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Why waste time with useless loot?

Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
Shouldn't by now all loot be useful in someway to use at least for crafting? Why waste resources making loot that we can never use? Or is it just to help sell bag slots?
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Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,678Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
    Shouldn't by now all loot be useful in someway to use at least for crafting? Why waste resources making loot that we can never use? Or is it just to help sell bag slots?

    Thank Everquest for introducing that crap to MMOs. In previous MMOs, and several between EQ and WOW, all loot served at least some kind of purpose.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • mrputtsmrputts Beaver, PAPosts: 197Member
    You raise a good point. If they want less crafting items dropped just make the loots empty or with just money, and cut out the Grey items.

    Ea is like a poo fingered midas ~ShakyMo

  • VrikaVrika FinlandPosts: 2,595Member Uncommon

    When I get useless loot, I like to think it as ingredients needed by some NPC crafters. It's much more immersive than every enemy dropping only gold.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,678Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vrika

    When I get useless loot, I like to think it as ingredients needed by some NPC crafters. It's much more immersive than every enemy dropping only gold.

    Very true, but there's also another path - simply make it all useful.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member

    ive always assumed it was there to force people back to towns to sell crap .. in essence, it's a time sink. Not saying that I see that as a good or necessary thing, but .. it does have a "purpose" ... just maybe not a very good one.

    id have to do some math, but I think, this useless loot sells for more gold than the NPC that dropped it .. drops? So it's a choice. Fill your bags with more stuff and sell, or kill more and let it rot, for the same yield.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,678Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by azmundai

    ive always assumed it was there to force people back to towns to sell crap .. in essence, it's a time sink. Not saying that I see that as a good or necessary thing, but .. it does have a "purpose" ... just maybe not a very good one.

    The same could be done with usable loot.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • azmundaiazmundai St Louis, MOPosts: 1,417Member


    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by azmundai ive always assumed it was there to force people back to towns to sell crap .. in essence, it's a time sink. Not saying that I see that as a good or necessary thing, but .. it does have a "purpose" ... just maybe not a very good one.
    The same could be done with usable loot.

    useable loot might make it worse as you would want to either goto the bank, or the AH to sell / store it instead of an outpost nearby.

    LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
    I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  • VrikaVrika FinlandPosts: 2,595Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Vrika

    When I get useless loot, I like to think it as ingredients needed by some NPC crafters. It's much more immersive than every enemy dropping only gold.

    Very true, but there's also another path - simply make it all useful.

    If it's all usable, then there's easily way too many items needed for crafting. I think devs should do crafting materials based on how many different items they think should be needed for crafting, not based on how many different items they want mobs to drop.

  • BoneserinoBoneserino London, ONPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vrika
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Vrika

    When I get useless loot, I like to think it as ingredients needed by some NPC crafters. It's much more immersive than every enemy dropping only gold.

    Very true, but there's also another path - simply make it all useful.

    If it's all usable, then there's easily way too many items needed for crafting. I think devs should do crafting materials based on how many different items they think should be needed for crafting, not based on how many different items they want mobs to drop.

    Precisely why I love Fallen Earth!!  No stupid gear drops!!  90% of the items dropped are used for crafting, and everything used in game is created by crafting.

     

    Nuff said!

    FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  • AinesAines Montreal, QCPosts: 45Member Uncommon

    I have always considering these items as gold. Basically instead of dropping gold, they drop these items that you can sell later. I would not want to change that. Maybe it is just me, but if everything that any mob dropped would be useful for something...meaning, all items would be useful for something, it would feel wrong. I want this junk in my inventory :P

     

    image
  • MorrokMorrok MunichPosts: 130Member


    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
    Why waste resources making loot that we can never use?

    My preciouuusss...



    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Thank Everquest for introducing that crap to MMOs. In previous MMOs, and several between EQ and WOW, all loot served at least some kind of purpose.

    I think there's some... misconception involved in this statement.
    In EQ you have 4types of loot, basically:
    1) equipment, like in any MMO, immediately wearable
    2) Tradeskill items
    3) Quest items
    4) vendor trash.

    So from my point of view, all loot *DOES* have a purpose.
    If you can actually name an item that doesn't fall into one or more of the above categories, it's usually safe to assume that it once belonged to a (now-removed) quest or some storyline/quest that didn't become implemented properly.
    At any rate, if they still exist (i think i saw a few entries in Alla stating "no use" and no selling price in my days, but when last i checked at least those i came across had a vendor-value assigned to them), they're not numerous enough to be worth mentioning.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,678Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vrika
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Vrika

    When I get useless loot, I like to think it as ingredients needed by some NPC crafters. It's much more immersive than every enemy dropping only gold.

    Very true, but there's also another path - simply make it all useful.

    If it's all usable, then there's easily way too many items needed for crafting. I think devs should do crafting materials based on how many different items they think should be needed for crafting, not based on how many different items they want mobs to drop.

    Refining, salvaging, smelting. These have been around for over a decade in MMOs. No one is talking about making each [quality|mob|viscera] a separate crafting component.

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,786Member Uncommon
    I agree.  No more useless loot.  Most mobs should drop nothing at all, and only grant experience for killing them.
  • GrahorGrahor aaaPosts: 828Member

    All that abundance of loot serves 2 reasons: time sink for selling stuff and immersion for players - I've read some research that people much more prefer things diverse and different "falling" out of their enemies, rather than just plain coins; somehow it makes it a lot more exciting.

     

    As an illustration, my own experience support it: I too actually am more interested in each and every drop if it consists of some kind of items relevant to the enemy and the situation, rather than just coins.

     

    The solution, in my opinion, is to make all that unholy amount of loot "processable" into raw materials for crafters - say, grey weapons will give you metals/crafting thingies, animals - leathers, hides, bone, materials, etc. 

     

    The most obvious example of such behavior is EvE. Man, there is a HUGE industry, whole gigantic, galaxy-wide economy with thousands of players working on buying the random loot from players fighting npcs, reprocessing it (whole array of skills and equipment, including player-build outposts, influencing the efficiency of reprocessing), moving resulting raw materials to factories and building things out of it.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,678Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Morrok

    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Thank Everquest for introducing that crap to MMOs. In previous MMOs, and several between EQ and WOW, all loot served at least some kind of purpose.


    I think there's some... misconception involved in this statement.
    In EQ you have 4types of loot, basically:
    1) equipment, like in any MMO, immediately wearable
    2) Tradeskill items
    3) Quest items
    4) vendor trash.

     

    So from my point of view, all loot *DOES* have a purpose.
     

    Vendor trash was introduced to MMOs in EQ. It's a carryover from DikuMUD. It is the useless loot that the OP is talking about.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • HolophonistHolophonist Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 2,086Member Uncommon
    My preference would be a salvaging system so you can break things down to get resources. Also, certain mob types should drop certain things. That way you have a reason to go kill certain mobs, no matter where they are. That should help cut back on the "themepark" feeling you get from a lot of MMO's where you go from zone to zone, never to return.
  • MorrokMorrok MunichPosts: 130Member

    But vendor trash is all BUT useless.

    As was said above, it's another form of gold/plat that drops off mobs.
    And as such QUITE useful!

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,678Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Holophonist
    My preference would be a salvaging system so you can break things down to get resources. Also, certain mob types should drop certain things. That way you have a reason to go kill certain mobs, no matter where they are. That should help cut back on the "themepark" feeling you get from a lot of MMO's where you go from zone to zone, never to return.

    Agreed.

    Junk loot is a convenient way to pad out and adjust loot tables without having to worry much about balance. It's also a great way (for the devs) to manipulate available bag space and regulate player travel with minimal player awareness.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Posts: 14,786Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Morrok

    But vendor trash is all BUT useless.

    As was said above, it's another form of gold/plat that drops off mobs.
    And as such QUITE useful!

    If the goal is to give players gold, then why not give players gold?  Why give players some random weapon or piece of armor that no one would ever plausibly equip, so there was never any market demand for some NPC to craft the item in the first place?

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,678Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Morrok

    But vendor trash is all BUT useless.

    As was said above, it's another form of gold/plat that drops off mobs.
    And as such QUITE useful!

     

    It's rather interesting to see how WOW'd MMO gamers have become, that the majority in this thread can only see this in a binary manner - the presence or absence of junk loot - unaware that the same goals can be reached with loot that actually serves a purpose in the context of the game. Don't buy into the diseased rat's liver franchise. It's a sinister plot! :)

     

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXPosts: 956Member Uncommon

    Vendor Trash (VT) is there as part of the overall balance of the game.  When you don't make use of VT you are throwing off the multiple tiers of game balance. 

    1. Game Economy : as part of the anti-gold farming, anti-botting campaign VT is introduced to ensure that the economy flows at a rate to support the character with out having to resort to either buying gold or farming items.  The dumbing down of game is in direct result to gamers not taking full advantage of the economic tools provided by the Devs.
    2. Player Distribution & Network Stability : Devs plan for a near uniform distribution of players across their server architecture.  When this doesn't happen due to player divergent play style, we see Network failure as a result. 
    3. Breakfast :  I was going to write more, but it seems everyone here is waiting on me so we can go out to breakfast.  And football isn't going to watch itself.
     
    If something is put in a game it serves a purpose.  Just because you can't or won't realize that is not the fault of the game.  It is yours.  Don't blame casual gamers for the faults with modern MMOs.  Re-read your posts, all of them and realize that you are the fault for everything you don't like in MMO.  When I complain that all gamers want in a game is exploits, I am not being mean or trolling.  I'm being accurate.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,678Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Konfess

    Vendor Trash (VT) is there as part of the overall balance of the game.  When you don't make use of VT you are throwing off the multiple tiers of game balance. 

    1. Game Economy : as part of the anti-gold farming, anti-botting campaign VT is introduced to ensure that the economy flows at a rate to support the character with out having to resort to either buying gold or farming items.  The dumbing down of game is in direct result to gamers not taking full advantage of the economic tools provided by the Devs.
    2. Player Distribution & Network Stability : Devs plan for a near uniform distribution of players across their server architecture.  When this doesn't happen due to player divergent play style, we see Network failure as a result. 
    3. Breakfast :  I was going to write more, but it seems everyone here is waiting on me so we can go out to breakfast.  And football isn't going to watch itself.
     
    If something is put in a game it serves a purpose.  Just because you can't or won't realize that is not the fault of the game.  It is yours.  Don't blame casual gamers for the faults with modern MMOs.  Re-read your posts, all of them and realize that you are the fault for everything you don't like in MMO.  When I complain that all gamers want in a game is exploits, I am not being mean or trolling.  I'm being accurate.

    No one is saying it doesn't serve a design purpose or that they don't understand why devs created it. The OP presents the case that it is currently serves no use to the player other than just, well.. junk to sell.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • AinesAines Montreal, QCPosts: 45Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Morrok

    But vendor trash is all BUT useless.

    As was said above, it's another form of gold/plat that drops off mobs.
    And as such QUITE useful!

     

    It's rather interesting to see how WOW'd MMO gamers have become, that the majority in this thread can only see this in a binary manner - the presence or absence of junk loot - unaware that the same goals can be reached with loot that actually serves a purpose in the context of the game. Don't buy into the diseased rat's liver franchise. It's a sinister plot! :)

     

    I think that the topic of the thread changed a bit. OP considers that some dropped items are useless. This is not how all of us view them.

    image
  • HedeonHedeon GraestedPosts: 954Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Morrok

    But vendor trash is all BUT useless.

    As was said above, it's another form of gold/plat that drops off mobs.
    And as such QUITE useful!

     

    It's rather interesting to see how WOW'd MMO gamers have become, that the majority in this thread can only see this in a binary manner - the presence or absence of junk loot - unaware that the same goals can be reached with loot that actually serves a purpose in the context of the game. Don't buy into the diseased rat's liver franchise. It's a sinister plot! :)

     

    would love if the NPCs actually would make comments like this in games, oh god no, no more of those livers, cant you just grind them and make a paté or something! ><

    anyway trash loot is just there to give people a feeling that they gain something from killing stuff - some gold added to your account which you hardly notice doesnt really give this feeling, and ofc to waste peoples time...

  • MorrokMorrok MunichPosts: 130Member


    Originally posted by Quizzical
    If the goal is to give players gold, then why not give players gold?

    As was also said above: immersion.
    It doesn't make much sense that a rat carries gold pieces around, but it makes some sense that a NPC would be willing to pay for the rat's whiskers or tails, if only as a proof of extermination.
    (Think of the skalping practice in the wild west, or the cutting off ears)

    Same for a goblin (or other mobs):
    Such a creature might carry some equipment that is crude to you, and perhaps have a different monetary/barter system (think salt or sea shells or stones that were used for currency in some parts of the world, but being totally useless to the conquistadores).
    But the goblin's beads might be worth something for someone.

    I mean, why did euopeans in the 19th century pay big money for mummies only to unwrap them at a party?
    Think that the egyptian grave robber much cared WHY got his money instead that he simply cared THAT he got it?

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