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I've met a dozen or more level 50 players...

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  • gessekai332gessekai332 New York City, NYPosts: 877Member Common
    Originally posted by goozmania

    FATES and the speed of leveling have been putting me off buying what otherwise looks like a pretty good game. I don't think it's the "content locusts'" fault, and they are more than likely correct. When a game makes it take a day to reach max level, they'd better have months of content for those people; otherwise it should simply take much longer to level.

     

    If levels are trivial, why have them at all? This is essentially what SOE has decided, but they went the opposite way that I would go, by removing them... I would make them harder.

    Have fun trying to match speed with the powerlevelers that claim to get 50 in a day. You will find that you are very very wrong.

    Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  • Solid_AltairSolid_Altair RecifePosts: 27Member
    Originally posted by gessekai332

    End game crafting isnt being self sustainable. If you think thats the reason this explains why you completely misunderstand crafting and think it is shallow. Crafting in the game is definitely complex compared to what else is out there right now. In order to be actually good at crafting you need to understand the techniques/ skill sequences and have proper combinations of gear/materia/food  in order to HQ items in the game. trying to HQ something with 40/40 durability necessitates a different technique combination than trying to HQ something with 40/40 durability. the most effective combinations are still being talked about even until now(http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1mh6um/crafting_guidetheorycrafting_dont_let_crafters/). effectiveness as a crafter borrows greatly from cross professional skills, even moreso than battle classes. Also, In order for me to HQ certain items its insanely important to decide what food to use (control/craftsmanship/ CP).  There is a reason you dont see the market completely flooded with lvl 50 HQ crafts thats because only the best crafters can make them at a somewhat decent success rate.

     

    Icing on the cake: lvl 50 crafting outfits are Badass :P.

    Could you please tell me what the hell Control is? I failed in googling it, but I also don't want to dive in your link, cause Id on't want to be too much spoiled about how the system works. I find that gradually figuring out the rules and rationales is a big part of the fun. Seeing an already calculated best formula seems like a spoiler to me, unless you took part in the discussion to calculate it, which I sure didn't in this case :P

  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Posts: 847Member Uncommon

    Slightly off topic I know

    I do feel for the newer players who are trying to get to a Fate. As they haven't got the mount yet, they are running to the spot - to get overtaken by mounted Fate zergs, full of players leveling their second, third or fourth class.

    At least most people where running around when I leveled my main. Now it's get to the Fate immediately - because it's going to be done and gone in a minute.

     

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,436Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by IridescentOrk
    Not everyone likes crafting, so I guess some players will have to keep grinding in dungeons once they are level 50; some of these players will be grinding in dungeons until they can't take it anymore, other will reach cap and trash the game; to each their own.

    Well you don't have to just craft,there are the resources to use or sell and make currency.

    There is the chocobo quest ,fishing,Fates,Leves,Hests it doesn't have to be played like Wow and just run dungeons,instances.

    People could form bonds and create groups to fight mobs but instead choose to randomly run around looking to complete the dungeons/bosses.This is complete linear Wow type game play right to the tee,speed level then grind Bosses.Nobody is forcing anyone to do just that,so makes you wonder why they are,is that how they have been conditioned to play every game like Wow?

    I think when housing comes out people will use it ,some will garden but i see no matter what Square brings out ,the majority will still play like Wow.I see it in FFXI a MUCH older game so no reason to think it is going to change in any  new game anytime soon.

    Perhaps this is why games need to lose the levels altogether and definitely LOSE the hand holding so that players actually explore and treat a RPG like a real game world and not like a paint by numbers game.Players should be forced to eat and drink and have to harvest/craft to make those items just to survive.I find it lol when Square decided on gear wear yet are not forced to eat or drink.Eco systems ,fighting for resources should all be part of this genre,players should be living in the world not playing in auto mode towards Bosses and leveling.


    Samoan Diamond

  • gessekai332gessekai332 New York City, NYPosts: 877Member Common
    Originally posted by Solid_Altair
    Originally posted by gessekai332

    End game crafting isnt being self sustainable. If you think thats the reason this explains why you completely misunderstand crafting and think it is shallow. Crafting in the game is definitely complex compared to what else is out there right now. In order to be actually good at crafting you need to understand the techniques/ skill sequences and have proper combinations of gear/materia/food  in order to HQ items in the game. trying to HQ something with 40/40 durability necessitates a different technique combination than trying to HQ something with 40/40 durability. the most effective combinations are still being talked about even until now(http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1mh6um/crafting_guidetheorycrafting_dont_let_crafters/). effectiveness as a crafter borrows greatly from cross professional skills, even moreso than battle classes. Also, In order for me to HQ certain items its insanely important to decide what food to use (control/craftsmanship/ CP).  There is a reason you dont see the market completely flooded with lvl 50 HQ crafts thats because only the best crafters can make them at a somewhat decent success rate.

     

    Icing on the cake: lvl 50 crafting outfits are Badass :P.

    Could you please tell me what the hell Control is? I failed in googling it, but I also don't want to dive in your link, cause Id on't want to be too much spoiled about how the system works. I find that gradually figuring out the rules and rationales is a big part of the fun. Seeing an already calculated best formula seems like a spoiler to me, unless you took part in the discussion to calculate it, which I sure didn't in this case :P

    1) Its not a "Best" formula, its just a discussion and theorycrafting about potential skill order. Besides that reddit link, there is a large variety of combinations of skill orders that individuals crafters use and swear by.

     

    2) control is the stat that affects the amount progress made in the quality bar whenever you use one of your "touch" skills. the more control you have, the more your quality bar(bottom bar) increases per turn, and the higher the chance you will successfully HQ an item. craftsmanship on the other hand affects the progress on the completion bar (top bar). durability is how many turns you have left in order to complete the item before it breaks. In a nutshell, crafting is being able to juggle all these, utilizing different skills, gear, food,  in order to get an item completed or HQ'ed.

    Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  • monstermmomonstermmo Glendale, CAPosts: 1,062Member
    lol Not everybody enjoys crafting.

    Jeremiah 8:21 I weep for the hurt of my people; I stand amazed, silent, dumb with grief.
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  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member
    I'm leveling all the Mage classes in parallel. Should take me some time to get all 4 Mage job to 50.
  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by goozmania

    FATES and the speed of leveling have been putting me off buying what otherwise looks like a pretty good game. I don't think it's the "content locusts'" fault, and they are more than likely correct. When a game makes it take a day to reach max level, they'd better have months of content for those people; otherwise it should simply take much longer to level.

     

    If levels are trivial, why have them at all? This is essentially what SOE has decided, but they went the opposite way that I would go, by removing them... I would make them harder.

     

    To answer why you need "levels" at all: in the case of crafting, it introduces another aspect to player decisions: they do not only need to think about the economic aspect about  choosing to craft a certain item, but also how much "progression" towards being able to do current recipies easier and being able to do more difficult recipies. Without any form of progression on the crafting classes, you'll just dumb down by giving less amount of meaningful aspects to consider.

  • Bandaid47Bandaid47 bandaid, IDPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by goozmania

    FATES and the speed of leveling have been putting me off buying what otherwise looks like a pretty good game. I don't think it's the "content locusts'" fault, and they are more than likely correct. When a game makes it take a day to reach max level, they'd better have months of content for those people; otherwise it should simply take much longer to level.

     

    If levels are trivial, why have them at all? This is essentially what SOE has decided, but they went the opposite way that I would go, by removing them... I would make them harder.

     

    To answer why you need "levels" at all: in the case of crafting, it introduces another aspect to player decisions: they do not only need to think about the economic aspect about  choosing to craft a certain item, but also how much "progression" towards being able to do current recipies easier and being able to do more difficult recipies. Without any form of progression on the crafting classes, you'll just dumb down by giving less amount of meaningful aspects to consider.

     Not sure why some people speed leveling would put you off from a game...there must be few games you would play if that's the case.

    Yes you will want to get into a fate farming group every now and then...its actually quite fun and you need the seals (GC currency).

    They are nice for putting you over a level and opening up quests ect.

    Yes some take it too far and ignore all the other aspects of the game...and they pay the price for it at 50.  Not to mention they burn out on fates which is sad since they can be really fun...and very useful your second trip to 50.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tinybina
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Tinybina
    Originally posted by gamerkid78
    Weird how the game has been only out for a few weeks and alot of level 50's already? Played in beta but never pre-ordered. Looking to get the game now or in the following days leading to this weekend.

     

     

    Game launched on what the 27th for regular people?  And it had people lvl 50 by the 30th or before. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/678050-final-fantasy-xiv-online-a-realm-reborn/67160287

     

    I think that speaks volumes about this game easy mode game.

    The game was not designed around leveling a single class to 50 but multiple. It would be like playing any other MMO and getting to level 25 and saying. See, It's easy mode.

     

    Anarchy Online introduced the idea of Parallel leveling systems with it's Perks, Alien levels and research levels. All were distinct leveling and you had to make choices where the XP went. No one there ever thought you were done leveling after just leveling one of these areas of the game.

     

    Anarchy Online and this game have nothing in common.  There was tons of stuff to do in that game and it was not easy mode either.. Sure they had their farm spots where you can gain a lot of levels quickly, but they needed those spots since their lvl cap was 200 not 50....

     

    And do some of you see how silly you sound mentioning crafting as end game content?  Really?...

    FATE leveling in FF14 is very reminiscent of Anarchy Online's Heck Team leveling where  people go AFK for 2-3 hrs while they get leveled sitting on the side of a hill with their thumbs up their asses watching NT's AOE dozens of Hecks? And yeah 200 levels is 4 time more,but I have seen people in Anarchy cap in less time getting to 200 on a Heck team and then on to Inferno, than it takes to get to 50 in FF14. And there is much more to FF14 than just Fates So, yeah, the comparison is valid.

    AS for Crafting being endgame, there were many players of SWG where crafting wasn't just endgame, it was the only game.

    Another game that was famous for powerleveling was City of Heroes. Remember Drek and side kicking lowbies?, Low level toons sitting at the entrance to a high level instance doing nothing but chatting while the firetank went and cleared the map. A level one toon walked into the instance sat and did nothing,  some minutes later walked out level 15. This was repeated over and over and over.

     

    And yes, players did complain about Anarchy and that Docs and Enfos shouldn't be able to pocket tank for an outside team. It was still largely done because in Anarchy, that really is the only way to truly level your character. Well, there is cyborgs too but it's the same concept except the NT doesn't require an outside tank. Also it's effectiveness drops off at TL5. At least in FF14, you still have more options.

  • icculus2112icculus2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 105Member
    Originally posted by gamerkid78
    Weird how the game has been only out for a few weeks and alot of level 50's already? Played in beta but never pre-ordered. Looking to get the game now or in the following days leading to this weekend.

    Welcome to every MMORPG the last few years.  FFXIV was actually slower to 50 than most of the recent games.

    Although the initial content is holding up better than recent games.  The first raid isnt until 2.1, but the hardest group content still has yet to be beaten.  Rift's initial raid content was cleared within two weeks.

  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Woodstock, GAPosts: 1,378Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gessekai332
    Originally posted by FlawSGI
    Originally posted by gessekai332
    i am lvl 43 on my paladin right now and i have been playing since early access (although i did put a lot of time into my blacksmith). Ieveling is not easy mode for most people. it is only easy mode if you are a hardcore gamer who normally plays the game 60 hrs a week.  this is coming from a person who has played mmorpgs softcore to hardcore for over 10 years now.

     You've been an MMO's for over 10 years and this type stuff surprises you enough to write and tell others how ignorant some people are? I'll admit that FFXIV has made the crafting side of the game as time consuming as the combat side, but it's not hard to understand why people don't do it nor care enough to invest time in it. I have a really high craft and I have to tell you I can't fathom why crafters rush to 50 on their trade skills because I don't find a lot of enjoyment out of market watching, spamming  lev 50 crafter LFW, and watching my money rise for no real reason since there isn't anything in the game ATM that I need to invest my money in. I do love being self sustainable, but getting to that point has been a boring ride and I don't see end game crafting being a better alternative to dungeon grinding. I also won't pretend that it's some complicated system in place that takes intelligence to understand but to each his own. The game is seriously nose diving for me after a couple of weeks and I keep looking for something to give it staying power so I keep trying new things hoping one of them will spark my interest, crafting sure isn't it.

    End game crafting isnt being self sustainable. If you think thats the reason this explains why you completely misunderstand crafting and think it is shallow. Crafting in the game is definitely complex compared to what else is out there right now. In order to be actually good at crafting you need to understand the techniques/ skill sequences and have proper combinations of gear/materia/food  in order to HQ items in the game. trying to HQ something with 40/40 durability necessitates a different technique combination than trying to HQ something with 40/40 durability. the most effective combinations are still being talked about even until now(http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/1mh6um/crafting_guidetheorycrafting_dont_let_crafters/). effectiveness as a crafter borrows greatly from cross professional skills, even moreso than battle classes. Also, In order for me to HQ certain items its insanely important to decide what food to use (control/craftsmanship/ CP).  There is a reason you dont see the market completely flooded with lvl 50 HQ crafts thats because only the best crafters can make them at a somewhat decent success rate.

     

    Icing on the cake: lvl 50 crafting outfits are Badass :P.

     First I never said end game crafting had anything to do with being self sustainable, only I enjoyed that about the crafting. I never called it shallow either, I just don't think it's as deep a system as you make it sound because compared to FFXI, it's a cake walk.

    Second, I never claimed to have reached max level crafting but I do have a 44 woodworker and I am active in talking with the members in my FC so I know what to expect and how to maximize material usage vs. spending so I am not sure why you make assumptions and attack me and say I don't understand the crafting. I just don't enjoy it as the time sink it has been and I don't try to talk like it is something that only few can master and understand because it isn't. Maybe the market isn't flooded with HQ's at 50 because the gear isn't as good as those other gears people are wearing at 50 and this has been complained about plenty already.

    Take a breath and re read my comments before white knighting please. I acknowledge that the crafting is better than in other games, but it isn't nearly as deep as you sell it and I don't think that just because people have no interest in it that they are doing it wrong like you assume they are, they just prefer dungeon runs and group play over craft grind.

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDPosts: 16,905Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
     

    The game was not designed around leveling a single class to 50 but multiple. It would be like playing any other MMO and getting to level 25 and saying. See, It's easy mode.

     

     

     

    My only problem with this type of idea is I prefer different looks according to what job I'd be filling. I'd feel weird playing as a little tiny tank, or a giant oaf lumbering along being "sneaky".   My options in that regard would be rather limited per character.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

    It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  • goozmaniagoozmania chino, CAPosts: 145Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bandaid47

     Not sure why some people speed leveling would put you off from a game...there must be few games you would play if that's the case.

     

    You are right. I don't play any MMO anymore, and that is a major reason why. 5 levels in an hour makes leveling pointless and uninteresting. I was concerned about this game's rapid leveling speed when I watched videos, then I experienced it in beta, and it saddened me. I'm not a "locust", but I'm sure I'd be max level in at least 1 class in less than a week. I'd rather just keep playing my PS3 games, where the solo experience is more fulfilling than a solo MMO.

     

    Btw, just finished Tales of Graces, and I loved it :-D

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by goozmania
    Originally posted by Bandaid47

     Not sure why some people speed leveling would put you off from a game...there must be few games you would play if that's the case.

     

    You are right. I don't play any MMO anymore, and that is a major reason why. 5 levels in an hour makes leveling pointless and uninteresting. I was concerned about this game's rapid leveling speed when I watched videos, then I experienced it in beta, and it saddened me. I'm not a "locust", but I'm sure I'd be max level in at least 1 class in less than a week. I'd rather just keep playing my PS3 games, where the solo experience is more fulfilling than a solo MMO.

     

    Btw, just finished Tales of Graces, and I loved it :-D

    You should look it more like a FF tactics game: sure you may have leveled one of your characters really high, but the other are falling behind and you are nowhere done just because you leveled one character high. Instead of multiple characters imagine now that they are all the same character:P.

     

    Yes the leveling is fast and yes, it looks as if it was designed to level more than 1 class to 50.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon

     


        
    Originally posted by Distopia    

            
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer        

                

            The game was not designed around leveling a single class to 50 but multiple. It would be like playing any other MMO and getting to level 25 and saying. See, It's easy mode.                      
             My only problem with this type of idea is I prefer different looks according to what job I'd be filling. I'd feel weird playing as a little tiny tank, or a giant oaf lumbering along being "sneaky".   My options in that regard would be rather limited per character.
       

     

    That's a fair complaint, but is that a problem with the game design or just a matter of personal preference? For the record, I too approached this game differently when I rolled my character based on only having a single character in the game. This method of Game play did alter how I usually select my appearances which is somewhat similar to your own and thus I approached FF14 thinking a Hyur was probably the best overall fit. Although, I think, I was less impacted by it than you, since it really didn't bother me so much. But I do understand. In most of my MMOs, I hate rolling Male casters...... Men running around in bright colored bathrobes and dresses. And FF14 takes it to the next level too. Sheesh!

  • SaoenSaoen Chicago, ILPosts: 12Member
    Originally posted by gessekai332
    .. who seem to know zero about the game other than dungeon grinding. Since I am a lvl 50 blacksmith i meet a lot of other high lvl players through my services. I've seen a lot of players with AF armor but most of them are poor and have no clue how to make money, many of them having less than 50k gil, and they dont fully understand how melding/converting/crafting/gathering works.  Its pretty incredible how many people today play mmorpgs like single player games they only want to be on that one road to the end of the game and nothing else.  Its no wonder people are feeling bored already, they dont understand how to enjoy an mmorpg that has other side elements to it, unless they are explicitly told what to do.

    I can agree with that hands down. If your going to town and hit 50 in the first week and bitch about no end game content? I just laugh and continue playing cause these are the people that most likely wont sub anyway for the "lack" of content

  • OziiusOziius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,388Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Voqar

    Not only are there tons of 50's (you can hit 50 in a few days easily) but guilds are already selling content...want that HM boss kill?  Only costs you 200k!  Of course, the only way you'd have 200k to spend on that is if you're a gil buying cheater.  It's  just all around sleazery - gil spammers AND cheesebag guilds selling content to cheaters.  Awesome.

     

    Can you explain this? Easy for who? I have been playing since the 24th and I just hit level 20 on my main class lol. Granted, I'm a admitted casual player with a career, wife and child.  I play about 2 hours every other night. I'm more then fine with all of those facts. I'm happy because I never gt bored of a game lol. 

     

    But honestly.. am I more the norm of an MMO player these days.. or is someone who can hit 50 in a "few days easily" the norm? How many hours a day would you have to play to hit 50 in a few days "easily"? A few days is like what? 2 days? 3 max? You would have to play like 12-14 hours a day? Who does that? Can people really do that? I'm not saying they're wrong if they can, I'm just honestly amazed. 

     

    I was under the impression that the players who I was seeing that were level 50 were mostly from 1.0 lol. Let me ask you this.. If you as a player have the capability to to hit max level in pretty much any MMO in less then a week... is any game ever gonna make you happy?

  • JacobinJacobin Toronto, ONPosts: 697Member Uncommon

    To a lot of people crafting and gathering is even more boring than grinding dungeons.

  • RaxeonRaxeon cedar falls, IAPosts: 2,089Member Uncommon
    theres only been a few people to actully beat the coils
  • evilizedevilized columbus, OHPosts: 564Member Uncommon
    I'm in a FC on a non legacy server and we have beaten legacy servers to world 1st coil boss kills so yeah... not a difficult game. I was 50 on the 29th, our main raid group was 50 on the 26th. Just running quests and fates without sleep gets you there quick.
  • The_emberThe_ember SheffieldPosts: 51Member
    Originally posted by Raxeon
    theres only been a few people to actully beat the coils

     

    Has an FC cleared turn 5 now then?

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