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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Crafting Must Meet Big Expectations

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Comments

  • rahj83rahj83 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 77Member
    Crafting...without repetition? You know many blacksmiths or tailors in real life? Probably not. Know why? Because it's repeating the same thing over and over again. That's the only way you get the skills. It's boring, it's time consuming...it does not appeal to most people of the instant gratification crowd. Easier to just buy stuff already made, right?

    Real life is not much different than an mmorpg...

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  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rygard49
     

    I wouldn't have any problem with Adventurers going out and finding those rare materials to bring back to me. That makes perfect sense. But in a lot of these games the recipes and materials are soulbound to whomever loots them.

    That's what I'd like to see broken away from in ESO, is the requirement that I participate in raiding myself if I want to have a chance to be a high level craftsman.

    Yeah, you see, that's the problem with today's games. Makes me pissed.

    As a the poster a few posts above said, "Lineage 2 crafting".

    You see (and this is also going to be aimed at Torvaldyr) in lineage 2 you could go out and gather mats, you could hire people to get mats, you could buy mats off of players who were farming a particular area AND gear dropped from raids. Same gear that these mats made.

    Whaaaaaaaa!!!!!

    Yeah I know right? Blows the mind.

    How did they do it?

    Gear, recipes, "whatever" were not bind on equip. You could go out and raid the toughest dragons (which took an alliance and probably more) and get their drops and sell them to anyone would could afford them. Including the rare drops.

    Raiding a boss could gear up several players.

    So why craft when gear that could be dropped and  wasn't bind on equip? Simple, they had a solution that removed gear from the game.

    Now, I'm not saying that games have to introduce this particular system but a system to remove gear is needed otherwise crafters aren't needed.

    In Lineage 2 you could enchant your armor and weapons (and jewelery) to something like +16.

    Anything up to +3 was safe. Anything after that had a chance to break your item and you'd get some crystals back that were less than the crystals used to make the item. At least as memory servers.

    So people wanted the most powerful gear and they would buy enchanted scrolls, farm them, etc and they would often take the chance.

    That's how I made my money, I would figure out the best weapons in the game and buy as many as I could afford "plus" a little extra.

    people would destroy their items, buy mine and I would repeat the process.

    So items were always being taken out of the game by that one person who thought "hmmmm, maybe +12" and then they would need to replace it.

    All they need is to remove gear from the game. Maye the lineage 2 way, maybe it degrades over time, maybe in order to reinforce it you need to salvage a similar item, maybe making a new item allows for the salvaging of lesser items.

    Make it so that not everyone gets a piece of gear when the raid happens or that "everyone gets a piece of gear but gear drops are rare" (yeah I can hear the screaming now) and make so you always want a crafter to alter, repair, upgrade your gear.

    This will work in a pvp or a pve game.

    As far as having only powerful guilds controlling the supply A, I have no problem with this but, B, just make it so that many mats themselves can be gotten and sold by anyone and crafters can make great gear from it. They might hire a guild or a powerful party to get the "heart of a Syvlandragonwyrmslimething" but I'm ok with that. Or C, smaller guilds join forces so that they can attain these mats.

     

     

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    While crafting was a big part of ES games, it was always optional.  If you enjoyed it you could do it, if you enjoyed getting your gear from exploring the world and killing stuff, or stealing stuff, you could do that too.  That is what defines an Elder Scroll games, freedom.  If you make it so that crafting is how you get the best gear then you take away that freedom, and what you are playing is no longer an Elder Scroll games but some niche crafting game.  
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,462Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jbombard
    While crafting was a big part of ES games, it was always optional.  If you enjoyed it you could do it, if you enjoyed getting your gear from exploring the world and killing stuff, or stealing stuff, you could do that too.  That is what defines an Elder Scroll games, freedom.  If you make it so that crafting is how you get the best gear then you take away that freedom, and what you are playing is no longer an Elder Scroll games but some niche crafting game.  

    While I agree with you in spirit, the problem here is that this is a multi-player game and an mmo as well.

    MMo's usually have an economy.

    This isn't just an Elder Scrolls game. It's an Elder Scrolls MMO. So it makes sense that certain accomodations must be made. As one of the developers pointed out, and he's correct, each elder scrolls game had differences from those that went before.

    This is just one more difference.

    I'm not a crafter and as long as I can buy my gear from players I'm good to go. And if I have a crafter in my guild (and why wouldn't I?) then I'm not too concerned.

    It essentially means that you might get certain pieces of gear but you might have to bargain with other players to enhance that gear.

    for an mmo I think that is acceptable, no matter the IP.

    to put it in perspective, in Morrowind npc's would enchant your gear.You couldn't do it yourself even if you wanted to. Now instead of npc's you have players that can enhance gear. Only difference is that they are your guild mates instead of npc's.

     

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by jbombard
    While crafting was a big part of ES games, it was always optional.  If you enjoyed it you could do it, if you enjoyed getting your gear from exploring the world and killing stuff, or stealing stuff, you could do that too.  That is what defines an Elder Scroll games, freedom.  If you make it so that crafting is how you get the best gear then you take away that freedom, and what you are playing is no longer an Elder Scroll games but some niche crafting game.  

    While I agree with you in spirit, the problem here is that this is a multi-player game and an mmo as well.

    MMo's usually have an economy.

    This isn't just an Elder Scrolls game. It's an Elder Scrolls MMO. So it makes sense that certain accomodations must be made. As one of the developers pointed out, and he's correct, each elder scrolls game had differences from those that went before.

    This is just one more difference.

    I'm not a crafter and as long as I can buy my gear from players I'm good to go. And if I have a crafter in my guild (and why wouldn't I?) then I'm not too concerned.

    It essentially means that you might get certain pieces of gear but you might have to bargain with other players to enhance that gear.

    for an mmo I think that is acceptable, no matter the IP.

    to put it in perspective, in Morrowind npc's would enchant your gear.You couldn't do it yourself even if you wanted to. Now instead of npc's you have players that can enhance gear. Only difference is that they are your guild mates instead of npc's.

     

     

    If crafting is on par with gear drops I would be happy.  In a real sandbox crafting can provide so much more than just gear.  I don't think removing gear from the game is a small change, it is a game destroying change.  Gear is a big part of providing the drive to get out there and explore.  In ES games you can find really great gear out in the world, and you still end up wearing crafted gear because they are equivalent, but you also explore the world because there are a lot of unique and powerful gear out there as wall.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by potlaki

    crafting in skyrim was easy but I only crafted cause I had a money mod.

    ill try it in ESO but in GW2 and FFXIV it did not work.

    in guild wars 2 it took too long or you had to be very good at it and in

    final fantacy online new one I just wasted my money.

    Given that I have all crafting professions in FFXIv to lv30ish, I can with confidence say that the problem in this case is not FFXIV, but your inability to play the market.

  • Greyhawk4x4Greyhawk4x4 Eagle Mountain, UTPosts: 471Member
    Originally posted by rygard49

    MMO crafting has always been a meaningless money sink until the very last skill points were gained. I hate that.

    Do you want to know how I know that you never crafted in Star Wars Galaxies?

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  • ArglebargleArglebargle Austin, TXPosts: 1,418Member Uncommon

    Sovrath, I personally don't like that style breakeage system, would go more for a degrading over time, with the caveat that it couldn't be repaired to full strength by someone of lower skill than it took to make it.   The top craftspeople would be sought after.  If you implementated decreasing efficiency of the weapon with degradation, and  perhaps chance for breakage at very low levels, folks would put those weapons away until they could get them fixed.  And you could have drops of great gear, that was in such bad shaped that they'd have to be fixed before any realistic use.

     

    Crafting is one of those areas where I think the old line games had way greater depth and creativity.  The UO/SWG/Vanguard crafting modes had some great ideas in there.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    I really love crafting and usually roll alts only for crafting. What I really miss is an MMO where I can build my house from scratch and grow something in my garden if I want. MMOs with only killing stuff are dead boring imo and good crfting mechanics add quite a lot.
  • BJWylerBJWyler Morrisville, PAPosts: 5Member Uncommon

    Sorry, I would have to disagree in part.

    Firstly, I do agree that a game should have an interesting crafting system for those players who enjoy that sort of thing. Just like games should have housing, mini-games and the like. There are many players who enjoy those aspects of a game. However, there are many who do not, and I am one of them.

    The original Guild Wars was all the crafting I needed in a game. You are right in that times have changed for MMOs and games in general, and part of that is allowing the freedom for players to play the parts of the game they enjoy the most - and that should include avoiding those "side games" that they don't. No one should be forced to craft in a game nor go to a crafter in order to be able to progress in said game. To me crafting is as exciting and interesting as watching paint dry, while keeping an eye for the water in my pot to boil. I should not be forced to participate in it in a game - either as a maker or a buyer.

    My character has no interest in having to sew closed the holes ripped in his clothing, and I have no interest as a player in performing tedious, boring activities such as that. I have enough tedious, boring duties in my Real Life - I have no desire to participate in it in my forms of entertainment. I want to go out and explore and stick the pointy end of my sword into things that have a red bar above their heads. I do not want to have to worry about crafting nor be forced to deal with a crafter in game.

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member Common
    Originally posted by Greyhawk4x4
    Originally posted by rygard49

    MMO crafting has always been a meaningless money sink until the very last skill points were gained. I hate that.

    Do you want to know how I know that you never crafted in Star Wars Galaxies?

    You're right, I never did. Apologies for using the word 'always' instead of the word 'typically'.

    Dark Age of Camelot was another where most if not all crafting levels were useful.

  • KhaladahrKhaladahr Las Vegas, NVPosts: 1Member
    The main problem or concern I have with a player driven economy is price gouging. While players should be compensated for their time and effort, I have seen all too often greed take over the prices. instead of charging reasonable prices, players want to become billionaires overnight by charging multi-million gold piece prices for gear that are only worth 50k or 60k. Can anyone say OPEC?
  • ArndushArndush Dallas, TXPosts: 303Member
    I've tried to craft in just about every MMO I've played, and Skyrim. It just doesn't do anything for me. It's been mildly amusing, but never anything worth me sinking serious time into. However, I do love exploring. So, I've become a bit a material collector for my guild's crafters. Someone needs to go get the mats while they are crafting, might as well be me. In fact, I'm rather sad my Guild didn't stick around in GW2. I have two mule characters with enough ore and cloth to level armor or weaponsmithing, and tailoring damn near to max. /shrug.
  • Dr_NegativeDr_Negative Cleveland, TNPosts: 47Member
    Originally posted by rygard49

    Dark Age of Camelot was another where most if not all crafting levels were useful.

    Especially when you consider its leveling curve back in the day. One could spend weeks in the level 20's for example, thus buying a player crafted item at that level was a great investment.

  • FangrimFangrim PrestonPosts: 589Member Common

    Another problem with crafting for yourself in todays MMOF (F is for Failure) climate is that you level so fast it is pointless crafting gear. I myself love crafting but no MMO has a good crafting system.

    EQ2 had a good one at launch because crafters worked together because they needed things from other professions and  key to this working was it took time to level adventure so it was worth making level 10 gear back then.

    Now we are  in the age of MMOF for console kids and single player people 1 hotbar cowboys/girls where devs make easy gameplay hidden behind "we have action combat" tag.

    Gnome Wankers two.After the events of 18/07/2015 i fucking hate anyone that has anything to do with skyforge
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  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Posts: 2,114Member Uncommon

    I was very disappointed when ESOL decided not to have arrow crafting.Many archers love to craft their weapons and arrows.Arrow crafting was a significant activity in SKYRIM,but not this game.(the casual players cries of anguish about running out of arrows triumphed over providing depth and remaining true to the Elders Scrolls lore).

    This is one of several dev decisions that has cooled my interest in the game.

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