I for one miss RNG. These token things are just stupid. Its like giving the losers a trophy for participation. "Aww poor Timmy didnt get his reward this time, lets switch to tokens so he can feel like he accomplished something." Sucks that FFXIV is doing the same. Oh well.
OP: Try playing the game for fun, not gear. I for one never gave a rats ass about getting all the gear immidiately and always seem to enjoy most MMO end games more than those like you seem to be. You dont want to run Garuda for the 50th time? Do something else. Nothing fun to do? Quit for a few months. Its really not that complicated.
I'll be happily crafting, gathering, socializing with other players in chat around me, taking my time with the main storyline, maybe a little fishing, summer event just started, level up my chocobo, explore some vistas, take some screenies, zerg some fates, find a cool outfit for RP...
you want to shout "gear grind!" from the rooftops? go ahead if it makes you feel better. I'll shout from the rooftops "who cares!" if you like playing that forum game.
Originally posted by Utinni The endgame of all MMO's is a gear grind. Even in open pvp games you are typically fighting over a resource that pertains to gear.
Not all. And FFXIV type of gear grind is the worst. Spend months to get what you need just to be rendered useless with new set of armor in an expac. Rine and repeat. The laziest and cheapest way to keep players subbed. Such an archaic model for end game.
Whats wrong with people liking this kind of endgame content?
Why do you need all the gear in game ASAP? What does it matter if they then release more content?
Im not getting this tbh, and it seems a mentality that should be foreign to mmorpg forums.
its not an archaic model, I would take it over a game that offered me all the games gear right off the bat....which seems to be what some want...then what?
Grind stuff for fun I take it? Quit and move on? What exactly do you want out of endgame for a mmorpg?
I can tell you already that quite a few games give you everything on a silver platter come endgame, and then offer you....well you can do those dungeons again for nothing, or pvp, you can queue for pvp till the sun burns out.
Why cant there be a game like this for people who want it without people trying to convince them that they infact should hate this type of endgame? Want no end game progression they already have 50 games like that, most don't play them very long and move on...
Next time try to read properly and understand what i was trying to say and i will reply to you. Currently the wall of text you wrote has nothing to do with what i wrote.
Not even once i said anything about handing gear to people on silver platter or wanting the gear in game asap. Nice strawmans though.
Actually, it does. Or rather, you implied a great deal of the points he addressed.
Complaining about spending months to get what you need most certainly implies that you're unhappy with the amount of time obtaining gear takes. Granted this isn't the same thing as saying outright that you want gear 'on a silver platter', but it's really not that much of a stretch to read it that fashion.
You call the model archaic, cheap, and lazy. Sorry, but it's clear as day that you feel there is something wrong with the model itself and (though it's a bit of a stretch here) the type of people who enjoy it. I will also point out that he asked what you would prefer in place of said model, yet instead of responding to his question (which most certainly was related to your post) you insult his reading comprehension & accuse him of making strawman arguments.
Perhaps next time you could clarify your statement a bit more instead of dismissing him outright. I'll agree that there are several assumptions made on his part, but hardly anything calling for insults and / or derision on your part.
I'll also add that if you think his post is a 'wall of text', then you and I have very different ideas of what that term means.
ANYWAY, to address the topic at hand: If the content to be repeated is interesting & fun, then I don't have a problem with grinding, or even repeatedly wiping for that matter. Some of my fondest memories of WoW involve myself & my guild mates wiping over, and over, and OVER again while trying to do the heroics contained within Auchindoun. Had an absolute blast doing it, and finally beating them really felt like an accomplishment. A shame all people seem to want to do today is watch a walkthrough on Youtube & rush through the content. There's so little feeling of accomplishment doing things that way.
Tokens are a far superior system to boss drops, IMO. It can be quite frustrating to run a boss a dozen times, only for the item you want / need to either not drop, or be 'won' by someone else (especially when it's for one of their alts, grrr). With a token based system that frustration is removed and the content can be enjoyed much more without that added source of stress. My dream system would use a token system for gear, but still have the boss drop items such as trophies, cosmetic apparel, rare home furnishings, etc. Best of both worlds.
You see the thing about FFXIV is that you can only get 300 tomes towards the top tier gear a week, so once you get that 300 (which isn't overly difficult) you can chill and do stuff that you enjoy rather than just grinding. I quite like this system because it does keep people from destroying all the content within a couple weeks and allows you to do things you enjoy rather than thinking that you have to do certain things every time you log in.
The OP is not an MMO "content locust", he is a power-leveller.
Locusts eat everything in sight, then move on when they've stripped the vegetation. In MMO terms, that would imply doing ALL the content between L1 and level-cap.
The OP and people like him do only the content that gives the most XP per hour. If jumping on the spot was the quickest way to level, they would do that for 72 hours straight. Their "high" is watching the level indicator increasing, the moment the counter stops changing, they hit a massive downer.
At that point they will find any excuse imaginable to leave the game. They will complain that it's too grindy, or there's nothing to do, or the stuff that is there is too boring, or they're forced to group to achieve anything, or the game has no group content, or whatever you can think of.
Power-leveller's are always the first to complain, and the loudest. It's their way of announcing that they've "beaten the game" and won the race to level-cap. Humor them, because that brief week or two is the only pleasure they ever get from playing a game, whereas many of us can play for months or years with great enjoyment.
The OP is not an MMO "content locust", he is a power-leveller.
Locusts eat everything in sight, then move on when they've stripped the vegetation. In MMO terms, that would imply doing ALL the content between L1 and level-cap.
The OP and people like him do only the content that gives the most XP per hour. If jumping on the spot was the quickest way to level, they would do that for 72 hours straight. Their "high" is watching the level indicator increasing, the moment the counter stops changing, they hit a massive downer.
At that point they will find any excuse imaginable to leave the game. They will complain that it's too grindy, or there's nothing to do, or the stuff that is there is too boring, or they're forced to group to achieve anything, or the game has no group content, or whatever you can think of.
Power-leveller's are always the first to complain, and the loudest. It's their way of announcing that they've "beaten the game" and won the race to level-cap. Humor them, because that brief week or two is the only pleasure they ever get from playing a game, whereas many of us can play for months or years with great enjoyment.
There is only 1, yes 1 dungeon in game that give really decent tokens and its Amdapor keep.
u do that same effin dungeon all time. in wow u had least 6 or more instance to farm tokens but in tis game only 1... its pathetic! 3 year remake tis game and not allow others 50 lvl dungeons drop tokens? devs have no clue.
Originally posted by Fendel84M My question is: Why do you need the gear you get from the tokens? Is there something you're going to be using it for, or is it just to have it?
You need it for harder content like later Relic quest fights (titan) and Bahamut's Coil if you are planning to progress that far, which is totally optional.
Also there are a number of dungeons that drop tokens, Castrum, Praetorium, Wanderer's Palace, all the hard primals drop some, and some of the other level 40 dungeons drop them but at a lesser rate. Keep is ran because it is the most efficient and gives the most mythology tombstones (which are capped weekly at 300).
Also bahamut's give tombstones, but people do not run it for tombstone farming because it is too hard if you aren't already gearing up elsewhere (also requires all primals to be beaten which most people struggle with without a good deal of darklight gear).
Can't say I'm particularly happy with this system. However, Amdapor Keep is an excellent training dungeon preparing people for harder stuff. So I think much like the lower level dungeons, this is all as designed to teach a majority of players how to play competently. I'd say it is working.
So if I have to sacrifice currency grind (my least favorite PvE experience) in order to have a better, more broader base endgame community then I'm all for it. I don't think anyone here can deny that endgame in most modern MMO's is a total headache because the lack of skill checks prior to it so you end up with a bunch of "noobs" who don't know how to play the game. This game fixes that issue.
Pretty much everything in FFXIV seems designed to be community oriented, and to improve the community. There definitely are a few anti-social ubernerds, especially in duty finder and some random pugs but hopefully they get lost quick. Learning to play FFXIV well is far easier than learning not to be a complete dick to others in an online space.
Originally posted by Arskaaa
There is only 1, yes 1 dungeon in game that give really decent tokens and its Amdapor keep.
u do that same effin dungeon all time. in wow u had least 6 or more instance to farm tokens but in tis game only 1... its pathetic! 3 year remake tis game and not allow others 50 lvl dungeons drop tokens? devs have no clue.
talk about 0.4 sec delay in titan hard fight...
combat response is slow.
That's all on you buddy. Excuses excuses. I have a Kiwi in my FC and several people playing from Hawaii to the Montreal servers and none of them have anything close to a .4 sec delay.
Well said Murugan! Some People, like the OP, are just complaining for the sake of complaining. It´s getting tiresome.
They are the typical crowd that races to the cap and then want everything as fast as possible, so they can complain there is no more content and move on to the Next game! Typical Instant gratification crowd!
The OP is not an MMO "content locust", he is a power-leveller.
Locusts eat everything in sight, then move on when they've stripped the vegetation. In MMO terms, that would imply doing ALL the content between L1 and level-cap.
The OP and people like him do only the content that gives the most XP per hour. If jumping on the spot was the quickest way to level, they would do that for 72 hours straight. Their "high" is watching the level indicator increasing, the moment the counter stops changing, they hit a massive downer.
At that point they will find any excuse imaginable to leave the game. They will complain that it's too grindy, or there's nothing to do, or the stuff that is there is too boring, or they're forced to group to achieve anything, or the game has no group content, or whatever you can think of.
Power-leveller's are always the first to complain, and the loudest. It's their way of announcing that they've "beaten the game" and won the race to level-cap. Humor them, because that brief week or two is the only pleasure they ever get from playing a game, whereas many of us can play for months or years with great enjoyment.
Originally posted by Utinni The endgame of all MMO's is a gear grind. Even in open pvp games you are typically fighting over a resource that pertains to gear.
WRONG. What about DAOC? all means every game. I just named one that isn't a gear grind. What about Darkfall? Well anyways the list goes on to prove that not all MMO's endgame is a gear grind.
somebody grew up playing WoW
Darkfall is fun to exploit and irritate it's "community", otherwise boring.
DAoC was boring.
UO was ok.
Realm was ok.
The end game of all games is either grinding something, or uninstalling it.
Originally posted by Utinni The endgame of all MMO's is a gear grind. Even in open pvp games you are typically fighting over a resource that pertains to gear.
Not all. And FFXIV type of gear grind is the worst. Spend months to get what you need just to be rendered useless with new set of armor in an expac. Rine and repeat. The laziest and cheapest way to keep players subbed. Such an archaic model for end game.
Whats wrong with people liking this kind of endgame content?
Why do you need all the gear in game ASAP? What does it matter if they then release more content?
Im not getting this tbh, and it seems a mentality that should be foreign to mmorpg forums.
its not an archaic model, I would take it over a game that offered me all the games gear right off the bat....which seems to be what some want...then what?
Grind stuff for fun I take it? Quit and move on? What exactly do you want out of endgame for a mmorpg?
I can tell you already that quite a few games give you everything on a silver platter come endgame, and then offer you....well you can do those dungeons again for nothing, or pvp, you can queue for pvp till the sun burns out.
Why cant there be a game like this for people who want it without people trying to convince them that they infact should hate this type of endgame? Want no end game progression they already have 50 games like that, most don't play them very long and move on...
Next time try to read properly and understand what i was trying to say and i will reply to you. Currently the wall of text you wrote has nothing to do with what i wrote.
Not even once i said anything about handing gear to people on silver platter or wanting the gear in game asap. Nice strawmans though.
Actually, it does. Or rather, you implied a great deal of the points he addressed.
Complaining about spending months to get what you need most certainly implies that you're unhappy with the amount of time obtaining gear takes. Granted this isn't the same thing as saying outright that you want gear 'on a silver platter', but it's really not that much of a stretch to read it that fashion.
Jesus.. i wasn't complaining about the amount if time it takes to get the gear but how this over all design works. Players take months to get their gear setsonly to be replaced by gear with better stats. This is like an endless grind akin to hamster on a wheel. You keep chasing these stats months after months to be replaced and completely rendered useless by better stats. This is the kind of raiding WOW brought to MMO genre and Yoshida is just copy pasting it in FFXIV.
You call the model archaic, cheap, and lazy. Sorry, but it's clear as day that you feel there is something wrong with the model itself and (though it's a bit of a stretch here) the type of people who enjoy it. I will also point out that he asked what you would prefer in place of said model, yet instead of responding to his question (which most certainly was related to your post) you insult his reading comprehension & accuse him of making strawman arguments.
Yes i call it an archaic model because it was made famous by WOW which is no 10 years old atleast? when so many MMOS are trying to branch out and incorporate a lot more end game activities all you are left with is raid or die in FFXIV. Not everyone is into crafting or gathering. Some people only enjoy combat and they have no other option than grinding dungeons at lvl 50. End game is very weak and archiac at best in its design. And then people wonder why there is such a sharp decline in population in P2P MMOS after the first month? i get such a deja vu feeling from FFXIV's end game and i see it going the same route in population decline as other P2P MMOS in past once free month is over. It is lazy design. Just assemble together couple of new dungeons every couple of months, add armors with better stats and keep people chasing that cheese.
Perhaps next time you could clarify your statement a bit more instead of dismissing him outright. I'll agree that there are several assumptions made on his part, but hardly anything calling for insults and / or derision on your part.
I hope i cleared what i was trying to say with my reply.
I'll also add that if you think his post is a 'wall of text', then you and I have very different ideas of what that term means.
Originally posted by Utinni The endgame of all MMO's is a gear grind. Even in open pvp games you are typically fighting over a resource that pertains to gear.
You've simply been trained to accept it. Wow clones end with gear grinds. There shouldn't even BE a max level that you could hit, a la Asheron's Call(at least not for many years).
Perhaps its worth noting that AF2 gear is limited by ToMs of which are capped at 300 per week. One full AK run nets you 40 ToMs, so your minimally efficient run total is 8 per week.
That's the best gear and to stay at the top of the curve thats 8 dungeon runs a week. That's a grind?
Originally posted by Utinni The endgame of all MMO's is a gear grind. Even in open pvp games you are typically fighting over a resource that pertains to gear.
Not all. And FFXIV type of gear grind is the worst. Spend months to get what you need just to be rendered useless with new set of armor in an expac. Rine and repeat. The laziest and cheapest way to keep players subbed. Such an archaic model for end game.
Whats wrong with people liking this kind of endgame content?
Why do you need all the gear in game ASAP? What does it matter if they then release more content?
Im not getting this tbh, and it seems a mentality that should be foreign to mmorpg forums.
its not an archaic model, I would take it over a game that offered me all the games gear right off the bat....which seems to be what some want...then what?
Grind stuff for fun I take it? Quit and move on? What exactly do you want out of endgame for a mmorpg?
I can tell you already that quite a few games give you everything on a silver platter come endgame, and then offer you....well you can do those dungeons again for nothing, or pvp, you can queue for pvp till the sun burns out.
Why cant there be a game like this for people who want it without people trying to convince them that they infact should hate this type of endgame? Want no end game progression they already have 50 games like that, most don't play them very long and move on...
Next time try to read properly and understand what i was trying to say and i will reply to you. Currently the wall of text you wrote has nothing to do with what i wrote.
Not even once i said anything about handing gear to people on silver platter or wanting the gear in game asap. Nice strawmans though.
Actually, it does. Or rather, you implied a great deal of the points he addressed.
Complaining about spending months to get what you need most certainly implies that you're unhappy with the amount of time obtaining gear takes. Granted this isn't the same thing as saying outright that you want gear 'on a silver platter', but it's really not that much of a stretch to read it that fashion.
Jesus.. i wasn't complaining about the amount if time it takes to get the gear but how this over all design works. Players take months to get their gear setsonly to be replaced by gear with better stats. This is like an endless grind akin to hamster on a wheel. You keep chasing these stats months after months to be replaced and completely rendered useless by better stats. This is the kind of raiding WOW brought to MMO genre and Yoshida is just copy pasting it in FFXIV.
You call the model archaic, cheap, and lazy. Sorry, but it's clear as day that you feel there is something wrong with the model itself and (though it's a bit of a stretch here) the type of people who enjoy it. I will also point out that he asked what you would prefer in place of said model, yet instead of responding to his question (which most certainly was related to your post) you insult his reading comprehension & accuse him of making strawman arguments.
Yes i call it an archaic model because it was made famous by WOW which is no 10 years old atleast? when so many MMOS are trying to branch out and incorporate a lot more end game activities all you are left with is raid or die in FFXIV. Not everyone is into crafting or gathering. Some people only enjoy combat and they have no other option than grinding dungeons at lvl 50. End game is very weak and archiac at best in its design. And then people wonder why there is such a sharp decline in population in P2P MMOS after the first month? i get such a deja vu feeling from FFXIV's end game and i see it going the same route in population decline as other P2P MMOS in past once free month is over. It is lazy design. Just assemble together couple of new dungeons every couple of months, add armors with better stats and keep people chasing that cheese.
Perhaps next time you could clarify your statement a bit more instead of dismissing him outright. I'll agree that there are several assumptions made on his part, but hardly anything calling for insults and / or derision on your part.
I hope i cleared what i was trying to say with my reply.
I'll also add that if you think his post is a 'wall of text', then you and I have very different ideas of what that term means.
You're missing a lot of the point I think. I've had a great deal of enjoyment playing the game and leveling and as much as I dislike token farming end-games, the point of this game is to do dungeons and group with people. If you dislike that, or think it is archaic, or weak, either design your own MMO or stop playing them entirely. It's possible you are playing the wrong genre, there a a massive amount of non-grindy games that don't subject you to grouping end-game farming that you don't seem to want to be a part of.
Currently playing - FF14ARR Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
You're missing a lot of the point I think. I've had a great deal of enjoyment playing the game and leveling and as much as I dislike token farming end-games, the point of this game is to do dungeons and group with people. If you dislike that, or think it is archaic, or weak, either design your own MMO or stop playing them entirely. It's possible you are playing the wrong genre, there a a massive amount of non-grindy games that don't subject you to grouping end-game farming that you don't seem to want to be a part of.
I knew sooner or later someone will come up with 'make your own MMO or stop them playing entirely' as if all MMOS are still following this old WOW gear treadmill formula. And what is even more ironic is that you are telling me that i am a missing a lot of points. And yes i have stopped playing FFXIV couple of days ago once i realised what i am faced with at 50 since i have no interest in crafting or gathering classes. I was really hoping there will be some variety at end game. But i won't deny that leveling experince was really best part of it all.
Yes MMOs have end game grinding for gear and stats but a lot of these same MMOS do not have 'just' gear grinding for end game.
A good MMO is one which gives players choices and not force them just to raid or quit. In my case i had no choice but to 'quit'. Deja Vu from Rift (even though Rift later on realised this and branched out itself in lot of various end game activities) and SWTOR? i certainly had one. Good luck to SE in keeping 300,000 concurrent players after free month is over.
Originally posted by Kayo45 I for one miss RNG. These token things are just stupid. Its like giving the losers a trophy for participation. "Aww poor Timmy didnt get his reward this time, lets switch to tokens so he can feel like he accomplished something." Sucks that FFXIV is doing the same. Oh well.
OP: Try playing the game for fun, not gear. I for one never gave a rats ass about getting all the gear immidiately and always seem to enjoy most MMO end games more than those like you seem to be. You dont want to run Garuda for the 50th time? Do something else. Nothing fun to do? Quit for a few months. Its really not that complicated.
I do not miss RNG. After AoC and Ranger gear dropping ever night for 3 weeks (pugging Rangers because ours where fully geared) i'll never miss it. Then again, a good medium would be both dropping. Gear and then like tokens at same time. So that you aren't 100% relying on the RNG get your stuff. (I know AoC introduced this at some point)
What I really find amazing is the patience of so many posters in their attempts to try to explain to these content locusts, who haven't the slightest concept of what an MMORPG is supposed to deliver, or how one is to be played, the finer points of how to successfully play, and enjoy, an MMORPG. All these content locusts do is rush to end game and then once there, they do nothing but complain. Their complaints are varied but their more popular complaints range from "I'm max level, so what do I do now?" to " I'm bored there is nothing to do," and of course the one involved in this thread, "Yes there is something to do but it's too hard or its grindy." It's always some wishy-washy complaint that has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with the fact that they haven't the slightest idea of what playing in an MMORPG entails. You simply can not satisfy these people. Quit trying to convince them to stay. Let them go. I guarantee you the community will be better off for it.
Here's a clue for the clueless: An MMORPG is about community. It is about making friends and forming bonds. For the most, you will make friends and form bonds in your journey to end game. Once there, this so called gear grind is simply the mechanism that will encourage and enable you to team and enjoy those friendships and strong bonds. It is not about you, and what you want, or how fast you can get it. It is all a social exercise. That is the joy of MMORPGs.
What I really find amazing is how people like you are trying to tell others how they are playing a game the wrong way. There is no wrong way to play an MMO if the guy enjoys rushing to cap well there's nothing you can say about it, he enjoys that play style and you don't.... end of story.
I personally think that the part where you go on about community, making friends and forming bonds is B.S. Am I telling you that you have no idea how to play the game ? No, that's how you enjoy the game and that's fine with me.
And to come back to O.P, he is not saying i'm lvl cap now what? He is saying that he's level cap, and that so far his experience with what is available to do has not been a good one, because the dungeons are apparantly too hard, people are not good enough / don't have enough gear to beat the starter instance. So the only choice he has if he wants to make any kind of progress is to run that starter instance back to back, since trying to do anything pass that starter instance = wipe / fail / waste of time.
If the instance are really that hard, it doesn't matter if he hit level cap in a day or in 6 months, the instance will be just as hard and he will hit the same wall. So your entire argument about hitting lvl cap too fast and complaining is irrelevant.
Personally, hard instance are a good thing for me, so really looking forward to trying them out when i'm 50 tonight or tomorrow.
Just an fyi post for those wondering what happens after 50:
You grind a starter dungeon doing speed runs for 50 tokens a pop. the starter dungeon can take anywhere from 20 minutes to 1 hour/90 minutes (if you even finish it) depending on if people aggro mobs while the tank is speed running and gathering all the mobs to die in the boss room.
Gear costs like 375 - 1325 tokens per piece, in the end, it'll cost like 3500 tokens for a full set of armor, then 375 for each jewelry piece. You can use the gear that drops in dungeons, its like level 55, but the starter token gear is 70 I think.
You can do other things, like the 2nd dungeon, ifrit or garuda and other things BUT if you use dungeon finder, chances are the group you get won't be geared well enough for anything but the starter dungeon. I mean it really takes just one weak player to take down a 4 or 8 man pug.
Lots of players blow their LB at the wrong time, or get aoe'd and it wipes the group, and people rage quit. So as of right now a lot of players aren't geared or learned enough to beat anything but the starter dungeon.
So, unless you have a circle of 4-8 friends or a guild that is 50, you will be grinding the starter dungeon over and over for like 120+ plus times to get the tokens you need.
Good luck!
EDIT: yes ifrit and garuda can be beat with a PUG but if you are trying to farm tokens with PUGS, those harder dungeons are a bad idea right now, and for efficiencies sake you will get too many wipes, and fail and possibly not get any tokens, vs just grinding the starter dungeon.
I see your point but I think it's past time we had a new video game where you can't beat all the dungeons in the game with any random group of 4 people. I would agree that there should be more than one easy dungeon and that's a content depth issue but at the high end there should be places that PUG's don't do well and I'm happy to see that.
Comments
OP: Try playing the game for fun, not gear. I for one never gave a rats ass about getting all the gear immidiately and always seem to enjoy most MMO end games more than those like you seem to be. You dont want to run Garuda for the 50th time? Do something else. Nothing fun to do? Quit for a few months. Its really not that complicated.
I'll be happily crafting, gathering, socializing with other players in chat around me, taking my time with the main storyline, maybe a little fishing, summer event just started, level up my chocobo, explore some vistas, take some screenies, zerg some fates, find a cool outfit for RP...
you want to shout "gear grind!" from the rooftops? go ahead if it makes you feel better. I'll shout from the rooftops "who cares!" if you like playing that forum game.
Anyway OP, good luck in your next mmo endeavor.
Here's another thread, about another dude bitching about something he/she doesn't like in another game.
Who cares. Adds nor subtracts anything from my own perception of the game.
Moving on.
Actually, it does. Or rather, you implied a great deal of the points he addressed.
Complaining about spending months to get what you need most certainly implies that you're unhappy with the amount of time obtaining gear takes. Granted this isn't the same thing as saying outright that you want gear 'on a silver platter', but it's really not that much of a stretch to read it that fashion.
You call the model archaic, cheap, and lazy. Sorry, but it's clear as day that you feel there is something wrong with the model itself and (though it's a bit of a stretch here) the type of people who enjoy it. I will also point out that he asked what you would prefer in place of said model, yet instead of responding to his question (which most certainly was related to your post) you insult his reading comprehension & accuse him of making strawman arguments.
Perhaps next time you could clarify your statement a bit more instead of dismissing him outright. I'll agree that there are several assumptions made on his part, but hardly anything calling for insults and / or derision on your part.
I'll also add that if you think his post is a 'wall of text', then you and I have very different ideas of what that term means.
ANYWAY, to address the topic at hand: If the content to be repeated is interesting & fun, then I don't have a problem with grinding, or even repeatedly wiping for that matter. Some of my fondest memories of WoW involve myself & my guild mates wiping over, and over, and OVER again while trying to do the heroics contained within Auchindoun. Had an absolute blast doing it, and finally beating them really felt like an accomplishment. A shame all people seem to want to do today is watch a walkthrough on Youtube & rush through the content. There's so little feeling of accomplishment doing things that way.
Tokens are a far superior system to boss drops, IMO. It can be quite frustrating to run a boss a dozen times, only for the item you want / need to either not drop, or be 'won' by someone else (especially when it's for one of their alts, grrr). With a token based system that frustration is removed and the content can be enjoyed much more without that added source of stress. My dream system would use a token system for gear, but still have the boss drop items such as trophies, cosmetic apparel, rare home furnishings, etc. Best of both worlds.
Safehouse Gaming up and running at: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnKd0Hk85CQ_N04Ae7v5zZg
The OP is not an MMO "content locust", he is a power-leveller.
Locusts eat everything in sight, then move on when they've stripped the vegetation. In MMO terms, that would imply doing ALL the content between L1 and level-cap.
The OP and people like him do only the content that gives the most XP per hour. If jumping on the spot was the quickest way to level, they would do that for 72 hours straight. Their "high" is watching the level indicator increasing, the moment the counter stops changing, they hit a massive downer.
At that point they will find any excuse imaginable to leave the game. They will complain that it's too grindy, or there's nothing to do, or the stuff that is there is too boring, or they're forced to group to achieve anything, or the game has no group content, or whatever you can think of.
Power-leveller's are always the first to complain, and the loudest. It's their way of announcing that they've "beaten the game" and won the race to level-cap. Humor them, because that brief week or two is the only pleasure they ever get from playing a game, whereas many of us can play for months or years with great enjoyment.
This, so much this.
There is only 1, yes 1 dungeon in game that give really decent tokens and its Amdapor keep.
u do that same effin dungeon all time. in wow u had least 6 or more instance to farm tokens but in tis game only 1... its pathetic! 3 year remake tis game and not allow others 50 lvl dungeons drop tokens? devs have no clue.
talk about 0.4 sec delay in titan hard fight...
combat response is slow.
You need it for harder content like later Relic quest fights (titan) and Bahamut's Coil if you are planning to progress that far, which is totally optional.
Also there are a number of dungeons that drop tokens, Castrum, Praetorium, Wanderer's Palace, all the hard primals drop some, and some of the other level 40 dungeons drop them but at a lesser rate. Keep is ran because it is the most efficient and gives the most mythology tombstones (which are capped weekly at 300).
Also bahamut's give tombstones, but people do not run it for tombstone farming because it is too hard if you aren't already gearing up elsewhere (also requires all primals to be beaten which most people struggle with without a good deal of darklight gear).
Can't say I'm particularly happy with this system. However, Amdapor Keep is an excellent training dungeon preparing people for harder stuff. So I think much like the lower level dungeons, this is all as designed to teach a majority of players how to play competently. I'd say it is working.
So if I have to sacrifice currency grind (my least favorite PvE experience) in order to have a better, more broader base endgame community then I'm all for it. I don't think anyone here can deny that endgame in most modern MMO's is a total headache because the lack of skill checks prior to it so you end up with a bunch of "noobs" who don't know how to play the game. This game fixes that issue.
Pretty much everything in FFXIV seems designed to be community oriented, and to improve the community. There definitely are a few anti-social ubernerds, especially in duty finder and some random pugs but hopefully they get lost quick. Learning to play FFXIV well is far easier than learning not to be a complete dick to others in an online space.
That's all on you buddy. Excuses excuses. I have a Kiwi in my FC and several people playing from Hawaii to the Montreal servers and none of them have anything close to a .4 sec delay.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
Well said Murugan! Some People, like the OP, are just complaining for the sake of complaining. It´s getting tiresome.
They are the typical crowd that races to the cap and then want everything as fast as possible, so they can complain there is no more content and move on to the Next game! Typical Instant gratification crowd!
Here is a Nice topic With a Complete endgame guide: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/81150-Endgame-Guide-(WIP)
+1
Darkfall is fun to exploit and irritate it's "community", otherwise boring.
DAoC was boring.
UO was ok.
Realm was ok.
The end game of all games is either grinding something, or uninstalling it.
Someone is a vapid cunt.
Well it's not worth a subscription then if that's the case.
You've simply been trained to accept it. Wow clones end with gear grinds. There shouldn't even BE a max level that you could hit, a la Asheron's Call(at least not for many years).
Perhaps its worth noting that AF2 gear is limited by ToMs of which are capped at 300 per week. One full AK run nets you 40 ToMs, so your minimally efficient run total is 8 per week.
That's the best gear and to stay at the top of the curve thats 8 dungeon runs a week. That's a grind?
You're missing a lot of the point I think. I've had a great deal of enjoyment playing the game and leveling and as much as I dislike token farming end-games, the point of this game is to do dungeons and group with people. If you dislike that, or think it is archaic, or weak, either design your own MMO or stop playing them entirely. It's possible you are playing the wrong genre, there a a massive amount of non-grindy games that don't subject you to grouping end-game farming that you don't seem to want to be a part of.
Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.
I knew sooner or later someone will come up with 'make your own MMO or stop them playing entirely' as if all MMOS are still following this old WOW gear treadmill formula. And what is even more ironic is that you are telling me that i am a missing a lot of points. And yes i have stopped playing FFXIV couple of days ago once i realised what i am faced with at 50 since i have no interest in crafting or gathering classes. I was really hoping there will be some variety at end game. But i won't deny that leveling experince was really best part of it all.
Yes MMOs have end game grinding for gear and stats but a lot of these same MMOS do not have 'just' gear grinding for end game.
A good MMO is one which gives players choices and not force them just to raid or quit. In my case i had no choice but to 'quit'. Deja Vu from Rift (even though Rift later on realised this and branched out itself in lot of various end game activities) and SWTOR? i certainly had one. Good luck to SE in keeping 300,000 concurrent players after free month is over.
I do not miss RNG. After AoC and Ranger gear dropping ever night for 3 weeks (pugging Rangers because ours where fully geared) i'll never miss it. Then again, a good medium would be both dropping. Gear and then like tokens at same time. So that you aren't 100% relying on the RNG get your stuff. (I know AoC introduced this at some point)
What I really find amazing is how people like you are trying to tell others how they are playing a game the wrong way. There is no wrong way to play an MMO if the guy enjoys rushing to cap well there's nothing you can say about it, he enjoys that play style and you don't.... end of story.
I personally think that the part where you go on about community, making friends and forming bonds is B.S. Am I telling you that you have no idea how to play the game ? No, that's how you enjoy the game and that's fine with me.
And to come back to O.P, he is not saying i'm lvl cap now what? He is saying that he's level cap, and that so far his experience with what is available to do has not been a good one, because the dungeons are apparantly too hard, people are not good enough / don't have enough gear to beat the starter instance. So the only choice he has if he wants to make any kind of progress is to run that starter instance back to back, since trying to do anything pass that starter instance = wipe / fail / waste of time.
If the instance are really that hard, it doesn't matter if he hit level cap in a day or in 6 months, the instance will be just as hard and he will hit the same wall. So your entire argument about hitting lvl cap too fast and complaining is irrelevant.
Personally, hard instance are a good thing for me, so really looking forward to trying them out when i'm 50 tonight or tomorrow.
I see your point but I think it's past time we had a new video game where you can't beat all the dungeons in the game with any random group of 4 people. I would agree that there should be more than one easy dungeon and that's a content depth issue but at the high end there should be places that PUG's don't do well and I'm happy to see that.