I still remember the endless posts about how WoW stood for "Waiting on Warhammer",
How'd that work out?
It's too bad, really, for all that Mythic did a lot of things wrong and left the game a buggy mess even a year after release, they did a lot of things right. It was the first, and to date the only, MMO where I've enjoyed the PvP -- especially important as, by and large the PvE was broken and not very interesting when it did work.
Unfortunately I think PvP is inherently limited, far more so than PvE. The majority of PvPers are forever in search of a thrill no game can give them for long -- if, given the average skill level (or, more to the point, lack thereof), at all. Add in an extremely effective anti-ganking design -- which, sadly, will probably never be in another PvP game because it chases away far too large a chunk of the "PvP" market -- and inevitably the game's lifespan was going to be fairly short. It was one of the few, if not the only, games of its type to force Wolf-vs-Wolf PvP and make the typical, and generally unsustainable,l Wolf-vs-Sheep model unworkable. I doubt we'll see its like again.
To make matters worse, there was the IP. MMO makers really need to learn to stop trying to rely on a big-name IP as a tentpole to support their game. The IP itself is a two-edge sword. Yeah, you may sell some boxes based on "Warhammer" or "Star Wars" being on them, but no matter what you do you will never, ever, ever please the majority of fans and you will inevitably attract a large collection of vitriol filled experts who feel you've shat in their lunch by not doing things exactly as they would have and who will never, ever, ever, shut up about it. It's a no-win proposition, just not worth the cost.
Honestly they should have put this one out of its misery years ago, it has been a walking corpse for far too long. Still, I'm saddened to see it go.
The game was badly done in the beginning... when I picked up this game, I though I was going to explore the WHOLE FREAKING WARHAMMER WORLD! instead I got this PvP-oriented Empire vs Chaos thing going on with limited realms to go to as you progressed, and 2 capital cities on both sides, it's kinda stupid... This game was not worth my money after spending at least a month playing this game, it does not feel great what so ever. They failed to make it great and this is their reward, a struggled to keep it alive and finally it's on it's deathbed and soon it's funeral and burial with an unnamed tombstone.
Honestly, Tier 1 at launch was some of the most fun and amazing MMO playtime I've ever experienced.
Sadly, after that is was all down hill.
I miss my Black Ork - I miss the RvR lakes when Tier 1 was super populated.
In retrospect, I think the worst decision they made on this game was world design.
Too narrow, each zone mirrored, each pairing separate... game would have functioned much, much better if it were less linear, more open world.
I should want to fight for my lands and crush those filthy Dwarves because they are my blood sworn, ancient enemy - not because they were the racial pairing chosen for my on-rails straight line progression...
Anyways, thank you EA Mythic for the good times, but shame on you for not making this game F2P a long, long time ago and finishing it / keeping it alive.
You (EA) could learn a few lessons from Square Enix and FFXIV - your name and your legacy is important - your reputation - it can be salvaged, it can be fixed. You have to put forth the effort and the $.
I played the game for nearly a year or so when it first came out. Loved my Squig Herder. One of the main problems I found though was that they never got a good handle on balancing classes. I remember for the longest time 1 BW and 1 healer could absolutely crush an entire opposing team and this lasted for 4+ months. Not sure why the dev team was so slow to react. But it was stuff like that,left unattended month after month that sapped many of our will's to play. I eventually was the last of my group of friends still playing more than once a week.
Sadly,this is yet again another case of "What might have been". Maybe it will serve as a warning to future game developers as to what not to do.
I don't understand people saying what a shame it is. I thought Warhammer Online was just trash, the Climax version just looked fantastic - from the PnP classes including Rat Catcher, to the movie clip showing a large open world in development, the various monsters and races, etc. Instead, what we got was the most incredibly linear, quest driven pile of drivel I'd ever played. The PvP was full of balance issues such as the Bright Wizard, while the combat areas were infuriating at best with pools of lava and hills that you would get stuck on.
The development should never have been taken from Climax, they had a true vision of the Warhammer world - instead, we got WoW-lite. As if WoW wasn't designed for children already, they then made a simpler version in the Warhammer Universe. I've played Warhammer since I was in my teens, from the 1st Edition Fantasy Battle to the PnP Roleplaying game. The world deserved better and if Games Workshop has decided to revoke the IP then I'm glad, perhaps we can put this embarrassment behind us and see a decent Warhammer Fantasy MMO in future days.
Not sure why EA is getting most of the blame here, it was Mythic and GW mishandling/developing the game that cost it so much in terms of content and life. GW didn't want a 3rd faction, they were quoted in saying so in one of the dev interviews. Mythic on the other hand promised so much to the players but didn't deliver. They also were terrible at balancing the game and adding new content. With all that said, I still loved the game for what it was, the best RvR game out there.
I didn't play this game at launch because it didn't have 3 factions, I ended up giving it a try several year later though. Boy was that a mistake, I ended up enjoying it a bit even with empty servers.
Such a shame seeing as there was so much potential, not un-similar to AoC and what that has become due to a horrific launch.
Haxus Council Member 21 year MMO veteran PvP Raid Leader Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
EA/Bioware/Mythic should be ashamed of themselves.
The game had its problems, but they gave up on it, and its playerbase, far too soon. The majority of games that have come out over the last several years have had problems. The difference here is that the other game companies have put legitimate effort into improving those games, while EA and Mythic decided to pull the plug on real support after about a year.
The RvR in WAR was actually a lot of fun, and the game could have been improved and salvaged.
Shame on Mythic.
You actually have it backwards. It's not the developers who abandoned the game, it was the players who abandoned the game.
Mythic bought a five-year license with Game's Workshop to make games from their Warhammer universe. None of those games worked out.
Warhammer Online was launched in 2008 and since then has shrunk to under 50,000 subs.
How could Mythic think about purchasing an expensive license again if the player base it just not there to support it? These are similar cries to why Star Wars Galaxies failed. Had there been a giant player base there they would have ran SWG and SWTOR simultaneously.... but there wasn't.
Originally posted by Robokapp WAR and its twin brother AOC are interesting case studies. they were born as WoW-Killers, and while WoW's population did take a hit, it was not due to them. so what can MMO players and developers learn from this ? the 'just like X but better' only worked once. eq-wow. it's not a good place to look for 'yet another mmo'. got to go different. if we want wow, we have wow. if we dont then we dont want 'like wow'.
Your comparison between AoC and WAR being the same is so amazingly inaccurate it makes me wonder if you played either game?
What can developers learn form this? Listen to your beta testers for starters. Second; Nothing will kill WoW, except Blizzard and not until they are good and ready.
Your opening sentence still blows my mind. I understand it is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is not often I see one so gloriously off base.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Best PvP MMO after DAOC. A release with an unfinished game was the start of the end for Warhammer, but even now the game is just amazing as a PvP MMO, someone must take the game and work in F2P version.
Too bad. I was never a diehard fan, but I did buy and play it for a few months. The game was rough, but certainly had a gritty charm about it. PvP tanks, collision detection, sword-wielding healers, coolest looking armors in any MMO to date (iMho), grudgebearers, ravens, blood, madness, and Skulls for the Skull Throne! They certainly got the dark warhammer atmosphere spot on in this game.
Even after I stopped playing, I kept checking up on it, hoping that it will go F2P. Alas! WAR, you will be missed.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Dauzqul So does this mean AoC beat out WAR? I remember the gigantic rival they both had - since they launched nearly at the same time.
Not a bad game, maybe someone will approach Mythic and buy it ?
If anyone buys anything from Mythic it should be Dark Age of Camelot. Sadly, if you posted this (and I can't blame you)...you never played Dark Age of Camelot. There's a reason why DAOC lasted 12 years.
EA/Bioware/Mythic should be ashamed of themselves.
The game had its problems, but they gave up on it, and its playerbase, far too soon. The majority of games that have come out over the last several years have had problems. The difference here is that the other game companies have put legitimate effort into improving those games, while EA and Mythic decided to pull the plug on real support after about a year.
The RvR in WAR was actually a lot of fun, and the game could have been improved and salvaged.
Shame on Mythic.
You actually have it backwards. It's not the developers who abandoned the game, it was the players who abandoned the game.
Mythic bought a five-year license with Game's Workshop to make games from their Warhammer universe. None of those games worked out.
Warhammer Online was launched in 2008 and since then has shrunk to under 50,000 subs.
How could Mythic think about purchasing an expensive license again if the player base it just not there to support it? These are similar cries to why Star Wars Galaxies failed. Had there been a giant player base there they would have ran SWG and SWTOR simultaneously.... but there wasn't.
Build a turd and players will leave in droves. Warhammer was NEVER the game to invest in. It has been and always will (in regards to Mythic) Dark Age of Camelot.
This game (Daoc) has yet to be imitated. It raised the bar so high in the industry that no one touched the concept of 3 truly unique realms, 44 classes and 24 races. And they have paid the piper, eh...
Well they squeezed out an 8 year run, better than a lot of games, not as good as others, times are changing, companies are changing, there will be casualties along the way../shrug
One of the reasons why DAoC kept my interest for so long was because of the great balance between PvE and RvR.
PvE in WAR was nothing short of a flat experience in a linear world. PvE needs a "real" world with choices of where to go to be made and a sense of exploration. The "follow this dirt path to the next group of tents as you level up" made me lose interest within the first 20 levels and quit before I hit 30.
Battlegrounds were fun for a while, but just as in WoW they grow tedious and boring. I never really got to experience real RvR in WAR and that bugs me a little, but when the rest falls short I don't see why I should bother.
These guys took a great IP and just trashed it...and i know you elitists out there prob just think i'm stupid but im sorry, the 'EA/Mythic/Bioware account merging/mash up' was so confusing that i was not actually able to log in because i had no idea what account was what...
Amazing art will not save every terrible choice made...proof positive...
maybe i'll have to try and play the tabletop games instead..'shrug'
Came to the game as a PVE carebear, that changed quickly with the first 3 hour long castle siege (and 300 players killed in my tome), the first pitched battle at the lighthouse, and the immersive stories and scenery in PVE that only a few loved.
But as they didn't plan for the end of the road at game start (like fort fights, server lag, redesign upon redesign of failed classes), it went from adrenaline rush to my first deleted character ever (Witch Elf nerf), and another disappointment in a long row of disappointments at that time: Tabula Rasa, AoC, WAR, Aion...
Comments
I still remember the endless posts about how WoW stood for "Waiting on Warhammer",
How'd that work out?
It's too bad, really, for all that Mythic did a lot of things wrong and left the game a buggy mess even a year after release, they did a lot of things right. It was the first, and to date the only, MMO where I've enjoyed the PvP -- especially important as, by and large the PvE was broken and not very interesting when it did work.
Unfortunately I think PvP is inherently limited, far more so than PvE. The majority of PvPers are forever in search of a thrill no game can give them for long -- if, given the average skill level (or, more to the point, lack thereof), at all. Add in an extremely effective anti-ganking design -- which, sadly, will probably never be in another PvP game because it chases away far too large a chunk of the "PvP" market -- and inevitably the game's lifespan was going to be fairly short. It was one of the few, if not the only, games of its type to force Wolf-vs-Wolf PvP and make the typical, and generally unsustainable,l Wolf-vs-Sheep model unworkable. I doubt we'll see its like again.
To make matters worse, there was the IP. MMO makers really need to learn to stop trying to rely on a big-name IP as a tentpole to support their game. The IP itself is a two-edge sword. Yeah, you may sell some boxes based on "Warhammer" or "Star Wars" being on them, but no matter what you do you will never, ever, ever please the majority of fans and you will inevitably attract a large collection of vitriol filled experts who feel you've shat in their lunch by not doing things exactly as they would have and who will never, ever, ever, shut up about it. It's a no-win proposition, just not worth the cost.
Honestly they should have put this one out of its misery years ago, it has been a walking corpse for far too long. Still, I'm saddened to see it go.
RIP, WAR, RIP.
The game was badly done in the beginning... when I picked up this game, I though I was going to explore the WHOLE FREAKING WARHAMMER WORLD! instead I got this PvP-oriented Empire vs Chaos thing going on with limited realms to go to as you progressed, and 2 capital cities on both sides, it's kinda stupid... This game was not worth my money after spending at least a month playing this game, it does not feel great what so ever. They failed to make it great and this is their reward, a struggled to keep it alive and finally it's on it's deathbed and soon it's funeral and burial with an unnamed tombstone.
sad day in mmo history. - wondered how F2P would of panned out for this great game.
looking forward to crusader!
Honestly, Tier 1 at launch was some of the most fun and amazing MMO playtime I've ever experienced.
Sadly, after that is was all down hill.
I miss my Black Ork - I miss the RvR lakes when Tier 1 was super populated.
In retrospect, I think the worst decision they made on this game was world design.
Too narrow, each zone mirrored, each pairing separate... game would have functioned much, much better if it were less linear, more open world.
I should want to fight for my lands and crush those filthy Dwarves because they are my blood sworn, ancient enemy - not because they were the racial pairing chosen for my on-rails straight line progression...
Anyways, thank you EA Mythic for the good times, but shame on you for not making this game F2P a long, long time ago and finishing it / keeping it alive.
You (EA) could learn a few lessons from Square Enix and FFXIV - your name and your legacy is important - your reputation - it can be salvaged, it can be fixed. You have to put forth the effort and the $.
I played the game for nearly a year or so when it first came out. Loved my Squig Herder. One of the main problems I found though was that they never got a good handle on balancing classes. I remember for the longest time 1 BW and 1 healer could absolutely crush an entire opposing team and this lasted for 4+ months. Not sure why the dev team was so slow to react. But it was stuff like that,left unattended month after month that sapped many of our will's to play. I eventually was the last of my group of friends still playing more than once a week.
Sadly,this is yet again another case of "What might have been". Maybe it will serve as a warning to future game developers as to what not to do.
I don't understand people saying what a shame it is. I thought Warhammer Online was just trash, the Climax version just looked fantastic - from the PnP classes including Rat Catcher, to the movie clip showing a large open world in development, the various monsters and races, etc. Instead, what we got was the most incredibly linear, quest driven pile of drivel I'd ever played. The PvP was full of balance issues such as the Bright Wizard, while the combat areas were infuriating at best with pools of lava and hills that you would get stuck on.
The development should never have been taken from Climax, they had a true vision of the Warhammer world - instead, we got WoW-lite. As if WoW wasn't designed for children already, they then made a simpler version in the Warhammer Universe. I've played Warhammer since I was in my teens, from the 1st Edition Fantasy Battle to the PnP Roleplaying game. The world deserved better and if Games Workshop has decided to revoke the IP then I'm glad, perhaps we can put this embarrassment behind us and see a decent Warhammer Fantasy MMO in future days.
I didn't play this game at launch because it didn't have 3 factions, I ended up giving it a try several year later though. Boy was that a mistake, I ended up enjoying it a bit even with empty servers.
Such a shame seeing as there was so much potential, not un-similar to AoC and what that has become due to a horrific launch.
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
You actually have it backwards. It's not the developers who abandoned the game, it was the players who abandoned the game.
Mythic bought a five-year license with Game's Workshop to make games from their Warhammer universe. None of those games worked out.
Warhammer Online was launched in 2008 and since then has shrunk to under 50,000 subs.
How could Mythic think about purchasing an expensive license again if the player base it just not there to support it? These are similar cries to why Star Wars Galaxies failed. Had there been a giant player base there they would have ran SWG and SWTOR simultaneously.... but there wasn't.
Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/users/thetroublmaker
Your comparison between AoC and WAR being the same is so amazingly inaccurate it makes me wonder if you played either game?
What can developers learn form this? Listen to your beta testers for starters. Second; Nothing will kill WoW, except Blizzard and not until they are good and ready.
Your opening sentence still blows my mind. I understand it is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but it is not often I see one so gloriously off base.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Go to hell!
Crusader! will rise!
Not a bad game, maybe someone will approach Mythic and buy it ?
MAGA
Too bad. I was never a diehard fan, but I did buy and play it for a few months. The game was rough, but certainly had a gritty charm about it. PvP tanks, collision detection, sword-wielding healers, coolest looking armors in any MMO to date (iMho), grudgebearers, ravens, blood, madness, and Skulls for the Skull Throne! They certainly got the dark warhammer atmosphere spot on in this game.
Even after I stopped playing, I kept checking up on it, hoping that it will go F2P. Alas! WAR, you will be missed.
Yes, indeed it does....
We warned them time and time again - did they listen? NOPE
Did they pay the price for listening to Paul Barnett instead of the fans? YES
If anyone buys anything from Mythic it should be Dark Age of Camelot. Sadly, if you posted this (and I can't blame you)...you never played Dark Age of Camelot. There's a reason why DAOC lasted 12 years.
Build a turd and players will leave in droves. Warhammer was NEVER the game to invest in. It has been and always will (in regards to Mythic) Dark Age of Camelot.
This game (Daoc) has yet to be imitated. It raised the bar so high in the industry that no one touched the concept of 3 truly unique realms, 44 classes and 24 races. And they have paid the piper, eh...
One of the reasons why DAoC kept my interest for so long was because of the great balance between PvE and RvR.
PvE in WAR was nothing short of a flat experience in a linear world. PvE needs a "real" world with choices of where to go to be made and a sense of exploration. The "follow this dirt path to the next group of tents as you level up" made me lose interest within the first 20 levels and quit before I hit 30.
Battlegrounds were fun for a while, but just as in WoW they grow tedious and boring. I never really got to experience real RvR in WAR and that bugs me a little, but when the rest falls short I don't see why I should bother.
Too bad to see it go though.
These guys took a great IP and just trashed it...and i know you elitists out there prob just think i'm stupid but im sorry, the 'EA/Mythic/Bioware account merging/mash up' was so confusing that i was not actually able to log in because i had no idea what account was what...
Amazing art will not save every terrible choice made...proof positive...
maybe i'll have to try and play the tabletop games instead..'shrug'
I rarely post here. But WAR deserves a R.I.P.
Came to the game as a PVE carebear, that changed quickly with the first 3 hour long castle siege (and 300 players killed in my tome), the first pitched battle at the lighthouse, and the immersive stories and scenery in PVE that only a few loved.
But as they didn't plan for the end of the road at game start (like fort fights, server lag, redesign upon redesign of failed classes), it went from adrenaline rush to my first deleted character ever (Witch Elf nerf), and another disappointment in a long row of disappointments at that time: Tabula Rasa, AoC, WAR, Aion...