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This is possibly why you don't like FFXIV (huge grain of salt before entering)
Foomerang
Member UncommonPosts: 5,628
Ok so I am not trying to flame anyone or bash anyone's preference. You are not wrong for disliking this game and your opinions are valid.
That said, wtf is wrong with you?! lol jk jk
Anyway, I believe that there is although FFXIV appears to be the typical themepark, ther is a fundamental design difference that puts people off who would normally enjoy a tab target trinity dungeon grinder.
We all know the traditional combat/crafting approach in modern themeparks: combat is the main focus with multiple builds, strategies, pvp, arenas, dungeons, raids, all different shapes and sizes, ways to kill things etc.
Crafting in these types of games, is typically designed for people who hate crafting. I know that sounds weird but its true. Crafting is something you can do when you're sick of combat, or you're bored waiting for a queue. Its usually purely self serving and its incentive directly enhances your ability to do combat better.
My theory is that FFXIV flipped this tradition on its head. Crafting in this game has varied situational use. FOr example, as a crafter, I can partake in high end items, meld grind items, furniture and decor (soon), high quality components, i can work solo or in large groups collaborating on every pice that goes into a final product. Hell I even have a gathering class (fishing) that exists purely as a downtime activity. It has very little, if any attachment to combat or crafting.
Combat, in this game, is something that I enjoy when Im not crafting. And Im not the only one. I see just as many people crafting and gathering as I do running fates. In fact, I am noticing more fate runners that are there purely for the spirit bond.
Could it be SE made an mmo that had combat for people who typically dont do combat? That is probably stretching it a bit. I think deep down they want to make a game that appeals to raiders and dungeoneers alike. I mean a lot of content development is still going into combat related activities.
Still, it poses an interesting thought. Better yet, it offers up a different approach to the way most people play mmos. I do more socializing as a crafter in this game. Ive met more people looking for HQ components I need than Ive met looking to fill my group for a dungeon run. Ive had more "YES!" moments as a crafter than I have in combat. Ive had times when Ive procc'd the perfect gathering chain and it felt like a legit gaming moment. Just as legit as tanking a boss. Maybe that just means the combat in this game is so bland, it makes the other stuff look great haha. You could argue that. But I do have fun crafting, gathering and tanking dungeons, questing, running fates. So who knows.
Something to ponder. Maybe you don't like FFXIV because the combat is bad. Ive played mmos I didnt like because the crafting is bad. It goes both ways. Perhaps this is an mmo that goes in a direction that you just dont prefer. Does that make it the wrong direction? Judging by how many people are enjoying the crafting/gathering aspect, I dont think so.
Anyway,
chime on in. id like to see an open minded discussion on this. theres plenty of other threads for talking about how much you hate this game and why. Lets keep this thread a little less....like that heh.
thanks!
Comments
This really! People are just burned out and this game didn't took that feeling away from them. So they are dissapointed and start bitching instead.
Personally I love just about every aspect of the game. Sure, there are issues that come to mind like the gil seller spam, still having some problems getting the whole "dodge" mechanic to work optimally, crafting mats and such being wonky....but these are minimal inconveniences that can and (I believe) will be addressed.
Hell, for once I'm excited about PvP in a game, and that's coming from a previously pure PvE player.
^ this
I don't get why some seem totally unable to grasp that just because they like it a lot of others don't. The game is already underperfomring compared to lots of other titles that have had far more successful launches, and this was mmos without big names behind them.
I loved the secret world and thought it was going to be a major success, most everyone else disagreed with me. Just because you don't see fault in XIV doesn't mean most others share your opinion.
The truth is XIV has many faults and many reasons that it will lose most of its players in the coming year. You can argue that chocolate is better than rasberry and that everyone should like chocolate but at the end of the day you aren't going to change anyones tastes. They either like something or they don't. FFXIV to me was a pretty big failure from what I was expecting, it's not XI and it's not even better than other games I've played in the last couple of years. It's pretty but that's not enough.
posted by Cymdai
"Issue #1: Crafting is utterly useless
As I got my LTW to 50, I had a sense of relief. "Alright, I'm done with THAT part of the game..." I thought to myself. I figured with my newfound craft, I'd be able to start making money almost immediately in the game. There is just one small problem; there is no demand for hardly anything. Gear, which should be utilized to a degree by all classes, isn't necessary. Because of the incredible ease of the game, it hasn't been uncommon to see people wearing severely outdated gear throughout the game. I've seen level 40's rocking level 18 armor, and to no real penalty. Since there's no reason for combat classes to buy gear, there's no reason to craft combat gear. Furthermore, combat classes can get gear cheaper/free, and easier simply by doing quests and dungeons. Furthermore, due to Issue#2, people are leveling so fast and efficiently that there's no reason to EVER buy gear! In fact, the irony of crafting +gathering and +crafting gear is that the only people who buy it is fellow crafters and gatherers. Essentially, you're creating gear for crafting because it's mandatory, but crafting has no purpose other than to build more crafting gear...and, of course, materia melding. I basically spent all my gil buying crystals and ingredients to level a craft which is now essentially worthless. Also, since no one needs to buy anything... there is no economy. Gil is essentially used to skilling up a craft, or repairing your end game gear. That's it. And once you lose it, it's 10x harder to make it back, because there is ample supply, and meager demand. This is probably related to the fact that..."
Which is sad, because I think the crafting mechanics in this game are great. Did you ever play Vanguard?
Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
Pretty much my biggest fear for the game. When I said "for the most part" before this was my area of concern lol
I read this post by Cymdai, and he seemed to be a player who knew what he was talking about when he posted his concerns. Also, he wasn't alone in this, other people in the thread seemed to share the same concern so I suspect there is an issue here even if some of the posters in this thread haven't run into it.
At the end of the day, no matter how interesting the crafting system may be, if there is no demand for the goods you are making for the combat crowd, you haven't got a functioning economy.
One of the reason's why EVE has one of the best economic systems in any game is the fact the PVP combat results in tons of destroyed ships, hence creating more demand for new ones. PVE games have sometimes (in the distant past) put in gear degradation to create a similar situation and in one case, DAOC, has set up a situation where even if drops are good, a player always needs crafted pieces to round out their templates properly.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think you're right and I'm the same way. It seems the majority of players complaining about the game are "pure" combat players and complain about the crafting (and the game) because they don't like it. This IS a crafting FIRST game atm and I think the devs are smart here because players that stick with games the longest...and are more loyal are the crafters. It's no mystery that's why housing is in the very 1st patch.
SE is..however...adding PVP in the near future and on a large scale. FF ARR will surprise and confound a lot of the naysayers here.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
You can have your opinion but the problem I have with many of the negative posts here is that they're just factually wrong. FF ARR has far exceeded SE's expectations and is a VERY well done FUN game. I remember not so long ago when all the elitists (and YES...most of the people posting here ARE) said GW2 was the be all end all MMO - no need to look any further.
And I think I know why: There's a bias within this forum community against P2P games - which is why GW2 was so anticipated - no monthly sub. The negativity toward this game is just unwarranted and potential players who would REALLY like FF ARR are being turned off by it. If the game sucked I could understand but it doesn't.
So....if you don't like FF ARR fine - just don't go making up lies to back up your opinion.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
You talk about people being "factually wrong", and then proceed to spew off a bunch of opinion and unrelated tangents as proof. Quaint.
You then basically spill your closed-mindedness and bias all over the floor by stating that the negativity toward this game is "just unwarranted".
Excuse me, but who are you, and where do you get off dismissing others' opinions wholesale, simply because you don't share them?
Your entire post is a self-edifying and utterly baseless parade of nonsense, to be quite blunt.
People have different tastes, different likes and dislikes, different expectations, different definitions of "fun" and "un-fun". Their like or dislike of ARR, or of any game, or even anything is informed based on those likes and dislikes and values. The same goes for you. Because you like ARR, does not make it this untouchable thing that no one could credibly take issue with. It just means that you happen to like the game. And you are just one person, with one opinion. That opinion is neither sacred, nor universal.
People who dislike the game have stated, quite clearly, why they dislike it. Because you don't agree with those reasons doesn't "make them wrong". It simply means - and this is the important bit - that you don't share their opinions of the game. There is nothing criminal in someone disagreeing with you. There's nothing suspect in others not liking something you like. It's perfectly normal.
So, when people like you and others in this thread begin waxing analytical, theorizing on the "why's" behind people's criticisms of this game - inventing your own reasons why they must not like it, while ignoring the actual reasons they've given - all you succeed in doing is demonstrating a closed mind, incapable of accepting any opinion that doesn't reflect your own. Rather than being confident and content in your own opinion and enjoyment of the game, you have to make absurd posts, such as you and others have, to try and dismantle the views of any who disagree.
That's pretty sad.
Yeah I was already aware that I didn't like the game because the combat is boring. Which is a shame, because the rest of the world is nice and detailed (albiet boxed in). Anyway it is what it is, I have lots of friends raving about how great the crafting is, so you are probably right that it would appeal to that demographic.
I am generally more combat and PvP oriented. Perhaps if there is a combat revamp in the future to make it more responsive and fun I will check it out again, but for now I just have no motivation to log in.
For most gear pieces, ilevel70 HQ crafted gear with 5-melded materia will have more secondary stats than ilevel90 gear (af+1 and bahamut coil gear), but less primary stats due to lower ilevel. (Primary stat being def and m.def)
For weapons Relic+1 (which is ilevel90) looks like it strictly superior to 5-melded HQ crafted weapons; by how many % is hard to say, maybe like 10-20% more damage?
Keep in mind that this is the best of the best gear in the game we are comparing xD.
Furthermore, AF+1 can be equipped by dragoons, but not by lancers. An important restriction to keep in mind since lancer has access to plenty of useful crossclass abilities that dragoon does not have (dragoon is limited to only using puglist and maruder cross-class abilities).
So I was right then
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
Hahah..so true. What double standards really.
+1
The game is brand new and the economy is not established yet.
I would actually wager that the vast majority of the people who purchased the game enjoy it. Otherwise, reactions would be far worse.
You're in a place where threads on any particular title typically resemble, "This game is awful.", "This is why I hate this game.", "This is why this game will fail." and so on. I'm rather fond of the reasonable and intelligent individuals on mmorpg.com who foster interesting discussion. A rather good batch of community at times. But in many cases, these forums are flooded to the brim with venom and hyperbole.
Just my 2 cents.
This statement has a high level of accuracy.One thing Square does not do is make all kinds of wild accusations,they simply put out a game and hope people like it.
If you look at all the other developers and their marketing ploys,it gets a bit annoying.
I think i can offer a pretty good answer to where this game lacks because A i do like the game and B i am a fan of most of Square's work and i think overall they are a good developer.You would think i was a shoe in to play this game,well i am not.
The reason is the things i loved about FFXI were dumbed down in this game.Yes FFXI has made a lot of changes and imo MANY for the worse,it sort of tells me there has been a steady direction in the wrong direction.Those things were the class design and the group design and the combat design.All three of these area were dumbed down from FFXI,actually that was a poor choice of word,the truth is those systems were done with less effort.
At this point it is near impossible to predict Square Enix,they have shown be a really bad side and a really good side,so who knows what or who is making their decisions,it definitely does not look like the same person each time.They just made an utter crap FFXI expansion ,yet i did not see the same in FFXIV but FFXIV was also released a year ago.So i think i will get a MUCH better view of where Square is going in the first expansion and that is what i am waiting for.I do not want to start investing a lot of time and effort into a game if they go the route of Abyssea or Adoulin,those were very disappointing ways to create longevity/grind.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It will be interesting to see if/how they plan to address this. Granted, this is a totally different team from ffxi...but they had similar issues that they found ways to adjust for.
The only thing they got to fix currently is the balance between Relic+1 Weapon vs HQ 5-melded i70 weapon. Relic+1 is too strong in comparison.
As I mentioned above, when it comes to most other equipment, it is actually a trade-off between stats.
Actually I didn't care for it because of the tiny zone size, cutesy mobs, excessive loading screens, obtrusive cutscenes/storyline with creepy soundless dialogue, and extremely dull gameplay through the first 20 levels.
Seems like a lot of the folks playing the game really like it, which is great for them, and great for the game. But I don't think it's necessary to try and hypothesize why people don't like it, as if it is somehow their fault that this game didn't appeal to them. Maybe people like different things in games?
This. My ltw and armorer are both like around 45, made around 70k gi ish from crafting, and around 95% of it are from selling crafting meterial or gear , like steel ingot, leather, gloves for crafter..etc. battle classes gears are extreamly hard to sell. Why anyone buy a piece of leather armor for 5000 gil which increases your defense by merly 8, and only for the 3 hours before you replace it with a new one? you can even get better gear and weapons from GC quatermasters with seals which is extramly easy to get. The crafting part of the game is almost entirely seperated from the combat part, people buys crafted items only for crafting, and to make more crafted item to sell to other crafters. LOL