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Tequatl Rises First Encounter
Silentstorm
Member UncommonPosts: 1,126
Well my first encounter with Tequatl was rather funny. He most certainly isn't the kitten from the days before video. Here's a few things I picked up on during the fight.
1. No melee you will die a quick painful death. You can swipe once or twice but don't stand there too long.
2. I found a spot you will see in the video. I keep going back to it. I noticed it was more safe then anywhere else.
3. Organize before the fight. It seems to be on a 2 and a half to 3 hour CD. So plenty of time to get your battle plan together.
4. While we are talking about that. Make sure you have a team he solely hangs out does the turrets. And while doing the others defend them. Maybe even two teams doing that would be better. That is what did us in this attempt. Not enough people defending. No turrets means no buffs for you or debuffs for Tequatl.
5. Use whatever stability you have. Also it's hard to see,but a lot of condition damage is going around. So having removal is cool along with being careful of circles of doom on the ground.
6. Remember triggering the super cannon phase. You need to get Tequatl to 75% 50% and 25%. Don't waste time with it until then.
Comments
Dunno about anywhere else, but on Tarnished Coast having a lot of fun discussing strategy. Stacking about 50+ people right next to where he spawns, turret people are practicing shooting buffs on top of our head.
The buffs work on 50+ people, so if they cycle those and cleanse, and the little stacked group practices jumping, basically running perma 25 stacks of might + fury + quickness.
Might not work once the boss is actually here., but it's fun to experiment!
People wanted ultra hard boss fights in GW2, ANet proved it was possible without the trinity.
Now I'm counting the time until people whine that it's too hard.
My computer is better than yours.
It's not really about whining. It's great they finally changed bosses in the world, but the problem arises when people start to grief, by going into turrets and not doing anything with them.
There's a lot of drawbacks to an open world raid system, and the major one is not being able to kick people.
If the content is too hard, then people will just skip it. There needs to be a balance in difficulty, especially when you have no control over participation and coordination. At least the zerg is gone though, right?
the entire concept is flawed.
1. you must camp for up to a few hours to be sure you are in-zone when the event spawns. If not - you are put in an overflow and my experience is that overflow's are generally fail in finishing events
2. It takes what? 80 people to do the event? All coordinated, all knowing what to do, all sticking with the fight, keeping the turrets up, etc. - coordinated effort from a PUG group... that's next to impossible for a fight needing this many people
3. Already seeing the "if you are all the way dead - WP and run back" as players are unwilling to rez. The nearest WP is contested the entire match, so this means spending more silver and more time to get back into the fight. Since the fight is a #s game, having a lot of dead always in transit from WPs really gimps the dmg output and ability to keep turrets up
4. Have not been successful yet so can't say what the loot is like. I can guarantee you though - if its not a quantum leap better than loot from champ farms then few will bother with this event in a few weeks. Too much effort, to many deaths - risk/reward has to make it worth doing. Teq could become a cousin to the Karka Queen who sits un-battled on her worthless island
5. Loot from other world bosses - who have all been buffed and given time limits - has NOT improved. So - anet loses the risk/reward battle there. Makes me question if Teq's loot will even be worth the time
Loot for all the world bosses has improved.
There's a difference between "ultra hard" and overtuned. Without the trinity, all they can really do it overtune the boss fights so that you get one-shot if you are standing in the wrong spot. That's fine if that is the type of difficulty you are looking for, but personally I prefer a fight to be difficult AND strategy-intensive. I'm not saying there isn't strategy involved, but it doesn't seem to involve a lot of complex mechanics and movement like you'd see in other trinity-based games.
GW2 certainly does have some impressive looking bosses, though. Pretty awe-inspiring when he hops down off the mountain. The only thing I've noticed is that the over-sized boss mobs never seem to actually move anywhere. They seem to be anchored to one position for most or all of the fight. Are all the bigger boss mobs like this, or do they have ones that actually move around and chase people?
Tequatl is basically a 150 man pug raid.
Which is why people are constantly failing it. Because the odds of getting 149 other competent people is.... well. Mmm.... anyway, it's tuned for assuming people aren't perfectly coordinated, but a lot of coordination and movement and mechanics are still involved.
Anyway, our server has gotten better and better at dealing with it, with strategy sessions in between wipes as we try and break down what went wrong and how we can do it better. Since you apparently don't play, and aren't doing this fight, you're speaking from a position of ignorance.
Always a dangerous position to speak from when making blanket statements.
Position of ignorance? I did play long enough to get an engineer to level 80, so while I may not know as much about this particular fight, I have done enough dungeons in this game to know that, in my opinion, the boss fights in this game don't require the amount of strategy and coordination as other games I've played. That's not to say they don't require any, mind you. Just not the same amount. I've found the mechanics in games like WoW and Rift to be more complex without the need to over-tune the encounter to make up for the lack of mechanics that a non-trinity fight would have.
And making a pug raid for 150 people isn't a point to bring up when talking about difficulty of an encounter. It's simply another way to make the fight more difficult while circumventing actual boss mechanics and strategy.
Again, just my opinion.
Thing is, you can't judge this boss fight based on your past experience with the other bosses in the game because this is...you know...revamped? Buzz words such as strategy, movement, and complex are found in greater amounts on this fight.
Your statement about the limitations of a non-trinity system is off mark as far as this new boss go. Like Meow implied, you have to experience it before making this kind of judgment.
That was... at the beginning, right? Unless you've been sneaking around and playing GW2 when nobody has been looking. From what I remember you quit pretty early on.
That means you've missed both the F&F and Aetherblade dungeons, with improved boss mechanisms.
And the Queen's Gauntlet, which was a bunch of challenging 1v1 fights that demonstrated how they can tweak up boss complexity on a small scale.
... and of course, that you've missed Tequatl and how he's been revamped.
Quite possibly, you even missed the fractals, which are somewhere in between the more modern dungeons and the original ones.
They're all considerably better than your average 'vanilla' GW2 fights so far as strategy goes. Hence my remark about speaking from a position of ignorance. You can only talk about the game as it first came out, not about the game as it is and is changing.
But, so far as coordination and tactics goes, open world bosses have always been behind some of the more complex fights in the dungeons. Even Ascalonian Catacombs got a revamp where they gave more advanced fight mechanics. Heck, even your average world boss, with the latest patch, most of them got a couple things that doesn't make the fight really complicated, but at least shuts down a lot of the 'park in spot, press 1, walk away, lol' zerging you could do before. People are either picking up their game, or dying en masse. (A lot of the latter, sadly)
The boss fights in GW2 are getting better, and more interesting.
Not really. In some fights, like Fire Elemental, I got the same typical loot drop as pre-patch. For Maw I got an extra champion chest atop the normal loot you got pre-patch. So apparently sometimes you get this and other times not.
In any case - the fights take longer than before and also longer than a typical champion being zerged by a farming train. So - the novelty of a longer fight will likely wear off in a short while considering the champ farms provide more loot overall.
How odd. You might be bugged. In every boss fight I, and everybody else I know did, they were awarded 2 champion bags on top of the normal loot.
So you're getting a guaranteed yellow, 2 guaranteed exotic champion bags (Sometimes champions can drop lower quality), and a chest which is about as good as 2 champion bags in and of itself (I've gotten up to an exotic and 2 rares from one)
That's pretty good for fights that only take a couple minutes more.
Then again, I'm on a pretty good server. Maybe you're on a bad one? I might be spoiled.
Not to mention the whatever-teen Dragonite Ore which is useful for crafting ascended.
after quitting GW2 over 5 months, i guess i shall log back in to give this a try,
used to do tequatl and thought it's just the hack n slash till it's dead, looks like super fun now
might give it a go tonight!
So What Now?
Why is it overtuned?
One can say bosses that require a healer and a tank are also overtuned.
One shots are countered by dodge and reflects/blocks/invulns/a stone wall.
It is a different strategy/skill to tank-healer and that is all.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
From what I remember playing the game a year ago, this was almost always the case.. Going melee meant you would suffer all kinds of stupid damage, leaving you in downed state so fast you didnt even have time to do anything.
One of the main reason im no longer playing this game.
This is why I started to hate the game endgame.
I wouldn't call them better. I took part in sb and tequatl this evening. are they different? yes. but when the game went into open beta this is exactly how the encounters went. only difference is now there is a timer to prevent to corpse runs from eventually downing the bosses. a few weeks after launch when people figured out the fights is when they started to get boring. it wont be any different here. weeks from now people will know what to do to down tequatl and it will be another boring world boss fight.
Bad dungeon experience? Yes many bosses at launch were extremely melee-unfriendly. There are still a few of them, but mostly they have been tuned to be challenging (but a lot less frustrating) to both melee and ranged.
It's not a coincidence that Warrior is currently the most wanted profession in most dungeon groups.
Bad general experiences. As far as I remember it was both dungeons and events. Bosses/monsters would do absurd damage, and you would be in downed state over and over.
I saw a video of the kill of this new big boss event, and again, players were going down over and over, and everyone was just huddled together doing ranged damage. Not much diversity/fun in that.
They might have fine tuned the dungeons/events since then (In regards to melee friendliness), but as I said, was one of the reasons, and the others arent fixed, since they are core game mechanics I dont like.
Another "I don't play the game but I will give my expert opinion about it anyway" post.
My computer is better than yours.
Considering the most wanted class for dungeons are zerker warriors, you were just playing in a time everyone was a bad player.
The thing with melee weapons is that they DO MUCH MORE DAMAGE. You go there and unload a 100blades or a axe #1 chain and you have done more damage than 30s of ranged attacks.
Knowing the animations of bosses allows you to dodge their one shot attacks that happens every so often.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Actually, having to avoid some moves which may "one shot" you is more realistic than any "trinity" system with a tank.
When a giant dragon the size of a house is about to try to bash you in the face with his claws, you better dodge it or you die.
My computer is better than yours.
From 3 runs last night I have deduced the following:
Areanet doesn't know their own game. I like GW2 but the openworld event system does encourage/allow/tolerate completely and utter wastes of space to exist and not cause to much grief.
As a counter example, in Lotro PvP my server had one douchebag who enjoyed pulling PvE mobs into PvP fights. You can't do that in GW2, about the most asshat move you can do in PvE events is to just stand there to cause an event to scale up for the playing people. But hey, just walk away and try again another day, the event will respawn before you have turned around.
Group content in GW2 is relatively simple AND small scale. People play it in tight groups OR in PUGS where they can easily kick a trouble maker.
So... now Areanet has introduced a MASSIVE group content requiring focus... and a LOT of people.
So what have I observed during the events? Turrets manned but not firing. People counting towards server limit busy with other things. AFK galore. People dead and screaming for rez rather then simply respawning and rejoining the fight.
The fight itself seems pretty simple:
Turrets debuff the lizard and buff the players. 6 turrets, 100 people relying on those 6 people not being AFK, not being douche bags or totally unaware of the mechanics of the fight or just there to get an achievement.
In a game where focused group content so far has been absent.
Oh that is going to go well?
Meanwhile you either got to dodge a though lizard or join a few fighters defending the turrets dealing with enemies scaled to the 100+ people in the area but NOT actually fighting them.
I am not the best player out there, not even close but I can handle some champions alone or with another player. When you spend an eternity solo fighting a grub to defend a turret it is clear the game expects me to be getting some help from the countless players around them. I wasn't. Enemies scaled to deal with a zergs damage output SUCK DONKEY BALLS when the zerg isn't outputting any damage.
It reminds me a bit of the fire elemental before it was fixed/nerfed. It used to spawn endless fire circles, often overlapping with an endless knockdown effect. Basically a constant instant kill where people often couldn't make it off the bridge.
Its hardness was however directly related to how many decent players were there. If a monsters scales up for every dead playing waiting for other people to join the fight, then the fight soon becomes impossible.
A good company knows their playerbase. In Lotro people preferred moderate non-gated content, when Moria supplied the exact opposite, people found ways to avoid Moria at all costs.
In SWG, a giraff like animal on Correlia was hunted above all others because it didn't cause insane poison damage.
And GW2 seems to be played a lot by people who prefer zergs style simple combat. Well I certainly do.
I can deal with needing to split up and light tactics but making an OPENWORLD event were success relies on six people who can't be booted who can hog an essential element... that is just insane.
It reminds me of Age of Conans excellent idea to make other players bodies block you path. How many seconds did you think it took for players to find choke points so they could block other players access to crucial areas?
Right... they soon had to introduce a patch that allowed you to pass other people when crouching.
Areanet, this is the internet, there will be assholes, the will find a way to ruin it for other players. You just gave them an early christmas present.
That happened (and still happens to a degree) because people were making a few fatal flaws (mainly due to bad habits from other MMOs).
1. Heavy armor does absorb a bit more damage, but it's not so much that you can stand there and absorb blow after blow.
2. There are no melee professions. All professions have both ranged and melee options available to them. People would think Warrior = Melee then try to melee in situations that were less than ideal. On top of that...
3. When you're in melee, you cannot simply stand there and attack. You need to move, use mitigation and avoidance skills, etc. GW2 is not a game where you stand there and swing a sword until the other guy goes dead. If you don't use your other skills, especially utility skills, to good effect, well... there you go.
That pretty much sums it up. No profession is only melee, and when you're choosing to melee... don't only melee. Move. Avoid. Block. Dodge. Mitigate.
Or die.
Oderint, dum metuant.
That happened (and still happens to a degree) because people were making a few fatal flaws (mainly due to bad habits from other MMOs).
1. Heavy armor does absorb a bit more damage, but it's not so much that you can stand there and absorb blow after blow.
2. There are no melee professions. All professions have both ranged and melee options available to them. People would think Warrior = Melee then try to melee in situations that were less than ideal. On top of that...
3. When you're in melee, you cannot simply stand there and attack. You need to move, use mitigation and avoidance skills, etc. GW2 is not a game where you stand there and swing a sword until the other guy goes dead. If you don't use your other skills, especially utility skills, to good effect, well... there you go.
That pretty much sums it up. No profession is only melee, and when you're choosing to melee... don't only melee. Move. Avoid. Block. Dodge. Mitigate.
Or die.
+1