
They rule their IP with an iron fist and licensing it out comes with more caveats than most IP's. There's a very high possibility that many of the bad game decisions, such as only having two realms, came directly from GW headquarters. In fact, I would put money on the possibility that a GW employee was at the Mythic studios during the entire run of the game watching over their shoulders and making "suggestions" the whole time.
GW has a rich and fascinating IP, but they are also one of the most draconian companies I've ever dealt with or bought products from. BTW, much of this knowledge is coming from the fact that my grandfather used to own/operate a "gaming" store where we lived and GW was by far his biggest headache to have to deal with as a retailer of their products. He would tell me stories about how they operated at the business level which would make Machiavelli blush.
Originally posted by beeker255 Originally posted by skeeter667 Originally posted by Vladamyre Originally posted by eric_w66 Let us remember that DAOC wasn't a success, so designing a game based on a game that didn't have success was the first strike against it.
I forgot to mention this yesterday but after being out for almost 12 years now DAoC is still the best pvp game ever made. You won't find another game with the perfect setup for pvp like DAoC has.
In a world of sharp knives, you would be a spoon.
Originally posted by h0urg1ass For those of you who haven't been playing Games Workshop games since the late '80's like myself, I will tell you now that at least half the blame lies squarely at Games Workshop's feet. They rule their IP with an iron fist and licensing it out comes with more caveats than most IP's. There's a very high possibility that many of the bad game decisions, such as only having two realms, came directly from GW headquarters. In fact, I would put money on the possibility that a GW employee was at the Mythic studios during the entire run of the game watching over their shoulders and making "suggestions" the whole time. GW has a rich and fascinating IP, but they are also one of the most draconian companies I've ever dealt with or bought products from. BTW, much of this knowledge is coming from the fact that my grandfather used to own/operate a "gaming" store where we lived and GW was by far his biggest headache to have to deal with as a retailer of their products. He would tell me stories about how they operated at the business level which would make Machiavelli blush.
This would have come earlier , not when the game is about to launch.
I firmly blame mythic for all these bad decisions" if you don't have such a big head, don't blame the hat is big ..."
RIP Orc Choppa
I was there at the beginning of DAoC, and beta tested WAR and subsequently played for a month or two.
WAR was two games overlaid, that is why it seemed too instanced. Imo, war was first a collection of BGs. You flew to the Dwarf world to get in some BGs, you flew to the Elf world to get in others.
This pattern was thus stamped on to the pve/rvr lakes world too. This created a non-communicative, non-linear, non-progressive feeling to the entire game. My belief is Mythic alone was responsible for this, and I think it was a misguided result of WoW chasing.
Public questing has proven to be a revolutionary MMORPG feature, but I think RvR Lakes could prove to be even more important . WAR had most of the pieces to make a truly great game, but the pieces were arranged very, very poorly due to the developer's hard on with BGs.
The real innovation of WAR was an overall model for games, (one which ESO failed to see)
Originally posted by krage Originally posted by ThumbtackJ Such a mismanaged game, and the finger can be pointed at everyone (Mythic, EA, GW, etc). =/ Easily my biggest letdown of the last decade. If only they had used the funds that were spent to make the garbage that was Wrath of Heroes on a WAR Free to Play transition. Making WAR F2P wouldn't give it a bajillion players or anything like that, but it likely would have brought in those looking for a PvP/RvR fix and generated some revenue from a cosmetic cash shop (renown/exp boosts, costumes, mounts, pets, etc). Those funds then could have been spent on adding more content, fixing bugs, etc. WAR was very unique and there is not another game out there (that I'm aware of, aside from maybe DAoC) that gave you a sense of rivalry as well as some awesome PvP/RvR like WAR does. Could have, should have, would have, I suppose. It is what it is. I'll be playing on and off on an endless trial account doing some Tier 1 RvR until December 4th or so, when I'll activate my 14 free days to come back for one last WAAAGH with everyone else when the lights go out.
I remember when people hyped this game...LOL
The comments about this game has been said so many times (The Good,the bad, and the ugly).I am surprise it did not close it doors years ago..
I retired retroactively..Haha
I was looking at old patch notes yesterday. I got pissed.
If you look at the patch notes for the early patches before choppa and slayer came out, it shows them tuning warrior preist and bright wizards with the exact same %'s as sorcerer/Disciple of Khaine. I remember when the game was first coming out, there was the issue of way more Destruction players than order players. Soon afterwards, they introduced offering more xp and such to the side with less population. That didn't work.
Call me crazy I remember patch notes that said things like:
"Bright wizards blah ability does more damage"
"Sorcerer's blah ability does less damage"
"Warrior priest not heal themselves when hit"
"DoK still suck most of the time"
Not exactly, but I remember a serious tuning across the board making order more powerful. Then of course everyone started playing order. Except people like me, cause I think Orc's are freaking awesome. Cause they are.
But what pissed me off is either at the time I was stupid and could not read, or they went back and made it look like all the classes were treated the same from the very beginning, but there were suppose to be different classes, not mirrors (even though they were similar, which was cool), so that wouldn't really work.
Does anyone else remember this?
My Thoughts on Content Locust
If it were Mythic, then I might be a little sad, but since it's EA, screw em and good riddance.
Mythic didn't mess up this game, EA did.
potential + ea = disaster
might as well be a Blue Jays fan.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
It lacked focus and tried to have too many areas (instanced pvp, open world pvp, public quests) where you needed lots of people to get things going.
From early in development to about midway, all you heard about was instanced pvp scenarios and public quests. Then they released it for some open testing (to a lot of DAOC diehards I think) and got complaints about no open world pvp. So they added that.
Then when it was released everyone just did scenarios so they balanced against that and for open world. Etc. etc.
I think that they just needed to put their foot down about what type of game it was. With the 3 different focus areas, they were screwed because none worked properly without enough people. If you were into scenarios, they took too long to pop if not enough people. If you were into public quests, you could never get past the first stage without enough people. And open world pvp in a ghost town is no fun.
I think they just split their player base up too much relative to the size of their servers. Maybe if they had a Champions-Online-type 1 server setup they could have survived, but too much of the game became an unplayable ghosttown and their rebalancing wasn't helping clear the confusion about what the actual focus of the game was.
Originally posted by Eolex The problem with the game was apparent fro day 1. Mythic went to big in all the wrong directions. If it were me calling the shots, i would have done the following. 1.) 3 factions. If armies and classes were already mirrored, how hard would of been to add some cosmetics and classes of other races, a dogs of war faction if you will. 2 factions is all that was needed. Chaos and Order. While it was slightly less believable that Chaos would all unite, it was still plausable. Another faction would have just split the player base even more. 2.) shrink the rvr pools. There is no need for 3 different pools per tier. While we are at it, they should have done away with scenarios. Either pick open rvr or set size battlegrounds, but quit splitting your player base up. Its a niche game, so let it be niche. Which brings me to my next point. I do agree that the rvr pools split the player base too heavily, but just because a game has a "niche" doesn't mean it will be succesfull or even good. 3.) too much focus on pve and public quests. Your an rvr game from a company that has success doing rvr stuff. Wile im not saying hay make daoc 2.0, they would of been better off making daoc with a warhammer skin. I know a lot of people that feel this way about it. This one is complete and utter bullshit. There was BARELY any focus on PvE to begin with. And less focus on public quests? WAR was probably one of the first, if not THE first, to put them in game and they are now wildly succesful. And to ignore the deep rich lore of Warhammer and do a purely PvP game is.. is.. like going to a concert with noise canceling headphones just to see the light show!!! 4.) 1 capital city was fine, no need to spread out your social hubs either. The fact that got chopped was a god send to the social aspect of the game. The only reason 1 capital per side was fine was because of the tiny playerbase. I for one am very disapointed that they never opened the other capitals up at all. Such a Strong platform wasted on weak developers, who have shown success in the genre!!! I for one am so glad we have a new direction of game making that has been presented by the likes of SOE. Its apparent this day and age that developers and publishers are so disconnected from their audience that we keep getting served up crap. I honestly feel like picking a modern MMO to play is like picking a flavor of a turd. At the end of the day its still a turd! So looking forward to developers reaching out to us consumers from here on out.
Wow you never even mentioned The BIGGEST mistake Mythic made, which was denying their was any imbalance in PvP even in the face of overwhelming community gathered evidence that something was wrong. First you had a bright wizard DoT that could stack an unlimited number of times and to further compound this problem magic resistance gear did not actually work. Both problems were denied by Mythic and some of the most passionate community members who dared to repeatedly post evidence were banned from the forums.....
You cannot make a PvP centric game and have such glaringly obvious imbalances/exploits in the game and deny their existance.
I Recall when I finally left for good. I think it was about 6 months after launch, the above problems were still not fixed and still being denied by the devs. I was participating on the defending side of a T4 siege. The attacking team was literally made up of over 90% bright wizards who tore through our defenses with a rediculous speed & I remember just dying in seconds over and over to stacked dots which you couldnt remove or defend against with gear, trying to outheal them with potions that just couldnt beat the bugged DoT stacks. The Siege Ended and I thought screw this I will go PvE, an hour later I was dozing off at the Bland PvE and logged out.
I went to the Forums to vent & found yet another large ongoing thread on the subject had been deleted and the OP banned so I didnt even bother posting. The following weekend I logged in one last time to say goodbye to the few Guildies still playing, logged out & uninstalled the game. Other players all accross the world were doing the exact same thing in droves.
WAR has actually survived longer than it deserved to IMHO it did however teach me one valuable lesson. The lesson was that players subscription money is not used where it should be on 90% of MMO's and it is pointless to buy and subscribe to a game that launches incomplete in hopes they use your financial support to fix it because they never do.
I saw the marketing of this game at launch and I was not impressed.
Selling anything Games Workshop to me was always going to be tough, due to the way they consumed the UK role-playing hobby in the 90s in order to replace it with their premium lifestyle wargames product lines.
If they were seeking to draw cash from the UK market they essentially would need to focus on pricing set at the level of pocket-money received by UK teenagers and tie the playing of the game into shop activities in order to get people to be bothered about the game.