No...Because even back then I found those game horrible, tedious, grindfests...And to play them I had to go above and beyond with computer requirements and networking, I had to get an ISDN connection because dialup was all that was available. So I had to jerry rig two dial up lines together basically with this funky box thing and a german ISP provider in the area. And it cost a lot....
Furthermore it was like having a second job, a boring repeatitive job that made me want to claw my eyes out...
The only redeeming quality was that people were more social. And that is it....I have never and will never look back at older gaming with some kinda nostalgic fondness..EVER.
To me, there is no redeeming quality. I didn't need games to be social.
No...Because even back then I found those game horrible, tedious, grindfests...And to play them I had to go above and beyond with computer requirements and networking, I had to get an ISDN connection because dialup was all that was available. So I had to jerry rig two dial up lines together basically with this funky box thing and a german ISP provider in the area. And it cost a lot....
Furthermore it was like having a second job, a boring repeatitive job that made me want to claw my eyes out...
The only redeeming quality was that people were more social. And that is it....I have never and will never look back at older gaming with some kinda nostalgic fondness..EVER.
To me, there is no redeeming quality. I didn't need games to be social.
No redeeming quality at all Nari?
We are pretty much the same age. Grew up in the same world, playing wooden swords, cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians in the back yard. Experienced a brand new game called "Pong". Played craptastic games on an Atari 2600 and imagined what could be.
The redeeming qualities for me is that I don't think the money was the #1 reason for the development of these early MMO's. I believe the #1 reason was to realize a dream.
I absolutely don't agree. The player marketplace is not the same today as it was back then. People need to stop pretending that it is. As soon as MMOs went mainstream, the old-school players were completely dwarfed by the incoming mainstream playerbase. There just aren't enough old-school players to make that kind of game financially viable anymore.
The genie is out of the bottle, it's never going to go back in, no matter how many people wish it would happen.
Agreed those good old days are long gone. Mainstrream killed the genre. It used to be only adult Computer geeks that played mmo's then Wow came out.
No...Because even back then I found those game horrible, tedious, grindfests...And to play them I had to go above and beyond with computer requirements and networking, I had to get an ISDN connection because dialup was all that was available. So I had to jerry rig two dial up lines together basically with this funky box thing and a german ISP provider in the area. And it cost a lot....
Furthermore it was like having a second job, a boring repeatitive job that made me want to claw my eyes out...
The only redeeming quality was that people were more social. And that is it....I have never and will never look back at older gaming with some kinda nostalgic fondness..EVER.
If you didnt enjoy those things then you do not enjoy playing mmorpg's plain and simple.
The redeeming qualities for me is that I don't think the money was the #1 reason for the development of these early MMO's. I believe the #1 reason was to realize a dream.
Nah i think they want to make money as much as they do today.
But, personally, i don't really. I care about if a game is fun for me. Whether the dev made it because of greed, noble intention, idealism .. won't change if a game is fun (to me), and certainly won't change whether i am going to play it.
No...Because even back then I found those game horrible, tedious, grindfests...And to play them I had to go above and beyond with computer requirements and networking, I had to get an ISDN connection because dialup was all that was available. So I had to jerry rig two dial up lines together basically with this funky box thing and a german ISP provider in the area. And it cost a lot....
Furthermore it was like having a second job, a boring repeatitive job that made me want to claw my eyes out...
The only redeeming quality was that people were more social. And that is it....I have never and will never look back at older gaming with some kinda nostalgic fondness..EVER.
If you didnt enjoy those things then you do not enjoy playing mmorpg's plain and simple.
Really?
I don't enjoy grindfest and stuff ... and i just enjoyed a MMORPG called marvel heroes.
No...Because even back then I found those game horrible, tedious, grindfests...And to play them I had to go above and beyond with computer requirements and networking, I had to get an ISDN connection because dialup was all that was available. So I had to jerry rig two dial up lines together basically with this funky box thing and a german ISP provider in the area. And it cost a lot....
Furthermore it was like having a second job, a boring repeatitive job that made me want to claw my eyes out...
The only redeeming quality was that people were more social. And that is it....I have never and will never look back at older gaming with some kinda nostalgic fondness..EVER.
If you didnt enjoy those things then you do not enjoy playing mmorpg's plain and simple.
Really?
I don't enjoy grindfest and stuff ... and i just enjoyed a MMORPG called marvel heroes.
Explain that contradiction.
Thats what this whole thread is about, the mmorpg genre has not evolved it has transformed into something unrecognizable by those that played the originating mmorpg's. Current games serve their purpose and I wont deny some of them arent fun because they are. As games they are good, as mmorpg's they lack.
No...Because even back then I found those game horrible, tedious, grindfests...And to play them I had to go above and beyond with computer requirements and networking, I had to get an ISDN connection because dialup was all that was available. So I had to jerry rig two dial up lines together basically with this funky box thing and a german ISP provider in the area. And it cost a lot....
Furthermore it was like having a second job, a boring repeatitive job that made me want to claw my eyes out...
The only redeeming quality was that people were more social. And that is it....I have never and will never look back at older gaming with some kinda nostalgic fondness..EVER.
If you didnt enjoy those things then you do not enjoy playing mmorpg's plain and simple.
Really?
I don't enjoy grindfest and stuff ... and i just enjoyed a MMORPG called marvel heroes.
Explain that contradiction.
Don't have to explain that, marvel heroes is not a mmorpg. So therefore you didnt enjoy a mmorpg.
No...Because even back then I found those game horrible, tedious, grindfests...And to play them I had to go above and beyond with computer requirements and networking, I had to get an ISDN connection because dialup was all that was available. So I had to jerry rig two dial up lines together basically with this funky box thing and a german ISP provider in the area. And it cost a lot....
Furthermore it was like having a second job, a boring repeatitive job that made me want to claw my eyes out...
The only redeeming quality was that people were more social. And that is it....I have never and will never look back at older gaming with some kinda nostalgic fondness..EVER.
If you didnt enjoy those things then you do not enjoy playing mmorpg's plain and simple.
Really?
I don't enjoy grindfest and stuff ... and i just enjoyed a MMORPG called marvel heroes.
Explain that contradiction.
Thats what this whole thread is about, the mmorpg genre has not evolved it has transformed into something unrecognizable by those that played the originating mmorpg's. Current games serve their purpose and I wont deny some of them arent fun because they are. As games they are good, as mmorpg's they lack.
So are you going to argue what a "MMO" should be?
Personally i don't believe in such things. I look at a game, and decide if it is fun for me. Genre does not matter. If a "MMO" plays like a fun ARPG to me, i play it as such.
If a "MMO" is not fun to me (particular with grinds, and forced social, or down-time), i won't play it.
No...Because even back then I found those game horrible, tedious, grindfests...And to play them I had to go above and beyond with computer requirements and networking, I had to get an ISDN connection because dialup was all that was available. So I had to jerry rig two dial up lines together basically with this funky box thing and a german ISP provider in the area. And it cost a lot....
Furthermore it was like having a second job, a boring repeatitive job that made me want to claw my eyes out...
The only redeeming quality was that people were more social. And that is it....I have never and will never look back at older gaming with some kinda nostalgic fondness..EVER.
If you didnt enjoy those things then you do not enjoy playing mmorpg's plain and simple.
Really?
I don't enjoy grindfest and stuff ... and i just enjoyed a MMORPG called marvel heroes.
Explain that contradiction.
Don't have to explain that, marvel heroes is not a mmorpg. So therefore you didnt enjoy a mmorpg.
It is listed as one here, and many other MMO sites. Are you going to argue the definition of MMOs again?
How about STO? I enjoyed that too. Is that not a MMO too?
No...Because even back then I found those game horrible, tedious, grindfests...And to play them I had to go above and beyond with computer requirements and networking, I had to get an ISDN connection because dialup was all that was available. So I had to jerry rig two dial up lines together basically with this funky box thing and a german ISP provider in the area. And it cost a lot....
Furthermore it was like having a second job, a boring repeatitive job that made me want to claw my eyes out...
The only redeeming quality was that people were more social. And that is it....I have never and will never look back at older gaming with some kinda nostalgic fondness..EVER.
If you didnt enjoy those things then you do not enjoy playing mmorpg's plain and simple.
Alright boss man, I guess if you're the grand jury on things I enjoy and all that.........Oh wait, you're not....Funny isn't it?
As I said before I liked the social notion, in Everquest in particular I liked camping in lower Guk and the such, chatting with the other players camping about...It was nice and social, an actual community. I didn't have to like the mechanics to like the MMO part of MMORPGs, the massive population that brought about community is a feature....
I do however like newer more convenient games that aren't a bloody waste of my life and time, well they're still a waste but they feel more productive.
--Custom Rig: Pyraxis--- NZXT Phantom 410 Case Intel Core i5-4690 Processor - Quad Core, 6MB Smart Cache, 3.5GHz Asus Sabertooth Z87 Motherboard Asus GeForce GTX 760 Video Card - 2GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0 Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 16GB
This sites definitions of mmos is so loose you can basically apply cod and battlefield games as mmos. This site should change its name to onlinegames.com personally because that is what it basically covers. It also lists and talks about things like leage of legends and world of tanks as mmos. Both are great games but neither is a mmorpg. Marvel Heroes is not even a rpg if you can only play premade characters from the marvel universe. Isnt it more of a moba.
The redeeming qualities for me is that I don't think the money was the #1 reason for the development of these early MMO's. I believe the #1 reason was to realize a dream.
Nah i think they want to make money as much as they do today.
But, personally, i don't really. I care about if a game is fun for me. Whether the dev made it because of greed, noble intention, idealism .. won't change if a game is fun (to me), and certainly won't change whether i am going to play it.
Lets put it this way:
The redeeming quality for me: Is that I believe that they designed the games around what they believed to be fun, rather then what they believed would bring in the most cash.
If the cash was #1 they would not have made an MMO as you would have been severely limiting your market at that time.
Greed, Noble intention, Idealism has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Originally posted by hardicon This sites definitions of mmos is so loose you can basically apply cod and battlefield games as mmos. This site should change its name to onlinegames.com personally because that is what it basically covers. It also lists and talks about things like leage of legends and world of tanks as mmos. Both are great games but neither is a mmorpg. Marvel Heroes is not even a rpg if you can only play premade characters from the marvel universe. Isnt it more of a moba.
If you can get the whole industry, this and other MMO sites to use a new label, i will use it too. Until that day, i use "MMO" because it is convenient.
And no, Marvel Heroes is not a MOBA. MOBAs are pvp instanced games (how the label is typically used).
The redeeming quality for me: Is that I believe that they designed the games around what they believed to be fun, rather then what they believed would bring in the most cash.
The redeeming quality for me: Is that I believe that they designed the games around what they believed to be fun, rather then what they believed would bring in the most cash.
Why would i care what they believe to be fun?
I only care about what I believe to be fun.
It's kinda like Grandma's cookies versus Mr. Christie
Originally posted by hardicon This sites definitions of mmos is so loose you can basically apply cod and battlefield games as mmos. This site should change its name to onlinegames.com personally because that is what it basically covers. It also lists and talks about things like leage of legends and world of tanks as mmos. Both are great games but neither is a mmorpg. Marvel Heroes is not even a rpg if you can only play premade characters from the marvel universe. Isnt it more of a moba.
If you can get the whole industry, this and other MMO sites to use a new label, i will use it too. Until that day, i use "MMO" because it is convenient.
And no, Marvel Heroes is not a MOBA. MOBAs are pvp instanced games (how the label is typically used).
I got turned off from Marvel when they said you cant make your own toons but have to use the marvel universe toons that are all premade. Kind of a wtf moment for me but as far as a label I don't need a new label. I normally don't get too caught up in what people want to label their games. Was just pointing out that playing a online single player game with other people is not the same as playing and enjoying a true mmorpg.
Originally posted by hardicon This sites definitions of mmos is so loose you can basically apply cod and battlefield games as mmos. This site should change its name to onlinegames.com personally because that is what it basically covers. It also lists and talks about things like leage of legends and world of tanks as mmos. Both are great games but neither is a mmorpg. Marvel Heroes is not even a rpg if you can only play premade characters from the marvel universe. Isnt it more of a moba.
If you can get the whole industry, this and other MMO sites to use a new label, i will use it too. Until that day, i use "MMO" because it is convenient.
And no, Marvel Heroes is not a MOBA. MOBAs are pvp instanced games (how the label is typically used).
I got turned off from Marvel when they said you cant make your own toons but have to use the marvel universe toons that are all premade. Kind of a wtf moment for me but as far as a label I don't need a new label. I normally don't get too caught up in what people want to label their games. Was just pointing out that playing a online single player game with other people is not the same as playing and enjoying a true mmorpg.
Sure, you have your preference and i have mine.
In fact, i am very excited that i can play marvel characters. I don't play DC Universe precisely because i have to play a batman knock-off and i cannot play batman himself.
Well, like it or not, many games labeled as MMORPG today can be played as solo/SP online games, and i do that all the time.
I don't particularly care what a "true" MMORPG is. Different people here would argue about it all day anyway. The point is that i will continue to use the "MMO" label, because it is convenient to refer to this category of games, and some of which can be (and i do) played as solo games.
You assume that market research is flawless and that people know exactly what they would enjoy in different situations without actually being in those situations.
The market research demonstrably exists, it's been done by companies who know how to reach these conclusions. You have nothing but your own assumptions.
You assume that market research is flawless and that people know exactly what they would enjoy in different situations without actually being in those situations.
The market research demonstrably exists, it's been done by companies who know how to reach these conclusions. You have nothing but your own assumptions.
Guess which one I trust more?
Market research does not have to be flawless to be useful. Secondly, market research is at least information gathered by professionals ... which i will trust 100x more than random opinions on the internet.
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour You assume that market research is flawless and that people know exactly what they would enjoy in different situations without actually being in those situations.
They assume even more than that; that MMO creators actually do market research; when it is quite obvious that they do not. Can any gamer here say they've been contacted by a market research firm asking MMO related questions?
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour You assume that market research is flawless and that people know exactly what they would enjoy in different situations without actually being in those situations.
They assume even more than that; that MMO creators actually do market research; when it is quite obvious that they do not. Can any gamer here say they've been contacted by a market research firm asking MMO related questions?
Exactly this; you don't have gamers doing this research. You have suits that try an gather what the casual players want; which does not help the genre. Most casuals could care less about deep gameplay as long as on the surface they get their flashy, new, famous IP game.
Mmorpg use to be all about creating the best online virtual experience you could, but casuals came in and made it all about themselves. One good thing about casuals though; is that some become hardcore players.
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour You assume that market research is flawless and that people know exactly what they would enjoy in different situations without actually being in those situations.
They assume even more than that; that MMO creators actually do market research; when it is quite obvious that they do not. Can any gamer here say they've been contacted by a market research firm asking MMO related questions?
Exactly this; you don't have gamers doing this research. You have suits that try an gather what the casual players want; which does not help the genre. Most casuals could care less about deep gameplay as long as on the surface they get their flashy, new, famous IP game.
Mmorpg use to be all about creating the best online virtual experience you could, but casuals came in and made it all about themselves. One good thing about casuals though; is that some become hardcore players.
Well done OP. Now if we can only get the developers and publishers on the same page with this train of thought we would be in a better genre. If the greedy would actually put game first instead of business model first we would be ok. Less people would be posting on forums and more people would be playing, enjoying their hobby.
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour You assume that market research is flawless and that people know exactly what they would enjoy in different situations without actually being in those situations.
They assume even more than that; that MMO creators actually do market research; when it is quite obvious that they do not. Can any gamer here say they've been contacted by a market research firm asking MMO related questions?
They buy marketing research from companies like newzoo and superdata. Don't tell me you think those companies gather MMO data just for fun.
Comments
To me, there is no redeeming quality. I didn't need games to be social.
No redeeming quality at all Nari?
We are pretty much the same age. Grew up in the same world, playing wooden swords, cops and robbers, cowboys and Indians in the back yard. Experienced a brand new game called "Pong". Played craptastic games on an Atari 2600 and imagined what could be.
The redeeming qualities for me is that I don't think the money was the #1 reason for the development of these early MMO's. I believe the #1 reason was to realize a dream.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Agreed those good old days are long gone. Mainstrream killed the genre. It used to be only adult Computer geeks that played mmo's then Wow came out.
If you didnt enjoy those things then you do not enjoy playing mmorpg's plain and simple.
Nah i think they want to make money as much as they do today.
But, personally, i don't really. I care about if a game is fun for me. Whether the dev made it because of greed, noble intention, idealism .. won't change if a game is fun (to me), and certainly won't change whether i am going to play it.
Really?
I don't enjoy grindfest and stuff ... and i just enjoyed a MMORPG called marvel heroes.
Explain that contradiction.
Thats what this whole thread is about, the mmorpg genre has not evolved it has transformed into something unrecognizable by those that played the originating mmorpg's. Current games serve their purpose and I wont deny some of them arent fun because they are. As games they are good, as mmorpg's they lack.
Don't have to explain that, marvel heroes is not a mmorpg. So therefore you didnt enjoy a mmorpg.
So are you going to argue what a "MMO" should be?
Personally i don't believe in such things. I look at a game, and decide if it is fun for me. Genre does not matter. If a "MMO" plays like a fun ARPG to me, i play it as such.
If a "MMO" is not fun to me (particular with grinds, and forced social, or down-time), i won't play it.
It is listed as one here, and many other MMO sites. Are you going to argue the definition of MMOs again?
How about STO? I enjoyed that too. Is that not a MMO too?
Alright boss man, I guess if you're the grand jury on things I enjoy and all that.........Oh wait, you're not....Funny isn't it?
As I said before I liked the social notion, in Everquest in particular I liked camping in lower Guk and the such, chatting with the other players camping about...It was nice and social, an actual community. I didn't have to like the mechanics to like the MMO part of MMORPGs, the massive population that brought about community is a feature....
I do however like newer more convenient games that aren't a bloody waste of my life and time, well they're still a waste but they feel more productive.
--Custom Rig: Pyraxis---
NZXT Phantom 410 Case
Intel Core i5-4690 Processor - Quad Core, 6MB Smart Cache, 3.5GHz
Asus Sabertooth Z87 Motherboard
Asus GeForce GTX 760 Video Card - 2GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0
Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 16GB
Lets put it this way:
The redeeming quality for me: Is that I believe that they designed the games around what they believed to be fun, rather then what they believed would bring in the most cash.
If the cash was #1 they would not have made an MMO as you would have been severely limiting your market at that time.
Greed, Noble intention, Idealism has absolutely nothing to do with it.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
If you can get the whole industry, this and other MMO sites to use a new label, i will use it too. Until that day, i use "MMO" because it is convenient.
And no, Marvel Heroes is not a MOBA. MOBAs are pvp instanced games (how the label is typically used).
Why would i care what they believe to be fun?
I only care about what I believe to be fun.
It's kinda like Grandma's cookies versus Mr. Christie
Buts it might be over your head
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I got turned off from Marvel when they said you cant make your own toons but have to use the marvel universe toons that are all premade. Kind of a wtf moment for me but as far as a label I don't need a new label. I normally don't get too caught up in what people want to label their games. Was just pointing out that playing a online single player game with other people is not the same as playing and enjoying a true mmorpg.
Sure, you have your preference and i have mine.
In fact, i am very excited that i can play marvel characters. I don't play DC Universe precisely because i have to play a batman knock-off and i cannot play batman himself.
Well, like it or not, many games labeled as MMORPG today can be played as solo/SP online games, and i do that all the time.
I don't particularly care what a "true" MMORPG is. Different people here would argue about it all day anyway. The point is that i will continue to use the "MMO" label, because it is convenient to refer to this category of games, and some of which can be (and i do) played as solo games.
The market research demonstrably exists, it's been done by companies who know how to reach these conclusions. You have nothing but your own assumptions.
Guess which one I trust more?
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Market research does not have to be flawless to be useful. Secondly, market research is at least information gathered by professionals ... which i will trust 100x more than random opinions on the internet.
They assume even more than that; that MMO creators actually do market research; when it is quite obvious that they do not. Can any gamer here say they've been contacted by a market research firm asking MMO related questions?
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Exactly this; you don't have gamers doing this research. You have suits that try an gather what the casual players want; which does not help the genre. Most casuals could care less about deep gameplay as long as on the surface they get their flashy, new, famous IP game.
Mmorpg use to be all about creating the best online virtual experience you could, but casuals came in and made it all about themselves. One good thing about casuals though; is that some become hardcore players.
MurderHerd
Wow. Arclan and isilith hit the nail on the head.
They buy marketing research from companies like newzoo and superdata. Don't tell me you think those companies gather MMO data just for fun.