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how bad is the combat?

124

Comments

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon

    I am surprised people neglect to mention how 'mushy' combat is. It is not 'crisp' in the slightest.

    Leaving aside the pacing which is obviously a design decision, there is stuff that clearly is not. For example I can start moving 2/3 rds to 3/4 qtrs through the cast bar and not interrupt the skill. Really the client should cancel that immediately and inform the server. I think it is a combination of net code, server load and general poor implementation. Where it can be particularly frustrating is moving out of boss AoEs. It is common for players to blame lag, bad computer, their ISP, or even their cat it is quite real. You can be well outside an AoE (as far as it appears on screen) and still get hit.

    I play in the EU but I have not had this issue quite so bad playing on US servers in other games. (why are the EU servers located in N America btw?). I believe devs use various clever techniques to make things appear instantaneous at the client. I think the 'system' suffers from jitter end to end (which is essentially variance in lag). This is much harder to compensate for.

    The pace of combat is OK the lack of 'crispness' and instant feedback is not so good.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alamareth
    Originally posted by benit59
    People talk about this game having slow combat and being easy. Yet, Titan PUG'ers keep wiping from not dodging knockback attack. GG.

    Truest post in the thread.

    That's partly because when it is telegraphed is not consistent or timely. See previous post.

  • khameleonkhameleon Miami, FLPosts: 372Member

    It's "old school" MMORPG combat. It is done well for what it is and it is fun to me. A lot of cool spells, combos and you can mix in spells, buffs, etc from many classes(the ones you have trained in) so it is is pretty complex too.

    I like action combat too like in ESO, Neverwinter, TERA, but that is a different kind of mmorpg combat all together so you can't compare it.

    The enemies have a good amount of special moves where you have to move out of the way before their special moves go off(red cone or AOE, etc show on screen before it goes off).  

    You can use your chocobo in battle, that adds to the fun. Arcanist gets pets and so do the 2 jobs that come from it.

    In party, it is the trinity where you need a tank, healers and DPS. It all works well and there is a limit break system where a bar fills up over time, then anybody in the party can use limit break(special powerful spell).

    There are lots of huge monsters in this game, even regular mobs look amazing, that also adds to the fun. 

    Overall I'd give combat 7/10. Its a little slow, but its designed to be this way.

     

    GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!

  • XatshXatsh Columbia, TNPosts: 124Member Uncommon

    Combat starts off horrible, it is slow and boring there is simply no way to get around it. It is caused by very little skill speed gear and very little attacks and no cross class abilities.

    This is the only fault of the combat system it starts bad.

    When you are at endgame you will be doing an action around 1 per second. Your GCD will be around 2.20 - 2.4 depending on the class. But you will have access to many non-gcd abilities and attacks at that point which you cycle in. You honestly cannot attack faster then that, because your attacks are positional. (Side,Back,Front) You are always moving.

    Pld,Mnk,Drg,Blm at endgame you will rarely not be pressing a button of somekind. If you wait for the cooldown your dps will be a joke or you will never hold hate as a tank. The only class that still feels slow to me at endgame is War.

    IF you want a button spammer game or an action mmo then yes this game will not be for you. It is neither of them. But honestly at endgame, the battle system works extremly well for how the game is designed. The only people you will see complain about the battle system are lower level players for the most part or people who want an action mmo. (lower level as pre-40)

    I would give the battle system a 7/10, not higher because it is horrible at low levels. Which is sorta bad design because it will turn ppl off before they get to the point it is actully good.

    For someone who does not want an action mmo and wants a game that puts more emphasis on each action... then the battle system in this game later in the game is extremly good.

    If you do want a more action style mmo, why are you playing XIV:Arr. Look to wildstar or maby Teso. Or just play GW2 or Tera.

    XIV is not bad design it is just a different design then what mainstream is focusing on atm.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,444Member Uncommon

    It is not bad at all it just is not as in depth as say FFXI which imo has the most depth of any combat system,matter of of fact, i would bet on it.

    The only real issue that holds back FFXIV dmg is the game catered to too much soloing.So because of that you are not going to have the really high spike damage or any really powerful fun spells like ffix had such as kiting with Gravity.

    IDK who said combat is slow but lol,it is not slow at all,unless you think Fun combat is 1-2 hits dead,might as well not even have a hot bar then,just 1-2 buttons that say dead.

    FFXI would be considered the slow version of combat.

    Even so it doesn't matter because SLOW combat is the way to go if you want to create an intuitive and interacting structure.Why have all those abilities if there is no time to use them.It would make as much sense as games that level too fast which does not allow anyone to actually enjoy a level or the gear for very long,making the whole game a lame speed fest towards end game.

    The whole purpose to gaming is to have some fun,speed is not important,at least that is the excuse everyone keeps telling me when using other games as an excuse.I see VERY few people actually trying to enjoy a developer's creation,instead i see this or that is not fast enough,travel is too slow,combat too slow,leveling too slow,i swear why are people playing these games,they are obviously not out to have any fun,just some ego trip to prove how fast they can level or something.


    Samoan Diamond

  • Synns77Synns77 StaffsPosts: 124Member
    The combat is ok, nothing great but not terrible either I personally prefer this style of combat to action type combat (tera), the real big complaint though at the minute is the lag issues, get a warning that an attack is coming, move totally out the way and still get hit. Not sure if this is because of the servers being so far from the Uk or whether its just bad design.
  • djazzydjazzy louisville, COPosts: 3,578Member

    Only played the beta but it's pretty standard mmorpg combat with a long GCD. It was a bit too slow for my taste but it's not the worst combat I've played. The tab targeting could use some work though.

    I enjoyed TSW's combat but I think the major problem there is that the feedback (sounds and feeling of impact) is lacking. Therefore a lot of people don't like the combat there.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,745Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Krematory
    [mod edit]. I've played both, and I enjoy FFXIV combat a lot more. Sure, it's a bit simple and lacking during the first few levels, but it becomes more complex and tactical as you level your classes. In fact, it is easily one of my top 3 combat systems I have ever played. And I've played a lot...

     The problem is getting past those first few levels of killing squirrels with poor combat....Dont they realize that first impressions are very important in a MMO?

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,202Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Synns77
    The combat is ok, nothing great but not terrible either I personally prefer this style of combat to action type combat (tera), the real big complaint though at the minute is the lag issues, get a warning that an attack is coming, move totally out the way and still get hit. Not sure if this is because of the servers being so far from the Uk or whether its just bad design.

    I was beginning to think I was the only one that was finding that frustrating. People where up in arms with SWTOR for far less, WAR too I seem to remember. Seemd that FFXIV has been given a pass for now. One thing WoW gets right (maybe over time) is crispy combat. GW2's animation blending is pretty well done too (though if you don't like the actiony style that might pass you by).

  • echolynfanecholynfan Lancaster, PAPosts: 681Member
    Originally posted by sumdumguy1
    Originally posted by stayontarget

    I've noticed a lot of people saying "The global cooldown actually makes you "think" before just randomly hitting buttons".

     

     

     

    What exactly are you thinking about?  is it so complicated that you need time to think about your next move.  And another question,  some say that the combat speeds up later on in the game.  So does that mean you need less time to think about it the higher you level up?

     

    So many conflicting replies in this thread.

    My thoughts exactly, no need to repeat what has already been well said.

    Probably because some of us not yet got to 50 :)

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Gorilla
    Originally posted by Synns77
    The combat is ok, nothing great but not terrible either I personally prefer this style of combat to action type combat (tera), the real big complaint though at the minute is the lag issues, get a warning that an attack is coming, move totally out the way and still get hit. Not sure if this is because of the servers being so far from the Uk or whether its just bad design.

    I was beginning to think I was the only one that was finding that frustrating. People where up in arms with SWTOR for far less, WAR too I seem to remember. Seemd that FFXIV has been given a pass for now. One thing WoW gets right (maybe over time) is crispy combat. GW2's animation blending is pretty well done too (though if you don't like the actiony style that might pass you by).

     

    This is a serious problem for me too - supposedly move far out of the way, and still get hit.  The hit system is very sloppy, and seems to be plagued with lag problems.

    Other than that, it's a very bland combat system, pretty much the same MMO combat we've seen for a decade.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • LizardEgyptLizardEgypt Yarmouth, NSPosts: 337Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    It is not bad at all it just is not as in depth as say FFXI which imo has the most depth of any combat system,matter of of fact, i would bet on it.

    The only real issue that holds back FFXIV dmg is the game catered to too much soloing.So because of that you are not going to have the really high spike damage or any really powerful fun spells like ffix had such as kiting with Gravity.

    IDK who said combat is slow but lol,it is not slow at all,unless you think Fun combat is 1-2 hits dead,might as well not even have a hot bar then,just 1-2 buttons that say dead.

    FFXI would be considered the slow version of combat.

    Even so it doesn't matter because SLOW combat is the way to go if you want to create an intuitive and interacting structure.Why have all those abilities if there is no time to use them.It would make as much sense as games that level too fast which does not allow anyone to actually enjoy a level or the gear for very long,making the whole game a lame speed fest towards end game.

    The whole purpose to gaming is to have some fun,speed is not important,at least that is the excuse everyone keeps telling me when using other games as an excuse.I see VERY few people actually trying to enjoy a developer's creation,instead i see this or that is not fast enough,travel is too slow,combat too slow,leveling too slow,i swear why are people playing these games,they are obviously not out to have any fun,just some ego trip to prove how fast they can level or something.

    I wish I had played XI. I heard nothing but great things from those who did. 

    Currently playing - FF14ARR
    Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

  • TorcipTorcip Sterling Heights, MIPosts: 669Member
    Originally posted by Rohn
    Originally posted by Gorilla
    Originally posted by Synns77
    The combat is ok, nothing great but not terrible either I personally prefer this style of combat to action type combat (tera), the real big complaint though at the minute is the lag issues, get a warning that an attack is coming, move totally out the way and still get hit. Not sure if this is because of the servers being so far from the Uk or whether its just bad design.

    I was beginning to think I was the only one that was finding that frustrating. People where up in arms with SWTOR for far less, WAR too I seem to remember. Seemd that FFXIV has been given a pass for now. One thing WoW gets right (maybe over time) is crispy combat. GW2's animation blending is pretty well done too (though if you don't like the actiony style that might pass you by).

     

    This is a serious problem for me too - supposedly move far out of the way, and still get hit.  The hit system is very sloppy, and seems to be plagued with lag problems.

    Other than that, it's a very bland combat system, pretty much the same MMO combat we've seen for a decade.

    What I've noticed is that it's almost never lag, it's just that the attack registers a connect before the animation starts, not when visually it would make since for the attack to hit.  If your in the red area before it dissappears, then even if you're way out of the way before he attack connects visually then it is still going to hit you. That's what I've noticed anyways.

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by Torcip
    Originally posted by Rohn
    Originally posted by Gorilla
    Originally posted by Synns77
    The combat is ok, nothing great but not terrible either I personally prefer this style of combat to action type combat (tera), the real big complaint though at the minute is the lag issues, get a warning that an attack is coming, move totally out the way and still get hit. Not sure if this is because of the servers being so far from the Uk or whether its just bad design.

    I was beginning to think I was the only one that was finding that frustrating. People where up in arms with SWTOR for far less, WAR too I seem to remember. Seemd that FFXIV has been given a pass for now. One thing WoW gets right (maybe over time) is crispy combat. GW2's animation blending is pretty well done too (though if you don't like the actiony style that might pass you by).

     

    This is a serious problem for me too - supposedly move far out of the way, and still get hit.  The hit system is very sloppy, and seems to be plagued with lag problems.

    Other than that, it's a very bland combat system, pretty much the same MMO combat we've seen for a decade.

    What I've noticed is that it's almost never lag, it's just that the attack registers a connect before the animation starts, not when visually it would make since for the attack to hit.  If your in the red area before it dissappears, then even if you're way out of the way before he attack connects visually then it is still going to hit you. That's what I've noticed anyways.

    This is correct.  The check for position happens before the animation starts.  If you were unable to get out of the red zone prior to it disappearing you will be hit regardless of position.  Lag contributes to this appearing off, but I've rarely had issues with it.

    The jitter some people refer to is probably with the skills that give no red zone warning.  However, the same principle applies.  If you get caught, you will be hit after/during the animation.  This is how people end up dead behind pillars during the Garuda fight.

  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torcip
    Originally posted by Rohn
    Originally posted by Gorilla
    Originally posted by Synns77
    The combat is ok, nothing great but not terrible either I personally prefer this style of combat to action type combat (tera), the real big complaint though at the minute is the lag issues, get a warning that an attack is coming, move totally out the way and still get hit. Not sure if this is because of the servers being so far from the Uk or whether its just bad design.

    I was beginning to think I was the only one that was finding that frustrating. People where up in arms with SWTOR for far less, WAR too I seem to remember. Seemd that FFXIV has been given a pass for now. One thing WoW gets right (maybe over time) is crispy combat. GW2's animation blending is pretty well done too (though if you don't like the actiony style that might pass you by).

     

    This is a serious problem for me too - supposedly move far out of the way, and still get hit.  The hit system is very sloppy, and seems to be plagued with lag problems.

    Other than that, it's a very bland combat system, pretty much the same MMO combat we've seen for a decade.

    What I've noticed is that it's almost never lag, it's just that the attack registers a connect before the animation starts, not when visually it would make since for the attack to hit.  If your in the red area before it dissappears, then even if you're way out of the way before he attack connects visually then it is still going to hit you. That's what I've noticed anyways.

     

    I've been hit a lot of times even after getting out of the red before it disappears.  It happens pretty frequently, actually.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • NBlitzNBlitz ZwollePosts: 1,904Member

    I realized how much I had outgrown FFXIV style of combat when I tanked a couple of instances. Tab targeting multiple mobs was a p.i.t.a.

    I saw the fights like a Simon Says type of thing. More so than other games I've played. Reminded me of WoW. I read about people failing at these? *shakes head* :-( 

     

    For people who absolutely hate the direction the genre is going in...well, there's FFXIV :-)

    A blast from the past (10 years).

     

    There's something for everybody. 

  • VoqarVoqar Phoenix, AZPosts: 498Member
    Originally posted by funcon
    this Final Fantasy game has combat like WoW. Almost 10 year old combat in 2013.

    10 year old combat?  It's not something that has a date or is dated.  Tab target combat is a style.  It's not something that's going to go away.

     

    Action combat is another style.

     

    Which is "better" or "worse" is purely a matter of opinion or personal taste.

     

    I like both systems.  They both have goods and bads.

     

    FFXIV has some of the "move out of the blatant ae/telegraph" that you find in action style systems.

     

    I don't particularly like the 2.5s global cooldown in FFXIV but other than that the system is typical and works fine and the classes are interesting enough within the system.  1.5s GCD always felt too long to me so 2.5s is an eternity.

     

    I thought combat in TSW was well done for that game and TSW is a grossly underrated game.  Releasing against GW2 hurt since GW2 was massively hyped (and grossly overrated) and failing to expand endgame content quickly after release (and instead adding yet more solo idiot mode content) was and is kind of dumb.  Solo content that takes 2 months to develop and 2 hours for players to obliterate doesn't keep people around.  Funcom never seems to get things quite right.

     

     

    Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by Regnor

    It comes down to this. If you like mashing buttons fast and being able to change tactics instantly in real time without thinking then you will be disappointed. If on the other hand you like to have time to make tactical choices based on visual cues on the screen and like turn based strategy gaming, you will love this combat compared to the "action combat" trending everywhere else.

    FFXIV has lots of faults, but the combat system is not one of them imo.

    Imo the combat system and the cutscenes are its 2 biggest faults, Its not strategic its just slow and cumbersome. Unless you mean strategic as hit an ability, have a drink, hit an ability, take a bite of sandwich.

  • AlamarethAlamareth Cincinnati, OHPosts: 570Member
    Originally posted by Yizle
    Originally posted by Regnor

    It comes down to this. If you like mashing buttons fast and being able to change tactics instantly in real time without thinking then you will be disappointed. If on the other hand you like to have time to make tactical choices based on visual cues on the screen and like turn based strategy gaming, you will love this combat compared to the "action combat" trending everywhere else.

    FFXIV has lots of faults, but the combat system is not one of them imo.

    Imo the combat system and the cutscenes are its 2 biggest faults, Its not strategic its just slow and cumbersome. Unless you mean strategic as hit an ability, have a drink, hit an ability, take a bite of sandwich.

    You'll never pass level 40 doing that.  You'll be harassed out of the game if by some miracle you hit level 50.

    Unless of course you have 4 arms.

  • BhobBhob San Mateo, CAPosts: 125Member

    Stupid question, but are there skillchains like in FFXI?  It was pretty fun pulling them off as a team, and I can see how slower combat would benefit timing.   

    So far in the first 2 dungeons, there has not been too much coordination going on.

  • AoriAori Carbondale, ILPosts: 1,886Member Uncommon

    The combat isn't bad, its just more a preference.

    There is an issue with targeting though, clicking and tab both are a pita.

  • JayFiveAliveJayFiveAlive Arvada, COPosts: 534Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bhob

    Stupid question, but are there skillchains like in FFXI?  It was pretty fun pulling them off as a team, and I can see how slower combat would benefit timing.   

    So far in the first 2 dungeons, there has not been too much coordination going on.

    There are no multi-people skill chains yet. Maybe they will add that down the road though. Dungeons past like 20ish get a bit more coordinated and even more 35+ If you don't have coordination or know what is going on, you will die a lot.

  • BhobBhob San Mateo, CAPosts: 125Member
    Originally posted by JayFiveAlive
    Originally posted by Bhob

    Stupid question, but are there skillchains like in FFXI?  It was pretty fun pulling them off as a team, and I can see how slower combat would benefit timing.   

    So far in the first 2 dungeons, there has not been too much coordination going on.

    There are no multi-people skill chains yet. Maybe they will add that down the road though. Dungeons past like 20ish get a bit more coordinated and even more 35+ If you don't have coordination or know what is going on, you will die a lot.

    I figured as much, but I will miss the skillchains sorta.

  • niceguy3978niceguy3978 Gainesville, FLPosts: 2,000Member
    Originally posted by Sk1ppeR

    Only a noob would say that action combat is boring. It's more of a what you make of it. WoW combat had its time. It is time to let go and move on. WoW was made in a time where broadband connection was a luxury and we all were happy with our 32kb/sec download speeds and considered them ultra fast (of course, compared to the 56k dial-ups), WoW IS playable with such a connection, but for that to happen the game has to be a lot less dynamic. 

     

    Fast-forward 10 years from that time, and you have 10mbit broadband all over the place including 3G and LTE with super high speed and efficiency. A game like Gw2 puts the standard of new generation MMOs. A game like Planetside and Defiance do as well in their respective genres. Being able to move and hit is not about realism and how "you can not make a strong punch without leg assistance", it's about dynamics and player skill to burst out DPS AND avoid enemy frontal attacks. In modern day action combat MMOs skill actually matters. Not your passive evasion statistics. Not your hit rate on paper, but your own player skill, to get close enough to DPS, without taking damage back or if impossible at least avoid the enemy's more powerful burst. 

     

    This, what I just said, opens the door for horizontal progression which, well, most of us enjoy (griefers that like to gank on players 30 levels below them and few item tiers below them aside). No need for gear treadmill needed, just a will to improve your own skill and coordination. Such things like "IMBA" "WTFHAX" "OP" classes are things of the past. If you are good, you should be able to tackle your opponent, without playing the FOTM class for a given game. 

     

    So yeah back on topic. To hell with global cooldowns and launch issues for weeks now. FFXIV does not deserve my money. I'll pass. Even though I dislike WoW (for multiple reasons), if given the choice, I'd pick WoW instead of FFXIV anyday

    Action combat also existed before wow, so I guess its time to move on from that too.

  • Hitman211Hitman211 bannedville, IDPosts: 52Member

    Combat is a bit slow in the beginning.  The 2.5 sec GCD does take getting use to.

    Once you get a bit higher up in level, you have enough insta casts off the GCD and positioning ect to keep yourself busy enough to not notice the 2.5 secs being longer than most games.

    Luckily this isn't like a lot of action combat games where you can do well spamming one or two skills with one or two situation skills.

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/79042-Dragoons-A-Rotation-Reborn

    Here is a link to Dragoon combat.  Notice its anything but simple (dragoon is often considered a very novice friendly class too)

    You have to postion yourself, which I know people laugh at as being not a big deal...but bosses move a lot, some turn around and attack behind, its not that simple basically.

    So while the GCD on your combo and core skills might be 2.5 seconds...you are never sitting there waiting for GCD.  Ignoring the somewhat complicated aspects of you class works leveling up, will quickly get you marked as a bad player in endgame.  You see a lot of this happening now as people who grinded fates are at endgame and now have to do dungeons to get gear for hard modes.

     

    Its easy to harp on combat for being slow and relating it to bad combat, with this game, its not an issue. Yes you will notice it for your first 20 levels or so before you get all your combos and mechanics... Also whoever said that the longer GCD makes mistakes harder to correct is very accurate in stating this.  I don't have to wait 0.5-1seconds to click on the skill I needed...I need to wait 2-2.5 seconds...by then the skill may not be useful to use and people do notice when your stun doesn't go off and an aoe hits people...or the adds break agro with the tank because the wrong skill was used...or the tank dies due to a wrong heal being cast.

    Longer GCD is more unforgiving in this sense, which is why people say it makes the game more complicated...agreed there is no time in the game where you have time to sit there, scratch your head, and think of the best skill to use...2.5seconds isn't that long...just long enough to make you regret the wrong skill choice.

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