Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

MMORPGs are not for casual players.

12467

Comments

  • HolophonistHolophonist Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 2,086Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by fivoroth
    Originally posted by Holophonist
    Originally posted by Neo_Viper
    Originally posted by Panther2103
    I think that a lot of casual players don't think they are casual, so they try mmorpg games and end up hopping from game to game trying to find one that works for them. I don't think in general any MMORPG is designed to be casual friendly, they take a long time, and a lot of devotion to getting what you want in them, or just doing general things in MMO's take quite a bit longer than a match of Call of Duty or a round of a Football game. 

    A lot think they are "hardcore" when they are not, too. The true "hardcores" are found playing the games and beating the hardest content of them, and not crying on forums that nothing is "hardcore" anymore.

    One of the most difficult and "hardcore" games ever, SC2, also has a very vocal community that loves whining on forums.

    Only the bronze-gold/diamond "hardcore" players are whining. The real hardcore pro people are playing the game all time to whine about the game. Funnily enough those bronze-diamond people have no idea about balance. Just like these "hardcore" MMO players have no idea what difficult is/what an MMO should look like.

    I agree that a lot of the people whining are in lower leagues, but that's only because MOST people are in those lower leagues. There are still a surprising amount of masters players who argue about things on forums (myself included, though not all that often). But the fact is that even people in plat and diamond are probably more skilled and "hardcore" than most people who play any mmo.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,762Member Uncommon
    I agree with the OP but this thread is about 9 years too late....You could see this coming with WoW....It was too easy for the hardcore (generally gameplay not the top end raids) and everything known from prior MMOs was dumbed down greatly in WoW.......Once that game too koff it was all over for the hardcores and social MMO players.
  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    In related news, a small, vocal group of people doesn't like something, and doesn't care if implementing their point of view would result in the focus of the attention ceasing to exist.

     The poll shows somewhat close results although no slightly favored yes still has a sizable percent of the current votes so i wouldnt be calling in a small groups of people looking for these types of games there definetly appears like an untapped market currently imo.

  • Neo_ViperNeo_Viper NotyourbusinessPosts: 598Member
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    In related news, a small, vocal group of people doesn't like something, and doesn't care if implementing their point of view would result in the focus of the attention ceasing to exist.

     The poll shows somewhat close results although no slightly favored yes still has a sizable percent of the current votes so i wouldnt be calling in a small groups of people looking for these types of games there definetly appears like an untapped market currently imo.

    100 people coming to this forum well known for having a lot of "grumpy old school" members. Not exactly a good basis to generalize ;)

    Remember, most casual players don't even come to MMORPG forums.

    My computer is better than yours.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by neobahamut20
    Originally posted by Neo_Viper
    Originally posted by neobahamut20
    Originally posted by Neo_Viper
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Neo_Viper
    Just out of curiosity, who out of the virtual muscle flexing self proclaimed "hardcores" here have beaten all the heroic mode raid content in WoW?


    Here's where we disagree. You think a game's difficulty is defined by its hardest content. I think it's defined by its easiest content.

    This doesn't make any sense at all. All various difficulty levels give is choices. The most difficult content defines the final difficulty of the game.

    The simple fact that people don't do the most difficult content in a game shows that they are not as "hardcore" as they pretend to be.

    And what game is actually "hard"? The hardest thing that led me to quit WoW was that finding good players to play with was hard.

    Yet the "top" guilds beat the hardest heroic raids on every WoW server. Maybe you didn't search hard enough, or maybe your skill isn't as great as you seem to think it is? Maybe it is those good players who are laughing at you?

    I quit  3 top guids on 2 different servers because they didn't try achieves fast enough and we're too slow to learn fights, or required too much contribution/time and the 3rd one is actually because Blizz was too slow to update the game so I just quit it forever. So that's not the issue. I also quit a 2nd-best because I caused three wipes in a row and in my mind that should be an auto-gkick for anyone, no exception. I don't own MoP though so I cant talk about recent raids.

     

    Essentially, if you have 1/2 a brain and can pass highschool quizzes you can do a WoW fight. It's not really dfiferent, think of it as a silly dance where you have to be at the right place at the right time where you have to move your arms and make retard faces, except in WoW you just press buttons on a keyboard and try to stay awake.

     Just gonna leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon

    Games previous to WoW did not offer anything to a casual player. WoW offered a balance. It had plenty of casual contnet but also offered content for the hardcore gamer too. Now it's the full shift.  Problem is, even casual players enjoy difficult challenges. Love it or hate it, to date, WoW, at one point, had achieved the best balance between the two with the highest historical Sub record. It had a lot of stuff for everyone.

  • XssivXssiv Haskell, NJPosts: 359Member

    Let's be honest, there was nothing hardcore about old school MMO's, they just required more time and didn't have the quality of life features that we've grown accustomed to. 

     

    For some reason, many people choose to blame WoW as a way to deal with the fact that they can't seem to recapture the magic of the old MMO's.  

    Unfortunately, the magic wasn't really about the games but more about the concept of being online in a persistent world with thousands of other people.    As soon as everyone and their mother got high-speed internet, online gaming lost a bit of it's luster.  

     

     

     

     

  • Neo_ViperNeo_Viper NotyourbusinessPosts: 598Member
    Originally posted by sanshi44

     Just gonna leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas

    This video is about 5 man and Looking for Raid.

    The difficulty shown has nothing to do with heroic or even normal raids.

    My computer is better than yours.

  • deniterdeniter LappeenrantaPosts: 808Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    Games previous to WoW did not offer anything to a casual player. WoW offered a balance. It had plenty of casual contnet but also offered content for the hardcore gamer too. Now it's the full shift.  Problem is, even casual players enjoy difficult challenges. Love it or hate it, to date, WoW, at one point, had achieved the best balance between the two with the highest historical Sub record. It had a lot of stuff for everyone.

    I agree. In vanilla and TBC i had lots of time to play but i didn't want someone to tell me when i was supposed to show up for a raid. Still, i never ran out of stuff to do even though i skipped the whole raiding feature and didn't care much of PvP, nor i ever got bored on WoW. Some of my friends raided in hardcore guilds and some played very casually a few hours a week and we were all very satisfied with our gaming experience.

    Today, none of us plays WoW, but i'm sure we all would if the game was about the same it was in vanilla, TBC or even in early WotLK. Even the most casual type of my friends say WoW is too easy. And they really don't care if some hardmode raid is super difficult, since they never were interested in raiding.

    So i think it's safe to say WoW really offered a balance in some point for all types of players. Unfortunately they have lost it long ago and other mmorpgs seems to follow the design that has already shifted from the balanced one.

  • Univers0Univers0 SydneyPosts: 29Member
    What made Everquest shine was not the difficulty, but the immersion and the community.   I think majority of players were casual even in Everquest.   Besides just because you combine the same ingredients, does not mean you will get the same result as in pre-WoW days.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Univers0
    What made Everquest shine was not the difficulty, but the immersion and the community.   I think majority of players were casual even in Everquest.   Besides just because you combine the same ingredients, does not mean you will get the same result as in pre-WoW days.

    EQ did not shine for me.

    And what immersion? Killing the same mob again and again, respawned at exact the same spot is immersive? There is zero interaction with the world except killing mobs. Is that immersive? Any ARPG is 100x more "immersive". At least you can blow up barrels and open chests.

    It is good that MMO have evolved beyond EQ. Otherwise, i would not play any MMO anymore.

     

  • VengerVenger York, PAPosts: 1,318Member
    Originally posted by Zapzap
    Originally posted by Venger

     

    Whether I agreeing or disagreeing is moot, developers create what the market demands.  

    The problem is the market has no idea what it wants in a game.  The market is run by casuals.  The casuals make demands and the developers respond, then the casuals complain the game is to hard and the developers nerf everything, then the casuals all quit as no game will ever make them happy and then they move on to making demands on the next game they will ruin and quit.   Leaving only the hardcore players left playing a game that is in a state of complete mess because of what has been demanded by the casuals.

    A very large percentage of these casuals do not play MMOs other than on forums.  They just destroy MMOs with their demands for "innovation," eye candy and games being dumbed down so they can play them too. What we have left then are poorly made MMOs that lack challenge, thought and endgame as everything is frontloaded into low level content for the casuals.

    The OP is right there should be 2 separate Genres MMODs and MMOPs.  MMOs for Dummies and MMOs for Players.

    Wow there is just so much wrong here.  

    Since all the mmo we currently get are hyper fast level games I think the market does know what it wants.  Maybe you and myself just aren't part of that new market, sucks for us.  Developers respond to casual gamers because they are a majority share of the market.  Leaving the hardcore crowd... now that is funny.  I'd have to disagree completely most of the casual people vote with their wallets they don't waste their time on forums.

    LOL yeah that is just a silly statement.

    How would creating a cool kid acronym fix anything?  All the cool kids would be sitting in the MMOP bracket feeling tough and manly with no games to play because all the developer want the MMOP masses..... just like they are doing right now.

    Unfortunately markets change you can either adapt to the new market, leave, or hang out and hope the market comes back some.

  • ray12kray12k riverside, CAPosts: 447Member
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Vunak23
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Vunak23

     

    To many developers catering to casuals rather than using them as a buffer. 

     

     

    It is a free market. The devs can cater to anyone they want. On the flip side, you can always decide not to play their game.

    They can continue to fail as well, you are right it is their decision. 

    And they gravitate towards successes that are not necessarily MMOs ... D3, LoL WoT, ....

    I bet lots of online game devs have switched MMO plans to MOBA plans.

     

     doubt it mobas are a very small community. if anything they will make a fps mmo or  ultra violent single player games with small grouping.

    But yeah, casual killed the genre.

  • kabitoshinkabitoshin Posts: 758Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DrCokePepsi

    MMORPGs are not for casual players.

    Ok, ok I said it.

    Before everyone goes apeshit and flings poo all over the forums, let me further define this statement.

    MMORPGs of old (here I go again) were based on the principles of what is now defined as a sandbox in general. Everquest introduced a theme-park element, and WoW is ultimately the poison that screwed up the market as it was intended to be. WoW brought in the mainstream, casuals.

    Warcraft was loved by millions of PC gamers, it made the game a hit at first, but was done very well and slowly started growing fame.

    MMORPGs were intended to be open-world, have heavy and involved character development, and introduce people to a fantasy world where you could do what you want at any point, leaving the community to combine and create guilds, adventure and explore the map, and build upon their social foundation.

    They still are like this just not as deep char development as elitists want.

    MMORPGs are social games.

    Now, the new games coming out now, are for the most part WOW-clones. All being at least somewhat inspired and molded to the WOW formula. The WoW formula is fine for one, two maybe a couple more games on the market. But WoW has literally turned the entire MMORPG market into some WoW-esque form of game. No longer will companies DARE move out of this (financially) successful formula.

    This is what gets me everyone is tired of this formula but has no other formula to change the end game design.

    A game's success should not be measured in it's financial earnings, but how loyal the community in it is, and the quality of the game as a whole. Users on this site, when discussing whether a game was good or bad often turn to discussing financial figures, rather that why the game was actually good. It's unfortunate as that's all the developers care about, now so is the community.

    MMO's are very expensive and takes longer to develop if they can't keep good numbers they turn into vaporware or go F2P.

    The MMORPG genre lost it's loyal, hardcore, niche fan-base and has been drowned in a sea of casuals who play and ditch the games like it's a console game. Developers don't care what a good MMORPG game would be, and they wouldn't add unnecessary features to it, leaving a bare skeleton of a barely finished game who's point is to simply rack in the majority of players, get their money, and ditch.

    I agree on this one, I think it's cause most mmo's release and they make leveling way too quick. Within the first 2-3 weeks of the game they already cleared the endgame and usually companies will take 4-6 months to do something about it.

    The market hasn't seen a GOOD MMORPG in a long time.

    Even if you don't like it GW2 is a very good game, and is doing very well compared to newer MMO's.

    Since WoW the hardcore community has dabbled in terrible games. We have been waiting and waiting, some even quit completely, for that great game again. MMORPGs have taken a turn for the worse once it was opened to mainstream, because mainstream means, money, money means big companies, and these big companies who's singular goal is pure profit, leave no room for the truly ambitious developers who truly care to make a good MMORPG.

    Again I think this is due to lack of content within the first couple of months when people are gear capped and sick of the same raids. Even though SquareEnix is a big company they put alot of love into the game, seriously how many MMO's released fully functional.

    A new genre should be created for the casuals. Rather than being labeled MMORPG, they should make new lobby-based games, or just single player RPG's with a multiplayer aspect. These casuals could clear up the confusion that they enjoy MMORPGs, when in-fact they complain about the games that are ACTUALLY MMORPGs and they could have their auction house, dungeons, and the works, without interfering with the MMORPG genre.

    I have a feeling that casual in your meaning is noob, and y'all do nothing but bash them, and do nothing good to help them. I started in WoW, I was bad at it, then I had someone teach me my class early on and I improved greatly. You "hardcores" just scream and cuss noobs/casuals when they can't play their class well.

    MMORPGs have, at their core, been mutilated. The once hardcore niche genre for those who truly enjoyed MMORPGs have been swimming in bad games since WoW came out. Not yet (besides Eve and a select few) have any games truly deserved the label of MMORPG. The casuals should realize what they want and stride for that rather than try to turn the MMORPG genre into something it's just not.

    The genre hasn't been mutilated, it just hasn't changed much since WoW, GW2 has done something way different and just cause it's endgame isn't raiding people call the game shallow.

    You have some serious rose tinted glasses there, if you have been playing since EQ I think I'd be sick of this genre too. Elderscroll series has been the same since Daggerfall, but somehow people aren't sick of elderscrolls yet and it's always the exact same thing everytime different story. I notice alot of people don't play for the story or the lore, so half the game is being avoided there. Y'all never stop to smell the roses, it's just rush rush rush, and consume while nitpicking everything. If they was to make an mmo that would take a year to hit cap and everything was keyboard breaking tough without groups to help, it would probably have to be made on a small budget to keep it alive.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by ray12k

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Vunak23

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Vunak23   To many developers catering to casuals rather than using them as a buffer.     
    It is a free market. The devs can cater to anyone they want. On the flip side, you can always decide not to play their game.
    They can continue to fail as well, you are right it is their decision. 
    And they gravitate towards successes that are not necessarily MMOs ... D3, LoL WoT, .... I bet lots of online game devs have switched MMO plans to MOBA plans.  
     doubt it mobas are a very small community. if anything they will make a fps mmo or  ultra violent single player games with small grouping.

    But yeah, casual killed the genre.



    There are more concurrent MOBA players than there are MMORPG subscribers. Not entirely sure about FPS players, but they seem to trail a bit behind the MOBAs in terms of players.

    **

    Actually, what I'm saying may not be true. LoL had 5 million concurrent players this year, and DOTA2 topped out at a bit over half a million concurrent players. In any event, an online game with 5 million concurrent players does not have a small community, relative to MMORPGs.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ray12kray12k riverside, CAPosts: 447Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by ray12k

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Vunak23

    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Vunak23   To many developers catering to casuals rather than using them as a buffer.     
    It is a free market. The devs can cater to anyone they want. On the flip side, you can always decide not to play their game.
    They can continue to fail as well, you are right it is their decision. 
    And they gravitate towards successes that are not necessarily MMOs ... D3, LoL WoT, .... I bet lots of online game devs have switched MMO plans to MOBA plans.  
     doubt it mobas are a very small community. if anything they will make a fps mmo or  ultra violent single player games with small grouping.

     

    But yeah, casual killed the genre.



    There are more concurrent MOBA players than there are MMORPG subscribers. Not entirely sure about FPS players, but they seem to trail a bit behind the MOBAs in terms of players.

     

    wrong lol....  kinda like retarded wrong

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by ray12k
    Originally posted by lizardbones   Originally posted by ray12k Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Vunak23 Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Vunak23   To many developers catering to casuals rather than using them as a buffer.     
    It is a free market. The devs can cater to anyone they want. On the flip side, you can always decide not to play their game.
    They can continue to fail as well, you are right it is their decision. 
    And they gravitate towards successes that are not necessarily MMOs ... D3, LoL WoT, .... I bet lots of online game devs have switched MMO plans to MOBA plans.  
     doubt it mobas are a very small community. if anything they will make a fps mmo or  ultra violent single player games with small grouping.   But yeah, casual killed the genre.
    There are more concurrent MOBA players than there are MMORPG subscribers. Not entirely sure about FPS players, but they seem to trail a bit behind the MOBAs in terms of players.  
    wrong lol....  kinda like retarded wrong


    DOTA2 has half a million concurrent players on a daily basis. Eve and SWToR each have half a million subscribers, with Eve clocking in at 60k concurrent players on a daily basis. That doesn't even get into LoL's five million concurrent players.

    If you're not clear on the term, concurrent means the number of people logged in at the same time. It's usually some portion of the total people playing at game. In Eve's case, that ratio is about 10% of the population. Apply the same ratio to DOTA2, and you get five million players. Apply it to LoL and you get fifty million players.

    There are considerably more MOBA players than there are MMORPG players. Those people talk to each other*, they have guilds, discussion boards and community.

    * Maybe they just yell at each other. Whatever.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DrCokePepsi

    MMORPGs are not for casual players.

    Ok, ok I said it.

    Before everyone goes apeshit and flings poo all over the forums, let me further define this statement.

    MMORPGs of old (here I go again) were based on the principles of what is now defined as a sandbox in general. Everquest introduced a theme-park element, and WoW is ultimately the poison that screwed up the market as it was intended to be. WoW brought in the mainstream, casuals.

    MMORPGs were intended to be open-world, have heavy and involved character development, and introduce people to a fantasy world where you could do what you want at any point, leaving the community to combine and create guilds, adventure and explore the map, and build upon their social foundation.

    MMORPGs are social games.

    Now, the new games coming out now, are for the most part WOW-clones. All being at least somewhat inspired and molded to the WOW formula. The WoW formula is fine for one, two maybe a couple more games on the market. But WoW has literally turned the entire MMORPG market into some WoW-esque form of game. No longer will companies DARE move out of this (financially) successful formula.

    A game's success should not be measured in it's financial earnings, but how loyal the community in it is, and the quality of the game as a whole. Users on this site, when discussing whether a game was good or bad often turn to discussing financial figures, rather that why the game was actually good. It's unfortunate as that's all the developers care about, now so is the community.

    The MMORPG genre lost it's loyal, hardcore, niche fan-base and has been drowned in a sea of casuals who play and ditch the games like it's a console game. Developers don't care what a good MMORPG game would be, and they wouldn't add unnecessary features to it, leaving a bare skeleton of a barely finished game who's point is to simply rack in the majority of players, get their money, and ditch.

    The market hasn't seen a GOOD MMORPG in a long time.

    Since WoW the hardcore community has dabbled in terrible games. We have been waiting and waiting, some even quit completely, for that great game again. MMORPGs have taken a turn for the worse once it was opened to mainstream, because mainstream means, money, money means big companies, and these big companies who's singular goal is pure profit, leave no room for the truly ambitious developers who truly care to make a good MMORPG.

    A new genre should be created for the casuals. Rather than being labeled MMORPG, they should make new lobby-based games, or just single player RPG's with a multiplayer aspect. These casuals could clear up the confusion that they enjoy MMORPGs, when in-fact they complain about the games that are ACTUALLY MMORPGs and they could have their auction house, dungeons, and the works, without interfering with the MMORPG genre.

    MMORPGs have, at their core, been mutilated. The once hardcore niche genre for those who truly enjoyed MMORPGs have been swimming in bad games since WoW came out. Not yet (besides Eve and a select few) have any games truly deserved the label of MMORPG. The casuals should realize what they want and stride for that rather than try to turn the MMORPG genre into something it's just not.

     Before reading all the reply's I want to state me thought on this.

    Maybe we (old school player)  need to accept that MMO's or MMORPG's are not what we hoped for these day's but it can never mean that this genre isn't meant for the casual.

    This genre was alway's for all sorts of players, especially the old because even in the old we had casual players but keep in mind I consider casual players merly players with less time to play compared to the hardcore players, the wants and needs are no different. Though the hardcore players seems able to challenge himself in what some people would consider easy games. And the casual player might reach the point of becoming competive against a hardcore player, just the hardcore player will reach that state much faster where it might take the casual players allot more time.

    If you really want to make an honost topic you could suggest that a group of hardcore players might want a genre called differently. Why should a genre as big as MMO's or MMORPG's are today change something for the minority?

    As an old school gamer I understand why this genre is what it is, just accept that and hope for other games to bring back some of that magic we felt in our old school MMORPG's. Simply put there is room enough in MMO/rpg land for different type of styles.

    I can find my own niche even in themepark games, yet I do desire for something more, something I already tasted (SWG), something more virtual world like.

    But I simply can not ignore the majority of complaints we heard in our old school games which resulted in what we have seen the last several years with MMO/rpgs.

    It's safe to say that more people left MMORPG's in the old then those of us who enjoyed it. Any gamecompany or developers wants that their game is enjoyed by as many people possible. Of course we have developers that might target a certain niche.

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Holophonist
    Originally posted by fivoroth
    Originally posted by Holophonist
    Originally posted by Neo_Viper
    Originally posted by Panther2103
    I think that a lot of casual players don't think they are casual, so they try mmorpg games and end up hopping from game to game trying to find one that works for them. I don't think in general any MMORPG is designed to be casual friendly, they take a long time, and a lot of devotion to getting what you want in them, or just doing general things in MMO's take quite a bit longer than a match of Call of Duty or a round of a Football game. 

    A lot think they are "hardcore" when they are not, too. The true "hardcores" are found playing the games and beating the hardest content of them, and not crying on forums that nothing is "hardcore" anymore.

    One of the most difficult and "hardcore" games ever, SC2, also has a very vocal community that loves whining on forums.

    Only the bronze-gold/diamond "hardcore" players are whining. The real hardcore pro people are playing the game all time to whine about the game. Funnily enough those bronze-diamond people have no idea about balance. Just like these "hardcore" MMO players have no idea what difficult is/what an MMO should look like.

    I agree that a lot of the people whining are in lower leagues, but that's only because MOST people are in those lower leagues. There are still a surprising amount of masters players who argue about things on forums (myself included, though not all that often). But the fact is that even people in plat and diamond are probably more skilled and "hardcore" than most people who play any mmo.

    That's true. Playing a plat/diamond level game in SC2 is like rocket science compared to playing MMOs. MMO players are more on the level of gold league players D:

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Neo_Viper
    Originally posted by Arclan Originally posted by Neo_Viper Just out of curiosity, who out of the virtual muscle flexing self proclaimed "hardcores" here have beaten all the heroic mode raid content in WoW?
    Here's where we disagree. You think a game's difficulty is defined by its hardest content. I think it's defined by its easiest content.
    This doesn't make any sense at all. All various difficulty levels give is choices. The most difficult content defines the final difficulty of the game.

    The simple fact that people don't do the most difficult content in a game shows that they are not as "hardcore" as they pretend to be.



    Let me spell it out for you:

    "How difficult is it for the average player to survive and progress in the game world."

    Thus defines a game's difficulty. You do not base a game's difficulty on content that very few players will ever see.



    Originally posted by Swedish_Chef
    ...People routinely mistake 'time-consuming' activities for 'challenging' ones, and it's getting rather old...


    Let me fill you in on something I assumed everyone knew. Nothing in this life is difficult; you can achieve anything provided you dedicate the time. Being a doctor is not difficult; but getting there is certainly "tedious and time consuming."

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Univers0
    What made Everquest shine was not the difficulty, but the immersion and the community. I think majority of players were casual even in Everquest. Besides just because you combine the same ingredients, does not mean you will get the same result as in pre-WoW days.

    QFT

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

    Let me fill you in on something I assumed everyone knew. Nothing in this life is difficult; you can achieve anything provided you dedicate the time. Being a doctor is not difficult; but getting there is certainly "tedious and time consuming."

    I will never achieve orbit, no matter how long I continue to flap my arms.

    Folksy wisdom is often stated in absolutes that simply are not true.

    And those students that flunk out of Harvard pre-med might disagree that it isn't dfficult.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Arclan Let me fill you in on something I assumed everyone knew. Nothing in this life is difficult; you can achieve anything provided you dedicate the time. Being a doctor is not difficult; but getting there is certainly "tedious and time consuming."
    I will never achieve orbit, no matter how long I continue to flap my arms.

    Folksy wisdom is often stated in absolutes that simply are not true.

    And those students that flunk out of Harvard pre-med might disagree that it isn't dfficult.




    When I die, I can have my ashes sent into space. I'll never get a medical degree though. I also wouldn't be able to see the Earth from orbit though. Now I'm a little sad. Thanks a lot. :-(

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Neo_ViperNeo_Viper NotyourbusinessPosts: 598Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

     


    Originally posted by Neo_Viper

    Originally posted by Arclan

    Originally posted by Neo_Viper Just out of curiosity, who out of the virtual muscle flexing self proclaimed "hardcores" here have beaten all the heroic mode raid content in WoW?
    Here's where we disagree. You think a game's difficulty is defined by its hardest content. I think it's defined by its easiest content.
    This doesn't make any sense at all. All various difficulty levels give is choices. The most difficult content defines the final difficulty of the game.

     

    The simple fact that people don't do the most difficult content in a game shows that they are not as "hardcore" as they pretend to be.


     


    Let me spell it out for you:

    "How difficult is it for the average player to survive and progress in the game world."

    Thus defines a game's difficulty. You do not base a game's difficulty on content that very few players will ever see.

    That's called "shooting in your own foot", does it hurt?

    Actually, you try not to design content that only very few players will see. That's why more and more MMORPGs propose levels of difficulty for the hardest content. So that all paying customers spend time playing that content they used developer resources to create.

    The hardest content defines what the "hardcore" can look forward to, and therefore the FINAL game difficulty. The fact that there is easier versions of the content for more "casual" players doesn't change that fact, no matter how hard to try.

    My computer is better than yours.

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Arclan Let me fill you in on something I assumed everyone knew. Nothing in this life is difficult; you can achieve anything provided you dedicate the time. Being a doctor is not difficult; but getting there is certainly "tedious and time consuming."
    I will never achieve orbit, no matter how long I continue to flap my arms...

    Brilliant. /sarcasm off


    Originally posted by Neo_Viper
    The hardest content defines what the "hardcore" can look forward to, and therefore the FINAL game difficulty.


    I heard ya the first time and I disagree. But we can continue to spout our positions ad infinitum.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

Sign In or Register to comment.