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The reason I think FFXIV is going to fail: Staying power

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  • GrailerGrailer HamiltonPosts: 876Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by yourownfear
    Originally posted by Cymdai
    Originally posted by yourownfear
    I find it funny that people talk about how easy the game is when less then 1% of players have cleared Coil turn 5. Most servers haven't even seen turn 4 and yet we have people talking about how easy the game is. Cant complain about how easy the game is when you haven't cleared all the content the game offers...

    I don't think that's entirely true. Treat it like you go out to eat at a restaurant; let's say it's a negative experience.

    - You arrive at the restaurant and they're slow to seat you.

    - Upon being seated, no one serves you for 20 minutes, not even for water

    - You order an appetizer, and it comes out cold, and after a half an hour

    - You order an entree, and then it arrives but it's just very plain and average in taste

    - Throughout the meal, you receive no real service of any kind

    - You decide not to get dessert

     

    That's kinda how FFXIV is, in a way. If you play through almost the entire game, and you're dissatisfied, you're dissatisfied. You've played enough of it to know what it's about. Having 1 instance that you haven't done =/= not being able to form a valid opinion about the rest of the game. Sometimes, you don't need dessert to know about what's on the menu.

    I talking directly about people saying the game is too easy. What game isn't easy leveling? The actual end game content is where they put content that is supposed to challenge you. They don't put ultra challenging content in the leveling process because then only the hardcore would be able to play the game.

    For a game which is too easy we just wiped 4 times on last boss . I think its easy but unfortunately the 2 other players who died didn't think it was easy . I guess some people aren't as good as others .

  • RaxeonRaxeon cedar falls, IAPosts: 2,090Member Uncommon
    yoshis all about endgame so he made the leveling some what easy have fung etting ally our gear throw ak by november
  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by skyexile

    If the game is so easy then why are people paying to have guilds take them through to get their relics done?

    They are lazy or anti-social?

    To turn that around, you are basically saying that the content is easy enough that guilds can carry bad players who are buying updates and still complete it.

    A challenging game would require every group slot being filled and played at an optimal level.

  • skyexileskyexile MelbournePosts: 692Member


    Originally posted by LeGrosGamer
    It's funny no one is pointing this out, but in regards of gear, yes gearing up is pointless since the monsters will do damage relative to your level.  Keep the same gear let's say level 30 and face a level 35 monster. You'll have a hard time, now go away and level up to 34 and go back to the level 35 monster with the same level 30 gear.  Notice how weak the monster is hitting you and how your hitting somewhat harder?   It's like the game is based on level vs level and gear has barely no effect.  Level up to 40 and go back to that level 35 monster with the same level 30 gear, and the monster will be missing you and doing way less damage.    It's just something I noticed and found weird.    It reminds me a lot of Age of Conan when it first released, the equipment was so out of whack that everyone was level 40+ with level 10 gear, since gear back then had no real effect on the out come of a battle.   For the gold spammers, yes they do spam but after black listing them I don't get any spam for a few days so it ain't as bad as people say.  Those players that complain are those that barely play 2 hours a day, I can understand that when they log in they get flooded by gold spammers.    I am enjoying FF14 with my White mage and Summoner level 50 and now working on my crafting, and they are releasing the first expansion by the end of the year, I don't think it's confirmed yet but they did write about it a week or 2 ago.
    Have you like not played an MMORPG before? every MMO is like this, yes level matters and you will have a hard time killing higher level mobs, this is stuff in the "MMOs for dummies" books, your gear also plays considerably on your survivability, i have 4146HP...as DPS...also ill do about twice the DPS of a fresh 50.

    SKYeXile
    TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
    Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.

  • k11keeperk11keeper Kalama, WAPosts: 1,056Member Uncommon

    I can't say that there is any flaw in what the OP says especially about the crafting being worthless. Why spend a fortune on HQ gear with perfect materia melds when darklight is pretty much the same, free, and super easy to get?

    I will say this though for people like me who work and can't play at work and have wives and children and a limited amount of time to play this game has plenty to offer. If this was 10 years ago when I was big into ffxi I would hate this game. Back then I worked 6am-2pm mon-fri came home and played every night and all weekend long. If I was like that now I'd be extremely bored. I can just hope that they will release content and that some of these issues about the extreme ease of getting to lvl 50 will change if and when they raise the level cap. (I sincerely hope they do) Even a casual player could easily have all combat and crafts classes to 50 in 5-6 months so here is to hoping more cool stuff is to come and fast.

  • djnexusdjnexus Detroit, MIPosts: 677Member
    After reading your post OP and thinking about it all, im really glad I didnt buy this game like I was going to. When I play an MMO I like an open world, and for crafting to be worth something. This game also seems like its not a challenge. Whats up with all these newer MMOS being released? Im glad I gave fantasy mmos a rest and started trying out scifi games. I just started playing EVE Online and im enjoying it alot. At least producing things/crafting there is actually worth something along with the challenge, and pvp.
  • cyriciancyrician perthPosts: 161Member Uncommon

    Hmmm don't know how manny hours you play a day but with a steady min of 2 hours a day since launch.

     

    i have a level 28 cnj/20botinist/13 carp.

    Very early on I realised that levels don't mean much as its the quests you complete that open content .

    ohh and I love my chocobo,s .

     

    Current games;
    Star treck online
    Rift
    Eve online
    Firefall

  • LegendtriggerLegendtrigger SoestPosts: 39Member
    Originally posted by djnexus
    After reading your post OP and thinking about it all, im really glad I didnt buy this game like I was going to. When I play an MMO I like an open world, and for crafting to be worth something. This game also seems like its not a challenge. Whats up with all these newer MMOS being released? Im glad I gave fantasy mmos a rest and started trying out scifi games. I just started playing EVE Online and im enjoying it alot. At least producing things/crafting there is actually worth something along with the challenge, and pvp.

    After 50 the game is really a challenge.

    And crafting really means something in this game, as it is really needed.

    Also there is coming pvp in november big patch.

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by djnexus
    After reading your post OP and thinking about it all, im really glad I didnt buy this game like I was going to. When I play an MMO I like an open world, and for crafting to be worth something. This game also seems like its not a challenge. Whats up with all these newer MMOS being released? Im glad I gave fantasy mmos a rest and started trying out scifi games. I just started playing EVE Online and im enjoying it alot. At least producing things/crafting there is actually worth something along with the challenge, and pvp.

    Good job listening to people with an agenda.

    You really deserve to miss out on the challenge and meaningful crafting.

    Granted, you said that EVE is challenging. Suddenly I have no idea wtf did I just read.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by djnexus
    After reading your post OP and thinking about it all, im really glad I didnt buy this game like I was going to. When I play an MMO I like an open world, and for crafting to be worth something. This game also seems like its not a challenge. Whats up with all these newer MMOS being released? Im glad I gave fantasy mmos a rest and started trying out scifi games. I just started playing EVE Online and im enjoying it alot. At least producing things/crafting there is actually worth something along with the challenge, and pvp.

    Good job listening to people with an agenda.

    You really deserve to miss out on the challenge and meaningful crafting.

    Granted, you said that EVE is challenging. Suddenly I have no idea wtf did I just read.

    EVE is challenging..way more than FFXIV. I don't know what is so confusing about what he said?

  • traplinextraplinex vancouver, BCPosts: 14Member

    I'd have to agree, I picked this game up yesterday and can't even be bothered with it after 8 hours..nothing interesting in this that other games are offering entirely for free.

    Considering how mind numbing the combat is and the lack of utility type abilities that could at least add some kind of movement or action in the combat..I mean where are the teleports, leaps, charges, knockbacks etc..I kind of feel like I'm playing a perfect world asian grinder with a few cutscenes and some final fantasy music.

    As far as the story goes, the cutscenes are in need of voice acting, and the writing isn't all that great..

    I don't think it will totally fade, there will definetly be server merges after the free month is over.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by traplinex

    I'd have to agree, I picked this game up yesterday and can't even be bothered with it after 8 hours..nothing interesting in this that other games are offering entirely for free.

    Considering how mind numbing the combat is and the lack of utility type abilities that could at least add some kind of movement or action in the combat..I mean where are the teleports, leaps, charges, knockbacks etc..I kind of feel like I'm playing a perfect world asian grinder with a few cutscenes and some final fantasy music.

    As far as the story goes, the cutscenes are in need of voice acting, and the writing isn't all that great..

    I don't think it will totally fade, there will definetly be server merges after the free month is over.

    Translation: "Nothing I find interesting after I have played for 8 hours".

     

    Curious though: why do you not find the crafting interesting?

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

    EVE is challenging..way more than FFXIV. I don't know what is so confusing about what he said?

    I'm not surprised you don't know, as you said the same thing.

    To me that explains a lot.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • NilenyaNilenya TMIPosts: 364Member Uncommon

    Im not having problems selling the things Im crafting, but OP needs to look at what things, other than finished items he can craft.

     

    I am however having issues with repeating the same dungeons over and over and over ad naseum for tomes. I am not happy with the grind being so repetitive.

    I remember grinding AAs in EQ, possibly a grind one could say was never ending in as so much AAs didnt lose their appeal with new content, which items usually do as newer ones are introduced, and still I didnt find it boring. - Because the grind in those days took place in a social setting with time for chatting and laughs. - These days, the grind is basically speedruns, and people getting obnoxious if a little chat and fun adds to the time for running through the same old dungeon. - I dont get the appeal of that. I am bored with it. 

    So I dont think the game has so much appeal as I had hoped. 

     

    Also, I dont think its a good thing that one has to advertise the longevity of end game by stating how many months of tome grind (in the same dungeons or fates) people have to do to get the best gear. - Is it really something to emphasize as a good thing, that most players will have to do the same tome grind for 3+ months to get better gear. And why are we ok with that being endgame. - Yuk.

  • actionreactionactionreaction Kalispell, MTPosts: 82Member

    Good post OP, pretty much sums up most of the new generation of MMORPG's.

     

    and to all the people saying of course there is players who sink 6 hours a day into a game and finish it fast... well when half the population does that, and the other half who spend half hour/hour a day on weekdays playing,

    and they both complete all content and feel unsatisfied, well you have your answer.

     

    and yea, crafting is pretty worthless, best crafting systems I've seen in games are ones where every bit of equipment is created from players ( EVE, SWG ) creating a awesome economy.

     

    and ones where craftings is sparse, and niche ( Asheron's Call ), where most players don't train Lockpick, because you have limited amount of skill credits, but those who do get called on do Carve keys in the Market, go on quests with others to unlock doors, ect and AC had a lot of Niche craftings, where it was useful from Start of the game, all the way through, and alot of the players might forgoe a craft for more defensive or offensive skills, or magics, but if you had a craft, you generally we're needed.

    Like in AC, if you had armor tinkering, weapon tinkers skills, magic items tinkering, and each one of those is absolutely needed, one needed to apply Steel to there armor to raise it's Armor level, or Iron to weapons to raise damage, or Brass to weapons to raise % melee defense. Magic tink for imbueing them with special properties. There was a plethora of different combinations, and each could be uniquely applied to situations through out the game depending on your play style.

     

     

     

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by actionreaction
    the other half who spend half hour/hour a day on weekdays playing,

    and they both complete all content and feel unsatisfied, well you have your answer.

     

    and yea, crafting is pretty worthless, best crafting systems I've seen in games are ones where every bit of equipment is created from players ( EVE, SWG ) creating a awesome economy.

    Lol speak for yourself. I don't see the majority of people finishing all the content anytime soon. The game is packed with stuff to do but also lets you skip most of it instead of forcing it down your throat.

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • actionreactionactionreaction Kalispell, MTPosts: 82Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by actionreaction
    the other half who spend half hour/hour a day on weekdays playing,

    and they both complete all content and feel unsatisfied, well you have your answer.

     

    and yea, crafting is pretty worthless, best crafting systems I've seen in games are ones where every bit of equipment is created from players ( EVE, SWG ) creating a awesome economy.

    Lol speak for yourself. I don't see the majority of people finishing all the content anytime soon. The game is packed with stuff to do but also lets you skip most of it instead of forcing it down your throat.

    I believe you are incorrect, it's just like Diablo 2, eventually you are going to get burned out on doings the lame things inbetween 1-50, and think you need to powerlevel to max level, with Baal runs, or Cow runs, whatever.

     

    But sadly with this game, both the path and the end are quite boring and lack depth.

  • Soki123Soki123 Kelowna, BCPosts: 1,479Member Uncommon
    I remember the release of FFXI in Japan. The same thing was said about that game. Well it was, and still is pretty damn successful. FFXIV will do just fine and one thing SE does well, and that is content updates. Not just small little things.
  • PpiperPpiper Horsham, PAPosts: 648Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by actionreaction
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by actionreaction
    the other half who spend half hour/hour a day on weekdays playing,

    and they both complete all content and feel unsatisfied, well you have your answer.

     

    and yea, crafting is pretty worthless, best crafting systems I've seen in games are ones where every bit of equipment is created from players ( EVE, SWG ) creating a awesome economy.

    Lol speak for yourself. I don't see the majority of people finishing all the content anytime soon. The game is packed with stuff to do but also lets you skip most of it instead of forcing it down your throat.

    I believe you are incorrect, it's just like Diablo 2, eventually you are going to get burned out on doings the lame things inbetween 1-50, and think you need to powerlevel to max level, with Baal runs, or Cow runs, whatever.

     

    But sadly with this game, both the path and the end are quite boring and lack depth.

    I sadly agree and the comparison with Baal runs is correct.

  • AmbrosiaAmorAmbrosiaAmor Miami, FLPosts: 915Member
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
     

    You really deserve to miss out on the challenge.

     

    Hardcores are already on Bahamut Coil #4-#5. Some of those very same endgame free companies already had everything on farm status by week 2 or 3. For groups like that the only thing challenging are the later stages of that instance/dungeon. For semi-hardcore/mid-core players the only challenging at this point is Titan's arena and Bahamut's coil. Casuals "probably" will never get to Bahamut's Coil (without the help of newly introduced higher ilvl items) so chances are their most difficult encounter will most likely be Titan's arena.

     

    This is very typical of almost every single themepark MMO that has released in the past 5 years or so. You usually have 1-2 zones/dungeons/instances that are challenging with the rest being... well "almost" handed to you. What do you consider challenging in the game? Please don't be like Murugan and others who said that the low level dungeons were very challenging or that the Ifrit fight is challenging. And why would he deserve anything in "missing out" this challenge?

    image

  • AmbrosiaAmorAmbrosiaAmor Miami, FLPosts: 915Member
    Originally posted by MindTrigger

    It's almost like the MMO industry has completely lost its marbles.  Consider how many games have released now with this ultra casual MMO model, and either failed outright, or had mediocre results.  They just keep doing it over and over and over again, spending tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.  Very few of them are viable long-term games, and many times, the companies themselves are struggling internally to keep their games afloat.

    I don't know.  At this point I have to assume any company that releases yet another casual, solo-focused theme park game is just operating from a position of complete willful ignorance. 

     

    Either willful ignorance or realizing too late and are just trying to make some of that money back before making the switch (most likely what will happen to TESO) or eventually shut down (like the announcement of Warhammer Online this week). It doesn't take a crystal ball or anything of the sort to see what the trend has been in the past 5 years and how future games will most likely fall into the same vicious cycle. At this point in time there are only 10 MMORPGs that operate exclusively using the P2P business model out of the 600 online titles. 7 of those games were released prior to 2005. Only 3 games released post 2005 use the P2P model as their sole source of revenue.

     

    DarkFall 2009
    The Hammers End 2013
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 2013

     

    EDIT: Forgot to add the link.

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5965024#5965024

     

    The rest of the games that released using the P2P business model after 2005? They either shut down, went F2P or went F2P and P2W. In almost every case server merges ended up being quite severe. I've talked about half a dozen points in the past that companies continue to make (the same mistakes over and over again), but this whole idea of streamlining these games to the point of making them so casual/single-duo player-minded/lack of content is usually one of the top three reasons as to why so many people leave these games around the 3-6 month mark.

     

    Originally posted by KingAlkaiser

    AmbrosiaAmor

    I love that pic you posted (the final fantasy 11 blm vs ff14 blm ) it completely sums up how i feel about ff14 combat system it makes it look like developers think players are too stupid to have a variety of things to do or anything complex, ff14 has extreme and i mean extremely over casualised/simplified combat/over all game/etc as explained so much throughout this thread and forum.

     I miss variety and complexity.

     

    I agree wholeheartedly. The picture to me isn't just about FFXIV though. It is symbolic of "almost" every themepark MMORPG released in the past 5 years. Don't get me wrong, each of these heavily casualised generic themepark MMO do offer one or two and in some extreme rare instances three difficult/challenging arenas/zones/dungeons/bosses within the first 6 months of release. But after that? Hmm...

    image

  • actionreactionactionreaction Kalispell, MTPosts: 82Member

    Check out this AC ( described the game above and here ) Combat video, how you like dodging arrows, dodging spells, jumping to perch, hiding behind trees, ect? :)

     

    video

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

    EVE is challenging..way more than FFXIV. I don't know what is so confusing about what he said?

    I'm not surprised you don't know, as you said the same thing.

    To me that explains a lot.

    That only explains one thing  (not a lot) that you are trying to tell us that FFXIV is more challenging than EVE? since you are being so vague, it is a safe guess to make. And if that is true..i would like to have whatever you are smoking.

  • TissmogiTissmogi Portland, OHPosts: 177Member
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by djnexus
    After reading your post OP and thinking about it all, im really glad I didnt buy this game like I was going to. When I play an MMO I like an open world, and for crafting to be worth something. This game also seems like its not a challenge. Whats up with all these newer MMOS being released? Im glad I gave fantasy mmos a rest and started trying out scifi games. I just started playing EVE Online and im enjoying it alot. At least producing things/crafting there is actually worth something along with the challenge, and pvp.

    Good job listening to people with an agenda.

    You really deserve to miss out on the challenge and meaningful crafting.

    Granted, you said that EVE is challenging. Suddenly I have no idea wtf did I just read.

    EVE is challenging..way more than FFXIV. I don't know what is so confusing about what he said?

    EvE is a spreadsheet game where fights are decided before they happen. There is next to no skill involved in PvP. People only PvP with you if they know they will win / have the better ship/equipment, If they don't they will run. Big fights are just blobs where nothing really matters and all you hope is that you survive long enough to get  a few shots off.

    Crafting, you basically just need to pay for a few years waiting to get your skills up, drop a tower to produce and again, pay your monthly while you wait for the items to complete. It's boring like nothing else!

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,989Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tissmogi
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Hyanmen
    Originally posted by djnexus
    After reading your post OP and thinking about it all, im really glad I didnt buy this game like I was going to. When I play an MMO I like an open world, and for crafting to be worth something. This game also seems like its not a challenge. Whats up with all these newer MMOS being released? Im glad I gave fantasy mmos a rest and started trying out scifi games. I just started playing EVE Online and im enjoying it alot. At least producing things/crafting there is actually worth something along with the challenge, and pvp.

    Good job listening to people with an agenda.

    You really deserve to miss out on the challenge and meaningful crafting.

    Granted, you said that EVE is challenging. Suddenly I have no idea wtf did I just read.

    EVE is challenging..way more than FFXIV. I don't know what is so confusing about what he said?

    EvE is a spreadsheet game where fights are decided before they happen. There is next to no skill involved in PvP. People only PvP with you if they know they will win / have the better ship/equipment, If they don't they will run. Big fights are just blobs where nothing really matters and all you hope is that you survive long enough to get  a few shots off.

    Crafting, you basically just need to pay for a few years waiting to get your skills up, drop a tower to produce and again, pay your monthly while you wait for the items to complete. It's boring like nothing else!

    Someone was really playing EVE all wrong.  But not a conversation for this thread.

    Regarding the OP, this game will go like most, after the rush dies down the fans will stick around for many years to come and life will go on.

    Funny how that works.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

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