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[Column] General: The Return of Subs: FFXIV, WildStar, and ESO

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Comments

  • LissylLissyl Peru, INPosts: 271Member Common
    Originally posted by RelGn

    Im on the pc side of players but

    The console guys from whom they expect to get extra cash have to pay 60$ per month to play online(xbox live/psngold) plus 180 per month for the game plus 50-60 $ for the game box.

    So it's 290-300 $.

    Sorry it's not going to happen and it wont last long.

     

    First...did you mean per year?  I think you did.

    Second...if they're guaranteed to not want to pay more, and there are plenty of f2p players on PC alone, then why would any publisher want to go out of their way to further populate their servers with guaranteed non-sales?  Your argument doesn't make a case against subs, it makes a case against including console players -at all-.  Now, I don't see console players that way...but that -is- what you're arguing.

     
  • doodphacedoodphace Vancouver, BCPosts: 1,815Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Eir_S
    Originally posted by psiic

    Thank GOD! 

    I am so sick of these F2P gamers and their I have nothing risked or invested so I have nothing to lose attitude. 

    99% of F2P gamers  are just a totally and completely negative force on gaming communities.

    They lie, cheat, steal, exploit, gold spam, and go out of their way to be a destructive influence on anything positive.

    There are enough RUINED F2P games out there for them that they can stay with those games and keep making those communities miserable. 

    I guess now isn't the time to tell you how many of every type of person you listed I met in WoW and other sub games, huh?  Probably not.

    Your point is really, really shaky at best, crumbling on itself at worst.

    But hey, nice generalization that attacks a fair amount of legitimate players who just want to have fun.  The irony is you not seeing how negative you're being.

    At least I'm not the only person who sees the irony in that post.  I wonder when I see these sorts of posts if these people really think they so much better than everyone else.  How can people who spew such hate claim the moral high ground?

    Nothing keeps retards out of game, even if the sub was 1000$ a month, you would still have retards.

    With that said, if the game in question had content that required a lenthly coordinated effort to conquer, its a huge asset to have the same group of people working on the progression together. Having players hop in and hop out on a whim kind of goes agaisnt that "guild spirit" MMOs should be creating. Half the fun I used to have in WoW was seeing my guild's name as number 3 on our server on wowprogress.

    Which goes back to the point of if the endgame content is there (not saying it has to be raids, im just using tha as an example), people will pay for the sub.

  • DrakephireDrakephire Fontana, CAPosts: 445Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psiic
    Originally posted by kaz350

    Let me break it down another way.

    10 people play a P2P MMO, they all pay $15 = $150.

    10 people play a F2P MMO, 7 of them never spend anything 3 of them end up paying $50 each.  = $150

     

    You simply CANT have all 10 people pay $0....then there wouldnt be a game.

     

    Either way, the bills MUST BE PAID. For those 7 people, sounds like a great deal why wouldnt it !!! For the other 3 they pay way more than $15.

    This is why we support P2P.  $15 for EVERYTHING....or $50 for a COUPLE cash shop items....

    Its a no brainer. 

     

     

     

    I have said this since the F2P model first came about. 

     

    What I totally hate about F2P is that it mirrors real life.

     

    Those of us that have a job, work hard, and provide for ourselves, are having to pay more than out fair share so that a bunch of rude ungrateful arrogant entitled generation can have a quality product for free. 

    You want a new quality game then pay your own damn way, Im sick of paying for you.

    That analysis is wrong as I've pointed out in another post.  As for your rage, it's borderline paranoia. A subscription game is no more likely to have 'hard working' players than a f2p game.  Sub games could easily have those on disability who may not be able to work, or trust fund babies, or unemployed.

    What I'm tired of is my subscription dollars subsidizing your 40+ hour a week game addiction when I myself only play 2 to 3 hours per week. 

  • IceAgeIceAge SomeWhere In ..Posts: 1,013Member Common
    To all the haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB1D9wWxd2w ( you know what word to replace )

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by IceAge
    To all the haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB1D9wWxd2w ( you know what word to replace )

    I like this one better

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIPS4LyveJs

  • IceAgeIceAge SomeWhere In ..Posts: 1,013Member Common
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by IceAge
    To all the haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB1D9wWxd2w ( you know what word to replace )

    I like this one better

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIPS4LyveJs

    Nice one! But I still don't like you because you are against CREED ... 

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • BrooksTechBrooksTech Canton, ILPosts: 163Member
    Happy to pay a sub fee for a good game.
  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Beaumont, CAPosts: 1,518Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BrooksTech
    Happy to pay a sub fee for a good game.

    I am happy to pay a sub fee for a good game too.

    there just arent any, ESO, Wildstar will join the list of SWTor, Tera, and RIFT, nice try but next.

    RIFT offers more than all of these games combined features, and its free, and I dont have to pay for anything if I dont want, but hey I just bought 50$ of cash store currency to support RIFT's system, I like it.

    I have been playing since f2p so about same as if I subbed, but when I sub, I feel like I have to play, now I play when I want to play.

    I will likely spend the same amount anyways, and a smart buyer can double up on purchases when they have deals

     

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by IceAge
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by IceAge
    To all the haters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB1D9wWxd2w ( you know what word to replace )

    I like this one better

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIPS4LyveJs

    Nice one! But I still don't like you because you are against CREED ... 

    OK, here's a compromise.

    If in the 1st month or 2, Credd does not have a negative impact on the game's economy, and that CREDD is truly being used to subsidize time and not just a lame excuse for NCSoft to legitimize gold selling, I will retract what I said about it.

    (But in every game I have played, this has not happened)

    I'll be open minded. Otherwise, I'd be interested in a SciFi MMO.

  • takevatakeva Silver Spring, MDPosts: 1Member Uncommon
    YESSSS! So tired of F2P and some of the most annoying people that come with it. I do like the idea of cash shops but only if it's cosmetics.
  • HarikenHariken Brighton, MAPosts: 985Member Uncommon
    Even though i have no interest in this game, i think this is great news for the mmo industry as a whole. Free to play models are the ruin of games in the long run. The communities in those F2P games are the worse. They are filled with the lowest kinds of people on the internet. 
  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by kaz350
    Originally posted by Myrdynn
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    I'm happy to see all these games going P2P.  I can't stand F2P.  I played them for about a year, but finally got fed up with all the nickel and diming.  I'm P2P for life!  I liked Rift, but left as soon as it went F2P.   I just don't like the problems tha come with a F2P game.

    so narrowminded, that is the problem with p2p people, which I was for years, until RIFT went free2play.  Their model is flawless, and it doesnt have any problems what so ever with f2p

    2 of these 3 games will be f2p within a yr of launch, FF14 has a loyal base, but it should be f2p as well, but they will keep it p2p.  ESO and Wildstar especially will be hurting for players, 3-6 months after launch.  Wildstar, wouldnt surpise me to see f2p within 6 months, its player base isnt gonna be that good, after the "free" 60$ month.

     

    Ironic you use the world "narrowminded"  Rift's model is NOT flawless....is there anything ...ANYTHING in the Cash Shop, Cash Shop only? Yes including so called "useless" vanity items like dyes, flavor armor etc?

     

    Yes? Then its not flawless....I want the ENTIRE game for one low monthly fee. All the game...ALL the vanity items...everything !

    This. The only way I can accept "vanity items" in the item mall is if the game has no focus on aesthetics. FFXIV has a such focus, so it is unacceptable for them to have such "vanity items" in item mall.

  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon

    Can not stress enough how much I hate so called "free play" because there is NONE, at least not on this world. But have contributed imo significantly to doom of good mmo games that have gone or free or closed.

    Only pretty decen exception is Gw2, but that is not free it is P2P. But still only P2P worth buying. Imo of course. :-))

  • squalleonahasqualleonaha miss, ONPosts: 211Member

    i would give wildstar 1 year to go F2P

    as for FF14 AAR. consider FF11 still alive, i dont think square will make FF14 F2P soon, it could take them....2-3 years or never and let the game die.

    ESO is more like Star war for me. could be 1-2 years.

    so wildstar will go first and then EOS and then FF14 to F2P road. ^__^

  • STYNKFYSTSTYNKFYST Sacramento, CAPosts: 290Member

    What "return of subs"? When was there not a period of time when MMOs didn't have subs? GW2 is the same as GW1...no sub. But it isn't part of the F2P model either. What other AAA MMO has been F2P from the start? I'm sure you can think of one, but not enough to act like it's weird to see subs on new MMOs. The last couple of years they talk going F2P, but that's the talk. How has it gone from that to "OMG...SUBS?!?!"

    Just don't get it

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member

    So just because we had a few MMO releases as F2P all of a sudden it must be the return of subs when business goes back to usual?

    The return of subs will happen when games can MAINTAIN a sub business model 6 month-1 yr post launch.  And don't even factor in FFXIV as it's fanbase in Japan alone will keep it going and Yoshi says he'll shut the game down first.

  • svannsvann san jose, CAPosts: 1,639Member Uncommon
    The fact that SWTOR had a sub was NOT why I didnt like it.
  • YizleYizle Atlanta, GAPosts: 517Member
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    I'm happy to see all these games going P2P.  I can't stand F2P.  I played them for about a year, but finally got fed up with all the nickel and diming.  I'm P2P for life!  I liked Rift, but left as soon as it went F2P.   I just don't like the problems tha come with a F2P game.

    This is a post from the minions of P2P who are too naïve/ignorant to be open for change. I was an old Rift player and I went back to it when it went F2P. I already had SL so I had the extra souls guess how much they have nickel and dimed me for? Nothing. I have spent anything. I even got another 30 days free from the credits they gave me for my past sub.

  • jethro1970jethro1970 North Little Rock, ARPosts: 1Member

    I never bothered to register here in order to post until now.  I just lurched and read.  But this is an interesting topic.

     

    Maybe my perspective is different than many here, maybe not.  I'm an older gamer; cut my teeth on EQ.  I have tried a lot of games out there.  I will say this: I will gladly pay a sub for a game that I connect with.  There is no (current) game on the market that is not a sub game that I would even entertain.  That isn't to say the sub games are all that different.  They're decidedly not.

     

    I'm not a teenager paying with parents' credit card.  I'm not a twenty-something who has to choose between extra goodies on the weekly shopping trip or a another month of gaming.  I have a disposable amount of income that I chuck out for entertainment, and I'm perfectly willing to part with it, but it has to appeal to me.  I am picky, because I can be.  That is the demographic that I think today's companies are missing.  EQ thrived when there was no broadband.  Playing EQ took a major investment of one's disposable income.  SOE had a number of subscribers that probably overshadows many of today's offerings in our current world of cheaper broadband and PCs.

     

    If a company wants to cash in and nickel and dime for mounts, gears, etc. then that is fine.  But they won't win over my demographic.  Make a game that has the vastness of EQ, the housing of EQ2, the ease of learning as WoW... find a way to police the botters, griefers, gold sellers, etc.  Entertain enough people to give me a thriving world full of others to socialize with... and I will hand over my money as long as you entertain me.  Capitalism at its best.  Make me something I want, and I will give you my money.  Heck, I'll even sub for $20, or $25.  That's still cheaper than a movie for two with refreshments.  But, you can't microwave me a frozen meal, serve it, and call it cuisine.  The problem is: nobody is doing anything truly creative.  They keep re-making [name your game here: WoW, EQ, etc.] and trying to resale it.  No thanks.  I'll keep my money and just go to an extra movie this month.  I'm waiting for something that isn't a remake.  I will give that company my money, monthly, when it's made. 

     

    Bottom line is: I think the industry is stale.  Same-ole, same-ole.  4-7 big names chasing after crumbs on remakes and rehashes, making pennies on dime-store sales of cash shop items.  The company that decides to be fresh and innovative, and realizes that not everybody wants the cheapest, but instead wants simply better--that company will be the next Blizzard.

     

    My two cents.

  • Hei_AtzfelHei_Atzfel New Castle, INPosts: 4Member
    Originally posted by Gravarg
    I'm happy to see all these games going P2P.  I can't stand F2P.  I played them for about a year, but finally got fed up with all the nickel and diming.  I'm P2P for life!  I liked Rift, but left as soon as it went F2P.   I just don't like the problems tha come with a F2P game.

    So you're perfectly acceptable to having your money stolen? Because that's basically what a subscription model does. You play a flat rate to buy the game, but then you have to shovel out fifteen dollars a month just to buy the rights to play the game you already purchased. It's nothing but robbery. I played BF3 for a few months short of two years, cost me $60 to buy the game on pre-order and $50 to buy Premium when it came out, that's $110 and you can be sure that DICE got more than enough money off of me to make pure profit. Now think about if BF3 were a sub based MMO; for the same price that I spent on that game and played for nearly two years, I would've only been able to play a sub based MMO for a few months.

    It just baffles me that people to this day still find it acceptable to pay a monthly fee for the rights to use something that they have already purchased. That would be like me buying a brand new computer for $1,200 and then paying $30 each month otherwise the company I bought it from would deactivate my computer and not let me use it until I paid them another thirty bucks. It's absurd.

  • Cliff1963Cliff1963 IJsselsteinPosts: 60Member
    Originally posted by Eddie_Stiletto

    Of the new "big" sub games coming soon, I see it going down like this:

    FFXIV- Will survive but not thrive. Will carve out a little niche for itself and eventually settle in at around 100k subscribers.

    WS- This I see really taking off. Its the first sub game since WoW to have pleasing graphics and a sense of humor. I think it actually could hold 1mil+ subscribers.

    ESO- Ring ring. Here comes the fail mobile. Hate to say it but this is TOR 2.0. Start off with huge box sales and then watch the subs plummet.

     

     

     

    It's always funny to see there are people who can predict the future from their own biased point of view.

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