Played my First dungeon last night. It was the first level 15. I tanked it on my Marauder. I had no idea what I was doing but it was all Tank and Spank, so we did fine.
The game is REALLY new to be playing the"know the fights card" already. Although a youtube search will pretty much take care of that.
I don't mind when people "don't know the fights" or even if they sit through the cinematic. Who cares? Let them. As long as they're willing to listen to how the fight should progress; all is good. I honestly don't expect people to read up on the encounters. To some, that defeats the purpose of the game. I'm fine with that.
What I hate though, is when "insert non-tank here" constantly pulls or runs ahead of the tank; and then complains when they don't receive heals quick enough. Couple that with the inability to target "1" and not an unmarked mob; and things get "interesting".
You get it in every game with a groupcentric mentality. Still annoying nonetheless.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Also already seeing people grieving over those waiting on cinematics.
Please don't 'WoW' this game up....I'm rather enjoying it.
Welcome to all linear gear grind MMOs. This always happens. You should expect to by now.
Look back on every MMO since WoW to be released. Every single one has had people hitting 'endgame' faster than the one before it. Furthermore, people are more impatient now than they had been when MMOs first came out. People don't want to wait for the 100000th random person to figure it out. They've already ran the content 100s of times. They just wanna do it w/ out the hastle.
I know most people then think 'well just join a FC then!' but it's not that simple. You can only join 1 FC (i.e. guild) in this game. People play at different times, have lives, etc. Not everyone is always doing the same things together. Thats just reality.
I know it's kind of disgusting having people yelling at you for joining cutscenes (which is why I prefer to pre-make these groups), but not everyone is good at making premades. This is not as much a FFXIV problem as it is the nature of the particular MMO most of us repeatedly want to play. This is essentially the same game design, with the same flaws, as has existed since EQ. Lack of healers / tanks, people rushing to endgame, impatience to enjoy the game & expecting others to be the same. A never ending gear grind.
This is the game you guys signed up for. I don't know why you would expect it to magically be any different 'this time', as it wasn't the last dozen times.
Originally posted by rnor6084 Seeing lots of posts about the community in this game. Negative posts. I have zero tolerance for elitists. Avoiding this game.
Ok Ok we get it, you dont like the community. You didnt need to post the same thing 4 times in 4 different topics.
Also, post history is not your friend
From Age of Conan topic
Originally posted by rnor6084 Going to not try it because of one persons opinion in a forum?Should always try it for yourself and if you do not like it then get the hell outta dodge.
So, when it comes to AoC you cant trust forum people's opinions of the game and you have to try it for yourself but for FF14 you can trust the forums and never actually play the game yourself.
Why would I want to ruin the fight for myself by watching it on youtube before hand? Talk about major spoilers. Man I would not have nearly as much fun if I would have played Legend of zelda OoT or FFVII and watched each boss fight before trying it myself.
I think what may be needed here is a check box on duty finder so if people want to rush through everything they can do so with other like minded people.
I am still waiting for someone to explain to me the reason why demanding a whole team to adapt to your inexperience and unwillingness to prepare yourself for high level content makes you any less entitled than me asking you to be prepared.
I mean, at the very least we feel just as entitled as we both ask the other to adapt to our own way to play, and no, your way to play is not morally superior to mine in any way or shape.
And what is up with that lame "if you want good teams get friends instead of the LFG"?
I could tell you the same and claim that if you want patient and kind players willing to explore with you, you should get friends that actually want to do the same.
Again, at the very least we feel as much entitled as you do.
And finally, there is something that seems to escape you when it comes to the whole "fun" thing.
Many of you claim stuff such as "wiping and slowly learning the fight is fun, you should focus on that and not the loot".
The major flaw in that logic is that yes, for the one player that is making 7 other players lag behind because "he is learning" it may be a world of fun but for everyone else it is just a nuisance.
-We are not learning the fight
-We are not "slowly getting things and doing them right"
-We are not "enjoying the difficulty"
-We are not getting that enjoyment from finally avoiding that one mechanic that owned us 7 times in a row.
We are here sitting, helpless as we are unable to down the boss and progress because apparently you re having the time of your mmo-life getting squashed under the dragon´s foot for the sixth time in a row.
This is bad enough once or twice but it gets obnoxious when you literally spend evening after evening repeating this process with every Bob IamNew that crosses your lfg.
OH! and let me tell you, that just as much as you complain about rude elitists, i also met my fair share of less experienced rude players that begin to insult the party, refuse to listen to tactics and just ignore everyone as they make everyone else fail just to blame the healer or the tank.
1)Experienced players, focusing on late game mechanics are mostly people in guilds already. That's one of the major purposes of a guild in a themepark gear treadmill game. Trying to speed run dungeons in a PUG is quite a ridiculous expectation. As is expecting everyone to be up to speed on the in's and outs of a particular run.
2)A new player is expecting to be grouping up with more experienced party members in most cases. That's reality, as is experienced players being stuck with inexperienced players. What you're expecting will never be a reality.
It's part of playing with other people, you may want to get used to it.
1)Yeah, because there is nothing between world first guild raid efficiency and wiping 12 times per boss.
Many of us do not ask to be able to blitz dungeons nor we begin to curse whenever we wipe once, we just pretend for people to know the basics of the dungeon so we do not have to explain every single detail and still wipe 5 or 6 times per boss + a few times in the patrols.
A normal dungeon run with 2 or 3 wipes due to honest mistakes or needing to understand one specific mechanic "live" is perfectly fine to me and many of "us".
What is not ok is for someone to not even know the name of the dungeon he has signed up for, come in without knowing a single mechanic on that dungeon, go afk a few times as he is chatting to somebody on skype and then make us wipe half a dozen times per boss.
And no, i wish i was exaggerating.
2) I simply disagree with you.
There is expectation in both groups as proved by this endless discussions and i refuse to accept or believe that the newbie´s expectation is somehow right or more morally acceptable than our own.
Also already seeing people grieving over those waiting on cinematics.
Please don't 'WoW' this game up....I'm rather enjoying it.
Welcome to all linear gear grind MMOs. This always happens. You should expect to by now.
Look back on every MMO since WoW to be released. Every single one has had people hitting 'endgame' faster than the one before it. Furthermore, people are more impatient now than they had been when MMOs first came out. People don't want to wait for the 100000th random person to figure it out. They've already ran the content 100s of times. They just wanna do it w/ out the hastle.
I know most people then think 'well just join a FC then!' but it's not that simple. You can only join 1 FC (i.e. guild) in this game. People play at different times, have lives, etc. Not everyone is always doing the same things together. Thats just reality.
I know it's kind of disgusting having people yelling at you for joining cutscenes (which is why I prefer to pre-make these groups), but not everyone is good at making premades. This is not as much a FFXIV problem as it is the nature of the particular MMO most of us repeatedly want to play. This is essentially the same game design, with the same flaws, as has existed since EQ. Lack of healers / tanks, people rushing to endgame, impatience to enjoy the game & expecting others to be the same. A never ending gear grind.
This is the game you guys signed up for. I don't know why you would expect it to magically be any different 'this time', as it wasn't the last dozen times.
If it was no problem to do WoW raids with 40 people 5-6 days per week from 6pm to 11pm while there were 45 ppl in guild and 5 from them were just subs it should not be problem to do dugeons / raids here. I think the people who yelling and are rude at others are just jerks without friend, nobody like em, FC dont like em, so thats why they are alone making pugs or raiding via duty finder.
-Forcing an entire group to waste their evening sitting out for you, wiping over and over and waiting for you to grasp concepts that the game has been teaching you for 30 levels in a row = Selfless and Good
-Getting ready and expecting everyone else to be = Selfish and the cancer of this community.
Are you guys serious?
I am the Guild Master of a family oriented guild full of newbies to the genre and people who do not have the time to really get much done on a daily basis and even us try our best to be geared, ready and know at least the very basics of the fights we face.
Stop using the "omfg rushers are selfish" excuse to do nothing by yourself and pretend for everything to be served and explained to you and have entire groups of people bend to your "needs".
Exploring the game and experiencing the content is fine, understandable and desirable, but you can´t make an entire group of people waste their evening for your enjoyment.
You seem to be confused.
No one said anything about wasting an evening or wiping over and over again.
How much time does it really take to explain a fights mechanic?
Maybe a minute or two and if this minute or 2 is so bad for some of the players who play a game (and not getting ready for an all important world saving mission like some might mistake a game for nowadays) than yes i would say they act rather selfish and could be considered the cancer of the community.
I never read up a dungeon before as well and lets be honest you dont need to most mechanics are very easy and if the pt feels the need to explain the mechanic to me after all(spends the 1 minute) i take the advise and just do it.
Now i do understand that some players just suck they need guides videos and all that stuff since they lack the ability to grasp the mechanics while they go but only cause they suck doesnt mean we all should use guides.
I dont care if a person doesnt know the fight, I'll be happy to explain it, others have had to do the same for me when I was new to the dungeon. I dont mind trying out tactics with a group who is completely new, ive done it as well.
What does kinda annoy me is when people in the group asks if everyone knows the fight, everyone says yes, and then people clearly dont need the fight.
To be fair.. every new instance I preface with.. FIRST TIME HERE.
Then on another screen I have a quick guide to whatever the bosses are.
There was nothing more humiliating than trying to wail on that damned slime and not doing a lick of good, only to have a bomb take out 3/4 of the people on the run. Not cool and never again.
But you shouldn't have to feel humiliated. I think that's part of the problem. It's like people feel "ashamed" for not having done a dungeon before.
Why? Everyone has a first time - including the people who wrote the guides you have up on your second screen.
The problem is impatience, intolerance and self-entitlement of the "me, me, me... now, now, now" generation that's overtaken this genre.
There's nothing wrong in wiping on a dungeon boss. It's supposed to be a challenge. It's not supposed to be a cake-walk that you automatically beat "in the first go". Or even the second. Or third if necessary.
The problem is, all people care about is "getting the reward". They're not enjoying the content along the way, they're "dealing with it" and trying to get through it as fast as possible. Because all they care about is the loot/xp they get at the end.
If I'm in a group with people who are impatient about the fact that it's my first time in there, and rather than offering helpful info/advice, they choose to bitch at me and try to make me feel bad because -gasp- I'd never done that content before, I remind them that they, too, were once new at everything in the game, that they had to learn as well. I suggest that rather than being a douchebag toward me, they could have simply offered some helpful tips instead. Then I invite them to kiss my ass.
As for "you should study the encounter before you go in". Screw that. I'm playing a game to play the game. Everything I need to know about the game I can learn by playing it. I'm not going to spend time "studying" a game, like I'm in freaking college, because some other player with no patience can't handle spending a few moments to fill me in on the major point.s There aren't many things you *need* to remember in any given fight in XIV.
So, again... there's no reason to be "humiliated" because you didn't know how to beat a boss the first time. That's called playing the game and learning as you go.
It's just the era and the veteran culture that surrounds this model of MMO that has been around for well over a decade by now. If you've done quests and dungeons in one game, you've done them in all games. Once upon a time, when the concept of dungeons was brand new, nobody (or at least very few) had such high expectations of their peers; everyone was completely new to the gameplay mode. But at this point, if you've mastered speed dungeon runs in 5 other MMOs, those experiences carry over through your overall MMO experience, and you expect to do the same in whatever new MMO you play.
I agree that it's unpleasant when you run into this mentality in a new MMO, but I completely understand why it exists. I'd also remark that I've had plenty of friendly full newbie groups where we had a lot of fun exploring and learning new content the old fashioned way.
that's really well said. I can understand why the OP says don't wow this game up, and I agree that would be nice, but its impossible. The developers can make us endless new experiences to play, but they can't do anything to change the players themselves. If I find the idea of loading up a low level character in wow and running deadmines for the thousandth time boring and unpleasant, I shouldn't be surprised that I get the same feeling doing dungeons in this game. Its a group experience, and the group itself is what I am worn out on. Might be the ultimate type of MMO burnout.
I'm really beginning to think it is the ultimate MMO burnout. I played WoW from vanilla through WotlK. It was my second MMO after FFXI, and it really couldn't be any different. I was in love with quests and the context they provided the world. I was even more in love with dungeons. I ran the hell out of UBRS, Strat, Scholo, BRD and Dire Maul in vanilla, in addition to all the raids - like seriously ran the hell out of them. I never got tired of them all the way up until the first expansion arrived, which was just so jam packed with dungeon and raid content that I had my hands full for literally another full year and a half. I took a break at some point before WotlK arrived, but then got back into it and had a blast again for another full expansion, although there were some ups and downs - and a lot less content.
But at some point not long after killing the Lich King, I just got really burned out. I didn't think it was anything I hadn't felt before and came back from, so I expected to come back for Cata. I tried it for a month and didn't even play the whole month, and I don't think it was because Cata was that bad. I actually really loved the old world remake, and the dungeons and 1 raid I played a little of were alright enough. It was just that more dungeons and more quests, no matter how well done, were ever going to carry the same longevity they once did for me because I've already seen it all. This was confirmed for me when I got that inevitable itch to play an MMO several times over the last 3 years and encountered the same exact feeling in Rift, Aion, AoC and Tera. They all have their unique qualities that make them pretty cool in areas, but they all have the same quests and dungeons that I'm familiar with. I instantly feel like a longtime veteran of the game.
The only game that has managed to make me love MMOs again after my seemingly permanent WoW-type game burnout has been Guild Wars 2. It's just different enough in so many areas that my quest and dungeon burnout doesn't apply...well maybe the dungeon burnout applies, but I think I just don't like GW2's dungeons to begin with compared to other MMOs. But that's fine, because that's such a minor part of the game.
As far as FFXIV goes, it still has my attention so far, but that's because I'm still feeling my way through the game and am in hardcore progression mode. If nothing else, one has to admit FFXIV gives players a lot of goals to pursue. I do already dread having to go back and redo dungeons I've already completed. They're all cool the first time though, but unlike my vanilla WoW days where I was able to run the same huge cavernous labyrinths literally hundreds of times, I find myself not wanting to run these more than once or twice - which is exactly the ultimate burnout we're talking about. I recognize that these are pretty well done dungeons. But NO dungeon, no matter how well done, is capable of holding my attention longer than one or two runs anymore. This makes me sad, but it really can't be helped
And when half the group feels the same exact way, when they all feel like veterans of the dungeon world and expect to be able to speed run, you get the mentalities that create create the miserable group experiences this thread is about.
Unfortunately that always happens, too many people equate winning with fun. And while winning is fun, how you win matters so much more.
"gogogo, I need moar lootz plz, only geerd peeples." -The rallying cry of people who ruin communities.
Getting more loot is the only purpose of playing this game. And when you've played a bunch of times with unprepared people already, it makes sense to only play with people who are.
Edit: You see the same thing in games that feature PvP. It's way more satisfying to win at PvP. Therefore when you're forming a group, form one with players that are prepared (with gear) to win.
Unfortunately that always happens, too many people equate winning with fun. And while winning is fun, how you win matters so much more.
"gogogo, I need moar lootz plz, only geerd peeples." -The rallying cry of people who ruin communities.
Getting more loot is the only purpose of playing this game. And when you've played a bunch of times with unprepared people already, it makes sense to only play with people who are.
Edit: You see the same thing in games that feature PvP. It's way more satisfying to win at PvP. Therefore when you're forming a group, form one with players that are prepared (with gear) to win.
True, however the biggest problem right now in the game regarding endgame material is that a LOT of players are walking in blind to it. Its not hard to watch a youtube video on the boss mechanics so at leas you don't need 10 wipes to figure it all out.
Agree that some people try really hard for a group of people who cant be bothered to form their own groups outside of the duty finder.
Simply put, a in game voice chat would do wonders. Also you have a lot of PS3 players whos only option is to get a smart phone app for voice chat.
Unfortunately that always happens, too many people equate winning with fun. And while winning is fun, how you win matters so much more.
"gogogo, I need moar lootz plz, only geerd peeples." -The rallying cry of people who ruin communities.
Getting more loot is the only purpose of playing this game. And when you've played a bunch of times with unprepared people already, it makes sense to only play with people who are.
Edit: You see the same thing in games that feature PvP. It's way more satisfying to win at PvP. Therefore when you're forming a group, form one with players that are prepared (with gear) to win.
Spoken like someone who will leave the game when something else is released. I'm seeing a familiar tone here with this game. Very SWTOR. It's a good game but with only a few months of content, maybe a bit more for a casual player, the heavy hour crowd will have gotten bored.
I get 3 hours on a weekday MAX, usually just 2 1/2. And a bit more on weekends. Not 8+ hours a day for weeks. You have several different kinds of people that play these games, communication is key as in SWTOR when it was just released. When you LFG, make sure to let people know your not looking for a quick loot run. If you hold out for people like you who want to experience the dungeons you won't have this issue. I won't tolerate people who want to rush by everything and leave you running to always catch up. I'll leave the group immediately and try to find another group, especially when I stated that I didn't want to rush through. What these people try to do is make you feel bad or inadequate when it is they themselves with the problem. They are selfish asshats ^ exhibit 'A'.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
To be fair.. every new instance I preface with.. FIRST TIME HERE.
Then on another screen I have a quick guide to whatever the bosses are.
There was nothing more humiliating than trying to wail on that damned slime and not doing a lick of good, only to have a bomb take out 3/4 of the people on the run. Not cool and never again.
That was fun trying to figure how to kill that slime no one wipe on him though. That dungeon was fun as hell.
Also already seeing people grieving over those waiting on cinematics.
Please don't 'WoW' this game up....I'm rather enjoying it.
If you are going to pug groups, this is to be expected. If it bothers you, you need to find a clan and do the dungeons with them. That said, you can go to the inn and watch every cinematic, that's why people get annoyed.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
Also already seeing people grieving over those waiting on cinematics.
Please don't 'WoW' this game up....I'm rather enjoying it.
If you are going to pug groups, this is to be expected. If it bothers you, you need to find a clan and do the dungeons with them. That said, you can go to the inn and watch every cinematic, that's why people get annoyed.
Lack of manners and being a jackass seems to be ok then pug or not?
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
Unfortunately that always happens, too many people equate winning with fun. And while winning is fun, how you win matters so much more.
"gogogo, I need moar lootz plz, only geerd peeples." -The rallying cry of people who ruin communities.
Getting more loot is the only purpose of playing this game.
That is so, so sad. Your only purpose for playing the game is to get virtual goods that mean nothing and will doubtless be outdated soon enough as the treadmill starts?
The only purpose for you to play the game is to get virtual stats?
Take a good, long look at yourself in the mirror and see if you should be playing MMOs. If you aren't playing them for fun experiences, then you are probably not going to be happy. Of course you will be frustrated with other people who interrupt your loot quest with questions, because lets face it: You aren't really having fun playing the game anyway and so probably have a short temper.
Also already seeing people grieving over those waiting on cinematics.
Please don't 'WoW' this game up....I'm rather enjoying it.
Nobody wants to waste their Saturday night wiping so you can be "surprised". Its not 2003 anymore, the shits on YouTube, look up the fight and don't waste my time dying to stupid shit.
Having said that, watch your cutscenes. You spent 50 levels to get to see them, so enjoy them.
When you pay for my sub then you can dictate what I do. Until that time you play the way you want and I will play the way I want.
As someone who has relic, and almost full DL (just need the leg/foot combo for WAR), I find it hilarious that people are asking for experience for encounters like Hydra and Chimera. Huh? It's a quest encounter. Unless you're specifically looking for players who fucking FAILED at it, it makes absolutely no sense.
I also run CM quite fast and I understand it's annoying when people are new BUT the biggest irritating thing that has occured because of jerks getting mad at new players is that they never SAY they're new. So you end up just getting right pissed thinking they know what they're doing but don't. For new players, I know it's hard and you will probably encounter a fair share of assholes, but for a lot of us "good guys/girls", say you're new so we can explain fights/movements/etc.
As someone who has relic, and almost full DL (just need the leg/foot combo for WAR), I find it hilarious that people are asking for experience for encounters like Hydra and Chimera. Huh? It's a quest encounter. Unless you're specifically looking for players who fucking FAILED at it, it makes absolutely no sense.
I also run CM quite fast and I understand it's annoying when people are new BUT the biggest irritating thing that has occured because of jerks getting mad at new players is that they never SAY they're new. So you end up just getting right pissed thinking they know what they're doing but don't. For new players, I know it's hard and you will probably encounter a fair share of assholes, but for a lot of us "good guys/girls", say you're new so we can explain fights/movements/etc.
Oh, and enjoy the game.
When you start the instance, it automatically states whether or not someone in party is new or not.
In Amdapor we wiped on 2nd boss but was still tagged as "new" when I tried to join another party, I told them I knew everything till 2nd boss and they explained me last boss only.
I agree with him, people don't pay attention to the new message so why not waste 1 minute and type "hi guys I'm new mind explaining what I need to do?"
Why complain about something that has absolutely zero impact on you?
You aren't obligated to group with anybody specific, so just don't group with people when you don't like how they form groups. Simple, no?
The content in this game starts out very simple and ramps up. It doesn't take much time or effort to learn a little about the content before you do it to avoid "educational wiping." No matter how amazing you may think you are, you probably won't figure out all fights during the fights without dying a lot, and if you're with people who do know what they're doing, all you do is waste their time. Do you like having your time wasted?
I don't mind explaining stuff to people, and usually end up explaining fights at least half the time I tank instances, because I'd rather get the fight done than wipe repeatedly while some genius takes multiple tries to figure it out, if they ever DO figure it out.
I see no problem with people who have done content to death wanting to repeat the content for the 50th time with other people who know the content. After the 20th time of explaining everything to that one inevitable one person who's never done it, it gets kind of old.
And again, you don't have to group with anybody specific. If you'd rather do the small bits of challenging content with a group of people who have no clue and who can't be bothered to learn anything without wiping for hours, then have at it.
The fanboys in this game are the most annoying of any I have seen yet. Take your own advice...why complain about something that has nothing to do with you?
Here is a novel concept....elitists who require qualifications should not pug? Because this is a pug issue too. If you are going to be picky then you should not pug.
Comments
Played my First dungeon last night. It was the first level 15. I tanked it on my Marauder. I had no idea what I was doing but it was all Tank and Spank, so we did fine.
The game is REALLY new to be playing the"know the fights card" already. Although a youtube search will pretty much take care of that.
Just lie wildly and make them deal with it.
I don't mind when people "don't know the fights" or even if they sit through the cinematic. Who cares? Let them. As long as they're willing to listen to how the fight should progress; all is good. I honestly don't expect people to read up on the encounters. To some, that defeats the purpose of the game. I'm fine with that.
What I hate though, is when "insert non-tank here" constantly pulls or runs ahead of the tank; and then complains when they don't receive heals quick enough. Couple that with the inability to target "1" and not an unmarked mob; and things get "interesting".
You get it in every game with a groupcentric mentality. Still annoying nonetheless.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Welcome to all linear gear grind MMOs. This always happens. You should expect to by now.
Look back on every MMO since WoW to be released. Every single one has had people hitting 'endgame' faster than the one before it. Furthermore, people are more impatient now than they had been when MMOs first came out. People don't want to wait for the 100000th random person to figure it out. They've already ran the content 100s of times. They just wanna do it w/ out the hastle.
I know most people then think 'well just join a FC then!' but it's not that simple. You can only join 1 FC (i.e. guild) in this game. People play at different times, have lives, etc. Not everyone is always doing the same things together. Thats just reality.
I know it's kind of disgusting having people yelling at you for joining cutscenes (which is why I prefer to pre-make these groups), but not everyone is good at making premades. This is not as much a FFXIV problem as it is the nature of the particular MMO most of us repeatedly want to play. This is essentially the same game design, with the same flaws, as has existed since EQ. Lack of healers / tanks, people rushing to endgame, impatience to enjoy the game & expecting others to be the same. A never ending gear grind.
This is the game you guys signed up for. I don't know why you would expect it to magically be any different 'this time', as it wasn't the last dozen times.
Also, post history is not your friend
From Age of Conan topic
So, when it comes to AoC you cant trust forum people's opinions of the game and you have to try it for yourself but for FF14 you can trust the forums and never actually play the game yourself.Sounds reasonable.
Why would I want to ruin the fight for myself by watching it on youtube before hand? Talk about major spoilers. Man I would not have nearly as much fun if I would have played Legend of zelda OoT or FFVII and watched each boss fight before trying it myself.
I think what may be needed here is a check box on duty finder so if people want to rush through everything they can do so with other like minded people.
1)Yeah, because there is nothing between world first guild raid efficiency and wiping 12 times per boss.
Many of us do not ask to be able to blitz dungeons nor we begin to curse whenever we wipe once, we just pretend for people to know the basics of the dungeon so we do not have to explain every single detail and still wipe 5 or 6 times per boss + a few times in the patrols.
A normal dungeon run with 2 or 3 wipes due to honest mistakes or needing to understand one specific mechanic "live" is perfectly fine to me and many of "us".
What is not ok is for someone to not even know the name of the dungeon he has signed up for, come in without knowing a single mechanic on that dungeon, go afk a few times as he is chatting to somebody on skype and then make us wipe half a dozen times per boss.
And no, i wish i was exaggerating.
2) I simply disagree with you.
There is expectation in both groups as proved by this endless discussions and i refuse to accept or believe that the newbie´s expectation is somehow right or more morally acceptable than our own.
I claim THEY should get used to it, now what?
If it was no problem to do WoW raids with 40 people 5-6 days per week from 6pm to 11pm while there were 45 ppl in guild and 5 from them were just subs it should not be problem to do dugeons / raids here. I think the people who yelling and are rude at others are just jerks without friend, nobody like em, FC dont like em, so thats why they are alone making pugs or raiding via duty finder.
You seem to be confused.
No one said anything about wasting an evening or wiping over and over again.
How much time does it really take to explain a fights mechanic?
Maybe a minute or two and if this minute or 2 is so bad for some of the players who play a game (and not getting ready for an all important world saving mission like some might mistake a game for nowadays) than yes i would say they act rather selfish and could be considered the cancer of the community.
I never read up a dungeon before as well and lets be honest you dont need to most mechanics are very easy and if the pt feels the need to explain the mechanic to me after all(spends the 1 minute) i take the advise and just do it.
Now i do understand that some players just suck they need guides videos and all that stuff since they lack the ability to grasp the mechanics while they go but only cause they suck doesnt mean we all should use guides.
I play a White Mage, and like to follow the cinematics. They can either wait or start without me. It's upto them.
I dont care if a person doesnt know the fight, I'll be happy to explain it, others have had to do the same for me when I was new to the dungeon. I dont mind trying out tactics with a group who is completely new, ive done it as well.
What does kinda annoy me is when people in the group asks if everyone knows the fight, everyone says yes, and then people clearly dont need the fight.
But you shouldn't have to feel humiliated. I think that's part of the problem. It's like people feel "ashamed" for not having done a dungeon before.
Why? Everyone has a first time - including the people who wrote the guides you have up on your second screen.
The problem is impatience, intolerance and self-entitlement of the "me, me, me... now, now, now" generation that's overtaken this genre.
There's nothing wrong in wiping on a dungeon boss. It's supposed to be a challenge. It's not supposed to be a cake-walk that you automatically beat "in the first go". Or even the second. Or third if necessary.
The problem is, all people care about is "getting the reward". They're not enjoying the content along the way, they're "dealing with it" and trying to get through it as fast as possible. Because all they care about is the loot/xp they get at the end.
If I'm in a group with people who are impatient about the fact that it's my first time in there, and rather than offering helpful info/advice, they choose to bitch at me and try to make me feel bad because -gasp- I'd never done that content before, I remind them that they, too, were once new at everything in the game, that they had to learn as well. I suggest that rather than being a douchebag toward me, they could have simply offered some helpful tips instead. Then I invite them to kiss my ass.
As for "you should study the encounter before you go in". Screw that. I'm playing a game to play the game. Everything I need to know about the game I can learn by playing it. I'm not going to spend time "studying" a game, like I'm in freaking college, because some other player with no patience can't handle spending a few moments to fill me in on the major point.s There aren't many things you *need* to remember in any given fight in XIV.
So, again... there's no reason to be "humiliated" because you didn't know how to beat a boss the first time. That's called playing the game and learning as you go.
Every time someone tries to push me through anything in a game, I simply slow down. The resulting rage is quite entertaining.
Not to mention it's like a little mini-game.
I'm really beginning to think it is the ultimate MMO burnout. I played WoW from vanilla through WotlK. It was my second MMO after FFXI, and it really couldn't be any different. I was in love with quests and the context they provided the world. I was even more in love with dungeons. I ran the hell out of UBRS, Strat, Scholo, BRD and Dire Maul in vanilla, in addition to all the raids - like seriously ran the hell out of them. I never got tired of them all the way up until the first expansion arrived, which was just so jam packed with dungeon and raid content that I had my hands full for literally another full year and a half. I took a break at some point before WotlK arrived, but then got back into it and had a blast again for another full expansion, although there were some ups and downs - and a lot less content.
But at some point not long after killing the Lich King, I just got really burned out. I didn't think it was anything I hadn't felt before and came back from, so I expected to come back for Cata. I tried it for a month and didn't even play the whole month, and I don't think it was because Cata was that bad. I actually really loved the old world remake, and the dungeons and 1 raid I played a little of were alright enough. It was just that more dungeons and more quests, no matter how well done, were ever going to carry the same longevity they once did for me because I've already seen it all. This was confirmed for me when I got that inevitable itch to play an MMO several times over the last 3 years and encountered the same exact feeling in Rift, Aion, AoC and Tera. They all have their unique qualities that make them pretty cool in areas, but they all have the same quests and dungeons that I'm familiar with. I instantly feel like a longtime veteran of the game.
The only game that has managed to make me love MMOs again after my seemingly permanent WoW-type game burnout has been Guild Wars 2. It's just different enough in so many areas that my quest and dungeon burnout doesn't apply...well maybe the dungeon burnout applies, but I think I just don't like GW2's dungeons to begin with compared to other MMOs. But that's fine, because that's such a minor part of the game.
As far as FFXIV goes, it still has my attention so far, but that's because I'm still feeling my way through the game and am in hardcore progression mode. If nothing else, one has to admit FFXIV gives players a lot of goals to pursue. I do already dread having to go back and redo dungeons I've already completed. They're all cool the first time though, but unlike my vanilla WoW days where I was able to run the same huge cavernous labyrinths literally hundreds of times, I find myself not wanting to run these more than once or twice - which is exactly the ultimate burnout we're talking about. I recognize that these are pretty well done dungeons. But NO dungeon, no matter how well done, is capable of holding my attention longer than one or two runs anymore. This makes me sad, but it really can't be helped
And when half the group feels the same exact way, when they all feel like veterans of the dungeon world and expect to be able to speed run, you get the mentalities that create create the miserable group experiences this thread is about.
Getting more loot is the only purpose of playing this game. And when you've played a bunch of times with unprepared people already, it makes sense to only play with people who are.
Edit: You see the same thing in games that feature PvP. It's way more satisfying to win at PvP. Therefore when you're forming a group, form one with players that are prepared (with gear) to win.
True, however the biggest problem right now in the game regarding endgame material is that a LOT of players are walking in blind to it. Its not hard to watch a youtube video on the boss mechanics so at leas you don't need 10 wipes to figure it all out.
Agree that some people try really hard for a group of people who cant be bothered to form their own groups outside of the duty finder.
Simply put, a in game voice chat would do wonders. Also you have a lot of PS3 players whos only option is to get a smart phone app for voice chat.
Spoken like someone who will leave the game when something else is released. I'm seeing a familiar tone here with this game. Very SWTOR. It's a good game but with only a few months of content, maybe a bit more for a casual player, the heavy hour crowd will have gotten bored.
I get 3 hours on a weekday MAX, usually just 2 1/2. And a bit more on weekends. Not 8+ hours a day for weeks. You have several different kinds of people that play these games, communication is key as in SWTOR when it was just released. When you LFG, make sure to let people know your not looking for a quick loot run. If you hold out for people like you who want to experience the dungeons you won't have this issue. I won't tolerate people who want to rush by everything and leave you running to always catch up. I'll leave the group immediately and try to find another group, especially when I stated that I didn't want to rush through. What these people try to do is make you feel bad or inadequate when it is they themselves with the problem. They are selfish asshats ^ exhibit 'A'.
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
That was fun trying to figure how to kill that slime no one wipe on him though. That dungeon was fun as hell.
If you are going to pug groups, this is to be expected. If it bothers you, you need to find a clan and do the dungeons with them. That said, you can go to the inn and watch every cinematic, that's why people get annoyed.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
Lack of manners and being a jackass seems to be ok then pug or not?
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999
That is so, so sad. Your only purpose for playing the game is to get virtual goods that mean nothing and will doubtless be outdated soon enough as the treadmill starts?
The only purpose for you to play the game is to get virtual stats?
Take a good, long look at yourself in the mirror and see if you should be playing MMOs. If you aren't playing them for fun experiences, then you are probably not going to be happy. Of course you will be frustrated with other people who interrupt your loot quest with questions, because lets face it: You aren't really having fun playing the game anyway and so probably have a short temper.
When you pay for my sub then you can dictate what I do. Until that time you play the way you want and I will play the way I want.As someone who has relic, and almost full DL (just need the leg/foot combo for WAR), I find it hilarious that people are asking for experience for encounters like Hydra and Chimera. Huh? It's a quest encounter. Unless you're specifically looking for players who fucking FAILED at it, it makes absolutely no sense.
I also run CM quite fast and I understand it's annoying when people are new BUT the biggest irritating thing that has occured because of jerks getting mad at new players is that they never SAY they're new. So you end up just getting right pissed thinking they know what they're doing but don't. For new players, I know it's hard and you will probably encounter a fair share of assholes, but for a lot of us "good guys/girls", say you're new so we can explain fights/movements/etc.
Oh, and enjoy the game.
When you start the instance, it automatically states whether or not someone in party is new or not.
That doesn't mean he doesn't know what to do.
In Amdapor we wiped on 2nd boss but was still tagged as "new" when I tried to join another party, I told them I knew everything till 2nd boss and they explained me last boss only.
I agree with him, people don't pay attention to the new message so why not waste 1 minute and type "hi guys I'm new mind explaining what I need to do?"
The fanboys in this game are the most annoying of any I have seen yet. Take your own advice...why complain about something that has nothing to do with you?
Here is a novel concept....elitists who require qualifications should not pug? Because this is a pug issue too. If you are going to be picky then you should not pug.