Originally posted by Panther2103 So that leaves you stuck using the duty finder, which at the moment is completely broken in terms of how long it takes for dps. It would have been a simple fix for them, make a couple more tank and a couple more healing classes. I don't understand why developers don't see this. If you balance out each specific type of class Tank Dps Healer with even amounts of classes that perform it in each, you get more people in each. If you had 5 tanks to choose from each catering to a specific type of player or just different types of tanking, I'm sure way more people would choose to tank. No matter what if you have 2 tank classes, 8 dps classes, and 2 healing classes there is such a variety in dps that a lot of people end up going there. I know if they had ninja tanks in the game right now I would be tanking.
Your assuming that just because the class is available, that players will play it. You could have 15 tank classes, 18 healer classes, and 2 DPS classes, and there would still be more DPS players than tank/healer players.
But that's the thing. A lot of players end up with the position of, I want to tank but the tank they have in the game doesn't fit my needs. Or even just the looks of the class in general. It just gives more options in that specific role, which is a much needed thing in games. You can keep the trinity and just push each role in different directions. I like the idea of a healer with a pet that heals that's cool, I'm glad they implemented that. But just think about how many different dps classes there are, Lancer, Archer, Marauder, Thamaturge each one being completely different than the last. I'm not saying it would fix the group finding 100% but it would surely balance it out a little bit. I know a lot of people who refuse to play tanks or healers because they don't have one that is a hybrid enough class, or one that is different.
I really don't see the point in gearscore apart from making someone think they're special for having done this and that. Last thing we all want is someone who wants to be special to give people hell just for wanting to play a game in their free time. I was in a dungeon in another game and some guy was QQing about dps. I said to the guy, look if you're not happy then leave the party, some of us just want to play and have fun we don't want to make it another job.
Gear score is not going away in this type of game. Get used to it.
You want random groups and instant queues? The developers MUST have a means to control the difficulty of the content. Allow anyone in and you have one of two situations: A walk thru by people with too much gear for the content and they can AOE pull and WoW-thru it OR you have a frustrating situation where a few people are trying to carry non geared folks thru.
However, I think what FF14 has done to instances in general is a travesty and an abomination. Not allowing any four players that want to try the content with whatever combination of classes they think can overcome that content with; is just 100% ridiculous. Completely eliminating player choice is ALWAYS bad. I have no problem with the Duty Finder requiring specific classes (One Tank and One Healer is another huge issue) but to not allow 4 friends to run content together because of their classes is crazy!
Square Enix: Finding creative new ways to stifle player experimentation and choice! Good job!
I routinely ran 5 man heroics with 3 people in WoW and it was the only way we enjoyed the content.. Cant do that with a PS3 port, no sir!
Personally, I say get rid of the dungeon finders as they are partially responsible for the collapse of community in the games!
After failing numerous times on Hard Mode Garuda because of people having level 30 quest gear I am all for Gear Score being implemented into the Duty Finder.
You really only run into the players demanding ridiculous gear for Amdapor Keep speed runs. Ive seen people demand that the tank have a full set of the token gear you run Amdapor Keep to get.
I dont feel like spending my time carrying people through dungeons they are not geared for. I spent the time and effort to get that gear now its their turn. From my perspective the people complaining Gear Score are the people that will be locked out of content because they are too lazy or bad to do what it takes to get to that content.
Originally posted by Lexin I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC because I refuse to grind dungeons all day just to buy/replace gear a week later. I honestly think gear treadmill is the worst thing in an MMO.
So you don't like it because you want your FC to carry you because you are too lazy to run the preliminary content everyone else runs in order to prepare for end game content?
Entitled much?
So if he wants to play with his FC more it means he wants to be carried by them?
Originally posted by Lexin I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC because I refuse to grind dungeons all day just to buy/replace gear a week later. I honestly think gear treadmill is the worst thing in an MMO.
So you don't like it because you want your FC to carry you because you are too lazy to run the preliminary content everyone else runs in order to prepare for end game content?
Entitled much?
So if he wants to play with his FC more it means he wants to be carried by them?
*shakes head*
If they had to work for their gear and he refuses to work for his then, yes, he'd be carried by them.
He may be the greatest player in the universe, but if can't be bothered to put in the effort then that's a shame.
The problem with a gear score system is that people assembling group always want a score higher than required.
This is why I think they should gate the content based on gear score but not make it visible to others.
It should be a tool to let you know know what you need to work on, not a way for others to evaluate you.
What would make it even better would be if it didn't even give you a score but specifically gave you suggestions based on your current gear. As in you choose the hardmode Ifrit encounter and hit an evaluate button, then it marks your boots, belt and a ring in a red outline and then when you mouse over them it suggests where you can go to get a replacement.
While at first gearscore / ilevel requirements seem to be a good idea, they're all too often abused, and used as a substitute for any sort of player class knowledge and / or skill. I'll take a smart player in level 5 gear over a dumbass in level 20 gear any day.
Not overly thrilled about this, but we'll see how it plays out.
None of you crying about gear scores and treadmills and blah blah blah I 100% guarantee haven't killed Garuda on hardmode or attempted Titan hardmode with a pug group...
You have absolutely no idea how outmatched individuals in AF gear who attempt these dungeons are and are destined to fail.
You guys get to level 45 and beat garuda easy and think you have an idea what SE is attempting to address but you just spew out ignorance...
While at first gearscore / ilevel requirements seem to be a good idea, they're all too often abused, and used as a substitute for any sort of player class knowledge and / or skill. I'll take a smart player in level 5 gear over a dumbass in level 20 gear any day.
Not overly thrilled about this, but we'll see how it plays out.
That smart player dies by the first AOE mechanic in Garuda or Titan hardmode, reckoning or tumult, which is unavoidable.
Another person posting with 0 perspective about those of us who get these under geared individuals who get 1 shotted and waste everyone's time.
This is a quality of life feature most necessary for a game with true endgame content.
While at first gearscore / ilevel requirements seem to be a good idea, they're all too often abused, and used as a substitute for any sort of player class knowledge and / or skill. I'll take a smart player in level 5 gear over a dumbass in level 20 gear any day.
Not overly thrilled about this, but we'll see how it plays out.
Well until they come up with some sort of player competency score, you're much better off choosing the player you don't know in level 20 gear over the player you don't know in level 5 gear.
But really, how smart is the smart guy in level 5 gear if he's still in level 5 gear when level 20 gear can be had by a dumbass.
While at first gearscore / ilevel requirements seem to be a good idea, they're all too often abused, and used as a substitute for any sort of player class knowledge and / or skill. I'll take a smart player in level 5 gear over a dumbass in level 20 gear any day.
Not overly thrilled about this, but we'll see how it plays out.
Well until they come up with some sort of player competency score, you're much better off choosing the player you don't know in level 20 gear over the player you don't know in level 5 gear.
But really, how smart is the smart guy in level 5 gear if he's still in level 5 gear when level 20 gear can be had by a dumbass.
The problem with a gear score system is that people assembling group always want a score higher than required.
This is why I think they should gate the content based on gear score but not make it visible to others.
It should be a tool to let you know know what you need to work on, not a way for others to evaluate you.
What would make it even better would be if it didn't even give you a score but specifically gave you suggestions based on your current gear. As in you choose the hardmode Ifrit encounter and hit an evaluate button, then it marks your boots, belt and a ring in a red outline and then when you mouse over them it suggests where you can go to get a replacement.
This is the way I would like to see it mostly. No one being able to see your GS, maybe not even you. A person knows their gear isn't up to par without having a number. I hated gear score in WoW. I remember getting kicked from a group for having the lowest score even though I was putting out the most dps, lol.
The only time I liked it was when there was a minimum to enter an instance. I would like to see that for here, just a nice hidden, you do not meet the requirements to queue for this. Now, if people just want to make their groups up, then no there shouldn't be any minimum because people know each other and what they're getting into. Maybe they want to carry 1 person and gear them up, but definitely not for randoms.
Originally posted by Lexin I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC because I refuse to grind dungeons all day just to buy/replace gear a week later. I honestly think gear treadmill is the worst thing in an MMO.
So you don't like it because you want your FC to carry you because you are too lazy to run the preliminary content everyone else runs in order to prepare for end game content?
Entitled much?
So if he wants to play with his FC more it means he wants to be carried by them?
*shakes head*
If they had to work for their gear and he refuses to work for his then, yes, he'd be carried by them.
He may be the greatest player in the universe, but if can't be bothered to put in the effort then that's a shame.
Some people don't like to play in pugs and prefer FC. And it is perfectly normal. I think you completely misunderstood what he said. He just don't want to pug any dungeons and i can understand his sentiments.
Originally posted by Lexin I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC because I refuse to grind dungeons all day just to buy/replace gear a week later. I honestly think gear treadmill is the worst thing in an MMO.
So you don't like it because you want your FC to carry you because you are too lazy to run the preliminary content everyone else runs in order to prepare for end game content?
Entitled much?
So if he wants to play with his FC more it means he wants to be carried by them?
*shakes head*
If they had to work for their gear and he refuses to work for his then, yes, he'd be carried by them.
He may be the greatest player in the universe, but if can't be bothered to put in the effort then that's a shame.
Some people don't like to play in pugs and prefer FC. And it is perfectly normal. I think you completely misunderstood what he said. He just don't want to pug any dungeons and i can understand his sentiments.
He didn't say anything about pugging. He said he didn't want to grind dungeons. The dungeons could be run via pug or a FC runs. Either way, he didn't want to bother with it because his gear will be replaced in a week.
Originally posted by Lexin I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC because I refuse to grind dungeons all day just to buy/replace gear a week later. I honestly think gear treadmill is the worst thing in an MMO.
So you don't like it because you want your FC to carry you because you are too lazy to run the preliminary content everyone else runs in order to prepare for end game content?
Entitled much?
So if he wants to play with his FC more it means he wants to be carried by them?
*shakes head*
If they had to work for their gear and he refuses to work for his then, yes, he'd be carried by them.
He may be the greatest player in the universe, but if can't be bothered to put in the effort then that's a shame.
Some people don't like to play in pugs and prefer FC. And it is perfectly normal. I think you completely misunderstood what he said. He just don't want to pug any dungeons and i can understand his sentiments.
He didn't say anything about pugging. He said he didn't want to grind dungeons. The dungeons could be run via pug or a FC runs. Either way, he didn't want to bother with it because his gear will be replaced in a week.
That is what I read. I understood perfectly.
I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC
So yeah he don't want to be locked out of doing content with FC because he is afraid that would force him to grind for gear with pugs. I think what he said was pretty self explanatory but you somehow though he is asking to be carried.
I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC
So yeah he don't want to be locked out of doing content with FC because he is afraid that would force him to grind for gear with pugs. I think what he said was pretty self explanatory but you somehow though he is asking to be carried.
/shrugs
You might want to read his post again, I think you're the one that can't comprehend what that poster was saying. He said he didn't want to be locked out from doing content with his FC because he doesnt want to grind for the equipment to be able to do that content to join his FC. Very simple deduction, he wants his FC to carry him because he's too lazy to get the required equipment to join them.
Originally posted by Lexin I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC because I refuse to grind dungeons all day just to buy/replace gear a week later. I honestly think gear treadmill is the worst thing in an MMO.
So you don't like it because you want your FC to carry you because you are too lazy to run the preliminary content everyone else runs in order to prepare for end game content?
Entitled much?
So if he wants to play with his FC more it means he wants to be carried by them?
*shakes head*
If they had to work for their gear and he refuses to work for his then, yes, he'd be carried by them.
He may be the greatest player in the universe, but if can't be bothered to put in the effort then that's a shame.
Some people don't like to play in pugs and prefer FC. And it is perfectly normal. I think you completely misunderstood what he said. He just don't want to pug any dungeons and i can understand his sentiments.
He didn't say anything about pugging. He said he didn't want to grind dungeons. The dungeons could be run via pug or a FC runs. Either way, he didn't want to bother with it because his gear will be replaced in a week.
That is what I read. I understood perfectly.
I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC
So yeah he don't want to be locked out of doing content with FC because he is afraid that would force him to grind for gear with pugs. I think what he said was pretty self explanatory but you somehow though he is asking to be carried.
/shrugs
I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC
because I refuse to grind dungeons all day just to buy/replace gear a week later.
So he want to run end game with his FC, but not run dungeons all day to earn the gear needed for it.
Why are you ignoring what he said? Just to win an internet argument? lol
I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC
because I refuse to grind dungeons all day just to buy/replace gear a week later.
So he want to run end game with his FC, but not run dungeons all day to earn the gear needed for it.
Why are you ignoring what he said? Just to win an internet argument? lol
/shrug.
Yes because everyone knows if you win an argument on internet you get popular with ladies.
However to be serious.... right now a lot of people are running end game content with their FC's and doing pretty well without the hassle of gear score. Yes gear matters but skills count a lot too. The gear score will put an end to it. maybe he is a good player and missing few stats but still doing great. But now since gear score check will tell him that he needs some more stats he will have to grind with pugs....maybe everyone in his FC is at a point where he has no one to run dungeons for tokens to get more gear.
So many reasons there, that is why i just found it a bit odd that you jumped to the conclusion that he wants to be carried. And the statement you underlined contradicts his first one if he is against grind because even if he with his FC he would still be grinding..there is only so far your FC can carry you. So in my opinion he has problem grinding with pugs but not his FC.
Evaluating gear score wow, that shines a cold harsh light on the the direction they want to take the game. Another game that is aiming for a certain market. Shame.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
This is not "Gear Score" from WoW. This game is its own game. While it might employ concepts from the industry, it is not a quick clone nor a copy of any MMO. If anything, it employs much of FFXI, which was released before WoW. Not everything revolves around WoW and most allof the concepts of WoW were borrowed from MMOs before it.
Originally posted by QSatu Sad for me but maybe people actually want gear treadmills as end game with clear progression path.
I think FF XIV really has two games. One is the 1-50 and the other is a gear treadmill at 50. It's up to you if you hop on the gear treadmill game, but that is the problem with most mmos, I think. Once you beat the main game you have to decide if you want to bother with the endgame or just move on and play another game.
Comments
But that's the thing. A lot of players end up with the position of, I want to tank but the tank they have in the game doesn't fit my needs. Or even just the looks of the class in general. It just gives more options in that specific role, which is a much needed thing in games. You can keep the trinity and just push each role in different directions. I like the idea of a healer with a pet that heals that's cool, I'm glad they implemented that. But just think about how many different dps classes there are, Lancer, Archer, Marauder, Thamaturge each one being completely different than the last. I'm not saying it would fix the group finding 100% but it would surely balance it out a little bit. I know a lot of people who refuse to play tanks or healers because they don't have one that is a hybrid enough class, or one that is different.
I really don't see the point in gearscore apart from making someone think they're special for having done this and that. Last thing we all want is someone who wants to be special to give people hell just for wanting to play a game in their free time. I was in a dungeon in another game and some guy was QQing about dps. I said to the guy, look if you're not happy then leave the party, some of us just want to play and have fun we don't want to make it another job.
Gear score is not going away in this type of game. Get used to it.
You want random groups and instant queues? The developers MUST have a means to control the difficulty of the content. Allow anyone in and you have one of two situations: A walk thru by people with too much gear for the content and they can AOE pull and WoW-thru it OR you have a frustrating situation where a few people are trying to carry non geared folks thru.
However, I think what FF14 has done to instances in general is a travesty and an abomination. Not allowing any four players that want to try the content with whatever combination of classes they think can overcome that content with; is just 100% ridiculous. Completely eliminating player choice is ALWAYS bad. I have no problem with the Duty Finder requiring specific classes (One Tank and One Healer is another huge issue) but to not allow 4 friends to run content together because of their classes is crazy!
Square Enix: Finding creative new ways to stifle player experimentation and choice! Good job!
I routinely ran 5 man heroics with 3 people in WoW and it was the only way we enjoyed the content.. Cant do that with a PS3 port, no sir!
Personally, I say get rid of the dungeon finders as they are partially responsible for the collapse of community in the games!
After failing numerous times on Hard Mode Garuda because of people having level 30 quest gear I am all for Gear Score being implemented into the Duty Finder.
You really only run into the players demanding ridiculous gear for Amdapor Keep speed runs. Ive seen people demand that the tank have a full set of the token gear you run Amdapor Keep to get.
I dont feel like spending my time carrying people through dungeons they are not geared for. I spent the time and effort to get that gear now its their turn. From my perspective the people complaining Gear Score are the people that will be locked out of content because they are too lazy or bad to do what it takes to get to that content.
So if he wants to play with his FC more it means he wants to be carried by them?
*shakes head*
If they had to work for their gear and he refuses to work for his then, yes, he'd be carried by them.
He may be the greatest player in the universe, but if can't be bothered to put in the effort then that's a shame.
This is why I think they should gate the content based on gear score but not make it visible to others.
It should be a tool to let you know know what you need to work on, not a way for others to evaluate you.
What would make it even better would be if it didn't even give you a score but specifically gave you suggestions based on your current gear. As in you choose the hardmode Ifrit encounter and hit an evaluate button, then it marks your boots, belt and a ring in a red outline and then when you mouse over them it suggests where you can go to get a replacement.
All die, so die well.
While at first gearscore / ilevel requirements seem to be a good idea, they're all too often abused, and used as a substitute for any sort of player class knowledge and / or skill. I'll take a smart player in level 5 gear over a dumbass in level 20 gear any day.
Not overly thrilled about this, but we'll see how it plays out.
None of you crying about gear scores and treadmills and blah blah blah I 100% guarantee haven't killed Garuda on hardmode or attempted Titan hardmode with a pug group...
You have absolutely no idea how outmatched individuals in AF gear who attempt these dungeons are and are destined to fail.
You guys get to level 45 and beat garuda easy and think you have an idea what SE is attempting to address but you just spew out ignorance...
That smart player dies by the first AOE mechanic in Garuda or Titan hardmode, reckoning or tumult, which is unavoidable.
Another person posting with 0 perspective about those of us who get these under geared individuals who get 1 shotted and waste everyone's time.
This is a quality of life feature most necessary for a game with true endgame content.
Well until they come up with some sort of player competency score, you're much better off choosing the player you don't know in level 20 gear over the player you don't know in level 5 gear.
But really, how smart is the smart guy in level 5 gear if he's still in level 5 gear when level 20 gear can be had by a dumbass.
It's true. I was able to obtain lvl 20 gear.
This is the way I would like to see it mostly. No one being able to see your GS, maybe not even you. A person knows their gear isn't up to par without having a number. I hated gear score in WoW. I remember getting kicked from a group for having the lowest score even though I was putting out the most dps, lol.
The only time I liked it was when there was a minimum to enter an instance. I would like to see that for here, just a nice hidden, you do not meet the requirements to queue for this. Now, if people just want to make their groups up, then no there shouldn't be any minimum because people know each other and what they're getting into. Maybe they want to carry 1 person and gear them up, but definitely not for randoms.
Some people don't like to play in pugs and prefer FC. And it is perfectly normal. I think you completely misunderstood what he said. He just don't want to pug any dungeons and i can understand his sentiments.
He didn't say anything about pugging. He said he didn't want to grind dungeons. The dungeons could be run via pug or a FC runs. Either way, he didn't want to bother with it because his gear will be replaced in a week.
That is what I read. I understood perfectly.
I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC
So yeah he don't want to be locked out of doing content with FC because he is afraid that would force him to grind for gear with pugs. I think what he said was pretty self explanatory but you somehow though he is asking to be carried.
/shrugs
You might want to read his post again, I think you're the one that can't comprehend what that poster was saying. He said he didn't want to be locked out from doing content with his FC because he doesnt want to grind for the equipment to be able to do that content to join his FC. Very simple deduction, he wants his FC to carry him because he's too lazy to get the required equipment to join them.
I will only have a problem if I'm locked out of doing content with my FC
because I refuse to grind dungeons all day just to buy/replace gear a week later.
So he want to run end game with his FC, but not run dungeons all day to earn the gear needed for it.
Why are you ignoring what he said? Just to win an internet argument? lol
/shrug.
Yes because everyone knows if you win an argument on internet you get popular with ladies.
However to be serious.... right now a lot of people are running end game content with their FC's and doing pretty well without the hassle of gear score. Yes gear matters but skills count a lot too. The gear score will put an end to it. maybe he is a good player and missing few stats but still doing great. But now since gear score check will tell him that he needs some more stats he will have to grind with pugs....maybe everyone in his FC is at a point where he has no one to run dungeons for tokens to get more gear.
So many reasons there, that is why i just found it a bit odd that you jumped to the conclusion that he wants to be carried. And the statement you underlined contradicts his first one if he is against grind because even if he with his FC he would still be grinding..there is only so far your FC can carry you. So in my opinion he has problem grinding with pugs but not his FC.
Atleast that is what i got from his post.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I think FF XIV really has two games. One is the 1-50 and the other is a gear treadmill at 50. It's up to you if you hop on the gear treadmill game, but that is the problem with most mmos, I think. Once you beat the main game you have to decide if you want to bother with the endgame or just move on and play another game.